Covid 8.0 no name calling

[MOHUSKER]

My point exactly

• Fauci is as far as I know a decent man and I am sure a good Dr - so what? that is not the point the point is everyone on the left especially is taking his word as policy. When he says we need to keep things locked down, I am sure he is right from a virus standpoint but from an overall affect on our country he has no clue. Yet people are taking his statement as policy and if Trump dares to say maybe we should open things up a bit he is a mass murderer.
• WHO - Not saying they're perfect ??? Really? the numbers being floated put there is that 95% of this could have been avoided if China hadf been honest and/or the WHO had not been their pawns. How many have died ? - I think at the very least it is time for a major shakeup or if that is not possible defund it and form something completely new - If they can not be relied on to be honest when there is a pandemic they have no useful purpose for America

Regarding Fauci, is your position that because America trusts him he should be removed? Your baseless theory that he is a hero of the left is laughable.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol.../dr-fauci-impresses-republicans-and-democrats

Perhaps most importantly, the positive numbers were nearly identical among Americans across the political spectrum. Among those who had seen or heard news of Fauci, his “excellent” or “good” rating was only a percentage point higher among Democrats (85%) than among Republicans (84%). Just 15 percent of Democrats and 16 percent of Republicans rated Fauci negatively. Fauci’s rating was slightly lower among Independents – 74 percent positive, 26 percent negative.

As far as your tear it down mantra of the WHO...good luck with that.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

The man has been trusted to be the voice for public health by Reagan, both Bush’s, Clinton, Obama and now Trump. He has a 78% approval rating to 7% disapproval. He is about as no spin as it gets in a political position from what I’ve seen.

Regarding the WHO, we need it to be functional and need to cooperate as much as possible. Trying to understand and manage viruses coming from all over the globe without them is not going to work. Not saying they’re perfect, but the more we can drive politics out of public health the better outcomes we can achieve.

We will have to see when the policies of the health of the economy passes up the health of the people in his mind.
I say in his mind because he's overly focused on peoples health vs peoples futures. You can give treatment , you can create a vaccine, but the warnings should be very apparent to him, his colleagues can't get enough PPEs, well, people make them, people ship them, people gather the cotten, get the oil, stock them in stores,put them in trucks,or in ships etc.
He wants his colleagues safe? The economy has to open up, and if he comes down on the wrong side of this, his colleagues aren't so stupid, so, no popularity poll is of worth if he steps where he doesn't belong.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Eventually, sure...you would find the downward slope of the curve. The same argument could be made about the economy also, do nothing and it will eventually bounce back anyway.

But the facts show that the measures are reducing spread, data indicates the economy started going downhill before “lockdowns” started. The “shining star” of doing nothing is also seeing huge financial impact and has their politicians scrambling to enact laws that let them issue their own “lockdowns”.

It seems logical to claim doing “nothing” would mean no economic impact, but that’s a pipe dream, nothing operates in a vacuum, the economy was going to have substantial negative impact regardless of “lockdown” orders. To argue otherwise shows ignorance to human behaviors and how the world economies function.

Ok, so,people are just going to have money? Not be afraid and just pop up at work once called?
Businesses wont be shut down, some forever? Businesses themselves wont be cautious?

Do businesses just go full tilt? But customers may be too leary to show up?

Business will be a slow ramp up,period,no matter what, and many wont have made it through this, and those jobs are lost, and entrepreneur activity will be tepid. So, no new jobs to replace the many lost.

We need to quit arguing over spilled milk, and get back to work asap before business gets too sick.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

dr fauci is, like every doctor, extremely conservative when it comes to risk mitigation. he literally said we should never go back to shaking hands. ever.

his advice should be weighed alongside economists who are also experts in their fields when it comes to making policy.

