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Stability is key

R

Rush4

Freshman
Nov 26, 2015
80
93
0
Hobbs, Ash & Coaching Staff stability is both key and critical and very few really understand that. Other teams have fired or will be firing their HC's and their recruits will be looking around to other schools and their are transfers like Singleton looking to move on. Those other teams are in disarray with a HC vacancy or a new HC with no relationship with their current recruits.

Through stability and past & current relationships with other players & prospective HS recruits, Ash & Staff have an opportunity to identify those transfers & HS recruits and go after them in a strong and aggressive way.

Ash & Staff are going to turn this around but very few are really willing to go thru the pain to get to the gain. Tom Landry with the Dallas Cowboys went 0-16 his first year. Chuck Knoll's record in his first few years with the Steelers was abysmal as well. These non-charismatic coaches installed their culture and tough times don't last but tough people do and the rest is history. Stick with these quality tough people and let the dumpster fires of change occur elsewhere....we've had enough of that. Once the hard tough work of building the foundation is complete, guess what.....the big beautiful house can go UP quickly and that's what everyone sees and says...what a big beautiful house.........but noone says what a beautiful foundation that is because they can't see it. But that house rests on that foundation!
 
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K

krup

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
70,133
10,066
0
Rush4 said:
Hobbs, Ash & Coaching Staff stability is both key and critical and very few really understand that. Other teams have fired or will be firing their HC's and their recruits will be looking around to other schools and their are transfers like Singleton looking to move on. Those other teams are in disarray with a HC vacancy or a new HC with no relationship with their current recruits.

Through stability and past & current relationships with other players & prospective HS recruits, Ash & Staff have an opportunity to identify those transfers & HS recruits and go after them in a strong and aggressive way.

Ash & Staff are going to turn this around but very few are really willing to go thru the pain to get to the gain. Tom Landry with the Dallas Cowboys went 0-16 his first year. Chuck Knoll's record in his first few years with the Steelers was abysmal as well. These non-charismatic coaches installed their culture and tough times don't last but tough people do and the rest is history. Stick with these quality tough people and let the dumpster fires of change occur elsewhere....we've had enough of that. Once the hard tough work of building the foundation is complete, guess what.....the big beautiful house can go UP quickly and that's what everyone sees and says...what a big beautiful house.........but noone says what a beautiful foundation that is because they can't see it. But that house rests on that foundation!
Click to expand...
You posted a lot of words that are rendered meaningless by this simple fact:

Recruiting class rankings
2017-43
2018-58
2019-68
 
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R

RU_DIO

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
16,891
17,122
113
Rush4 said:
Hobbs, Ash & Coaching Staff stability is both key and critical and very few really understand that. Other teams have fired or will be firing their HC's and their recruits will be looking around to other schools and their are transfers like Singleton looking to move on. Those other teams are in disarray with a HC vacancy or a new HC with no relationship with their current recruits.

Through stability and past & current relationships with other players & prospective HS recruits, Ash & Staff have an opportunity to identify those transfers & HS recruits and go after them in a strong and aggressive way.

Ash & Staff are going to turn this around but very few are really willing to go thru the pain to get to the gain. Tom Landry with the Dallas Cowboys went 0-16 his first year. Chuck Knoll's record in his first few years with the Steelers was abysmal as well. These non-charismatic coaches installed their culture and tough times don't last but tough people do and the rest is history. Stick with these quality tough people and let the dumpster fires of change occur elsewhere....we've had enough of that. Once the hard tough work of building the foundation is complete, guess what.....the big beautiful house can go UP quickly and that's what everyone sees and says...what a big beautiful house.........but noone says what a beautiful foundation that is because they can't see it. But that house rests on that foundation!
Click to expand...


Sorry, but....... LOL.
 
O

Ole Cabbagehead

All-American
Apr 21, 2011
8,075
6,323
0
krup said:
You posted a lot of words that are rendered meaningless by this simple fact:

Recruiting class rankings
2017-43
2018-58
2019-68
Click to expand...


2017 0 3 14 2.77
2018 0 0 16 2.73
2019 0 0 9 2.69 (class incomplete)

There is very little difference between 40-70 in recruiting. At all of those levels, how you develop the kids is far more important. Ash needs to recruit better, but his recruiting is not a disaster overall. What is far more of an issue is that his recruiting at QB (the most important position) has been a disaster, and his recruiting at WR (which should be a strength in NJ) has been really poor.

