Stop self-medicating, morons!

WVUPharm2007

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2007
17,319
1,966
73
Trump did not recommend it's use. Trump talked about what medical advisers are working on just what he said. Other countries have already tried this. People seem to forget the words could be, maybe hopefully.

Trump is smart enough to put a very good, world class immunologist and ID specialist in Anthony Fauci in charge. And he'd be really smart if he'd not add his opinions to the mix. I get that he's an abnormal politician and does abnormal things. But he should really just go over what the plan is from a political perspective, then introduce Dr Fauci and leave everything else to him. Fauci is one of those rare people that both Democrats and Republicans will listen to. Trump should lean on this.
 

scotthotshot

Senior
Oct 3, 2013
6,608
765
113
Fact. Physicians are allowed to prescribe off-label.
So again this goes back to my previous statement that the president of the United states should have a higher standard of what information he is giving publicly. Off label approval isnt even a real thing yet he said and now people all over the country are saying as if it's true. He needs to be more careful when he talks and not just try to always make himself sound smarter than he is.
 

WVUALLEN

All-American
Aug 4, 2009
72,706
5,507
113
Trump is smart enough to put a very good, world class immunologist and ID specialist in Anthony Fauci in charge. And he'd be really smart if he'd not add his opinions to the mix. I get that he's an abnormal politician and does abnormal things. But he should really just introduce the man, go over what the plan is, and leave everything else to Dr. Fauci.

Yet stupid people do stupid things then try their best to blame others. Reporters ask questions. You don't answer with something they write Trump is hiding something. He answers the question and reporter writes Trump knows the cure. People listen more to the media than the president.
 

WVUPharm2007

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2007
17,319
1,966
73
So again this goes back to my previous statement that the president of the United states should have a higher standard of what information he is giving publicly. Off label approval isnt even a real thing yet he said and now people all over the country are saying as if it's true. He needs to be more careful when he talks and not just try to always make himself sound smarter than he is.

To be fair, the intricacies of drug approval aren't that important and is just serving as a means for gotchas and online arguments. Whether or not people think the drug needs approval or not is irrelevant in the long term.

I have more of an issue with the man making statements about how such and such treatment might be the answer to this calamity. As we see, it is causing issues not only here, but in Nigeria. Donald just needs to chill out on the opinions and let the professionals speak.
 

WVUPharm2007

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2007
17,319
1,966
73
Yet stupid people do stupid things then try their best to blame others. Reporters ask questions. You don't answer with something they write Trump is hiding something. He answers the question and reporter writes Trump knows the cure. People listen more to the media than the president.

Depends on the person. There are CLEARLY some people that listen to the president more than the media. Hence the aquarium cleaner eater.
 
Dec 11, 2002
10,842
554
113
By a family practitioner.

"Dr. Zelenko is a Lubavitcher Chasid (Jewish mystic sect) who is the primary care provider for most of the Satmar community in Kiryat Joel, N.Y. "

"The Satmar vehemently oppose the state of Israel, viewing it as a blasphemous arrogance -- since it is only the Messiah who is supposed to bring the Jewish nation back from exile to Israel."

Sounds legit.

Yes, a person's faith should completely discount anything he has to say. Can't trust those darn Jews and all you know.

Good grief!
 

WVUALLEN

All-American
Aug 4, 2009
72,706
5,507
113
Depends on the person. There are CLEARLY some people that listen to the president more than the media. Hence the aquarium cleaner eater.

Did they listen or did they read it? Did trump say go out and digest aquarium cleaner? Trump in fact said medical staff were working on getting cure that he believed might be game changer. Never said it is.
 
Dec 11, 2002
10,842
554
113
So again this goes back to my previous statement that the president of the United states should have a higher standard of what information he is giving publicly. Off label approval isnt even a real thing yet he said and now people all over the country are saying as if it's true. He needs to be more careful when he talks and not just try to always make himself sound smarter than he is.

If he doesn't say something he's chastised for lack of candor.

If he does say something and people take it the wrong way he's chastised for that too.

