Covid 8.0 no name calling

[SnohomishRed]

How is a bipartisan commission intended to review our overall response at local, state, federal and private levels, to improve our response to future pandemics a bad thing?

The commission, according to the Democratic lawmakers, would be composed of 10 members, with “the same partisan balance as the 9/11 commissioners,” and would provide “a full accounting to the President, Congress and the American people” related to the coronavirus outbreak, and how federal, state, local governments and the private sector responded to the crisis.

The commission, though, is not expected to be established until February 2021 “hopefully after the pandemic has been overcome and after the presidential election,” they said.

"Pelosi said that committee is designed to address the “here and now,” specifically concerning the allocation of the historic amount of federal funds directed to the economic recovery, and compared it to the committee chaired by then-Sen. Harry Truman in 1941 to investigate waste, fraud and abuse in defense spending in the early days of World War II.

"With over $2 trillion in emergency relief, we need to ensure those dollars are spent carefully and effectively," Pelosi said of the massive stimulus bill Congress already passed to address the coronavirus pandemic.

Both Pelosi and Schiff, who led Democrats' impeachment prosecution efforts, have faced GOP criticism for their plans, amid concerns they would be used to go after the Trump administration."

They will use this as a tool to go after Trump they could care less about 2021

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

How is a bipartisan commission intended to review our overall response at local, state, federal and private levels, to improve our response to future pandemics a bad thing?

The commission, according to the Democratic lawmakers, would be composed of 10 members, with “the same partisan balance as the 9/11 commissioners,” and would provide “a full accounting to the President, Congress and the American people” related to the coronavirus outbreak, and how federal, state, local governments and the private sector responded to the crisis.

The commission, though, is not expected to be established until February 2021 “hopefully after the pandemic has been overcome and after the presidential election,” they said.

No, lets see how long it stays that way.
If it does, credit to those, but currently,it's useless,as we are far from over this.

 

[DudznSudz]

Its the saddest part imo of this identity politics thing. You are forced to take a side. When part of the population for whatever reason lurches so far from the norm in a short period of time( Liberals) then people who do not agree with them line up in complete opposite manner. It was the Liberals who claim to be part of the resistance, Many always claim to want a revolution and supported moving the country to socialism. Ten years ago would we have seen this? Its extreme and sudden and has forced people into either for it or against it. That seems now unfortunately to be true of most things even though I truly believe most people are right down the middle

I think I understand what you're saying. As you all probably can tell, I'm as left as they come, and even I think identity politics is harmful and immoral. It fragments and causes resentments (some of which you are expressing) that honestly are counter-productive.

As for this whole "socialism" canard, that's not true. Nobody wants to replace the capitalist engine that drives literally every world economy (even North Korea, just through black market means). What we want are stronger social safety net programs that help the poor, increase the size and stability of the middle class, and bring us up to the quality of life of our peer nations in what used to be called the "first world." Most people should be for that, and polling suggests most people are, with that number increasing over time.

My generation (millennials) are about to experience our second major recession since we reached employable age. The first one was unbelievably bad; this one is going to be sharp, but hopefully not as long or as debilitating, but we will see. Anyway, to help that, most of us want a single payer healthcare system and student loan debt forgiveness, as we should already have socialized medicine and student loans were always a terrible, terrible way to educate the populace in the first place. This lowers our already stupid burden and allows us to work, buy houses, save, invest, and do all of the things we "should" be doing.

 

[kaz36_rivals189319]

I wouldn’t envy any president who would have to deal with the situation that’s going on right now. It’s pretty unprecedented. That’s why I really doubt anyone that says someone else could do any better or any worse than it’s being handled now. Nobody knows. As president, you have to balance the health of your people and also the health of the economy. It’s a tough balance and I understand that.

Also, I don’t get the people who bitched when Trump announced that they were going after the drug cartels. Just because the government is dealing with the virus doesn’t mean that other aspects of his job stop too. It doesn’t mean that drug cartels are going to stop trying to funnel drugs into the country or that terrorists are going to take a few weeks off. I read somewhere that overdoses from illegal drugs account for 70,000 deaths per year. That’s a significant number that needs addressed too.

