For those wanting a new DC...

Jul 9, 2009
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Why do people care so much what the offense or defense looks like if we are winning? If we aren't winning, then I would understand the concern. If future seasons play out like this one, then I would be concerned. But Frost and staff's haven't completed their first season and people are already calling for firings.o_O
 
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RedMyMind

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2017
12,390
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Why do people care so much what the offense or defense looks like if we are winning? If we aren't winning, then I would understand the concern. If future seasons play out like this one, then I would be concerned. But Frost and staff's haven't completed their first season and people are already calling for firings.o_O
I agree. Bunch of entitled cry-babies on here recently
 
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nebcountry

Senior
Oct 29, 2013
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There may be a small number of fans calling for a new DC. No matter how much rationalizing takes place, a poor defense will lead to losses. Our defense is still poor, it is still a talking point.
 

Sporty

Senior
Jul 4, 2007
2,623
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Could Chin be the right guy at DC? It is possible but at this point that is not showing in the performance from that side of the ball. You cannot tell me that the personnel on that side of the ball are that overmatched. Sorry but first I am not going to call them out like that and secondly they appear to be giving their best effort. I find it interesting that many on here say it is not okay to be calling out the DC but in their effort to protect Chin they are calling out all the personnel on that side of the ball!
 
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Abn173

All-Conference
Jul 26, 2012
2,355
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Good defenses can get 2-3 turnovers a game and hold opponents to field goals instead of touchdowns. You don't have to have an average "attacking" style of defense to get those kind of results. Any coach should be concerned about how many points the defense gives up. You can have the best offense in college football, but if someone outscores you, you're still going to lose the game.

Bear Bryant had a saying about having a good defense:
If you can't score on me, you can't beat me.
 

Harry Caray

All-American
Feb 28, 2002
71,014
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But the "outscore them" strategy did pretty good at Oregon, so we'll have to see what happens here. It's going to take some time and patience.

Pac-12 is much different than the Big Ten. Nobody really plays any defense in the Pac-12. I think Auburn and Ohio State shut down Chip Kelly's offense pretty well in the BCS bowls.
 

inWV

All-Conference
Sep 22, 2007
14,194
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Surprised this hasn't been brought up, but Bo's 2003 defense would pair nicely with Frost's offense. 3.6 turnovers gained vs. 1.8 lost. 2.5 ints per game. Get that type of talent back on D and NU rolls.
 
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Solana Beach Husker

All-Conference
Aug 7, 2008
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Bad news for ya, Chins not going anywhere any time soon. If i heard properly on Mondays press conference, Scott isn't concerned with the number of points the defense gives up due to his style of offense. He believes it's unrealistic to have a top 25 defense with this style of offense. He prefers the defense to give up field goals instead of TD's, and get about 2-3 turnovers a game so the opposition has to play keep up to stay in the game. He wants the team wins by 2 scores and everything after that is icing on the cake.
You misheard...he doesn't worry about yards..and teams might score points...but he isn't going to be happy with 50-30 outcomes in 3 years. He has been a defensive coach, and played defense....he understands that he puts his d at a disadvantage but Chin is already under the microscope. Scott has taken a more active role in defensive strategy and planning...especially after the Purdue game...it is his opinion that Chin is coaching fine and that guys are in position but a talent upgrade is needed. The next logical step is to upgrade talent and then make a judgement if chin is the right guy. Scott won't fire Chin, but if he isn't the best option he will "move on" to a role as head coach at a place like NW missouri state.
 
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NU65

All-American
Dec 9, 2005
53,486
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That strategy has produced 3 wins so far. I think Frost would love to have a better defense
When better players come into the defense you will think Chinander is a genius. It's athletes it isn't game plans
 

NorthWillRiseAgain

All-Conference
Dec 14, 2004
8,760
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We used to give 3 years, now it’s 1 apparently.

This offense was being talked about fairly roughly just about 5 or 6 weeks ago and how it won’t work. Now it’s “this offense is great, just needs a good defense.”

News flash, execution, and the right players can make things look completely different.
 

RedMyMind

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2017
12,390
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We used to give 3 years, now it’s 1 apparently.

This offense was being talked about fairly roughly just about 5 or 6 weeks ago and how it won’t work. Now it’s “this offense is great, just needs a good defense.”

News flash, execution, and the right players can make things look completely different.
now that's crazy talk. :p
 

dand84

All-Conference
Oct 28, 2017
3,429
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Lest we forget, many of the same posters bashing the D and chins are the same people that were bashing the O and Frost only a few short weeks ago.

