JoMo set the bar pretty damn high

missouridawg

Junior
Oct 6, 2009
9,407
309
83
For first year coaches at MSU completely losing the winning culture that they came to try and build on.. but NMP has beat him. Sat JMY and Rickea for 3 Qs today cause “she wanted to focus on the seniors”.

Guessing those two, who are likely our best two players, are going to transfer.

What a complete **** show of a job she’s done this year. Absolutely atrocious.
 

FlotownDawg

All-American
Aug 30, 2012
7,231
8,109
113
I guess so. It was the final regular season game. SEC Tournament starts Thursday for us. 11am game against LSU. We’re the 9 seed.
 

MSUDC11

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
7,316
0
0
I guess so. It was the final regular season game. SEC Tournament starts Thursday for us. 11am game against LSU. We’re the 9 seed.

From No. 6 nationally in the preseason to 9th in the SEC in the span of about three months is truly an unbelievable fall from grace. I genuinely thought she was walking into a situation that was so good that she could have good teams for a couple of years even if she wasn’t that great of a coach. Boy was I wrong.

WBB is a sport that you kinda have to strike while the iron is hot with fan support, and we have totally torpedoed one of our most popular programs on campus. It didn’t even take a full season for her to lose the majority of the fanbase. And a lot of those people aren’t coming back anytime soon, if ever.
 

Seinfeld

All-American
Nov 30, 2006
11,632
7,870
113
I’m honestly trying to figure out how in the world we’re still projected as a 7 seed. This team is awful, and something tells me that things are going to get worse after a mass exodus this offseason. It takes a special kind of talent to completely unravel the fabric of a program this quickly
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
60,481
31,699
113
It's time. One year is enough. You just have to wonder about the behind the scenes stories we're not hearing.
 

Dawgg

Heisman
Sep 9, 2012
10,535
10,793
113
I’m honestly trying to figure out how in the world we’re still projected as a 7 seed.

Women’s basketball rewards “good losses“ more than just about any other sport. We’ve been at its mercy in those 2014-2016 years because teams would get a higher seed for the simple fact they got shellacked by UConn or Baylor at some point in the season.

This year, we got beat by the 3, 5, 13, 16, 19, & 20 AP teams and beat #17. I haven’t looked at RPI/NET, but it should be in the same ballpark.
 

Seinfeld

All-American
Nov 30, 2006
11,632
7,870
113
5th by the coaches which is obviously relevant, but also fair to mention that we were picked 2nd by virtually every other major outlet while also being tagged with a Top 10 ranking.

This is also one of those times where looking at records and box scores doesn’t tell the story. You can watch 5 minutes of a game and see the complete lack of passion and energy. It’s like the life force of the entire program has just been zapped
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
60,481
31,699
113
Even taking the coaches' preseason prediction, the difference between that and where we are now is huge. 5th in the SEC is 18-5 (10-5) and ranked #17 in the AP poll. We're 10-8 (5-7), would be worse if not for the cancellations, and not receiving votes. It's almost unimaginable a new coach could do such a bad job.
 

FlotownDawg

All-American
Aug 30, 2012
7,231
8,109
113
Thank God our road game against OM was canceled. I’m pretty sure we would have lost that one to break our winning streak. And we sure as hell would’ve lost to Tennessee. Game cancellations helped us be able to get into the NCAA Tournament. We’ll probably be a 9-10 and lose in the first round but at least we can keep that streak alive for one more year.
 

pmack3641

Junior
Aug 9, 2019
509
205
43
Have watched most of the games this year and the team has gone from bad to worse. Yesterday was really bad, RJ and JMY and others phoned it in, just pure lazy and a don't care attitude. Not sure what Cohen is going to do but WBB will now revert to many bad years.
 

thekimmer

All-Conference
Aug 30, 2012
8,853
2,988
113
It's over folks.....

For first year coaches at MSU completely losing the winning culture that they came to try and build on.. but NMP has beat him. Sat JMY and Rickea for 3 Qs today cause “she wanted to focus on the seniors”.

Guessing those two, who are likely our best two players, are going to transfer.

What a complete **** show of a job she’s done this year. Absolutely atrocious.