I just pray we get past this and hope all is well with the posters here. I love all of you dysfunctional MF’ers.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I think I understand what you're saying. As you all probably can tell, I'm as left as they come, and even I think identity politics is harmful and immoral. It fragments and causes resentments (some of which you are expressing) that honestly are counter-productive.

As for this whole "socialism" canard, that's not true. Nobody wants to replace the capitalist engine that drives literally every world economy (even North Korea, just through black market means). What we want are stronger social safety net programs that help the poor, increase the size and stability of the middle class, and bring us up to the quality of life of our peer nations in what used to be called the "first world." Most people should be for that, and polling suggests most people are, with that number increasing over time.

My generation (millennials) are about to experience our second major recession since we reached employable age. The first one was unbelievably bad; this one is going to be sharp, but hopefully not as long or as debilitating, but we will see. Anyway, to help that, most of us want a single payer healthcare system and student loan debt forgiveness, as we should already have socialized medicine and student loans were always a terrible, terrible way to educate the populace in the first place. This lowers our already stupid burden and allows us to work, buy houses, save, invest, and do all of the things we "should" be doing.

Without getting off track, manufacturing is a middle class solution, and if this virus has pointed anything out, we are woefully short in many areas for our own safety, let alone the greater economic impact manufacturing brings.
The left and right need to adapt to this basic understanding.

 

[jflores]

"You are forced to take a side."

I don't want to pretend to be your momma, but ain't no one holding a gun to your head telling you to be all up in here flaming liberals. Its ok to express an opinion on the situation without rolling up on an attack vector. In fact the mods have made that a condition of posting on Corona politics...its certainly doable.

"It was the Liberals who claim to be part of the resistance"

Perhaps we should dig up some old articles when Obama got elected and the House/Senate GOP vowed to not do a single thing to cooperate with him legislatively or otherwise. Mission #1 was one term president. There's always been resistance bro. The GOP thought Obama was the anti-christ and therefore justified...seems awful similar to progressive feelings about the situation now.

"Many always claim to want a revolution and supported moving the country to socialism. Ten years ago would we have seen this?"

The left has drifted left (shocker I know), but as a lifelong GOP member, my observation is that the GOP has been fearful because in everything but basically abortion and military spending....the GOP has been drifting left. The backstop is gone.

Ten years ago you had GOPers at least think about nuking the countries financial future before they spent $800 billion dollars on bailouts. Now we are upwards of $4 trillion and many more in quantitative easing and there's been zero debate about whether we should do it or not. Falling over themselves to hand out money and be the most generous. Trump ran on not touching entitlements, which is a nail in the coffin for any serious economic argument on eliminating our national debt. The first GOP member in many generations to do so. Also roughly doubled the annual deficit to near a trillion dollars in economic good times. Also said he would replace Obamacare with "something else" even though GOP had been staunchly "no USG interference in healthcare".

GOP is mostly fearful because they are losing control of conservative policy, even when they are in charge. No one has stopped the financial drift left. Trump is giving us our first taste of the UBI system now if it were ever to come to pass.

"I truly believe most people are right down the middle"

I think so too. You take a county full of people one year and they vote for Bush, and the next Obama, and the next Trump. Two things are true:

1. They are not staunch, ideological progressives
2. They are not staunch, ideological conservatives.

So don't believe CNN and Fox when they want to go out there and claim a silent majority or whatever non-sense they are claiming.

They are just looking for the best deal at the time.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I wouldn’t envy any president who would have to deal with the situation that’s going on right now. It’s pretty unprecedented. That’s why I really doubt anyone that says someone else could do any better or any worse than it’s being handled now. Nobody knows. As president, you have to balance the health of your people and also the health of the economy. It’s a tough balance and I understand that.

Also, I don’t get the people who bitched when Trump announced that they were going after the drug cartels. Just because the government is dealing with the virus doesn’t mean that other aspects of his job stop too. It doesn’t mean that drug cartels are going to stop trying to funnel drugs into the country or that terrorists are going to take a few weeks off. I read somewhere that overdoses from illegal drugs account for 70,000 deaths per year. That’s a significant number that needs addressed too.

I just pray we get past this and hope all is well with the posters here. I love all of you dysfunctional MF’ers.

I love Fauci, though some may think otherwise, but he too was very fallible,as were the models etc, yet, we are quick to forgive. He's the expert, but the numbers have bounced all over.
We simply don't know what we don't know, that includes our president, our governors etc.