You ahould judge their ability at analyzing football accordingly.
 
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Jonskers

Freshman
Oct 22, 2018
33
52
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We used to give 3 years, now it’s 1 apparently.

This offense was being talked about fairly roughly just about 5 or 6 weeks ago and how it won’t work. Now it’s “this offense is great, just needs a good defense.”

News flash, execution, and the right players can make things look completely different.

Not even a year, ha
 

DaddyBoi

Junior
Sep 1, 2018
285
379
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I remember in an interview Frost said something to the effect of "cherish the losing" in a sense.

I think that relates in the sense that we may become a high octane offense that lacks dominating defense of the 90's. We still need to appreciate that time if its the case. Never forget the abysmal Riley years where we had neither.

If we're not careful, we're going to give Frost the Harbaugh treatment; unrealistic expectations that don't match the team he inherited. Harbaugh is in year 4, for the first time looks like he can field a team competitive enough for the CFB playoff and even some of that hinged upon getting a sought after transfer QB.

Before we start doing the "FIRE CHINS" chant, realize that UCF's defense has gotten worse since losing him and I would argue we have improved marginally from last year. The team in general is trending in the right direction, unless Iowa hangs 70 on us there's no reason to start making major staff changes.

Mark my words, before we know it Troy Walters is going to be getting big interviews.
 

oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,473
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Are you listening? Frost isn’t concerned about being outscored. He’s going to outscore the other team. If the defense gets occasional stops, turnovers as well, he fully believes he will outscore the other teams hat is his strategy.

No matter how much you feel you know better, he doesn’t care. So buckle up for a bumpy ride.
So the offense has to be perfect to win games? Even this year we have a pretty good offense, but it's nowhere close to perfect. I know Frost has high standards for the offense. Why not the same for the defense? Would it not be a better strategy to have both a good offense AND a good defense? I don't see the need why you have to choose one or the other.
 

red scowl

Heisman
May 19, 2018
15,892
11,847
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Bad news for ya, Chins not going anywhere any time soon. If i heard properly on Mondays press conference, Scott isn't concerned with the number of points the defense gives up due to his style of offense. He believes it's unrealistic to have a top 25 defense with this style of offense. He prefers the defense to give up field goals instead of TD's, and get about 2-3 turnovers a game so the opposition has to play keep up to stay in the game. He wants the team wins by 2 scores and everything after that is icing on the cake.

See Oklahoma vs Georgia. Or Oregon in an important game, or Texas Tech. Have to have a much better defense.
 

oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,473
2,015
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He is correct in saying the style of offense will many times dictate defensive rankings. But much of that is time of possession, based on what we have seen so far the offense is not snapping the ball quickly
Yes we've barely ran any hurry up all year. The pace of our offense has been pretty average this year. Our offense has actually done a pretty good job of moving and holding onto the ball. Any time of possession issues are mostly the result of the defense not being able to get stops, especially on 3rd downs, and letting the other team drive down the field. If it wasn't for our offense being able to move the ball, our defense would have probably given up even more points and more yards this year.
 

jlb321_rivals110621

All-American
Aug 8, 2014
7,956
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Our defense has been poor no doubt. But we were in position to win both the Colorado and NW games with the offense on the field in need of only a first down and they failed both times. The defense played well above their heads in the OSU game and handed the offense 3 turnovers and the offense didn’t get the job done in the second half including late in the game where a drive would have won it.

If you are going to rely on your offense to win games they need to do it in crunch time. We could be sitting at 6-4 had the offense come through in crunch time when the defense put them in a position to close out games.
 

Trumplestiltskin

Sophomore
Sep 7, 2018
918
195
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Surprised this hasn't been brought up, but Bo's 2003 defense would pair nicely with Frost's offense. 3.6 turnovers gained vs. 1.8 lost. 2.5 ints per game. Get that type of talent back on D and NU rolls.


Yeah I’m not sure why everyone thinks u can’t be good at both. Let China see get his guys to run his scheme and maybe they’ll dominate both sides.
 

oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,473
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Reading this thread, and threads over the last few days pointing out that Chin's defenses haven't been amazing anywhere he's gone, made me think of a few things:

Teams tend to be known for one thing or the other. Really good teams field offenses and defenses that are both as good as humanly possible for the program, but they tend to be favored on one side of the ball or the other. It is rare that a team has the #1 D and #1 O in the country. Now, about Frost's comments:

1.) That defense played amazing against Auburn. Sure, they were fired up, had a month off, and had Shaquem Griffin, but still, that was a damned impressive showing.

