What's wrong with this picture....

DvlDog4WVU

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s rich white people that have the ability to force players to stand, no? The owners? the commish? Trumpy dumpy big rumpy?

I’m fine with owners making whatever rules they choose to make. I’m fine with the commish making whatever rules he wants. If I agree with them or not, that’s not my business. I’m just saying, it’s obvious to me that many just have no clue why players started doing this in the first place, and most of you don’t care. For a Donald Trump or a Jerry Jones to think they can dictate the motivation for kneeling through repressing the players actions is counterproductive, imo.

The conversation should be more about what the kneeling does, rather than the fact that the kneeling shouldn’t be done.
I don’t know of anyone that thinks the players are doing it to disrespect the troops. That is a leftist narrative to combat dissent against their action. They were kneeling to bring awareness to police brutality against unarmed black men. No one is disputing that. Their action however does offend some because we place the whole of a nation and our the symbols of our nation above that of the individual. I respect their attempt to bring awareness, I disagree with their method.

I’ve not seen one person say they don’t have the right to do it. I’ve seen a lot say they shouldn’t do it as it does offend many. Personally, I fought for and have covered the coffins of fallen comrades with that flag. That flag is presented to the fallen’s next of kin as a symbol of their sacrifice. I find their act, while noble in its own right, to be extremely disrespectful and tone deaf. They have the right to do whatever they want. It’s guaranteed by the 1st amendment. With freedom comes consequence though. The consequence for their action is a lot of people tuned out and turned off the NFL. They are afterall, entertainers. Their product suffers. Maybe the players are fine with that. The men responsible for the money were not. It’s irrespective of the color of skin. The product suffers, and those players no longer have their platform. A business owner has every right to defend their product and place appropriate behavioral guidelines on their employees. It’s not a restriction of the player’s “rights”. They can still do it, they can be held responsible for their conduct. See if they care more about their money than they do their cause. Let’s see how principled they truly are.
 

Boomboom521

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You don’t have free speech in a place of employment. WTF are you all talking about? They can quit if they don’t like the policy, it’s pretty simple.
There are certain rights still guaranteed in the workplace though.
I don’t know of anyone that thinks the players are doing it to disrespect the troops. That is a leftist narrative to combat dissent against their action. They were kneeling to bring awareness to police brutality against unarmed black men. No one is disputing that. Their action however does offend some because we place the whole of a nation and our the symbols of our nation above that of the individual. I respect their attempt to bring awareness, I disagree with their method.

I’ve not seen one person say they don’t have the right to do it. I’ve seen a lot say they shouldn’t do it as it does offend many. Personally, I fought for and have covered the coffins of fallen comrades with that flag. That flag is presented to the fallen’s next of kin as a symbol of their sacrifice. I find their act, while noble in its own right, to be extremely disrespectful and tone deaf. They have the right to do whatever they want. It’s guaranteed by the 1st amendment. With freedom comes consequence though. The consequence for their action is a lot of people tuned out and turned off the NFL. They are afterall, entertainers. Their product suffers. Maybe the players are fine with that. The men responsible for the money were not. It’s irrespective of the color of skin. The product suffers, and those players no longer have their platform. A business owner has every right to defend their product and place appropriate behavioral guidelines on their employees. It’s not a restriction of the player’s “rights”. They can still do it, they can be held responsible for their conduct. See if they care more about their money than they do their cause. Let’s see how principled they truly are.
jfc....I hear you. It’s exactly my point. And btw, people all through this thread are saying the don’t have the right to do it. The Trump, the commish, and the owners are saying they don’t have the right as well. It’s just going to keep this Bullsh1t going. Appealing to the offense it causes soldiers would be more effective, imo. The “war” on Kaepernick and all those that kneel is just ridiculous, imo, because like you said they are just using the platform to bring awareness to a problem that for those effected by it is a pretty big fvcking deal.
 

Boomboom521

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I don’t know of anyone that thinks the players are doing it to disrespect the troops. That is a leftist narrative to combat dissent against their action. They were kneeling to bring awareness to police brutality against unarmed black men. No one is disputing that. Their action however does offend some because we place the whole of a nation and our the symbols of our nation above that of the individual. I respect their attempt to bring awareness, I disagree with their method.