 

[MOHUSKER]

Its the saddest part imo of this identity politics thing. You are forced to take a side. When part of the population for whatever reason lurches so far from the norm in a short period of time( Liberals) then people who do not agree with them line up in complete opposite manner. It was the Liberals who claim to be part of the resistance, Many always claim to want a revolution and supported moving the country to socialism. Ten years ago would we have seen this? Its extreme and sudden and has forced people into either for it or against it. That seems now unfortunately to be true of most things even though I truly believe most people are right down the middle

10 years ago people were claiming Obama was driving us to socialism. At the same time the left was criticizing him for not going hard left.

Now the Democratic primary has rejected the hard left candidate and is pushing a more centrist candidate.

We could point to the extreme right who fights for fascism and extremism, but I will try to stick to the socialism boogeyman the far right uses as a scare tactic.

The socialism most are okay with in America is actually a market economy with some core infrastructure taken care of by the government. Roads, schools and healthcare would be three key pieces.

This pandemic has shown that we have some areas of concern with healthcare agility in the face of pandemics and some fragile elements of society that have been hit hard (many of these were also hit hard in 07-11). How do we strengthen these things? The private sector doesn’t seem interested in or capable of doing it, so should we just ignore it and hope it gets better next time?

https://www.cnbc.com/id/47678760

 

[DudznSudz]

Without getting off track, manufacturing is a middle class solution, and if this virus has pointed anything out, we are woefully short in many areas for our own safety, let alone the greater economic impact manufacturing brings.
The left and right need to adapt to this basic understanding.

Oh I totally agree with this. We should have followed the German model (protect your own workers) or the Italian model (specialize in luxury product manufacturing) rather than ship all our jobs overseas for shareholders to benefit. You are 100% right about this.

 

[MOHUSKER]

"Pelosi said that committee is designed to address the “here and now,” specifically concerning the allocation of the historic amount of federal funds directed to the economic recovery, and compared it to the committee chaired by then-Sen. Harry Truman in 1941 to investigate waste, fraud and abuse in defense spending in the early days of World War II.

"With over $2 trillion in emergency relief, we need to ensure those dollars are spent carefully and effectively," Pelosi said of the massive stimulus bill Congress already passed to address the coronavirus pandemic.

Both Pelosi and Schiff, who led Democrats' impeachment prosecution efforts, have faced GOP criticism for their plans, amid concerns they would be used to go after the Trump administration."

They will use this as a tool to go after Trump they could care less about 2021

Ah geez, read the article slowly. Pelosi wants oversight into spending for the CARES act, yes. How is this different than people who want drug testing for welfare recipients or oversight to ensure that federal funds don’t go to abortions or churches?

In a separate act, people want a commission AFTER the pandemic and after the election to figure out how we get better. Those aren’t the same thing, not even close.

 

[DudznSudz]

10 years ago people were claiming Obama was driving us to socialism. At the same time the left was criticizing him for not going hard left.

Now the Democratic primary has rejected the hard left candidate and is pushing a more centrist candidate.

We could point to the extreme right who fights for fascism and extremism, but I will try to stick to the socialism boogeyman the far right uses as a scare tactic.

The socialism most are okay with in America is actually a market economy with some core infrastructure taken care of by the government. Roads, schools and healthcare would be three key pieces.

This pandemic has shown that we have some areas of concern with healthcare agility in the face of pandemics and some fragile elements of society that have been hit hard (many of these were also hit hard in 07-11). How do we strengthen these things? The private sector doesn’t seem interested in or capable of doing it, so should we just ignore it and hope it gets better next time?

https://www.cnbc.com/id/47678760

Yup! And actually, that candidate has helped steer the Democratic party to the left, and he will continue to do so, because people are hungry for that kind of change in this country.

 

[kaz36_rivals189319]

I love Fauci, though some may think otherwise, but he too was very fallible,as were the models etc, yet, we are quick to forgive. He's the expert, but the numbers have bounced all over.
We simply don't know what we don't know, that includes our president, our governors etc.

