Hot for teacher....
- Thread starter litespeedhuskerfan_rivals19671
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The teachers are often hamstrung by school policies, administrators that don't care, parents that don't care, and some students themselves that don't care, yet many prepare daily lesson plans and do their best to try to cultivate a positive learning environment. I'm positive there are some bunk teachers out there, but I also know there are a lot of really good ones that work hard at it. They are the only bright spots left of an otherwise mostly horrible education system. And all that, for a fairly mediocre wage too. Teachers should be valued more, not less in my opinion.
fine. but where do the admins come from? and of course nobody cares. school is insanely boring, lame and designed to tamp its subjects down (thanks, teachers).
the fact the best teacher in a given county/district/state has an annual income delta of 0% from the worst teacher in said geo tells you all you need to know
the good teachers would probably love an incentive-based income. the other 99.5% + every union would hate it. why? because they, by and large, don't give a sh*t
this is not personal toward anyone on this board and if you're a good teacher you should agree 100% with what I'm saying (and you should also start your own business or elsewise leave edu asap)
The teacher union is amazingly weak, most teachers never actually "use" the union.
Teachers should be paid on a level similar to firemen, who, for thee most part do nothing all day long but still make 6 figures.
Admins are a problem because MOST only taught for 2 years (or so) and hated teaching and kids.
The real problem are school boards...if you are not an educator you have zero business helping create policy
I am totally fine with incentive based income for teachers and there are schools that do it.
Good points.. I mean administrators just tell people what to do.. they don't have to have any valuable skill that they bring to the table, so the high school dropout theory is probably more or less correct.
I totally agree with an incentive based approach to teacher pay.
One could argue that private teachers or teachers in certain districts might get more pay, and so of course there is more competition for those jobs, and some free market aspect to it.
I do not support unions nor monopolies of any kind.
Oh my yes! And not for the better!!This topic has definitely taken a turn….
I have been a teacher and administrator in both the public and private sectors along with post secondary. I could counter much if not all that has been said. The union is real, it is powerful, I have had to battle it often but it does have limits in my state anyway. Some states, just give in to them.
Like any profession, some are better than others. I have had privilege to work with some of the best educators in the state and they prepared students very well for life and higher education. I have fired teachers who were not doing their job so whoever says that doesn't happen is a fool.
All that said and more not said, the environment in schools is increasingly difficult and I am glad I am retired from that daily grind.
AND unfortunately, no one has been able to come up with a way to reward the good ones while purging the bad ones. Tenure isn't always good. And I've never been able to come up with a sure fire way of measuring true success as every year's class of students is different......
Not to say they weren't around back in the day but our society has been promoting sex of every kind for several years. Barriers barely exist, common sense has given way to lax moral standards. I don't know how old you are, I am 68, but none of what is mainstream now was even in our vocabulary 50 years ago.
And back in day teachers weren’t dumb enough to leave a trail of evidence the way they do now with phones etc
There are some good teachers out there, but a good percentage couldn't get a 90%+ on a standardized graduation test. Good way to get rid of all that rot is to have the teacher license be for 1 or 2 years and make them pass the graduation test, or similar, with a 90%+.
Also, classrooms should have cameras that parents can watch live. Would be good for everyone involved.
no way on the cameras in the classroom. Too many privacy issues in my opinion. Additionally, too many really good teachers are able to teach what needs to be taught but not follow the exact curriculum. In Texas, we are "required" to use specific and in my opinion worthless teaching techniques. When admin comes to observe, you have to use all of the stupid jargon they want you to use. They are only concerned about the STAAR test results down here and not about getting the kids educated. They are failing at both.
I am 100% opposed to the idea of cameras and such for micromanagement purposes.
That reeks of communist, babysitter ideology.
I've seen companies (not education) do this sort of thing and it resulted in the culture changing.. people thought, jeez if you're going to treat me like a kid, then I will act like one. The whole company ran and operated not like a high school, but like a freaking grade school type of mentality. They had more turnover than they could deal with, and couldn't understand why.. but their attitude was re-inforced that the employees were basically children, so they could never see the solution.
You hire the best people you can, then trust them to do their job.
Admins know who on their staff is good vs not good. Hold the administrators accountable for keeping their staff at a high level.
I agree to some degree. However I had a school board member tell me shortly after I graduated (within 7 years) that a teacher I thought was boring and lazy was actually the highest ranked on administration evaluation.
Also it's hard for administration to get rid of poor teachers that have tenure. Unfortunately via negotiated agreements the bad ones get paid just as much as the good ones
I would be utterly shocked that a board member ever saw the evaluation of a teacher. In my nearly 40 years I have never seen it or heard of it. There is no ranking system as well. He could very well be saying the teacher was evaluated highly by the administrator which has nothing to do with your being bored!I agree to some degree. However I had a school board member tell me shortly after I graduated (within 7 years) that a teacher I thought was boring and lazy was actually the highest ranked on administration evaluation.