The run in WBB was a blast but unfortunately it will go into the history book as just a flash in the pan and not a program changing moment. Instead of building on the legacy NMP has proven to be a complete flop as a coach and as a person who can engage the fanbase. Thus, we have reverted back to previous form faster than cinderella's coach turned into a pumpkin. We will stay there for the foreseeable future because she isn't going anywhere next season and likely the one after that. Expect us to be what we are now or worse with maybe 200 people in the stands for years to come.
 

57stratdawg

Heisman
Dec 1, 2004
148,695
24,557
113
We certainly failed to live up to the expectations. We'll see how she handles year 2.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
Slight hijack, but I get kind of annoyed by the constant discussion of “winning culture” and culture in general when it comes to coaches...like its something that can somehow ever carry over from one coach to the next. The “culture” of Dan Mullen and Vic Schafer’s teams at MSU was destroyed the second they announced they were leaving. Not a moment later. Their replacements simply are not or were not good coaches. They didn’t destroy anything that was built because it was already destroyed when they got there. They simply failed to build what was necessary with the pieces available when they took over. People are naive as **** to believe that large groups of 18-22 year olds can ever self manage to any extent that would be required to actually retain the discipline / habits practiced under an old coach for a new one. They just do what they are told by whoever is in charge at the time.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,177
5,721
113
Slight hijack, but I get kind of annoyed by the constant discussion of “winning culture” and culture in general when it comes to coaches...like its something that can somehow ever carry over from one coach to the next. The “culture” of Dan Mullen and Vic Schafer’s teams at MSU was destroyed the second they announced they were leaving. Not a moment later. Their replacements simply are not or were not good coaches. They didn’t destroy anything that was built because it was already destroyed when they got there. They simply failed to build what was necessary with the pieces available when they took over. People are naive as **** to believe that large groups of 18-22 year olds can ever self manage to any extent that would be required to actually retain the discipline / habits practiced under an old coach for a new one. They just do what they are told by whoever is in charge at the time.

Nahhhhh. It takes time (normally) to destroy good habits and accountability. Seen plenty of coaches at different levels benefit from the culture instituted by the prior coach but gradually lose it. You usually don't see coaches nuke a good culture in less than a season.

The bad part is that while you can nuke a good culture in a season, turning around a bad culture normally takes time or you have to run a bunch of bad apples off. Mullen got buy-in pretty much from the moment he got here, but Croom's culture wasn't that bad, and Mullen inherited players hungry for real coaching.
 

VegasDawg13

Freshman
Jun 11, 2007
2,191
80
48
Slight hijack, but I get kind of annoyed by the constant discussion of “winning culture” and culture in general when it comes to coaches...like its something that can somehow ever carry over from one coach to the next. The “culture” of Dan Mullen and Vic Schafer’s teams at MSU was destroyed the second they announced they were leaving. Not a moment later. Their replacements simply are not or were not good coaches. They didn’t destroy anything that was built because it was already destroyed when they got there. They simply failed to build what was necessary with the pieces available when they took over. People are naive as **** to believe that large groups of 18-22 year olds can ever self manage to any extent that would be required to actually retain the discipline / habits practiced under an old coach for a new one. They just do what they are told by whoever is in charge at the time.
I take your point to some extent, but on the other hand, we had the best defense in the country in 2018 under Moorhead. And then there's the baseball team's performance from 2016 through 2019 under a new coach every year.
 

GloryDawg

Heisman
Mar 3, 2005
20,655
19,410
113
I’m honestly trying to figure out how in the world we’re still projected as a 7 seed. This team is awful, and something tells me that things are going to get worse after a mass exodus this offseason. It takes a special kind of talent to completely unravel the fabric of a program this quickly

Street Credit but that will be gone next season.
 

dawgphd

Sophomore
May 16, 2008
1,622
171
63
We were projected to finish 5th or 6th in the SEC this year. 9th is disappointing, but it’s important to keep things in perspective.

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/spor...-picked-win-2021-sec-championship/6325363002/

This is the very interesting thing to me. Top 10 nationally but 6th in the conference.

Do the other league coaches know our talent is less than we think? Or our coaches not thought of as good ? Or both?

And another thing, why to the 247 writers keep overtly defending her? I don't expect them to lambast her but on more than one occasion they seem to be company water carriers.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
Nahhhhh. It takes time (normally) to destroy good habits and accountability. Seen plenty of coaches at different levels benefit from the culture instituted by the prior coach but gradually lose it. You usually don't see coaches nuke a good culture in less than a season.