I think a lot of people are fallible in this. It is pretty unprecedented. Fauci isn’t always right. There are probably doctors that know more than he does too. Heck, I know Ricketts was taking crap for not following when Fauci wanted everyone to shelter at home, but knew that Rickets was also in contact with Drs at UNMC, who may very well know as much or more than Fauci. He’s not the know all, be all with this, but has become the face of it. People need to understand that he’s not always right and is like a lot of doctors who will error on the side of caution.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Oh I totally agree with this. We should have followed the German model (protect your own workers) or the Italian model (specialize in luxury product manufacturing) rather than ship all our jobs overseas for shareholders to benefit. You are 100% right about this.

This and many other areas.
The left and right are the folks who're going to get us through this, and the best of those deserve our respect and approval.
Sometimes we're forced to realize we can't just easily throw things away, that time is now.

 

[CheeseRunza_rivals]

You must have missed the first couple covid threads.

I guess so, because I don’t recall seeing anyone post that they thought the people dying from cv19 were expendable and were going to die anyway. My interpretation and my contention is that if we aren’t careful with managing this lockdown and its impacts on the economy, that the deaths on the back end might be greater than the lives saved on the front end. There is a tipping point somewhere on the lockdown timeline where this will be true. I have no doubt that lives are being saved by the lockdown in the short term, and that is good, but I have seen studies previously that indicate a direct correlation between the global cost of food and civil unrest (wars, riots, violent crime, etc).

I get that most on here have stable jobs that aren’t impacted by the lockdown and don’t really care about those that aren’t so lucky. I’m guessing that many don’t have children either, at least not of an age where the future prospects are of a concern. I have 4 kids (1 in high school, 1 under grad, 1 medical school, 1 graduate school). The 3 out of high school have lost their part time jobs and their prospect for summer jobs which they were counting on to help pay for their rent and food. Luckily we can help them out right now, but I fear for their future prospects in a year or two, when they enter a job market with no jobs available. They know many kids who are graduating this year (undergrad and grad school) who are seeing that no one is hiring.

 

[jflores]

I think a lot of people are fallible in this. It is pretty unprecedented. Fauci isn’t always right. There are probably doctors that know more than he does too. Heck, I know Ricketts was taking crap for not following when Fauci wanted everyone to shelter at home, but knew that Rickets was also in contact with Drs at UNMC, who may very well know as much or more than Fauci. He’s not the know all, be all with this, but has become the face of it. People need to understand that he’s not always right and is like a lot of doctors who will error on the side of caution.

I've posted this several times, but the doctors at UNMC are pretty much aligned with Fauci. Where Rickett's has distinguished himself is he's taken it upon him as political risk to assess his situation and chart a way forward that makes sense to him.

The folks upset that Trump listens to much to Fauci really need to look no further than Rickett's. People in Nebraska aren't cursing Rupp from UNMC about not caring about them vis a vis the economic situation because Rickett's has been a filter and made good choices. But if for some reason Nebraska were to turn into NYC (its not) Rickett's would take the heat for his decision. Trump has been trying to avoid that, IMO, in an election year by just pointing to the pros.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I think a lot of people are fallible in this. It is pretty unprecedented. Fauci isn’t always right. There are probably doctors that know more than he does too. Heck, I know Ricketts was taking crap for not following when Fauci wanted everyone to shelter at home, but knew that Rickets was also in contact with Drs at UNMC, who may very well know as much or more than Fauci. He’s not the know all, be all with this, but has become the face of it. People need to understand that he’s not always right and is like a lot of doctors who will error on the side of caution.

Fauci just mentioned Nebraska,midwest,unlocked down states, talking to their governors, so, he's learning.

 

[MOHUSKER]

No, lets see how long it stays that way.
If it does, credit to those, but currently,it's useless,as we are far from over this.

I think getting them going closer to the end makes a better model while the memories are fresh, before emails and info get shredded or lost or deleted :Cool:

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I think getting them going closer to the end makes a better model while the memories are fresh, before emails and info get shredded or lost or deleted :Cool:

If it's pertinent, but this is a fact finding attempt on what worked, and what didn't,what we were prepared for, and what we weren't.
To benefit the people. End of story.

 

[jflores]

I think a lot of people are fallible in this. It is pretty unprecedented. Fauci isn’t always right. There are probably doctors that know more than he does too. Heck, I know Ricketts was taking crap for not following when Fauci wanted everyone to shelter at home, but knew that Rickets was also in contact with Drs at UNMC, who may very well know as much or more than Fauci. He’s not the know all, be all with this, but has become the face of it. People need to understand that he’s not always right and is like a lot of doctors who will error on the side of caution.