The guy can't win here no matter what he does.

Personally, I think what he did was fine and was thankful he said what he did. It might work. It might not. No one though should look at what he said and find him culpable for what the gentleman and his wife did with aquarium cleaner.
 

EEReverent

All-Conference
Oct 7, 2004
15,533
1,284
113
By a family practitioner.

"Dr. Zelenko is a Lubavitcher Chasid (Jewish mystic sect) who is the primary care provider for most of the Satmar community in Kiryat Joel, N.Y. "

"The Satmar vehemently oppose the state of Israel, viewing it as a blasphemous arrogance -- since it is only the Messiah who is supposed to bring the Jewish nation back from exile to Israel."

Sounds legit.

“Zelenko said that he has been using a cocktail of drugs on his patients: hydroxychloroquine, in combination with azithromycin — an antibiotic to treat secondary infections — and zinc sulfate, which studies have suggested slows down virus replication in the body. He said he had been administering the cocktail to patients with shortness of breath of any age, and those over 60 years old or who are immunocompromised and exhibiting milder symptoms. He said he is not treating asymptomatic people under 60 who are healthy or low risk.”

Seems to be leaving Jewish mysticism and messianic prophecy out of it
 

WVUPharm2007

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2007
17,319
1,966
73
Did they listen or did they read it? Did trump say go out and digest aquarium cleaner? Trump in fact said medical staff were working on getting cure that he believed might be game changer. Never said it is.
Either way, he needs to realize that he's not an expert and his opinion isn't worth that much when it comes to the science behind tackling this issue.
 

SacreBleu

Freshman
Jun 12, 2009
1,625
75
0
Yes, a person's faith should completely discount anything he has to say. Can't trust those darn Jews and all you know.

Good grief!
I'm just saying that a 350 out of 350 cure rate by a family practitioner sounds like pure ********.

If he came from Johns Hopkins instead an isolated mystic sect, he might be more believable. I'm going out on a limb and guess he didn't do a double blind study.
 

scotthotshot

Senior
Oct 3, 2013
6,608
765
113
To be fair, the intricacies of drug approval aren't that important and is just serving as a means for gotchas and online arguments. Whether or not people think the drug needs approval or not is irrelevant in the long term.

I have more of an issue with the man making statements about how such and such treatment might be the answer to this calamity. As we see, it is causing issues not only here, but in Nigeria. Donald just needs to chill out on the opinions and let the professionals speak.
Oh I agree, I'm just saying his words matter. What he says and how he says it matter. And he just doesn't seem to grasp that.
 
Dec 11, 2002
10,842
554
113
Either way, he needs to realize that he's not an expert and his opinion isn't worth that much when it comes to the science behind tackling this issue.

Either way, you're not an expert on what the president does or does not know.

See how that works?

I get your point, but I think most don't take issue with him saying what he did. Those not on the far left at least.
 

WVUPharm2007

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2007
17,319
1,966
73
“Zelenko said that he has been using a cocktail of drugs on his patients: hydroxychloroquine, in combination with azithromycin — an antibiotic to treat secondary infections — and zinc sulfate, which studies have suggested slows down virus replication in the body. He said he had been administering the cocktail to patients with shortness of breath of any age, and those over 60 years old or who are immunocompromised and exhibiting milder symptoms. He said he is not treating asymptomatic people under 60 who are healthy or low risk.”

Seems to be leaving Jewish mysticism and messianic prophecy out of it

I wouldn't put too much stock into this. It's not a clinical study. It appears that he was giving it to anyone with symptoms. He may have not treated anyone with COVID-19. If you are giving these drugs to people with a typical bacterial infection, the Zpak will cover it. If its the common cold, it will just resolve itself naturally. We don't know. He just went on TV and made lofty claims.

Again, as of right now - we aren't really sure if the hydroxychloroquine + Azith combo really works right now. It would be AWESOME if it does, but I want to stress caution. Live life like it won't work.
 