To the broader point, the same people that post the same things in every thread won't want to acknowledge it, but continuity does have substantial value. There is a reason successful organizations change coaches VERY infrequently. Part of that is that they make good hires, but part of that is trusting those hires when success is not linear.

The risk is obvious....wasted time, and further erosion of the brand. But in no way is cutting bait "early" ever an obvious or easy call. Would our offense be better today if Ash had hired a below average OC and stuck with him for 3 years? Almost definitely. That says something about Ash as well. That says something about Ash as well.
 
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R

Rush4

Freshman
Nov 26, 2015
80
93
0
Do you negative people think someone is going to come in here, wave a magic wand and turn things around in a second?
Who is that? I'd like to know.
 
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R

RU_DIO

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
16,891
17,122
113
Rush4 said:
Do you negative people think someone is going to come in here, wave a magic wand and turn things around in a second?
Who is that? I'd like to know.
Click to expand...


A good coach who is also a good recruiter. Keeping a crappy head coach for stability purposes means no one should ever fire their coach, no matter how bad his performance on the field and recruiting is
 
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Knight Shift

Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
88,626
86,624
113
Rush4 said:
Hobbs, Ash & Coaching Staff stability is both key and critical and very few really understand that. Other teams have fired or will be firing their HC's and their recruits will be looking around to other schools and their are transfers like Singleton looking to move on. Those other teams are in disarray with a HC vacancy or a new HC with no relationship with their current recruits.

Through stability and past & current relationships with other players & prospective HS recruits, Ash & Staff have an opportunity to identify those transfers & HS recruits and go after them in a strong and aggressive way.

Ash & Staff are going to turn this around but very few are really willing to go thru the pain to get to the gain. Tom Landry with the Dallas Cowboys went 0-16 his first year. Chuck Knoll's record in his first few years with the Steelers was abysmal as well. These non-charismatic coaches installed their culture and tough times don't last but tough people do and the rest is history. Stick with these quality tough people and let the dumpster fires of change occur elsewhere....we've had enough of that. Once the hard tough work of building the foundation is complete, guess what.....the big beautiful house can go UP quickly and that's what everyone sees and says...what a big beautiful house.........but noone says what a beautiful foundation that is because they can't see it. But that house rests on that foundation!
Click to expand...
You mentioned Tom Landry, and I had just watched this.
Interview gives some insight into him as a person.
I hope you are right, but recruiting has to improve really soon. We will not be able to ascend the mountain that is the B1G East with the current level of recruiting.
That's all I got.
 
M

MoobyCow

Heisman
Nov 28, 2001
26,944
26,363
0
Ole Cabbagehead said:
2017 0 3 14 2.77
2018 0 0 16 2.73
2019 0 0 9 2.69 (class incomplete)

There is very little difference between 40-70 in recruiting. At all of those levels, how you develop the kids is far more important. Ash needs to recruit better, but his recruiting is not a disaster overall. What is far more of an issue is that his recruiting at QB (the most important position) has been a disaster, and his recruiting at WR (which should be a strength in NJ) has been really poor.

To the broader point, the same people that post the same things in every thread won't want to acknowledge it, but continuity does have substantial value. There is a reason successful organizations change coaches VERY infrequently. Part of that is that they make good hires, but part of that is trusting those hires when success is not linear.

The risk is obvious....wasted time, and further erosion of the brand. But in no way is cutting bait "early" ever an obvious or easy call. Would our offense be better today if Ash had hired a below average OC and stuck with him for 3 years? Almost definitely.
Click to expand...

The issue being all the kids currently on the team are at those levels or better and we're 1-11, so recruiting at this level is a disaster if you coach at the level Ash has been coaching. You want to pitch stability and giving time for a plan to work, you have to be able to point to some indications that the plan is working.
 
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Knight Shift

Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
88,626
86,624
113
bitnez said:
We lost to Buffalo and Kansas in year 3. We already have a magician — Ash made the wins disappear.
Click to expand...
Greg lost to Buffanova in year 2, and regressed in year 4 from year 3, losing to New Hampshire. He got it done.
And his recruiting in 2004 and 2005 was nothing special.
https://rutgers.rivals.com/commitments/football/2004
Teel, Foster and Westerman were 2 star recruits.