Also it's hard for administration to get rid of poor teachers that have tenure. Unfortunately via negotiated agreements the bad ones get paid just as much as the good ones
"Also it's hard for administration to get rid of poor teachers that have tenure. Unfortunately via negotiated agreements the bad ones get paid just as much as the good ones."
States vary on tenure laws so it is somewhat variable. Generally, if someone is not going to make it, you have to let them go BEFORE they are offered their 4th contract which would be three years of teaching. I have let teachers go after one year, it just was not going to work but generally you give a teacher the full 2 0r 3 years to prove this is a good fit.
It is not easy to get rid of a poor performing teaching but not impossible either. In many cases, you just begin the evaluation process and they know the handwriting is on the wall. You become mortal enemies and the administrator has to wear the teacher down until they quit or you go through the lengthy and time consuming process.
Few people understand what tenure means. It gives a teacher property rights under the 14th amendment. This means you cannot take property, in this case a job, away from them without due process and that is different in each state. I know what it is here. The other problem is there are not adequate replacement teachers out there so if you have a marginal teacher you most likely keep them and hope to change them especially if they are math, science, language, technology or the like. There is a huge shortage and it is only going to get worse.
That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Absolutely parents should be involved in the policy of what their children are being taught. Just because someone is an educator doesn't mean they all the sudden know what's best. Having no outside involvement leads to big time group think, which isn't good for determining the types of things that our kids should be taught. It also leads to no accountability because there wouldn't be outside oversight.
appreciate the insight from those that have worked in the field.. from the outside, it's easy to blame one or another party, but it seems much more complicated on the inner workings of the education field.I would be utterly shocked that a board member ever saw the evaluation of a teacher. In my nearly 40 years I have never seen it or heard of it. There is no ranking system as well. He could very well be saying the teacher was evaluated highly by the administrator which has nothing to do with your being bored!
"Also it's hard for administration to get rid of poor teachers that have tenure. Unfortunately via negotiated agreements the bad ones get paid just as much as the good ones."
States vary on tenure laws so it is somewhat variable. Generally, if someone is not going to make it, you have to let them go BEFORE they are offered their 4th contract which would be three years of teaching. I have let teachers go after one year, it just was not going to work but generally you give a teacher the full 2 0r 3 years to prove this is a good fit.
It is not easy to get rid of a poor performing teaching but not impossible either. In many cases, you just begin the evaluation process and they know the handwriting is on the wall. You become mortal enemies and the administrator has to wear the teacher down until they quit or you go through the lengthy and time consuming process.
Few people understand what tenure means. It gives a teacher property rights under the 14th amendment. This means you cannot take property, in this case a job, away from them without due process and that is different in each state. I know what it is here. The other problem is there are not adequate replacement teachers out there so if you have a marginal teacher you most likely keep them and hope to change them especially if they are math, science, language, technology or the like. There is a huge shortage and it is only going to get worse.
I'm not Marty Feldman handsome, but my wife digs me.You saying we’re not good-looking ?
********!! You just don't want the administrators to find you talking football every class. LOL
One thing that's missing in schools nowadays, especially at the high school level and even when you get into some of the middle schools:
In some schools, with the exception of the Principal, Asst Principal, PE Teachers, and strategically placed teachers throughout the building have cell phones. The kids NO.
Once a person steps inside that building the cell phone goes dead. Cell phones are such a distraction during the so-called learning periods as well as when the kids are moving classrooms.
The system is producing enough dumbass kids as it is. Any steps that can be taken to get them to listen is a good thing.
Granted 15% are gonna be poor students, or frankly, just not very bright, many troubled students, lots of kids from single parent homes, some kids living in shelters, or getting an early start on drugs, etc. Hell, probably 25% or more don't even want to be there.
We just have a real mess in this country and it all started when parents could no longer swat or whip their asses when they needed to be disciplined. Not whip the piss out of 'em, but enough to get their attention. Sending kids to the Vice-Principals office used to have a stern affect. Not any more, so many of these little ***** just have no respect for authority.
my dad used a belt, on both me and my sister.. after he bruised her pretty good, my mother put a stop to all that. The punishment changed so we had to hold up telephone books with our arms stretched outward, for maybe 20 minutes or more.
I must have been about 10 at the time of when that all changed.. certainly don't agree with whipping kids, but some form of punishment is necessary. The belt probably isn't so bad for boys, but probably not appropriate for girls.