The bad part is that while you can nuke a good culture in a season, turning around a bad culture normally takes time or you have to run a bunch of bad apples off. Mullen got buy-in pretty much from the moment he got here, but Croom's culture wasn't that bad, and Mullen inherited players hungry for real coaching.

Mullen “got buy-in” as soon as he got here? Players were hungry for “real coaching”? What do either of those statements even really mean? The same players who played under Croom weren’t hungry at all for coaching under him, but got hungrier under Mullen? That’s quite the bold and ambiguous statement.

You said the culture “wasn’t that bad” under Croom, but the results show otherwise. We sucked for 5 years. The real talk is that Croom was a fairly good disciplinarian, a halfway decent recruiter at least towards the end of his tenure, and even a good fundamentals coach. He just stuck stubbornly with an offensive system that was both overly complicated and not at all suited for the talent we had on hand and nearby. Mullen didn’t “get immediate buy-in”, he just ran a much better and more simple offensive system, and that switch yielded immediate results. The players we had under Croom did the best they could to learn and execute the system, they just couldn’t because they weren’t good enough and half of them hadn’t been here long enough to fully understand the nuances. Good X’s and O’s and good recruiting (read: good coaching) leads to winning. When a coach wins, he has a mandate to lead and that builds real culture under his leadership. Coaches that don’t win rotate through assistants and change systems until they get fired....they never get there. But either way, the culture is a product of whether or not the coach has proven he can win in the here and now.
 
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johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,177
5,721
113
Mullen “got buy-in” as soon as he got here? Players were hungry for “real coaching”? What do either of those statements even really mean? The same players who played under Croom weren’t hungry at all for coaching under him, but got hungrier under Mullen? That’s quite the bold and ambiguous statement.
Are you shitting me? You had starting linebackers talking about how great it was to have real coaching. Yes, they wanted coaching when Croom was here, they just didn't get any once Ellis Johnson left (which is an incredible thing to say in hindsight but there's no arguing his results for us).

You said the culture “wasn’t that bad” under Croom, but the results show otherwise. We sucked for 5 years.
You don't understand the difference between winning and culture? Have you ever played any sports? Even in Jr. High? Some teams win despite a bad culture. Stansbury had some teams with bad culture that still did ok. Didn't get anywhere near their potential, but had enough talent that they still won, more than some other teams with good cultures. Croom's team had on ok culture but lost because of bad coaching and lack of talent at some key positions. They didn't usually give up outside of some games the last year where we no longer had a defensive staff that could put us in position to be competitive.

The real talk is that Croom was a fairly good disciplinarian, a halfway decent recruiter at least towards the end of his tenure, and even a good fundamentals coach. He just stuck stubbornly with an offensive system that was both overly complicated and not at all suited for the talent we had on hand and nearby. Mullen didn’t “get immediate buy-in”, he just ran a much better and more simple offensive system, and that switch yielded immediate results.
This is just ******** and insulting to the players on that 2009 team. They bought in and were competitive against very good teams. They just had a fatal lack of talent at QB and FS.


The players we had under Croom did the best they could to learn and execute the system, they just couldn’t because they weren’t good enough and half of them hadn’t been here long enough to fully understand the nuances. Good X’s and O’s and good recruiting (read: good coaching) leads to winning. When a coach wins, he has a mandate to lead and that builds real culture under his leadership. Coaches that don’t win rotate through assistants and change systems until they get fired....they never get there. But either way, the culture is a product of whether or not the coach has proven he can win in the here and now.
This is just incorrect. Again, you are not understanding that culture is not your win loss record.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
Are you shitting me? You had starting linebackers talking about how great it was to have real coaching. Yes, they wanted coaching when Croom was here, they just didn't get any once Ellis Johnson left (which is an incredible thing to say in hindsight but there's no arguing his results for us).

You don't understand the difference between winning and culture? Have you ever played any sports? Even in Jr. High? Some teams win despite a bad culture. Stansbury had some teams with bad culture that still did ok. Didn't get anywhere near their potential, but had enough talent that they still won, more than some other teams with good cultures. Croom's team had on ok culture but lost because of bad coaching and lack of talent at some key positions. They didn't usually give up outside of some games the last year where we no longer had a defensive staff that could put us in position to be competitive.

This is just ******** and insulting to the players on that 2009 team. They bought in and were competitive against very good teams. They just had a fatal lack of talent at QB and FS.