2.) Michigan State has the #1 defense in CFB right now. We have the #13 offense. Remember 1997? We had the #1 offense and something like the #25 defense. Michigan had the #1 defense and something like the #30 or #40 or so offense. We went up against a Tennessee team that was, I think, top 20 for both, but better on the O side.

Result: We crushed Tennessee, Michigan barely beat Washington State, and the consensus going away from 1997 is that we would have beaten Michigan had we played them.

I realize that we need the best D possible, but I kind of agree with Frost; O is how you win games. The more points you can put on the board, the more you just flat out deflate the other team's will to compete. Michigan State prides itself on fielding a savage D, year after year, and they never get to where they COULD get to if they focused instead on building a really points-crazy O and dialed down the D just a tad.

Now, I realize that a great example of a team that used O-first and was less good on D would be Oregon under Chip Kelly, and they never won a championship either. It's a fair critique, and my thought on that was that Oregon focused a little too much on speed and sacrificed size and durability for it. I don't think Frost is going to make that mistake here at Nebraska, and he has said as much.

Just some thoughts on the state of things.
On the other side of things, Saban seems to have made a commitment about 2 or 3 years that he wants a great offense as well as a great defense. In the last 3 years, Alabama has completely changed their style of offense and even hired Lane Kiffin and Steve Sarkisian as coordinators to implement that change. Alabama's offense has been very good for several years, but it was never great. Not until this year anyway. Saban no longer has to rely on having the best defense to win championships because he now has the best offense too. Now either side of the ball can have a slightly off year and there's a better chance than not Alabama will win the national championship because they will either have the best offense or the best defense in the country. If you look at the kind of year Alabama is having, that's the kind of thing that happens when you make a commitment to be the best on both sides of the ball.
 

oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,473
2,015
113
points per play might be a better metric - we are 107th currently

defensive improvement will be something to look for the next couple of years - it would be a shame to continually field a defense that wipes out the efforts of a great offense and potentially a generational QB in Martinez. Defensive performance will ultimately determine if Frost will eventually be considered a great head coach in addition to being a great offensive coordinator.
Exactly what I thought. The defense has noone to blame but themselves for the position they are in and where they are ranked. 107th is how this defense has played this year and where they belong in the rankings. The defense isn't ranked 107th because "the offense scores too fast" or whatever bs excuse people want to use to deflect blame away from the defense.
 

oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,473
2,015
113
I think it is laughable that anyone thinks this D is the finished product for all time to come. The scheme is not built around missed tackles and missed assignments and mis-alignments. Cleaning up that silliness alone will improve this defense. Much like getting in the plus column in turnovers.
That should be the first thing you clean up. Those kind of things should be taken care of by the end of fall camp. Missed tackles and missed assignments haven't improved all year. Even in UCF's second year, they had a ton of problems with these things so I'm not sure we can expect this to improve much in year 2.
 

BK12

Junior
Nov 20, 2001
3,056
231
63
Bad news for ya, Chins not going anywhere any time soon. If i heard properly on Mondays press conference, Scott isn't concerned with the number of points the defense gives up due to his style of offense. He believes it's unrealistic to have a top 25 defense with this style of offense. He prefers the defense to give up field goals instead of TD's, and get about 2-3 turnovers a game so the opposition has to play keep up to stay in the game. He wants the team wins by 2 scores and everything after that is icing on the cake.

Well thats not bad news for people who want Chins to leave - it's bad news for Nebraska football because the guy isn't a quality Defensive Coordinator.
Not sure how Frost isn't concerned with the number of points given up when we have been outscored by 7 of 9 division 1 opponents we played this year so far.
Unrealistic to have a top 25 defense? Our defense isn't even ranked in the top 100 - and that is with FCS Bethune Cookman as an opponent.
Just curious why some people think this defense is going to magically improve next year? Sounds like wishful thinking or insanity on many fans parts. I don't see a great infusion of talent coming in. I guess people are thinking we just don't understand the scheme this year - whatever it is - but next year they will somehow get it. Don't think that is going to make much difference.
 