2005 class was ranked #68:
https://rutgers.rivals.com/commitments/football/2005
Many of the high performers in the glory years were 2 stars.
 
T

T2Kplus10

Heisman
Feb 24, 2010
28,180
17,566
0
MoobyCow said:
The issue being all the kids currently on the team are at those levels or better and we're 1-11, so recruiting at this level is a disaster if you coach at the level Ash has been coaching. You want to pitch stability and giving time for a plan to work, you have to be able to point to some indications that the plan is working.
Click to expand...
Has any players gotten better under Ash? Where is the coaching? I have seen a lot of players regress.
 
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E

Extra Point_rivals157299

All-Conference
Aug 9, 2001
13,166
4,692
0
More importantly is stability of the game system. By the 3rd year players know it by heart, have a full understanding and can break out with their own tweeks. Rugers has 0 continuity. Year 1 was the spread, year 2 was a hybrid, run first offense year 3 was a pro set pass first offense. It changes every year with each OC. Plus the most important position, QB, has a different guy every year. Next year will be the first year that the system will be the same as the year before it.
 
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C

cicero grimes

All-American
Nov 23, 2015
8,359
8,886
0
Knoll and Landry could actually coach. Chris kinda paces befuddled up and down the sidelines.
 
LotusAggressor_rivals

LotusAggressor_rivals

All-American
Oct 11, 2003
16,090
7,865
113
Rush4 said:
Hobbs, Ash & Coaching Staff stability is both key and critical and very few really understand that. Other teams have fired or will be firing their HC's and their recruits will be looking around to other schools and their are transfers like Singleton looking to move on. Those other teams are in disarray with a HC vacancy or a new HC with no relationship with their current recruits.

Through stability and past & current relationships with other players & prospective HS recruits, Ash & Staff have an opportunity to identify those transfers & HS recruits and go after them in a strong and aggressive way.

Ash & Staff are going to turn this around but very few are really willing to go thru the pain to get to the gain. Tom Landry with the Dallas Cowboys went 0-16 his first year. Chuck Knoll's record in his first few years with the Steelers was abysmal as well. These non-charismatic coaches installed their culture and tough times don't last but tough people do and the rest is history. Stick with these quality tough people and let the dumpster fires of change occur elsewhere....we've had enough of that. Once the hard tough work of building the foundation is complete, guess what.....the big beautiful house can go UP quickly and that's what everyone sees and says...what a big beautiful house.........but noone says what a beautiful foundation that is because they can't see it. But that house rests on that foundation!
Click to expand...
Ash is not Landry or Noll. The winning cultures in Dallas and Pittsburgh were built with blue chip talent and superior player development. Have you seen any of that here? Of the last several QB saviors, one is no longer in the program, one is a TE, one is an interception machine, one is on the bench, and another one (or more) are probably in high school right now.
 
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Z

zappaa

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
74,996
91,784
103
Rush4 said:
Do you negative people think someone is going to come in here, wave a magic wand and turn things around in a second?
Who is that? I'd like to know.
Click to expand...
Someone who doesn’t call time outs after TV timeouts?
 
N

newwavedave1

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2006
3,982
3,521
0
Extra Point said:
More importantly is stability of the game system. By the 3rd year players know it by heart, have a full understanding and can break out with their own tweeks. Rugers has 0 continuity. Year 1 was the spread, year 2 was a hybrid, run first offense year 3 was a pro set pass first offense. It changes every year with each OC. Plus the most important position, QB, has a different guy every year. Next year will be the first year that the system will be the same as the year before it.
Click to expand...
Same system for two years should help a great deal. Remains to be seen if it does. Cautiously optimistic.
 
Y

Yeah Baby

All-American
Aug 14, 2001
19,261
6,466
0
Knight Shift said:
Greg lost to Buffanova in year 2, and regressed in year 4 from year 3, losing to New Hampshire. He got it done.
And his recruiting in 2004 and 2005 was nothing special.
https://rutgers.rivals.com/commitments/football/2004
Teel, Foster and Westerman were 2 star recruits.