I’ve not seen one person say they don’t have the right to do it. I’ve seen a lot say they shouldn’t do it as it does offend many. Personally, I fought for and have covered the coffins of fallen comrades with that flag. That flag is presented to the fallen’s next of kin as a symbol of their sacrifice. I find their act, while noble in its own right, to be extremely disrespectful and tone deaf. They have the right to do whatever they want. It’s guaranteed by the 1st amendment. With freedom comes consequence though. The consequence for their action is a lot of people tuned out and turned off the NFL. They are afterall, entertainers. Their product suffers. Maybe the players are fine with that. The men responsible for the money were not. It’s irrespective of the color of skin. The product suffers, and those players no longer have their platform. A business owner has every right to defend their product and place appropriate behavioral guidelines on their employees. It’s not a restriction of the player’s “rights”. They can still do it, they can be held responsible for their conduct. See if they care more about their money than they do their cause. Let’s see how principled they truly are.
Kaepernick gained my respect by staying true to it, honestly. Like Ali losing years of his prime. Sometimes the theatre that needs the brave is here and not abroad.
 

TarHeelEer

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Dec 15, 2002
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people all through this thread are saying the don’t have the right to do it.

You're getting damn good at just throwing crap against the wall, and hoping it sticks. You sure you don't want to be a politician? Noone in this thread said such a thing.
 

mneilmont

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Jan 23, 2008
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Most of society sees what is wrong with a few idiots attempting to say it is OK to ignore the way the we honor those who have gone before. Just showing you how stupid you are in your attempt to suck up.
 

Boomboom521

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You're getting damn good at just throwing crap against the wall, and hoping it sticks. You sure you don't want to be a politician? Noone in this thread said such a thing.
Sure they are.

People are making the comparisons of the workplace and the start of NFL football game televised nationally. The parallels don’t fit. The platform makes the entire situation different from anything being discussed.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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There are certain rights still guaranteed in the workplace though.

jfc....I hear you. It’s exactly my point. And btw, people all through this thread are saying the don’t have the right to do it. The Trump, the commish, and the owners are saying they don’t have the right as well. It’s just going to keep this Bullsh1t going. Appealing to the offense it causes soldiers would be more effective, imo. The “war” on Kaepernick and all those that kneel is just ridiculous, imo, because like you said they are just using the platform to bring awareness to a problem that for those effected by it is a pretty big fvcking deal.
You are conflating words.

If your employer decides you can’t use their platform to raise awareness, you may well retain the right but with the exorcising of that right will come the consequence the employer decides, which in this case would likely be a fine or termination. That is also their right, as the owner.
 

Boomboom521

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Most of society sees what is wrong with a few idiots attempting to say it is OK to ignore the way the we honor those who have gone before. Just showing you how stupid you are in your attempt to suck up.
One could argue that Kaepernick is doing exactly that by kneeling
 

DvlDog4WVU

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Sure they are.

People are making the comparisons of the workplace and the start of NFL football game televised nationally. The parallels don’t fit. The platform makes the entire situation different from anything being discussed.
They fit exactly.

The players are employees of the NFL and the teams. The NFL is a sports entertainment business. They own the rights to the TV and the associated revenue generated from advertising and programming viewership. If your actions as an employee are negatively impacting their product, which it absolutely is in this case, you can be disciplined. You either follow the rules or you don’t, but you deal with the consequences of those actions. The NFL is under zero obligation to provide their platform for your cause.

It’s very very simple.
 

TarHeelEer

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Sure they are.

People are making the comparisons of the workplace and the start of NFL football game televised nationally. The parallels don’t fit. The platform makes the entire situation different from anything being discussed.

That has nothing to do with anyone here saying they have no right to kneel/whatever, which they haven't.
 

Boomboom521

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You are conflating words.

If your employer decides you can’t use their platform to raise awareness, you may well retain the right but with the exorcising of that right will come the consequence the employer decides, which in this case would likely be a fine or termination. That is also their right, as the owner.
Which hasn’t been done yet. If it’s done, I think it will only make it more of an issue.

Don’t mistake NFL players for the crew at your local Wal-Mart. All it will take is a big name risking their career.

Where as, imo — not reading from the leftist daily talking points, like you think I am — if the discussion becomes more about 1) the issue that players are trying to bring awareness to and 2) the negative that soldiers feel when seeing the kneeling, then I think the issue fades.