Think about that, sooooo, heres his brilliance.
We should never touch a doorknob, a handle,a public bathroom,a store counter etc etc etc.
That was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard,very stupid.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Regarding Fauci, is your position that because America trusts him he should be removed? Your baseless theory that he is a hero of the left is laughable.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol.../dr-fauci-impresses-republicans-and-democrats

Perhaps most importantly, the positive numbers were nearly identical among Americans across the political spectrum. Among those who had seen or heard news of Fauci, his “excellent” or “good” rating was only a percentage point higher among Democrats (85%) than among Republicans (84%). Just 15 percent of Democrats and 16 percent of Republicans rated Fauci negatively. Fauci’s rating was slightly lower among Independents – 74 percent positive, 26 percent negative.

As far as your tear it down mantra of the WHO...good luck with that.

Call me an independent then, but dont shake his hand, or touch anything anyone else has touched too.

 

[Husker4real_rivals373787]

The fact that we break down Dr. Fauci’s approval rating by political affiliation might say something about our society. Not sure what, but I don’t think it’s good. Do people really disregard the advice of a medical professional based on political ideology? If you’re a democrat and the nurse installing your ventilator is a republican, do you refuse to let her do it?

In any case, I thought there was a really good question raised by Mark Levin. I don’t know who he is or what his credentials are. It doesn’t matter. It was a good question. I believe he is asking if our current policies are eliminating the herd immunity that is presumably necessary to stop the virus. Very reasonable question that is politically agnostic. There should be a politically agnostic answer.

 

[John_J_Rambo_rivals315142]

17M and counting have applied for first-time unemployment benefits in the US.

That’s a lot of lives changed forever.

 

[MOHUSKER]

The fact that we break down Dr. Fauci’s approval rating by political affiliation might say something about our society. Not sure what, but I don’t think it’s good. Do people really disregard the advice of a medical professional based on political ideology? If you’re a democrat and the nurse installing your ventilator is a republican, do you refuse to let her do it?

In any case, I thought there was a really good question raised by Mark Levin. I don’t know who he is or what his credentials are. It doesn’t matter. It was a good question. I believe he is asking if our current policies are eliminating the herd immunity that is presumably necessary to stop the virus. Very reasonable question that is politically agnostic. There should be a politically agnostic answer.

SARS and MERS are controlled or gone and we have neither herd immunity or a vaccine, same with Ebola. Does it matter how we get the virus under control, or do we just need to get it under control?

 

[jflores]

Anyone get stimulated yet??








($$$$) Get your minds out of the gutter!!

No. Trump promised me the gubmint money and I still need to pick out something nice

 

[jflores]

We will have to see when the policies of the health of the economy passes up the health of the people in his mind.
I say in his mind because he's overly focused on peoples health vs peoples futures. You can give treatment , you can create a vaccine, but the warnings should be very apparent to him, his colleagues can't get enough PPEs, well, people make them, people ship them, people gather the cotten, get the oil, stock them in stores,put them in trucks,or in ships etc.
He wants his colleagues safe? The economy has to open up, and if he comes down on the wrong side of this, his colleagues aren't so stupid, so, no popularity poll is of worth if he steps where he doesn't belong.

You and the shock jock right keep telling him to stay in his lane. But here you want him to consider the economy.

If you weren't aware his lane is medicine. If you are unhappy with the economic choice squawk at Trump and Kudlow

 

[MOHUSKER]

17M and counting have applied for first-time unemployment benefits in the US.

That’s a lot of lives changed forever.

Economists have long said lots of Americans were going to lose their jobs through automation and efficiency gains. Many of these people were going to lose jobs anyway.

https://futurism.com/new-chart-proves-automation-serious-threat

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

SARS and MERS are controlled or gone and we have neither herd immunity or a vaccine, same with Ebola. Does it matter how we get the virus under control, or do we just need to get it under control?

We didn't. A thousand dead from sars one before we did one thing.
Those two were short lived because of their design/makeup, they were hard to get, they killed and effected their victims right away at a high impact, creating a less infectious virus to isolate its victims doesn't make for a pandemic.
It wasn't anything we did at all.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

You and the shock jock right keep telling him to stay in his lane. But here you want him to consider the economy.