2005 class was ranked #68:
https://rutgers.rivals.com/commitments/football/2005
Many of the high performers in the glory years were 2 stars.
Click to expand...
Why point out facts when it is easier to just ***** every day. Lol

I was very big on keeping Schiano around for stability. I am less concerned about it now but far from the “fire everyone” crowd on this board. The facts is these guys all bitched about Flood right up until a couple of months ago. Win now or *****. They are no good for the program.

The jury is out on Ash but I have no doubt about some of our so called fans. You guys suck ***.
 
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Z

zappaa

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
74,996
91,784
103
Yeah Baby said:
Why point out facts when it is easier to just ***** every day. Lol

I was very big on keeping Schiano around for stability. I am less concerned about it now but far from the “fire everyone” crowd on this board. The facts is these guys all bitched about Flood right up until a couple of months ago. Win now or *****. They are no good for the program.

The jury is out on Ash but I have no doubt about some of our so called fans. You guys suck ***.
Click to expand...
Always a great ending to all your posts...:D
Love em
 
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LotusAggressor_rivals

LotusAggressor_rivals

All-American
Oct 11, 2003
16,090
7,865
113
Knight Shift said:
Greg lost to Buffanova in year 2, and regressed in year 4 from year 3, losing to New Hampshire. He got it done.
And his recruiting in 2004 and 2005 was nothing special.
https://rutgers.rivals.com/commitments/football/2004
Teel, Foster and Westerman were 2 star recruits.

2005 class was ranked #68:
https://rutgers.rivals.com/commitments/football/2005
Many of the high performers in the glory years were 2 stars.
Click to expand...
Those teams had much better coaches. Players actually developed.
 
J

JQRU91

All-Conference
Apr 6, 2013
1,855
1,386
0
When Chuck Noll used to cut players from the Steelers, he'd tell them it was time to get on with their life's work. It's probably about that time for Ash now.
 
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F

fire251

Sophomore
Oct 6, 2012
200
180
0
Ash himself has been quoted saying....."we must improve the roster talent"

otherwise we coach up and develop 2-3 stars....... while other programs coach up and develop 3-4 stars..... and the elite programs coach up and develop 4-5 stars
 
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K

Knightmoves

Heisman
Jul 31, 2001
30,459
16,369
113
WhiteBus said:
Stability is essential for long term success. However, Chris Ash was not retained for stability purposes but because he is owed a lot of money and Rutgers is cheap.
Click to expand...

Like it or not that is the RU game plan. Don’t like it but I’ve now built that into my expectations.

Hypothetically if Ash is given 3 more years could he turn it around if he gets a good QB? My optimistic estimate is 50-50. But it goes much lower from there.
 
B

beaced_rivals

Heisman
Jul 18, 2004
32,005
10,324
0
Ole Cabbagehead said:
2017 0 3 14 2.77
2018 0 0 16 2.73
2019 0 0 9 2.69 (class incomplete)

There is very little difference between 40-70 in recruiting. At all of those levels, how you develop the kids is far more important. Ash needs to recruit better, but his recruiting is not a disaster overall. What is far more of an issue is that his recruiting at QB (the most important position) has been a disaster, and his recruiting at WR (which should be a strength in NJ) has been really poor.

To the broader point, the same people that post the same things in every thread won't want to acknowledge it, but continuity does have substantial value. There is a reason successful organizations change coaches VERY infrequently. Part of that is that they make good hires, but part of that is trusting those hires when success is not linear.

The risk is obvious....wasted time, and further erosion of the brand. But in no way is cutting bait "early" ever an obvious or easy call. Would our offense be better today if Ash had hired a below average OC and stuck with him for 3 years? Almost definitely. That says something about Ash as well. That says something about Ash as well.
Click to expand...
How has the recruiting at OL and DL been? Everybody satisfied with that? Those are the Positions that Win or Lose games more than any other.
 
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C

chrisru99

All-American
Feb 5, 2003
11,110
5,410
62
beaced said:
How has the recruiting at OL and DL been? Everybody satisfied with that? Those are the Positions that Win or Lose games more than any other.
Click to expand...
Where getting kids mostly with little to no power 5 offers. 2 OL’s one from Europe and one a 2 Star. Offering a JUCO really late in the game with 2 confirmed Official visits to Bowl teams is a hope and a prayer.
 
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