This is just incorrect. Again, you are not understanding that culture is not your win loss record.

Played plenty of sports and understand full well everything that goes into winning and losing. Your panties are in a wad because you don’t seem to understand that the number one contributor to competent culture / winning / whatever is good coaching, and it doesn’t ever just copy / paste over to the next staff without that coach having an equally effective instruction method, assistants, offensive and defensive system, discipline, etc. It’s a reset button every time you make a coaching change.
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
22,523
16,270
113
"Winning culture" is cliche for "you got a proven coach". Nothing more.
 

615dawg

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
7,305
4,843
113
Like I have said before, the biggest difference in this team is the give a damn. You can tell in their IG and TikTok videos that they dont care about basketball. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is using playing college basketball as a platform to promote herself as an influencer. All the heavy makeup marketing shots don't help that either.

Ive heard from many that the drop in assistant coach talent has been too dramatic. Harris was basically a second head coach. Now, NMP is trying to be everyone's friend, but that only works when you have assistants that demand respect. Its one big freaking TikTok video, now.

Cohen vastly underestimated what Vic meant for this program. I would say that his personality attracted a lot of the middle class fanbase that supported the program. Those same families, who are worried about how they are going to pay for their kid's college, have short attention spans when they see women's basketball players dance on TikTok while on full athletic scholarship screaming they are oppressed.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
Winning culture is. But that does not mean there is not culture separate from winning and that it doesn't matter.

If you aren’t winning, it doesn’t matter. You keep talking about culture “not that bad” under Croom. What is the evidence of that?

Consistent effort and performance? Nope. We lost to an FCS team that finished with a losing 17ing record, then turned around and beat a Top 25 team the next week. We lost multiple games to teams that were substantially less talented than we were (Tulane, Vandy, La Tech, and others). We mailed it in hardcore at the beginning and end of 2008 in games against Ga Tech and OM.

Staying out of trouble off the field? Nope. We had clowns firing guns on campus at cars. We signed a guy who literally filled out his LOI from a jail cell. Multiple DUI’s, drug arrests, DV type situations that were maybe not overly excessive compared to other college football programs who were at the top of the Fulmer Cup rankings, but were far from nonexistent.

So, was the culture good because we attended team meetings and lifted weights and stuff? Just because the locker room wasn’t a debilitating cesspool of debauchery and dysfunction like the Sherrill ‘01-‘03 years doesn’t mean we had good culture. That’s a hilariously low bar to set for judging culture being good or not, but that’s still what a lot of our fans seem to think.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
Like I have said before, the biggest difference in this team is the give a damn. You can tell in their IG and TikTok videos that they dont care about basketball. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is using playing college basketball as a platform to promote herself as an influencer. All the heavy makeup marketing shots don't help that either.

Ive heard from many that the drop in assistant coach talent has been too dramatic. Harris was basically a second head coach. Now, NMP is trying to be everyone's friend, but that only works when you have assistants that demand respect. Its one big freaking TikTok video, now.

Cohen vastly underestimated what Vic meant for this program. I would say that his personality attracted a lot of the middle class fanbase that supported the program. Those same families, who are worried about how they are going to pay for their kid's college, have short attention spans when they see women's basketball players dance on TikTok while on full athletic scholarship screaming they are oppressed.

Yeah, I still can’t believe Cohen didn’t make Vic one of the top 5 highest paid WBB coaches in the country, and then had the balls to also fire Vic.....

Get the 17 out of here with that nonsensical ********.
 

dickiedawg

All-Conference
Feb 22, 2008
4,580
1,516
113
Vic's program is dead and buried. I'm afraid we're going to have a lot of transfers and suck next season. After that we'll see if NMP can rebuild the program in her own image. I'm not optimistic.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,177
5,721
113
If you aren’t winning, it doesn’t matter. You keep talking about culture “not that bad” under Croom. What is the evidence of that?

Consistent effort and performance? Nope. We lost to an FCS team that finished with a losing 17ing record, then turned around and beat a Top 25 team the next week. We lost multiple games to teams that were substantially less talented than we were (Tulane, Vandy, La Tech, and others).
You are confusing being shittily coached with inconsistent effort. When playing hard was enough to generate a win, it usually meant the other team had a coach that was doing a poor enough job that he was about to get fired.