Obama tried to bring awareness to the issue, and people called him a traitor to LE, and still cite him as the reason cops are being shot. Don’t fool yourself into thinking the issue that cause the kneelingisnt an issue that needs addressed. Worst thing about this issue to me, is that people ignore the real problem.
 

WVUCOOPER

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Dec 10, 2002
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They fit exactly.

The players are employees of the NFL and the teams. The NFL is a sports entertainment business. They own the rights to the TV and the associated revenue generated from advertising and programming viewership. If your actions as an employee are negatively impacting their product, which it absolutely is in this case, you can be disciplined. You either follow the rules or you don’t, but you deal with the consequences of those actions. The NFL is under zero obligation to provide their platform for your cause.

It’s very very simple.
And yet I don't think the owners will enforce too much if the player helps them win. The players aren't powerless here and it seemed to work out for them pretty well.
 

mneilmont

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Jan 23, 2008
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They may not have meant to protest soldiers and the military and I don't think they were. However..... they were disrespecting our country and symbols of our country. If they wanted to protest the police......they should kneel at police headquarters and police stations.
That would have been too easy to connect.
 

Boomboom521

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They fit exactly.

The players are employees of the NFL and the teams. The NFL is a sports entertainment business. They own the rights to the TV and the associated revenue generated from advertising and programming viewership. If your actions as an employee are negatively impacting their product, which it absolutely is in this case, you can be disciplined. You either follow the rules or you don’t, but you deal with the consequences of those actions. The NFL is under zero obligation to provide their platform for your cause.

It’s very very simple.
Do owners have the right to prevent a player from skydiving? Does an employer?
 

DvlDog4WVU

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Don’t mistake NFL players for the crew at your local Wal-Mart. All it will take is a big name risking their career.
Agreed.
And yet I don't think the owners will enforce too much if the player helps them win. The players aren't powerless here and it seemed to work out for them pretty well.
Agreed.

However, people did tune out and the longer this **** sow continues, the less power the players will have.
 

WVUCOOPER

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Agreed.

Agreed.

However, people did tune out and the longer this **** sow continues, the less power the players will have.
Maybe. People are tuning out tv in general. Bigly. And yet live sports is still king and the NFL is the top dog. The NFL is probably more valuable than ever before. I think the people that were going to leave over the anthem stuff has left and will probably be back regardless.

Oh well. Just can't wait to legally bet on the games this fall from the comfort of my iPhone.
 

MountaineerWV

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Sep 18, 2007
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I do. It’s how you maintain a lasting peace and rebuild a nation very quickly that was ripped apart by civil war. Reconstruction was a genius policy decision. The alternative is what you see across the world where mass genocide occurs stamping out the opposition. You’ve seen it work in Iraq and they are starting to use it in AFG as well. It forces you to handle the situation through politics vs. at the end of a gun.

i guess you’d have preferred mass genocide.

So, slavery resulted in the deaths of approximately 5 million slaves in the United States......it was the rules of the southern "society" that promoted this death count.......so you are OK with those individuals who were directly responsible for such actions (to take back over in government power)? Wow......I guess you would have allowed Hitler to remain in power in Nazi Germany if he stopped the war and promised to "do better"......I mean he was only responsible for his policies resulting in the deaths of 6 million Jews........but what's 1 million deaths, really? [eyeroll]
 

30CAT

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s rich white people that have the ability to force players to stand, no? The owners? the commish? Trumpy dumpy big rumpy?

Why do liberals always play the race card where it doesn't need to be played?
 

DvlDog4WVU

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So, slavery resulted in the deaths of approximately 5 million slaves in the United States......it was the rules of the southern "society" that promoted this death count.......so you are OK with those individuals who were directly responsible for such actions (to take back over in government power)? Wow......I guess you would have allowed Hitler to remain in power in Nazi Germany if he stopped the war and promised to "do better"......I mean he was only responsible for his policies resulting in the deaths of 6 million Jews........but what's 1 million deaths, really? [eyeroll]
Your premise is incorrect as is your analogy. Slavery was predominantly in the southern states true, but it also existed in the northern states prior to the mid 1800s. Both, the north and south contributed to slavery at points within our country. The South broke over slavery, the country went to war, and the south lost. The north could have probably rounded up the leadership, hung them all, taken the lands of southern Gentry and parsed it out to Northern land barons. They could have outlawed the flag and restricted the freedom of speech and expression, and killed all who opposed these actions. Had they done that, many many more lives would have been lost, the war would have turned to into an insurgency, and we’d still be killing each other in blood feuds today. Thankfully, logic prevailed over emotion, and actions you’d have advocated for were shelved in favor of allowing the Southern States to maintain their dignity resulting in the US rebounding and in less than 30 years, we became a world power.