If you weren't aware his lane is medicine. If you are unhappy with the economic choice squawk at Trump and Kudlow

No, he needs to stay in his lane. I'm stating common sense, he should know these things, think before he opens his mouth out of his lane, or consider what common sense in his lane should be teaching him.

 

[Husker4real_rivals373787]

SARS and MERS are controlled or gone and we have neither herd immunity or a vaccine, same with Ebola. Does it matter how we get the virus under control, or do we just need to get it under control?

Excellent questions. I don’t know the answers, other than I would say getting Coronavirus under control seems necessary to me. The best methods to do that is beyond my area of expertise.

 

[jflores]

No, he needs to stay in his lane. I'm stating common sense, he should know these things, think before he opens his mouth out of his lane, or consider what common sense in his lane should be teaching him.

Again, two posts above you said he should consider the economy. The economy is not his lane.

That is not common sense what you just asked him to do.

 

[MOHUSKER]

We didn't. A thousand dead from sars one before we did one thing.
Those two were short lived because of their design/makeup, they were hard to get, they killed and effected their victims right away at a high impact, creating a less infectious virus to isolate its victims doesn't make for a pandemic.
It wasn't anything we did at all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870828/

Our finding that the reproductive number only began to decline in mid-April, going below the threshold of 1 on 23 April, suggests that control measures in Beijing were fairly ineffective for 5 weeks after the first cases. However, once political attention was given to the outbreak, evidenced by the initiation of contact tracing on 9 April, and the order for SARS to be notifiable on 10 April, transmission (indicated by Rt) immediately began to decline. Shortly after the introduction of fever clinics, and training in use of PPE in hospitals in mid-April, Rt fell below the critical threshold of 1 (i.e. under control). Therefore, our results suggest that the most important factor in the control of SARS in Beijing as elsewhere was strong political commitment and a coordinated response. When the government finally announced on 20 April the scope of the ongoing SARS epidemic, the disease was already almost under control (Rt was just above 1).

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Economists have long said lots of Americans were going to lose their jobs through automation and efficiency gains. Many of these people were going to lose jobs anyway.

https://futurism.com/new-chart-proves-automation-serious-threat

Umm, so, we wake ip and robots have the materials dug from the ground, processed, refined, made into a useable configuration to be used to make one part of a certain material,of which there are many,which all need these processes done before we have parts, they will need to be packages and shipped throughout all processes, then assembled,tested,then repackaged and shipped, installed,tested,hooked up.

Now, lets get into design.....
Just dont go there

 

[jflores]

The fundamental problem is that Trump is wanting to own as little of this as possible. He wants to be able to point to "the professionals" and say "hey this is what they said to do". He thinks it'll help him politicially. Which in a way it will.

But its going to make his base mad because he's abdicating part of the Presidency to a set of career govt employees.

The way it should work is that everyone on his Task Force has an opinion/recommendation. Trump adjudicates the opinions and chooses the best way forward. If Fauci or Birx or the Surgeon General is way out in left field, Trump is the filter, he ignores them and moves on (like pretty much how any of us run business when we get a wacky employee).

When Trump lock, stock and barrel goes along with Fauci and Birx, he's endorsing what they are saying and effectively making it US policy.

The only way to fix this morass of opinions is for Trump to give Kudlow more weight, or to just overrule them all and take political ownership of the risk when he can't point fingers anymore.

Edit: And just giving Kudlow more weight may not work. Kudlow gave a 4-8 week timeline, again subject to medical input. If Trump or his base wants things turned on right now, Trump is just going to have to go rogue and ignore his advisory panels.

 

[GBRforLife1]

The fact that we break down Dr. Fauci’s approval rating by political affiliation might say something about our society. Not sure what, but I don’t think it’s good. Do people really disregard the advice of a medical professional based on political ideology? If you’re a democrat and the nurse installing your ventilator is a republican, do you refuse to let her do it?