We mailed it in hardcore at the beginning and end of 2008 in games against Ga Tech and OM.
2008 was Croom's last year dubmass. Mullen got here in 2009. So yes, as I said, they didn't really give up in games until 2008, when the defensive staff started to match the offensive staff's competency. And yes, playing hard for an incompetent head coach is a sign that the culture is not all the way gone. Wasn't due to Croom, but our defense generally played hard despite the offense not giving them a chance.

Staying out of trouble off the field? Nope. We had clowns firing guns on campus at cars. We signed a guy who literally filled out his LOI from a jail cell. Multiple DUI’s, drug arrests, DV type situations that were maybe not overly excessive compared to other college football programs who were at the top of the Fulmer Cup rankings, but were far from nonexistent.
It's almost like you could describe that as bad, but not that bad???

So, was the culture good because we attended team meetings and lifted weights and stuff? Just because the locker room wasn’t a debilitating cesspool of debauchery and dysfunction like the Sherrill ‘01-‘03 years doesn’t mean we had good culture. That’s a hilariously low bar to set for judging culture being good or not, but that’s still what a lot of our fans seem to think.

You are talking about other people having a low bar but you interpret "not that bad" as "good"??? The culture under Croom wasn't that bad. It wasn't good. It was bad enough to negatively impact players (such as say Anthony Dixon not being in shape his jr. year), but not bad enough to ruin them or to create a hangover where a bunch of people had to be run off.
 
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Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
You are confusing being shittily coached with inconsistent effort

The rest of what you wrote is irrelevant....the above highlights what appears to be the fundamental differences in our arguments.

I’m not confusing ****** coaching for inconsistent effort because they are tethered at the hip....one in the same. You cannot have one without the other. Inconsistent effort is a product of elite execution and maximum effort in practice and in games not being emphasized enough by the coaches. It’s a product of playing more talented players who are loafing over lesser talented players giving 110% and executing their assignments at a high level. All of that is absolutely a product of ****** coaching just as much as the X’s and O’s are. And Croom’s teams were just as guilty of inconsistent effort as they were for running a crappy offense. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t have been missing blocks left and right and fumbling the ball all over the field against the likes of Maine, UAB, Tulane, etc.

Tell me this. Would you swap the “culture” of Croom’s 5 years for that of Hugh Freeze’s 4 years at OM?
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,177
5,721
113
The rest of what you wrote is irrelevant....the above highlights what appears to be the fundamental differences in our arguments.

I’m not confusing ****** coaching for inconsistent effort because they are tethered at the hip....one in the same. You cannot have one without the other. Inconsistent effort is a product of elite execution and maximum effort in practice and in games not being emphasized enough by the coaches. It’s a product of playing more talented players who are loafing over lesser talented players giving 110% and executing their assignments at a high level. All of that is absolutely a product of ****** coaching just as much as the X’s and O’s are. And Croom’s teams were just as guilty of inconsistent effort as they were for running a crappy offense. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t have been missing blocks left and right and fumbling the ball all over the field against the likes of Maine, UAB, Tulane, etc.
This is just incorrect. Not every execution problem is caused by an effort problem. It's just not. It's like saying the difference in Steph Curry shooting 50% one night and 60% the next is that he tried 20% harder the second night. That's just not the way it works. Certainly inconsistent effort will cause execution problems, but incompetent coaching can cause execution problems even while players are playing hard.

Tell me this. Would you swap the “culture” of Croom’s 5 years for that of Hugh Freeze’s 4 years at OM?
From the outside looking, I can't see one being obviously better than the other. I think the Nkemdichees were going to be a problem and the younger was going to coast on his talent probably where ever they went. Maybe if the younger had ended up in an alabama program, he might would have shaped up before getting kicked off the team. I don't think Tunsil would have been any different. Maybe wouldn't have had a video of him smoking weed, but that would have just been luck. Treadwell? He seemed pretty internally motivated the way he came back from his injury. Don't think his problems in the NFL were lack of effort as much as just not having the athleticism to make up for not learning how to run routes in college. Bo Wallace? I think he'd have been a douche at MSU too? Hard to judge Freeze's overall culture because the most obvious guys might have been exceptions. It's possible the Nkemdichees got free rein while the rest of the team was held more or less accountable. That usually doesn't work out great but it can work ok.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
This is just incorrect. Not every execution problem is caused by an effort problem. It's just not. It's like saying the difference in Steph Curry shooting 50% one night and 60% the next is that he tried 20% harder the second night. That's just not the way it works. Certainly inconsistent effort will cause execution problems, but incompetent coaching can cause execution problems even while players are playing hard.