The Drs at UNMC are responsible for the new Federal guidance about masks

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

The Drs at UNMC are responsible for the new Federal guidance about masks

Gee, that went against Birx and Fauci.

 

[jflores]

Gee, that went against Birx and Fauci.

It is indeed. I don't think I've ever claimed he knows everything. He is in a leadership type of position though so his recommendations carry great weight whether they are wrong or not.

In this case, UNMC is more restrictive that Fauci.

Edit: My personal belief is that no one knows everything. You could put Rupp or the guy from Hopkins or the guy from UW up there and they'd all get good parts wrong. Despite his faults, Fauci and the like have maintained excellent approval.

 

[kaz36_rivals189319]

I've posted this several times, but the doctors at UNMC are pretty much aligned with Fauci. Where Rickett's has distinguished himself is he's taken it upon him as political risk to assess his situation and chart a way forward that makes sense to him.

The folks upset that Trump listens to much to Fauci really need to look no further than Rickett's. People in Nebraska aren't cursing Rupp from UNMC about not caring about them vis a vis the economic situation because Rickett's has been a filter and made good choices. But if for some reason Nebraska were to turn into NYC (its not) Rickett's would take the heat for his decision. Trump has been trying to avoid that, IMO, in an election year by just pointing to the pros.

Don’t forget that Fauci specifically mentions Nebraska and Iowa the other day and that what they are doing really isn’t that much different to what other states are doing.
And I’m sure that Fauci and UNMC doctors are on the same page. It doesn’t mean they don’t differ on certain aspects. All I know is these people are a hell of a lot smarter than all of us put together here. I have a good feeling they will figure something out sooner than later.

 

[GBRforLife1]

I think I understand what you're saying. As you all probably can tell, I'm as left as they come, and even I think identity politics is harmful and immoral. It fragments and causes resentments (some of which you are expressing) that honestly are counter-productive.

As for this whole "socialism" canard, that's not true. Nobody wants to replace the capitalist engine that drives literally every world economy (even North Korea, just through black market means). What we want are stronger social safety net programs that help the poor, increase the size and stability of the middle class, and bring us up to the quality of life of our peer nations in what used to be called the "first world." Most people should be for that, and polling suggests most people are, with that number increasing over time.

My generation (millennials) are about to experience our second major recession since we reached employable age. The first one was unbelievably bad; this one is going to be sharp, but hopefully not as long or as debilitating, but we will see. Anyway, to help that, most of us want a single payer healthcare system and student loan debt forgiveness, as we should already have socialized medicine and student loans were always a terrible, terrible way to educate the populace in the first place. This lowers our already stupid burden and allows us to work, buy houses, save, invest, and do all of the things we "should" be doing.

I really dont know why the liberals insist on changing the conversation to strictly politics. I thought it was supposed to be political topics related to the China virus.

 

[MOHUSKER]

I guess so, because I don’t recall seeing anyone post that they thought the people dying from cv19 were expendable and were going to die anyway. My interpretation and my contention is that if we aren’t careful with managing this lockdown and its impacts on the economy, that the deaths on the back end might be greater than the lives saved on the front end. There is a tipping point somewhere on the lockdown timeline where this will be true. I have no doubt that lives are being saved by the lockdown in the short term, and that is good, but I have seen studies previously that indicate a direct correlation between the global cost of food and civil unrest (wars, riots, violent crime, etc).

I get that most on here have stable jobs that aren’t impacted by the lockdown and don’t really care about those that aren’t so lucky. I’m guessing that many don’t have children either, at least not of an age where the future prospects are of a concern. I have 4 kids (1 in high school, 1 under grad, 1 medical school, 1 graduate school). The 3 out of high school have lost their part time jobs and their prospect for summer jobs which they were counting on to help pay for their rent and food. Luckily we can help them out right now, but I fear for their future prospects in a year or two, when they enter a job market with no jobs available. They know many kids who are graduating this year (undergrad and grad school) who are seeing that no one is hiring.

Covid 6.0

 

[SnohomishRed]

"You are forced to take a side."