WVUALLEN

All-American
Aug 4, 2009
72,706
5,507
113

scotthotshot

Senior
Oct 3, 2013
6,608
765
113
If he doesn't say something he's chastised for lack of candor.

If he does say something and people take it the wrong way he's chastised for that too.

The guy can't win here no matter what he does.

Personally, I think what he did was fine and was thankful he said what he did. It might work. It might not. No one though should look at what he said and find him culpable for what the gentleman and his wife did with aquarium cleaner.
That's a gross oversimplification. If he says something he needs to be smart about what he is saying. He has a tendency to both over exaggerate and counter what his experts are saying. Just say we're doing our best, we're looking into possible treatments, here is Dr. Fucci our expert. Easy
 

WV1863

Freshman
Apr 13, 2019
409
96
28

3rd time:

Which do you think is the higher number:

The number of people who ingest fish tank cleaner mistakenly believing that it is the same as hydroxychloroquine that MANY governments (not just the one you target) are optimistic about as a COVID-19 treatment

OR

The number of people who refuse to consider taking hydroxychloroquine when a doctor prescribes it because media and OP have sensationalized this particular fish tank story

?

The goal is to save lives. In the long run, your fear mongering here will cost more lives than the number of lives lost to fish tank cleaner.
 
Dec 11, 2002
10,842
554
113
I'm just saying that a 350 out of 350 cure rate by a family practitioner sounds like pure ********.

If he came from Johns Hopkins instead an isolated mystic sect, he might be more believable. I'm going out on a limb and guess he didn't do a double blind study.

Doctors in the field trying to treat a condition don't normally do double blind studies.

His goal was not to prove it works.

His goal was to make sick people well.
 

WVUPharm2007

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2007
17,319
1,966
73
Either way, you're not an expert on what the president does or does not know.

See how that works?

I get your point, but I think most don't take issue with him saying what he did. Those not on the far left at least.

I mean...I'm pretty sure Trump didn't go to medical or pharmacy school. And didn't do a fellowship in ID.
 

WVUPharm2007

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2007
17,319
1,966
73
3rd time:

Which do you think is the higher number:

The number of people who ingest fish tank cleaner mistakenly believing that it is the same as hydroxychloroquine that MANY governments (not just the one you target) are optimistic about as a COVID-19 treatment

OR

The number of people who refuse to consider taking hydroxychloroquine when a doctor prescribes it because media and OP have sensationalized this particular fish tank story

?

The goal is to save lives. In the long run, your fear mongering here will cost more lives than the number of lives lost to fish tank cleaner.

I already replied to this like 3 pages back, buckaroo.
 
Dec 11, 2002
10,842
554
113
That's a gross oversimplification. If he says something he needs to be smart about what he is saying. He has a tendency to both over exaggerate and counter what his experts are saying. Just say we're doing our best, we're looking into possible treatments, here is Dr. Fucci our expert. Easy

In other words be a politician.

I for one find his candor refreshing. It's a shame some take what he says and do foolish things, but I will not blame him for saying what he thinks is right.
 

WVUALLEN

All-American
Aug 4, 2009
72,706
5,507
113
I'm glad he has an open mind. He still should leave the science to scientists. Fauci has to reel Trump's statements back after that, too.

It's obvious you have a one sided opinion of the situation. Have a great day.
 
Dec 11, 2002
10,842
554
113
I mean...I'm pretty sure Trump didn't go to medical or pharmacy school. And didn't do a fellowship in ID.

And I'm pretty sure you didn't get a degree in computer science but you are using a computer of some sort to reply here because you have a grasp of how it is used even if you aren't an expert. Do you see the point? You don't have to be a certified expert to make a comment.

That said, he's around some very smart folks that are experts. Perhaps he's gleaned some valuable insight? None of us know what he does, or does not, know.
 

