I hope Ash's 4th year proves you right. I don't think it will but there's nothing wrong with hope.
Stability is key
- Thread starter Rush4
- Start date
Tom Landry,Chuck Knoll and lets not forget Jimmy Johnson. But in the NFL you have the luxury of doing well in the draft even over powerhouse teams. That said how are you going to build that beautiful foundation on classes ranked 43 to 78. That 78th ranked class (2016) has already lost 1 third (6) of the 18 member class. By the way our currently 68th ranked class our best commits are getting home visits and last minute offers from P-5 and good G-5 schools right before signing date.
Yes, now the staff has already anointed Cole Snyder backup 1b to be starter at the first hiccup of Artur Sitkowski. Have we started spring practice yet? How do we know that he'll be up to the speed and quality of the BiG 10 as a freshman?
Nobody bitched more than Alabama fans when Mike Shula was the head coach. Look what that got them Nick Saban. Guess they really like winning.
Recruiting is not a disaster overall? Our 2019 class is going to end up well below the number shown above with many of our top commits now talking to and/or visiting other schools, and you brought up the QB and WR positions without mentioning Ash's complete whiff at DT recruiting.
"trusting those hires when success is not linear". Well, what criteria are they using to decide Ash will bring eventually success, even if it isn't linear? Recruiting? On the field performance? Less off the field issues? A coach that drives fan support?
There is no measure that can be used to rationally argue Ash will turn things around and nothing that can refute the ideas that money, and desire by Hobbs to avoid admitting he made a bad hire, are the only rationale behind the moronic decision to keep him.
I swear some of these bizzare posts that prop up that Ash isnt really that bad in recruiting or at least the loss was less then 21 points are made by Rutgers athletic dept employees and not real fans.Or Ash,s family..
well when you have a coach who makes poor management decisions year after year and subpar recruiting all stability does is solidify this program as a loser
I don't get the part where you guys repeatedly pin this on Hobbs not wanting to admit he made a mistake. Its clearly only about money (donor money at that - sorry Barchi haters). You all talk about people being Ash's family or AD employees. Anyone connected at all knows its not about Hobbs' pride.
I am not necessarily in favor of retaining Ash. However, I am not in favor of replacing him with a replacement who will not be a significant upgrade, and I am not in favor of simply whining about him non stop now that it is clear he will be here next year.
I was merely taking about the value of continuity and giving you the recruiting numbers. You respond with predictions about the class tanking which is just whining. Obviously, we will see where the class ends up in February, and we will judge it form there. If you want to add DT to my list of specific failures, that's fine. The underlying point remains.
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I am not propping anyone up. I am just calling the recruiting based on the current numbers. The specific failure, as I see it, is the failure to recruit a QB and WRs. I did not say that failure to recruit a QB who can play over a 3 year period is acceptable.
The other specific failure was the hiring of Mehringer, because it killed any chance at achieving stability on the offensive side of the ball. I have said repeatedly, if Ash fails here, and it seems like he will at this point, those are the two causes in my opinion. I am just giving my perception.
You guys are friggin insufferable. If anyone doesn't scream and stamp their feet 24/7 they are a Floodie, or a member of Ash's family to you. No thought, no pause, just ***** and moan for months on end. Why do you even do it? Does it make you feel better about yourself? I couldn't imagine jumping on this board every day to complain at the wind about things I cannot change.
Yeah, it was their bitching that got them that. Wrong. It was their money that got them that. Pony up whiners. The donors make the team, and the jury is in - our donors are not willing to pay for winning football.
"The other specific failure was the firing of Mehringer, because it killed any chance at achieving stability on the offensive side of the ball. "
Fixed it for you.
The power spread - the offense everyone was excited about upon Ash's hiring - needed "stability" and "continuity".
The constantly changing offensive philosophies is the reason Ash has and will continue to fail.
Even if Ash stays 3 more years, there is a limit on how successful a team can be while attempting to only score 20ppg.
Has nothing to do with recruiting rankings.
Until Hobbs shows some leadership with Football program direction,or a sign that he has a plan to fix this mess,yes its on him.
The QB would have to already be good when he got here. This regime has not exactly distinguished itself when it comes to player development at that position.
Okay, sure. But the specific failure is what?
The specific failure is the failure to raise donor funds to accomplish the goal. I am not going to be too hard on Hobbs for that. He has raised a LOT of money since he has been here. The hire of Ash was not a bad one. Those arguments are just silly. Ash was a very good choice. It just hasn't worked to date.