I don't want to pretend to be your momma, but ain't no one holding a gun to your head telling you to be all up in here flaming liberals. Its ok to express an opinion on the situation without rolling up on an attack vector. In fact the mods have made that a condition of posting on Corona politics...its certainly doable.

"It was the Liberals who claim to be part of the resistance"

Perhaps we should dig up some old articles when Obama got elected and the House/Senate GOP vowed to not do a single thing to cooperate with him legislatively or otherwise. Mission #1 was one term president. There's always been resistance bro. The GOP thought Obama was the anti-christ and therefore justified...seems awful similar to progressive feelings about the situation now.

"Many always claim to want a revolution and supported moving the country to socialism. Ten years ago would we have seen this?"

The left has drifted left (shocker I know), but as a lifelong GOP member, my observation is that the GOP has been fearful because in everything but basically abortion and military spending....the GOP has been drifting left. The backstop is gone.

Ten years ago you had GOPers at least think about nuking the countries financial future before they spent $800 billion dollars on bailouts. Now we are upwards of $4 trillion and many more in quantitative easing and there's been zero debate about whether we should do it or not. Falling over themselves to hand out money and be the most generous. Trump ran on not touching entitlements, which is a nail in the coffin for any serious economic argument on eliminating our national debt. The first GOP member in many generations to do so. Also roughly doubled the annual deficit to near a trillion dollars in economic good times. Also said he would replace Obamacare with "something else" even though GOP had been staunchly "no USG interference in healthcare".

GOP is mostly fearful because they are losing control of conservative policy, even when they are in charge. No one has stopped the financial drift left. Trump is giving us our first taste of the UBI system now if it were ever to come to pass.

"I truly believe most people are right down the middle"

I think so too. You take a county full of people one year and they vote for Bush, and the next Obama, and the next Trump. Two things are true:

1. They are not staunch, ideological progressives
2. They are not staunch, ideological conservatives.

So don't believe CNN and Fox when they want to go out there and claim a silent majority or whatever non-sense they are claiming.

They are just looking for the best deal at the time.

Look I really dont care that people have different opinions in fact the opposite. The last 3-4 years has been different however the main stream media and even the left politicians simply wrote off people with conservative ideas. They were called deplorable and a host of other issues. There were no marches when Obama was elected, there was no "Not my president" stuff or Antifa or the non-stop attempt by the media to tear down a man who was voted in the election. The man who conservatives voted for was wrongfully impeached and the democratic left has been attempting to discredit an election in anyway possible.

Obama was not treated the same as Trump, in spite of the IRS scandal, his spying on a presidential candidate and other issues. I truly feel Trump is trying to help I do not feel that way about Pelosi

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

It is indeed. I don't think I've ever claimed he knows everything. He is in a leadership type of position though so his recommendations carry great weight whether they are wrong or not.

In this case, UNMC is more restrictive that Fauci.

Each has their place, and only strengthens our founders wisdom and allowing our governors to govern.

If people have to find fault, they need to find it later.

I'm happy to hear Fauci was on the phone with the non locked down states, as each state,locked or not, has its own unique position in these times.
Giving advice comes with sharing and learning, good for all of them in their efforts.

 

[jflores]

Don’t forget that Fauci specifically mentions Nebraska and Iowa the other day and that what they are doing really isn’t that much different to what other states are doing.
And I’m sure that Fauci and UNMC doctors are on the same page. It doesn’t mean they don’t differ on certain aspects. All I know is these people are a hell of a lot smarter than all of us put together here. I have a good feeling they will figure something out sooner than later.

Yah I mean, Nebraska is doing what maryland was doing a couple weeks ago. Shutting down restaurants and moving to takeout and whatever. The only difference between the shut down order and what we were doing before is the enforcement of fines and whatever.

So its not like Rickett's is way off in left field. And even he has made appeals, like every other governor, to have citizens comply so he doesn't have to go more draconian.

 

[GBRforLife1]

I guess so, because I don’t recall seeing anyone post that they thought the people dying from cv19 were expendable and were going to die anyway. My interpretation and my contention is that if we aren’t careful with managing this lockdown and its impacts on the economy, that the deaths on the back end might be greater than the lives saved on the front end. There is a tipping point somewhere on the lockdown timeline where this will be true. I have no doubt that lives are being saved by the lockdown in the short term, and that is good, but I have seen studies previously that indicate a direct correlation between the global cost of food and civil unrest (wars, riots, violent crime, etc).