The analogy would be applicable if you’d have said we rounded up all the rank and file Officer Corps of the Nazis and executed them. We didn’t, they were allowed to assimilate back into their country to help rebuild it. Those directly responsible, decision makers and executioners of the holocaust, were tried in Nuremberg.

You’re trying very hard and failing miserably to paint me as some supporter of slavery and even the confederacy. I’m not in either case.

And as far as your numbers of 5 million, you’re incorrect. Next time research as opposed to quoting the fvcking daily show.
 

bornaneer

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Worst thing about this issue to me, is that people ignore the real problem.
Thanks for reminding me.....it's been awhile.
Chicago Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 277
Total Shot: 1707
Chicago July To Date
Shot & Killed: 59
Total Shot: 321
 

Boomboom521

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Could void a contract probably.
That’s where the difference is though. A player is drafted to a team, and they own that players rights. Not to say that player couldn’t say f the contract, and skydive for a year then sign with whomever doesn’t put that in the next contract. But it’s just a little different than the typical professional job market
 

bornaneer

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Thanks for reminding me.....it's been awhile.
Chicago Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 277
Total Shot: 1707
Chicago July To Date
Shot & Killed: 59
Total Shot: 321
Any words from Kaerperdick and LeBron about this?
 

Boomboom521

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Why do liberals always play the race card where it doesn't need to be played?
I wasn’t playing a race card, honestly. I’m saying that people from affluent communities who are not brown skinned don’t face the issues these players are trying to bring attention to.....AND it’s been mostly rich white people saying they should be forced to stand, no?
 

TarHeelEer

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That’s where the difference is though. A player is drafted to a team, and they own that players rights. Not to say that player couldn’t say f the contract, and skydive for a year then sign with whomever doesn’t put that in the next contract. But it’s just a little different than the typical professional job market

Contactors are contractors, no matter the occupation.
 

MountaineerWV

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Sep 18, 2007
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Your premise is incorrect as is your analogy. Slavery was predominantly in the southern states true, but it also existed in the northern states prior to the mid 1800s. Both, the north and south contributed to slavery at points within our country. The South broke over slavery, the country went to war, and the south lost. The north could have probably rounded up the leadership, hung them all, taken the lands of southern Gentry and parsed it out to Northern land barons. They could have outlawed the flag and restricted the freedom of speech and expression, and killed all who opposed these actions. Had they done that, many many more lives would have been lost, the war would have turned to into an insurgency, and we’d still be killing each other in blood feuds today. Thankfully, logic prevailed over emotion, and actions you’d have advocated for were shelved in favor of allowing the Southern States to maintain their dignity resulting in the US rebounding and in less than 30 years, we became a world power.

The analogy would be applicable if you’d have said we rounded up all the rank and file Officer Corps of the Nazis and executed them. We didn’t, they were allowed to assimilate back into their country to help rebuild it. Those directly responsible, decision makers and executioners of the holocaust, were tried in Nuremberg.

You’re trying very hard and failing miserably to paint me as some supporter of slavery and even the confederacy. I’m not in either case.

And as far as your numbers of 5 million, you’re incorrect. Next time research as opposed to quoting the fvcking daily show.

It's "incorrect"? Yeah, my sources say 5 million.......your southern apologist websites probably claim 10......those being from food poisoning......[eyeroll]

Facts: Southern "slave codes" = Nazi Nuremberg Laws
Facts: Slaves were owned, forcibly worked and disciplined, same as the Jews
Facts: Nazi leaders who were directly responsible for such actions, like killing of the Jews, were held responsible, put on trial, and executed.........southern plantation owners who MURDERED slaves prior to the Civil War were never arrested, never tried, and some allowed to return back to the place of these murders to "employ" sharecroppers (former slaves)........
 

mneilmont

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Jan 23, 2008
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One could argue that Kaepernick is doing exactly that by kneeling
You are looking at the situation differently and you cannot/refuse to see the other side.