In any case, I thought there was a really good question raised by Mark Levin. I don’t know who he is or what his credentials are. It doesn’t matter. It was a good question. I believe he is asking if our current policies are eliminating the herd immunity that is presumably necessary to stop the virus. Very reasonable question that is politically agnostic. There should be a politically agnostic answer.

Is the nurse installing your vent advocating a public policy position that will put millions of Americans out if work and financially ruin them while using flawed models and saying they have to do it scare the public so they get the compliance they want? If so tell her to the hell out of the room.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870828/

Our finding that the reproductive number only began to decline in mid-April, going below the threshold of 1 on 23 April, suggests that control measures in Beijing were fairly ineffective for 5 weeks after the first cases. However, once political attention was given to the outbreak, evidenced by the initiation of contact tracing on 9 April, and the order for SARS to be notifiable on 10 April, transmission (indicated by Rt) immediately began to decline. Shortly after the introduction of fever clinics, and training in use of PPE in hospitals in mid-April, Rt fell below the critical threshold of 1 (i.e. under control). Therefore, our results suggest that the most important factor in the control of SARS in Beijing as elsewhere was strong political commitment and a coordinated response. When the government finally announced on 20 April the scope of the ongoing SARS epidemic, the disease was already almost under control (Rt was just above 1).

So, the first china virus, they dealt with it there, I was refering to us here, my mistake.
Now, lets not compare a strong political response in beijing to one here where one thousand died before anything was done.
Regardless, no vaccine was needed, and even social distancing will fail over time with this virus, two quite different animals, this chinese virus simply wont comply.

 

[MOHUSKER]

The fundamental problem is that Trump is wanting to own as little of this as possible. He wants to be able to point to "the professionals" and say "hey this is what they said to do". He thinks it'll help him politicially. Which in a way it will.

But its going to make his base mad because he's abdicating part of the Presidency to a set of career govt employees.

The way it should work is that everyone on his Task Force has an opinion. Trump adjudicates the opinions and chooses the best way forward. If Fauci or Birx or the Surgeon General is way out in left field, Trump is the filter, he ignores them and moves on (like pretty much how any of us run business when we get a wacky employee).

When Trump lock, stock and barrel goes along with Fauci and Birx, he's endorsing what they are saying and effectively making it US policy.

The only way to fix this morass of opinions is for Trump to give Kudlow more weight, or to just overrule them all and take political ownership of the risk when he can't point fingers anymore.

What one man views as weakness another can view as strength. The United States is not a dictatorship, I actually think Trump has done a relatively decent job of balancing the opinions, I think he’s still interjecting his own opinions more than he should, but considering everything, he’s doing overall a better job in relation to the pandemic than I would have expected. I will drop the other commentary of his performances since it’s not relevant to the allowed discussions.

 

[jflores]

Basically when people are yelling at Fauci, they are admitting that Trump has handed over the Presidency.

They want Fauci to have Trump's point of view, because Trump is at a stage in this crisis where he's listening to other folks and not asserting his right to leadership. So the only way to get Trump to act like Trump is for Fauci to present Trump a Trumpian solution.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

The fundamental problem is that Trump is wanting to own as little of this as possible. He wants to be able to point to "the professionals" and say "hey this is what they said to do". He thinks it'll help him politicially. Which in a way it will.

But its going to make his base mad because he's abdicating part of the Presidency to a set of career govt employees.

The way it should work is that everyone on his Task Force has an opinion/recommendation. Trump adjudicates the opinions and chooses the best way forward. If Fauci or Birx or the Surgeon General is way out in left field, Trump is the filter, he ignores them and moves on (like pretty much how any of us run business when we get a wacky employee).

When Trump lock, stock and barrel goes along with Fauci and Birx, he's endorsing what they are saying and effectively making it US policy.

The only way to fix this morass of opinions is for Trump to give Kudlow more weight, or to just overrule them all and take political ownership of the risk when he can't point fingers anymore.

Edit: And just giving Kudlow more weight may not work. Kudlow gave a 4-8 week timeline, again subject to medical input. If Trump or his base wants things turned on right now, Trump is just going to have to go rogue and ignore his advisory panels.