I get that most on here have stable jobs that aren’t impacted by the lockdown and don’t really care about those that aren’t so lucky. I’m guessing that many don’t have children either, at least not of an age where the future prospects are of a concern. I have 4 kids (1 in high school, 1 under grad, 1 medical school, 1 graduate school). The 3 out of high school have lost their part time jobs and their prospect for summer jobs which they were counting on to help pay for their rent and food. Luckily we can help them out right now, but I fear for their future prospects in a year or two, when they enter a job market with no jobs available. They know many kids who are graduating this year (undergrad and grad school) who are seeing that no one is hiring.

Expendable, no. But if you don't think many of the 80+ year olds who had heart disease and diabetes etc etc etc were going to die youre mistaken. Does comorbidity mean anything to you?

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Look I really dont care that people have different opinions in fact the opposite. The last 3-4 years has been different however the main stream media and even the left politicians simply wrote off people with conservative ideas. They were called deplorable and a host of other issues. There were no marches when Obama was elected, there was no "Not my president" stuff or Antifa or the non-stop attempt by the media to tear down a man who was voted in the election. The man who conservatives voted for was wrongfully impeached and the democratic left has been attempting to discredit an election in anyway possible.

Obama was not treated the same as Trump, in spite of the IRS scandal, his spying on a presidential candidate and other issues. I truly feel Trump is trying to help I do not feel that way about Pelosi

But, he wasn't impeached, nor was he a collaborator.
History will show this.

As for now, we have better,more difficult and trying as well as important things to figure out.
If the committee sticks to just helps, no pointing fingers, its actually good work, if not, shame on them all.

 

[MOHUSKER]

Look I really dont care that people have different opinions in fact the opposite. The last 3-4 years has been different however the main stream media and even the left politicians simply wrote off people with conservative ideas. They were called deplorable and a host of other issues. There were no marches when Obama was elected, there was no "Not my president" stuff or Antifa or the non-stop attempt by the media to tear down a man who was voted in the election. The man who conservatives voted for was wrongfully impeached and the democratic left has been attempting to discredit an election in anyway possible.

Obama was not treated the same as Trump, in spite of the IRS scandal, his spying on a presidential candidate and other issues. I truly feel Trump is trying to help I do not feel that way about Pelosi

Are you kidding me?! There was the whole birther movement, the claims he was a Muslim, he was sworn in on the Quran. Corrupt because he was from Illinois, Trump called for him to step down because of his Ebola handling (irony). Let’s also not forget that Trump called Obama the “founder of ISIS”.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

One thing we learned, bent those early models.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-vo...ents-can-be-difference-between-life-and-death

 

[Headcard]

I really dont know why the liberals insist on changing the conversation to strictly politics. I thought it was supposed to be political topics related to the China virus.

Pretty sure it wasn’t a “liberal” that started the discussion you are referring to.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Are you kidding me?! There was the whole birther movement, the claims he was a Muslim, he was sworn in on the Quran. Corrupt because he was from Illinois, Trump called for him to step down because of his Ebola handling (irony). Let’s also not forget that Trump called Obama the “founder of ISIS”.

They existed on the fringe, but wasn't a backed by msm scenario, like antifa was ok to use violence type thing.
It was more a ongoing joke, or worse, used as you say.

I do remember the joke
If Trump created a cure for disease, the left would deny it. Chloroquine?

I'm not a finger pointer, those who are are living on the fringe imo.

 

[Headcard]

I guess so, because I don’t recall seeing anyone post that they thought the people dying from cv19 were expendable and were going to die anyway. My interpretation and my contention is that if we aren’t careful with managing this lockdown and its impacts on the economy, that the deaths on the back end might be greater than the lives saved on the front end. There is a tipping point somewhere on the lockdown timeline where this will be true. I have no doubt that lives are being saved by the lockdown in the short term, and that is good, but I have seen studies previously that indicate a direct correlation between the global cost of food and civil unrest (wars, riots, violent crime, etc).