CAJUNEER_rivals

Redshirt
May 29, 2001
72,872
44
0
Think about what you just posted. If the FDA were to give an "approval" then it is an approved use and not "unapproved or off-label". That's the whole reason for the approval process. Many drugs are used for "unapproved or off-label" purposes; but then they would not be part of the FDA approval process.

https://www.fda.gov/patients/learn-...rstanding-unapproved-use-approved-drugs-label
The VP went to great lengths to say that they made changes under these unprecedented circumstances for the FDA approval of "off-label" use. They way I understood it is this is an emergency provisional use. The full studies have not been submitted and reviewed, and, therefore, the indication remains unchanged.
 

scotthotshot

Senior
Oct 3, 2013
6,608
765
113
In other words be a politician.

I for one find his candor refreshing. It's a shame some take what he says and do foolish things, but I will not blame him for saying what he thinks is right.
No not be a politician, just dont make things up or exaggerate. In a time of crisis or mass panic exaggerating makes things worse. No one up to that point had used the term game changer in any manner about these drugs, so why say it? Say what you know, then let the expert say what he knows. It has nothing to do with being a politician.
 

WV1863

Freshman
Apr 13, 2019
409
96
28
I already replied to this like 3 pages back, buckaroo.

No you didn't. You went on another tangent. It's a simple question. Which is the higher number?

Option A:
The number of people who ingest fish tank cleaner mistakenly believing that it is the same as hydroxychloroquine that MANY governments (not just the one you target) are optimistic about as a COVID-19 treatment

OR

Option B:
The number of people who refuse to consider taking hydroxychloroquine when a doctor prescribes it because media and OP have sensationalized this particular fish tank story

You're running from the answer because we all know the answer is Option B. Yet you've spent all your time, talent, and energy lecturing us about the Arizona case.

That's a shame, IMO. You're putting your politics over people's health. I don't care if you call yourself an Independent or a Whig. This a crisis time right now. Everyone on ALL sides should be better than that.
 
Dec 11, 2002
10,842
554
113
No not be a politician, just dont make things up or exaggerate. In a time of crisis or mass panic exaggerating makes things worse. No one up to that point had used the term game changer in any manner about these drugs, so why say it? Say what you know, then let the expert say what he knows. It has nothing to do with being a politician.

What did he make up?

What did he exaggerate?

He said it could be a game changer. And, it could be. Might not be, but many seem to feel it is helpful.

So, it wasn't a lie nor an exaggeration.
 

SacreBleu

Freshman
Jun 12, 2009
1,625
75
0
I wouldn't put too much stock into this. It's not a clinical study. It appears that he was giving it to anyone with symptoms. He may have not treated anyone with COVID-19. If you are giving these drugs to people with a typical bacterial infection, the Zpak will cover it. If its the common cold, it will just resolve itself naturally. We don't know. He just went on TV and made lofty claims.

Again, as of right now - we aren't really sure if the hydroxychloroquine + Azith combo really works right now. It would be AWESOME if it does, but I want to stress caution. Live life like it won't work.

KIRYAS JOEL - Village leaders and community groups issued a joint statement on Tuesday rebuking a local doctor’s predictions about the spread of the coronavirus and urging him to stop posting videos online about the outbreak or else leave Kiryas Joel and the Hasidic community out of them.

The unusual public plea from the village’s main congregation, health center and other organizations came after Dr. Vladimir Zelenko recorded at least seven videos, including one that predicted a rampant spread of COVID-19 in Kiryas Joel and another that led Fox News host Sean Hannity to invoke the community on his radio and TV shows on Monday.

“We the undersigned institutions strongly believe that the predictions presented by Dr. Zelenko have been proven false and are not supported by the overall medical establishment, specifically in his wild conclusions as to the spread of the virus in our community,” the letter stated.
 

WVUPharm2007

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2007
17,319
1,966
73
No you didn't. You went on another tangent. It's a simple question. Which is the higher number?

Option A:
The number of people who ingest fish tank cleaner mistakenly believing that it is the same as hydroxychloroquine that MANY governments (not just the one you target) are optimistic about as a COVID-19 treatment

OR

Option B:
The number of people who refuse to consider taking hydroxychloroquine when a doctor prescribes it because media and OP have sensationalized this particular fish tank story

You're running from the answer because we all know the answer is Option B. Yet you've spent all your time, talent, and energy lecturing us about the Arizona case.