Early on, he should, and did, but Ive been saying for a week, the tides turning, and the Faucis become less voice, but doesn't lose prominence by keeping their eyes on the prize, the vaccine.

However, things are shifting, and the economy has taken the forefront.
If the Faucis dont get out of the way of this, it's on them.

 

[jflores]

What one man views as weakness another can view as strength. The United States is not a dictatorship, I actually think Trump has done a relatively decent job of balancing the opinions, I think he’s still interjecting his own opinions more than he should, but considering everything, he’s doing overall a better job in relation to the pandemic than I would have expected. I will drop the other commentary of his performances since it’s not relevant to the allowed discussions.

RIght and I'm not saying Trump should go dictator. If his base wants a certain outcome, he probably would have to because no one in his circle seems to agree with them.

All I'm saying is, Trump is endorsing this way forward with the way he's filtered these various Task Force opinions. The base yelling at Fauci isn't going to change anything.

 

[jflores]

Early on, he should, and did, but Ive been saying for a week, the tides turning, and the Faucis become less voice, but doesn't lose prominence by keeping their eyes on the prize, the vaccine.

However, things are shifting, and the economy has taken the forefront.
If the Faucis dont get out of the way of this, it's on them.

Fauci doesn't have to get out of the way of anything. Trumps creating a secondary Task Force to make economic recommendations. If he gives weight to them, its no skin off Fauci's nose.

Trump is the one up for re-election, not Fauci. He'll own the restart based on the input of those two task forces.

Edit: He either turns the economy on right now and it goes well, or corona flares up everywhere and everyone goes "shoulda listened to Fauci". Little to no downside for Fauci's task force.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Basically when people are yelling at Fauci, they are admitting that Trump has handed over the Presidency.

They want Fauci to have Trump's point of view, because Trump is at a stage in this crisis where he's listening to other folks and not asserting his right to leadership. So the only way to get Trump to act like Trump is for Fauci to present Trump a Trumpian solution.

Nice try, but I'll let Faucis own stupidity speak for him, never shake hands again. Or touch anything hands have ever touched.
Basic as it gets, he's an idiot when it comes to social,real life.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Fauci doesn't have to get out of the way of anything. Trumps creating a secondary Task Force to make economic recommendations. If he gives weight to them, its no skin off Fauci's nose.

Trump is the one up for re-election, not Fauci. He'll own the restart based on the input of those two task forces.

He needs to get out of the way for his own good, no shaking hands? Think man

 

[jflores]

He needs to get out of the way for his own good, no shaking hands? Think man

Trump endorsed that. He doesn't like the practice either.

 

[GBRforLife1]

Economists have long said lots of Americans were going to lose their jobs through automation and efficiency gains. Many of these people were going to lose jobs anyway.

https://futurism.com/new-chart-proves-automation-serious-threat

Really? automation was going to change the restaurant industry? Overnight? Garbage. Even if it would you'd still have the sales revenue, those taxes, support jobs, supply chain jobs etc. All of that is gone or on hold. The ones that are able to stay open are barely hanging on.

And idk if there is anything more disingenuous than parading some approval poll for some guy most people have never even heard of. They either lied or were incompetent with the models. They've admitted to wanting to scare the public to get compliance.

Gotta wonder how much the election year plays into this.

Fauci has some questionable ties to Bill Gates and there is definitely an agenda. Time will tell how far they get to push it.

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

You made an assinine claim, stated you were using incorrect numbers, were shown to be wrong by multiple posters, say you stand by your claim but won't answer simple questions about it. Fauci hasn't been been right once so idk why anyone is listening to him.



Idk who you think you are but that's cute telling me what I need to do.

They didn't overshoot beacause of the measures they took. They were never right in the 1st place. See Ohio.

1) I wasn't telling you what to do....just saying that I have every right to be here, just as you do, and it is your problem if you don't like it.