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F5Tornado

All-Conference
Jul 19, 2018
2,157
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In the next few seasons, if Nebraska can shave about 100 yards/game off on the defensive side, that would be good. that would put them about 350 yards/game. Top ten so far this year below:

Total Yards Leaders
RK TEAM YDS YDS/G PASS P YDS/G RUSH R YDS/G PTS PTS/G
1 Michigan 2198 220 1160 116.0 1038 103.8 129 12.9
2 Appalachian State 2499 278 1390 154.4 1109 123.2 142 15.8
3 Clemson 2536 254 1713 171.3 823 82.3 127 12.7
4 Southern Mississippi 2564 285 1575 175.0 989 109.9 191 21.2
5 UAB 2616 262 1550 155.0 1066 106.6 132 13.2
6 Miami 2686 269 1343 134.3 1343 134.3 201 20.1
7 Cincinnati 2782 278 1770 177.0 1012 101.2 149 14.9
8 Mississippi State 2813 281 1668 166.8 1145 114.5 135 13.5
9 Alabama 2828 283 1865 186.5 963 96.3 127 12.7
10 Iowa 2859 286 1899 189.9 960 96.0 181 18.1
 

Wyldcard

All-Conference
Feb 12, 2018
9,727
2,691
0
Good defenses can get 2-3 turnovers a game and hold opponents to field goals instead of touchdowns. You don't have to have an average "attacking" style of defense to get those kind of results. Any coach should be concerned about how many points the defense gives up. You can have the best offense in college football, but if someone outscores you, you're still going to lose the game.
Once this O get's running fully on all cylinder's, there won't be an offense to outscore this one. Sorry
 

timnsun

All-American
Jan 25, 2008
13,815
7,519
3
@oldjar07 and @UNCHUSKER, I agree in principle that our defense can be better. And it should be better. And I believe it will be better in time.

I just think it’s too early to say Chin sucks and should be fired. He works extremely hard and is learning. No doubt in my mind he will improve as a coach, which will help the team improve as well.

I just don’t get the rush to judgment and the certainty that he will always suck. We have had a revolving door at the DC position. Changing it again will not help, unless you bring in Dave Aranda or Mike Zimmer or someone proven to be a solid defensive coach. Are those guys gonna come here?

Let’s see what Chin can do, given time. 10 games is not enough time.
 

oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,473
2,015
113
Once this O get's running fully on all cylinder's, there won't be an offense to outscore this one. Sorry
If our offense has an off day and the defense doesn't get drastically better, there sure as hell will be a lot of teams that could outscore us.
 

oldjar07

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2009
9,473
2,015
113
Well thats not bad news for people who want Chins to leave - it's bad news for Nebraska football because the guy isn't a quality Defensive Coordinator.
Not sure how Frost isn't concerned with the number of points given up when we have been outscored by 7 of 9 division 1 opponents we played this year so far.
Unrealistic to have a top 25 defense? Our defense isn't even ranked in the top 100 - and that is with FCS Bethune Cookman as an opponent.
Just curious why some people think this defense is going to magically improve next year? Sounds like wishful thinking or insanity on many fans parts. I don't see a great infusion of talent coming in. I guess people are thinking we just don't understand the scheme this year - whatever it is - but next year they will somehow get it. Don't think that is going to make much difference.
I think our defense will get better next year, but not by enough. We could have a top 10 offense next year and still struggle to get to 7-5 if our defense doesn't improve much. I also don't think the defense is going to magically keep improving every year like some people assume. I don't know if Chinender has a very high ceiling and don't think we're going to see a defense that's much above average while he's here.
 

timnsun

All-American
Jan 25, 2008
13,815
7,519
3
I think our defense will get better next year, but not by enough. We could have a top 10 offense next year and still struggle to get to 7-5 if our defense doesn't improve much. I also don't think the defense is going to magically keep improving every year like some people assume. I don't know if Chinender has a very high ceiling and don't think we're going to see a defense that's much above average while he's here.
You base that on what you are seeing right now, and that makes sense. But he’s still quite young... I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that he can improve quite a bit.

Time will tell.
 

MackDaddy87

Redshirt
Aug 24, 2018
70
23
0
Why are those people want expecting to much just for their first season?....SMH!

Obviously, doesn't know how the football coach's process and development work. Next time do your homework first and before your mouth.
 

Wyldcard

All-Conference
Feb 12, 2018
9,727
2,691
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Why are those people want expecting to much just for their first season?....SMH!

Obviously, doesn't know how the football coach's process and development work. Next time do your homework first and before your mouth.
There are A LOT of brain dead idiots that expected instant 90's glory when Frost got here and will always complain even after we start winning championships again. They totally live in a fantasy world and clearly lack the ability of understanding the concept of year one, especially from where this team was last year. The defense right now is what it is people and there is not one thing you or I can do about it, so deal with it. It's quite simple actually. You have 2 choices, sit back and enjoy the ride that's coming or get the hell out. I don't who care likes what I said or not. In Frost I trust.
 
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