That's a shame, IMO. You're putting your politics over people's health. I don't care if you call yourself an Independent or a Whig. This a crisis time right now. Everyone on ALL sides should be better than that.

It's kind of a strawman argument. Who is out there claiming that they won't take a drug because of this?

I don't think it would be "B" necessary, though. I think they would both be extremely low. People would understand that the guy drank fish tank cleaner, not the actual pharmaceutical.

What a bizarre attempt at a "gotcha."
 
Dec 17, 2007
14,955
956
113
The VP went to great lengths to say that they made changes under these unprecedented circumstances for the FDA approval of "off-label" use. They way I understood it is this is an emergency provisional use. The full studies have not been submitted and reviewed, and, therefore, the indication remains unchanged.
And once again, people who should know better mis-spoke and caused further confusion. What is actually true is that "The FDA cleared the way for New York to experiment with the malaria and lupus drug hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic Zithromax (generic name azithromycin) as a treatment for COVID-19". The FDA has not made any changes to its processes for drug approval and has not changed its stance on off-label use.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/cor...to-treat-covid-19-heres-what-we-know/2341931/

Even the report on FOX uses an incorrect headline, they should know better too, and provides contradictory information on their own website.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/pence-fda-hydroxychloroquine-off-label-coronavirus
 

Mitch D.

All-Conference
Mar 8, 2018
20,738
2,058
112
Trump is smart enough to put a very good, world class immunologist and ID specialist in Anthony Fauci in charge. And he'd be really smart if he'd not add his opinions to the mix. I get that he's an abnormal politician and does abnormal things. But he should really just go over what the plan is from a political perspective, then introduce Dr Fauci and leave everything else to him. Fauci is one of those rare people that both Democrats and Republicans will listen to. Trump should lean on this.
No argument with this.
 

scotthotshot

Senior
Oct 3, 2013
6,608
765
113
What did he make up?

What did he exaggerate?

He said it could be a game changer. And, it could be. Might not be, but many seem to feel it is helpful.

So, it wasn't a lie nor an exaggeration.
You dont see the difference in telling people something might be helpful or that something might be a game changer? That's like coach Brown telling the Blue lot this team might be national champs next year. They could possibly be, but then again they might just be slightly above average. Why say it with such strong wording? What good does it do anyone?
 

WV1863

Freshman
Apr 13, 2019
409
96
28
It's kind of a strawman argument. Who is out there claiming that they won't take a drug because of this?

I don't think it would be "B" necessary, though. I think they would both be extremely low. People would understand that the guy drank fish tank cleaner, not the actual pharmaceutical.

What a bizarre attempt at a "gotcha."

It took you multiple posts in this thread before you acknowledged that the guy drank fish tank cleaner, not the actual pharmaceutical.

You're a pharmacist.
 

Raven Shaddock

Redshirt
Oct 15, 2016
17,326
0
0
It took you multiple posts in this thread before you acknowledged that the guy drank fish tank cleaner, not the actual pharmaceutical.

You're a pharmacist.
We are all actually more alike than we are different.

Those who scream towards the sky after an election blame Trump for people who consume hazardous treatments for Koi ponds and for all the braindead betas on our campuses eating Tide Pods.

I look at certifiable lunatics like Schumer, Pelosi, Ocasio-Cortez, Schiff, Maxine Waters and their ilk and I blame the idiot adults in this country for eating Tide pods.

You see ... we have more similarities than differences.
 

CAJUNEER_rivals

Redshirt
May 29, 2001
72,872
44
0
We are all actually more alike than we are different.

Those who scream towards the sky after an election blame Trump for people who consume hazardous treatments for Koi ponds and for all the braindead betas on our campuses eating Tide Pods.

I look at certifiable lunatics like Schumer, Pelosi, Ocasio-Cortez, Schiff, Maxine Waters and their ilk and I blame the idiot adults in this country for eating Tide pods.

You see ... we have more similarities than differences.
I think they're call Covidiots.