I remember the last time I got the belt and I just stood there, maybe 10 years old, and took it. I didn't make a sound. He wasn't going to get even a tear drop outta me. I was a defiant kid, so it was my way of telling him to f off.
Kids today are probably softer, and the generation before us, probably had it even worse.
Never used a belt, always just my hand. I got whipped all the time as a kid and I remember how degrading it felt, and never wanted to have my kids feel that way. The 90's kids had Nintendo, landlines in their rooms, tvs, friends over, etc, a ton of stuff to take away for a period of time.
I did believe in chewing asses though. Now may adult daughter and her husband never one time spanked either boy. They would have them stand in the corner and "think" about what they just did. Worked like a charm, both turned out awesome. Different methods can work.
I just see so many kids that just have no respect for their parent(s) that it blows my mind. When parents lost the right to discipline their own kids was the beginning of the end. Now the little ***** are just out of control.
Right, just like non-medical people should be in the operating room, right? You want to avoid that groupthink!
And like lawyers should totally ask auto mechanics about filing a motion.
Oh and rocket scientists...they should totally ask stay at home moms for help. Gotta avoid groupthink!
Parents can be involved with that is taught. All they need to do is get into the field of education.
For the most part, not always of course, "bad" teachers leave the field within thee first 3-5 years.I would be utterly shocked that a board member ever saw the evaluation of a teacher. In my nearly 40 years I have never seen it or heard of it. There is no ranking system as well. He could very well be saying the teacher was evaluated highly by the administrator which has nothing to do with your being bored!
"Also it's hard for administration to get rid of poor teachers that have tenure. Unfortunately via negotiated agreements the bad ones get paid just as much as the good ones."
States vary on tenure laws so it is somewhat variable. Generally, if someone is not going to make it, you have to let them go BEFORE they are offered their 4th contract which would be three years of teaching. I have let teachers go after one year, it just was not going to work but generally you give a teacher the full 2 0r 3 years to prove this is a good fit.
It is not easy to get rid of a poor performing teaching but not impossible either. In many cases, you just begin the evaluation process and they know the handwriting is on the wall. You become mortal enemies and the administrator has to wear the teacher down until they quit or you go through the lengthy and time consuming process.
Few people understand what tenure means. It gives a teacher property rights under the 14th amendment. This means you cannot take property, in this case a job, away from them without due process and that is different in each state. I know what it is here. The other problem is there are not adequate replacement teachers out there so if you have a marginal teacher you most likely keep them and hope to change them especially if they are math, science, language, technology or the like. There is a huge shortage and it is only going to get worse.
You also get the short timers who have 2-3 years left and are sort of just phoning it in.
Tenured teachers in some places still get paid but no longer teach and just report to a building from 8-3pm while their "case" is pending, totally inane.
Literally all of the most important skills in life are learned at home
school is just a warehouse for kids & non-producers (teachers, faculty, etc.) to go while productive members of society earn money & pay taxes to keep it afloat
lmao imagine thinking times tables and diagraming sentences is meaningful work. You’re a babysitter working at a steep hourly discount.
Hey...everyone is diagramming sentences all the time in the real world! Ha
I get what you are saying but forced education in America really did not get "enforced" until after WWI, when there was a draft and we found out most teens were not going to school.
If you look at American before WWI and after WWI you will see how much better life become for almost everyone, as education went "up" life got better. It is not so much what you learn (in some cases it is) but it is that you are learning to learn.
Are we babysitters? Sure, and I would love to be paid like one. 10 dollars an hour for each kid. I have about 100 kids a day for about 6 hours. yes please, pay me like a babysitter.
I think what that shutdown of schools showed is that parents do not want to be around their kids all day.
Correct and a good number don't want to be around them after school either.
I work at an elementary school in a low income "suberb" of Houston. We had more kids missing 40 days or more the past 2 years than ever before. Before the shut down we had a couple of problem kids, but nothing like now. A good number of our parents don't require their children to do homework or read for even a little bit each night. So all of the life lessons which should be learned at home, aren't being taught. So the cycle repeats, and grows, because that one low income family is producing 3 or 4 kids who are going to be in the same situation or worse.
Until education is, once again, the focus for our young people, we are going to continue to underperform vs the rest of the world. The best and the brightest aren't coming from the US anymore, they are coming from countries and areas where there is parental involvement and where there is an emphasis on education.
Yeah and sometimes the parent(s) just can't help their kids out all that much so like you said, that cycle continues.
you're right. I also think the never-ending shutdown of schools in many places showed just how much teachers & their reps don't want to be around kids, either
Yep...if you are in a bad school/district and you got to "teach" from home, especially if you were close to retirement, there is no way you are going to want to head back into the classroom.