In the stadium, you have 50,000 spectators who are standing- none kneeling. On the field, you have a team of 45 with 25 kneeling. Purely from numbers, we have to assume the large majority respect the flag, and the National Anthem. About half of the team are attempting to make a statement. I am on the side of those respecting history. You are respecting the 25 that are complaining about something that is totally unrelated to the business at hand. Also, the majority is not sympathetic with their issue. The vast majority truly respect the police and firemen who are actually doing their job "to serve and protect".

Really have no great problem with their voicing an issue, but it is the wrong venue. The few who support what is happening at football games are not being reasonable, IMO.
 

MountaineerWV

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You are looking at the situation differently and you cannot/refuse to see the other side.

In the stadium, you have 50,000 spectators who are standing- none kneeling. On the field, you have a team of 45 with 25 kneeling. Purely from numbers, we have to assume the large majority respect the flag, and the National Anthem. About half of the team are attempting to make a statement. I am on the side of those respecting history. You are respecting the 25 that are complaining about something that is totally unrelated to the business at hand. Also, the majority is not sympathetic with their issue. The vast majority truly respect the police and firemen who are actually doing their job "to serve and protect".

Really have no great problem with their voicing an issue, but it is the wrong venue. The few who support what is happening at football games are not being reasonable, IMO.

In the 50,000 you mentioned, how many are doing the following during the anthem?

1. On their phones?
2. At the concessions?
3. Talking?
4. Wearing their hats? (Ex. Jerry Jones)

They made a consciously decision to do such actions during the anthem. Me, personally, if I'm in line at the concessions and I hear the anthem, I stop what I'm doing until it's over.....but that's me. For those that are doing the things above, I do not yell at them and demand they do what I'm doing.......
 

bornaneer

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In the 50,000 you mentioned, how many are doing the following during the anthem?

1. On their phones?
2. At the concessions?
3. Talking?
4. Wearing their hats? (Ex. Jerry Jones)

They made a consciously decision to do such actions during the anthem. Me, personally, if I'm in line at the concessions and I hear the anthem, I stop what I'm doing until it's over.....but that's me. For those that are doing the things above, I do not yell at them and demand they do what I'm doing.......
Lets get real.......What Kaeperdick and his ilk did is totally different from other people in the arenas.
 

MountaineerWV

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Sep 18, 2007
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Lets get real.......What Kaeperdick and his ilk did is totally different from other people in the arenas.

You are right, they are bringing attention to a cause while the others in the arenas ignoring the anthem are just a$$holes......[thumbsup]
 

bornaneer

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Because he has more visibility and leverage than the fan, hence his protest.
Oh....You are correct and I understand it. My reply was about not confusing fans with hats on,using social media and waiting on a hot dog with the actions of Kaerperdick.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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It's "incorrect"? Yeah, my sources say 5 million.......your southern apologist websites probably claim 10......those being from food poisoning......[eyeroll]
Another liberal who gets their news from The Daily Show.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...-stewart-slave-trade-caused-5-million-deaths/

Facts: Southern "slave codes" = Nazi Nuremberg Laws
Facts: Slaves were owned, forcibly worked and disciplined, same as the Jews
Facts: Nazi leaders who were directly responsible for such actions, like killing of the Jews, were held responsible, put on trial, and executed.........southern plantation owners who MURDERED slaves prior to the Civil War were never arrested, never tried, and some allowed to return back to the place of these murders to "employ" sharecroppers (former slaves)........
I don’t know what to tell you. Dig them up and hang them. It’s been 150 years, bubba. The facts are, because we didn’t behave like emotional idiots, we were able to rebuild a war torn nation very quickly. Close to a half a million white men died fighting for blacks. You want to go back and re-litigate it? Be my guest.

Not even sure what point you’re trying to make at this juncture. I’ve explained my position, you attempted to paint me as something I’m not and failed in your attempt. You haven’t addressed a single point I raised, you certainly haven’t contradicted any point I’ve made, you’re basically just rambling a bunch of nonsensical **** and making non-applicable and hyperbolic attempts at analogies. The latter, you have extremely poor skills with doing in general. They make zero sense to anyone on the board save, Cunty and maybe Keyser. Not exactly the intellectual elite. Combined, you three makeup the intellectual horsepower equivalent of a fvcking yugo.