2) I find it funny that you go around saying that all these people are wrong, we don't need to distance ourselves, etc....and yet never offer a solution of your own. Just easier to be a carnival barker....and parrot the other carnival barkers, I guess.

3) What happened in Ohio? Again....you brought it up, so it is up to you to put forth that information.

 

[jflores]

Yah automation has nothing to do with these lost jobs. That was years and decades into the future potentially.

 

[MOHUSKER]

So, the first china virus, they dealt with it there, I was refering to us here, my mistake.
Now, lets not compare a strong political response in beijing to one here where one thousand died before anything was done.
Regardless, no vaccine was needed, and even social distancing will fail over time with this virus, two quite different animals, this chinese virus simply wont comply.

It took 5 weeks to provoke serious government response in China to SARS, once they did the r value was significantly impacted in all of 14 days.

Serious US efforts started around what, March 23rd? We are 2 weeks later and we are looking like things are hitting the peak, similar curve. If we follow that trend we should move below r=1 in another 2ish weeks and trend to r=0 in May.

That is great, ideally we could have had better data around hotspots earlier and enacted those measures earlier in localized areas. But looking back is always easier.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Trump endorsed that. He doesn't like the practice either.

No, Trumps a germaholic, as you know, and conflating that to advise in mankinds future by an 'expert' just wont fly, nice try though.

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

17M and counting have applied for first-time unemployment benefits in the US.

That’s a lot of lives changed forever.

I've applied for unemployment benefits before....about 11 years ago....first and only time....for about 3 weeks. I don't feel as though my life was changed forever. It's not a period of my life I look back on with fondness, but there have been far worse things occur in my life than that.

 

[jflores]

No, Trumps a germaholic, as you know, and conflating that to advise in mankinds future by an 'expert' just wont fly, nice try though.

You mean germaophobe?

Germaholic means he loves germs

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

It took 5 weeks to provoke serious government response in China to SARS, once they did the r value was significantly impacted in all of 14 days.

Serious US efforts started around what, March 23rd? We are 2 weeks later and we are looking like things are hitting the peak, similar curve. If we follow that trend we should move below r=1 in another 2ish weeks and trend to r=0 in May.

That is great, ideally we could have had better data around hotspots earlier and enacted those measures earlier in localized areas. But looking back is always easier.

True, but it makes one wonder what kind of draconian measures china has since taken up to forwards its economy.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

You mean germaophobe?

Germaholic means he loves germs

Ism,ist,phobe,holic
True, but you get my gist

 

[John_J_Rambo_rivals315142]

I've applied for unemployment benefits before....about 11 years ago....first and only time....for about 3 weeks. I don't feel as though my life was changed forever. It's not a period of my life I look back on with fondness, but there have been far worse things occur in my life than that.

let's hope there are 17M+ yous in those lines today.

I, for one, would be pretty surprised if the lion's share were back on their feet 3 weeks from now.

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

Really? automation was going to change the restaurant industry? Overnight? Garbage. Even if it would you'd still have the sales revenue, those taxes, support jobs, supply chain jobs etc. All of that is gone or on hold. The ones that are able to stay open are barely hanging on.

And idk if there is anything more disingenuous than parading some approval poll for some guy most people have never even heard of. They either lied or were incompetent with the models. They've admitted to wanting to scare the public to get compliance.

Gotta wonder how much the election year plays into this.

Fauci has some questionable ties to Bill Gates and there is definitely an agenda. Time will tell how far they get to push it.

Yes......and it's been said before on this forum by another poster......

Millions of people have been under one lockdown or another in over 100 countries, with 1.6 million cases, and almost 100k deaths. The Prime Minister of Japan and the IOC made the decision to postpone the Olympics. Sports leagues all over the world have postponed or cancelled events.....all because CNN and MSNBC told them to, so Joe Biden can win an election.

Yes....makes sense to me

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

let's hope there are 17M+ yous in those lines today.

I, for one, would be pretty surprised if the lion's share were back on their feet 3 weeks from now.

The benefits end in July, so if we start in May, we might reach plan