I get that most on here have stable jobs that aren’t impacted by the lockdown and don’t really care about those that aren’t so lucky. I’m guessing that many don’t have children either, at least not of an age where the future prospects are of a concern. I have 4 kids (1 in high school, 1 under grad, 1 medical school, 1 graduate school). The 3 out of high school have lost their part time jobs and their prospect for summer jobs which they were counting on to help pay for their rent and food. Luckily we can help them out right now, but I fear for their future prospects in a year or two, when they enter a job market with no jobs available. They know many kids who are graduating this year (undergrad and grad school) who are seeing that no one is hiring.

It was a very common theme of the first corona threads on here, at least from one poster (repeatedly).

I think we all agree with you on the economy and the future for our children. You don’t have to be out of work, to appreciate those issues.

Take Care

 

[jflores]

Look I really dont care that people have different opinions in fact the opposite. The last 3-4 years has been different however the main stream media and even the left politicians simply wrote off people with conservative ideas. They were called deplorable and a host of other issues. There were no marches when Obama was elected, there was no "Not my president" stuff or Antifa or the non-stop attempt by the media to tear down a man who was voted in the election. The man who conservatives voted for was wrongfully impeached and the democratic left has been attempting to discredit an election in anyway possible.

Obama was not treated the same as Trump, in spite of the IRS scandal, his spying on a presidential candidate and other issues. I truly feel Trump is trying to help I do not feel that way about Pelosi

You can still buy "Not My President" buttons with Obama's picture on them on Amazon. Of course the liberal media is not going to flame Obama, not sure why anyone expects otherwise. Perhaps I should ask you to sing the praises of the Hawkeye football program? Supposedly the Right has money cuz they know bizness...where's the right media outlets besides Fox?

I've had countless debates with folks about how the right should position itself. The whole deplorables thing sort of rolls into that because its the number 1 thing holding the GOP back IMO, the fear of being called names by the media.

Back in the Dubya administration I would say something like "Bush should do this" and some other guy would be like "well yah, but then the media will roast him for it".

I don't know how others were raised, but right it right. If the media is going to call names its going to call names. You can't constantly make what you feel are incorrect or outright wrong calls for fear of being made fun of. The GOP doesn't have a platform if it refuses to implement it for fear of being teased.

Trump's campaign showed this was possible to overcome. He was made fun of and tore down in every possible way and won anyway. He's sort of dropped the ball at the goal line though as a good bit of his base is upset he lost that fire apparently when he finally got in office and he started letting a more liberal Javanka run the show, told Pelosi and McConnell to just make deals so he could sign them, and now handing large chunks of policy direction to Fauci.

But yah the general point is the right has to stop being so darned scared of their own shadow. If they don't implement their policies, Democrats surely won't.

 

[CheeseRunza_rivals]

Expendable, no. But if you don't think many of the 80+ year olds who had heart disease and diabetes etc etc etc were going to die youre mistaken. Does comorbidity mean anything to you?

What are you talking about? I didn't take a side one way or another regarding if it is "ok" that those with comorbidities are dying of cv19. I just said i don't recall anyone explicitly saying that. But if someone did, I think I can guess who it was.

 

[jflores]

Its not really a "you know what" measuring contest. McCain had to step in as a Presidential candidate and defend the honor of his opponent from his own people.

Both Trump and Obama were treated far below the dignity that President's should have been treated. Each side seems to believe that admitting that is tantamount to treason.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Trump covering for mexico in oil production cuts
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/mexico-ends-oil-standoff-with-opec

 

[jflores]

I'm actually quite curious to see what happens post Trump. There's no one I can see on the horizon that will have sort of the Cult of Trump factor.

Josh Hawley has similar ideas to Trump, but I highly doubt people are going to give him the benefit of the doubt of a bunch of unforced errors and backtracks and label it 4D chess. And he doesn't certainly have a billion bucks to lean on to make the case he's just a flat out genius cuz he's rich. He also doesn't have Trump's speaking style.

 

[gw2kpro]

Each has their place, and only strengthens our founders wisdom and allowing our governors to govern.

Bingo. Even Gavin Newsom is figuring it out

https://news.yahoo.com/gavin-newsom-declares-california-nation-160012325.html

Hope he's not thinking he's blazing some new trail, though.

There were a bunch of folks who figured out things like States' rights (and therefore States' responsibilities) in regards to this nation back in the 1700's. Way before all us educated folk figured it out. Heck, that might have even been before the internet.