Ok, ok, the other specific failure is the 7 year contract. I'll give you that. It should have been 6, which would have given Ash essentially one extra year to build RU - which would give him next year. Its not the biggest deal though. The school will pay to get rid of him next year if the team doesn't do better.
you lost me at 'the hire of Ash was not a bad one' I stopped at that sentence.
List all the revenue sports at RU where Hobbs has hired a head coach that has been above 500,won a division or conference championship..
The power spread offense that everyone was so excited about needed mastery of its fundamentals, none of which were actually taught, and the right personnel, none of which was ever developed to play in the system. Year 3 of Mehringer's offense would have looked just like year 1 of Mehringer's offense.
"You stopped reading at that sentence." Oh get over yourself.
By what criteria is hiring the DC from a school that won the national championship a bad hire? Coordinator hires are extremely common at P5 schools, and Ash was coming from the best program in the country.
Your part II is loaded, and stupid. There are only 3 (maybe 4 if wrestling turns a profit this year) revenue sports. The only revenue hires Hobbs has made are Ash and Pikiell, and if you want to hold up Pikiell's record as an indicator that Hobbs is a failure you are aboslutely clueless. Pike has been a homerun hire for our basketball program.
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Just put the whiners on ignore. They like to whine about what can't be fixed. We get it. The situation sucks. But it is not going to change no matter how much the whiners whine.
yes it 'cant be fixed'
what an approach. Imagine a CEO of a company just telling shareholders..this cant be fixed..just accept years of lost profits!!
losers mentality.
Absolutely agree. Alot of coaching was needed considering how drastic a change it was for the roster.
Play out your worst case scenario:
If Year 3 is the same as Year 1, DM gets fired midway through this year and takes the blame.
Ash hires a new/better OC for Year 4 to run the system - with a roster that is at least familiar with it.
We literally end up in our current situation but with a modern agressive offensive mindset.
And thats worst case scenario of keeping DM/the system.
Alternatively, what if the team and coaches improved year over year with "stability" and "continuity"?
You aren't a shareholder. No one is telling the "shareholders" it can't be fixed. What we are acknowledging is that it won't be changed at this time, because the donors are not willing to put up the money.
Hobbs created this current mess. This is what he gets paid for. If he can not undue this mess he created,maybe its time to bring someone in who can. Dont forget Hobbs never managed a football program prior.
You are obviously correct that the Ash hire is his doing, and is therefore his responsibility. Anyone even slightly informed about the program knows tat Hobbs never before ran a football program. That the school hired him should tell you something.
Where you are wrong is that:
1. No amount of bitching at the school or on these message boards, or dropping season tickets is going to change anything at the school. The "donors" can have whatever they want, but they have to step up and pay for it. This is no different than anywhere else.
2. While Hobbs will ultimately be held to account, he has performed far too well in his role to be fired over hiring a football coach that failed to turn the team around in 3 years. Football just isn't important enough to our donors to get that kind of a result for one bad hire on that timeline.
You should involve yourself with a different school. Really. You would be happier. Rutgers simply does not have the ability or the desire to be the type of school that will fire a football coach this quickly, and fire an AD for getting one hire wrong. Rutgers does not have anywhere near the donor base to behave the way you clearly want them to. And that is extremely unlikely to change in the next 20 years or so.
Do you really think that even an average coach would only have had one win this past year?
Schiano demonstrated success
His win total increased in his Year 3 significantly. He beat Cuse in Year 3- nevermind Buffalo.
Schiano also had a tougher road in a bad conference with a school that never won a bowl game, nevermind one that won a bowl in the B1G a year before he got here.
I still bash Flood. Flood and Ash both had flashing warning signs and people here were criticized for saying that. Those signs were never apparent with GS.
Saying Flood and Ash suck doesn't make you "suck" it means you have a basic threshold for success which frankly is not having a losing program swirling in criminality. That is too much of an ask?
We were told Hobbs raised several million dollars for other projects.
Why can't he raise the money to buyout Ash?
I don't believe he wants to. Every indication is Hobbs actually believes in Ash.
I personally would like to know who in their personal lives would ever tell a boss, a significant other, a child, a friend...anyone..."faith without results" in a non-sarcastic fashion? How long would that relationship go?
Why can't he raise the money to buyout Ash?
I don't believe he wants to. Every indication is Hobbs actually believes in Ash.
I personally would like to know who in their personal lives would ever tell a boss, a significant other, a child, a friend...anyone..."faith without results" in a non-sarcastic fashion? How long would that relationship go?