I never said every execution problem was an effort problem. But quite a few of them are, and we had more than our lion’s share of those under Croom. Fumbling the ball is an effort / focus problem. Not catching a perfectly thrown ball that hits you in the hands is an effort / focus problem. Not being able to open holes, pass protect, or tackle against FCS / C-USA competition when you are an SEC West team are most definitely effort / focus problems. We did all that **** on a regular basis.

From the outside looking, I can't see one being obviously better than the other. I think the Nkemdichees were going to be a problem and the younger was going to coast on his talent probably where ever they went. Maybe if the younger had ended up in an alabama program, he might would have shaped up before getting kicked off the team. I don't think Tunsil would have been any different. Maybe wouldn't have had a video of him smoking weed, but that would have just been luck. Treadwell? He seemed pretty internally motivated the way he came back from his injury. Don't think his problems in the NFL were lack of effort as much as just not having the athleticism to make up for not learning how to run routes in college. Bo Wallace? I think he'd have been a douche at MSU too? Hard to judge Freeze's overall culture because the most obvious guys might have been exceptions. It's possible the Nkemdichees got free rein while the rest of the team was held more or less accountable. That usually doesn't work out great but it can work ok.

This just proves that your definition of “culture” is quite different than mine. It seems that you are choosing all the outward facing aspects of a program to judge what the culture is. Who gets arrested, NCAA issues, bravado / party reputation, etc. In terms of all that, OM was the Wild West under Freeze....no question.

But as far as what actually happened between the sidelines on the practice field, during games, and in offseason workouts, they were a machine. Probably the worst loss Hugh Freeze had in 4 years was to a 9-4 Memphis team in 2015 that started out 8-0 before Fuente started job shopping. They played above their overall talent level far more often than not. Because in the midst of the public chaos, they were able to get extremely high end effort out of the whole roster. High level competition in practice, nobody feeling safe about their job and showing up ready to work to get better....they were able to get there. That is the real “culture” that matters. Croom never in 5 years was able to figure out how to get guys to do the little things right all the time that they needed to to become winners. If he did, we wouldn’t have dropped off so precipitously in 2008 after finally having what many saw as a breakthrough year in 2007. That’s why his culture sucked. Freeze and Mullen both were able to do it practically from Day 1.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,177
5,721
113
I never said every execution problem was an effort problem.
The fact that not every execution is an effort problem shows that your statement that you can't have ****** coaching without also having inconsistent effort is incorrect.


But quite a few of them are, and we had more than our lion’s share of those under Croom. Fumbling the ball is an effort / focus problem. Not catching a perfectly thrown ball that hits you in the hands is an effort / focus problem. Not being able to open holes, pass protect, or tackle against FCS / C-USA competition when you are an SEC West team are most definitely effort / focus problems. We did all that **** on a regular basis.
This is just one of those things you aren't going to understand, but technique matters in executing football plays and technique can be taught. So you can just put your players behind the 8 ball by teaching them poor technique. Schemes also matter. You can put your players in a better position to succeed through scheme and playcalling.



This just proves that your definition of “culture” is quite different than mine.

My definition of culture leans more towards the actual definition in the dictionary.

It seems that you are choosing all the outward facing aspects of a program to judge what the culture is. Who gets arrested, NCAA issues, bravado / party reputation, etc. In terms of all that, OM was the Wild West under Freeze....no question.
I am not focused on the outward facing aspects. I can only give examples from things that make it out since I didn't play for Freeze nor do I have an in with anybody that did. But who gets arrested for what and what the consequences are part of the culture, as is who takes preparation seriously. And you're correct, Freeze's culture was not good on those measures. Of course, it wasn't really good with Crooms either. We probably didn't let anybody have the run that the Nkemdichees did, but I don't know that for a fact.

But as far as what actually happened between the sidelines on the practice field, during games, and in offseason workouts, they were a machine. Probably the worst loss Hugh Freeze had in 4 years was to a 9-4 Memphis team in 2015 that started out 8-0 before Fuente started job shopping. They played above their overall talent level far more often than not. Because in the midst of the public chaos, they were able to get extremely high end effort out of the whole roster. High level competition in practice, nobody feeling safe about their job and showing up ready to work to get better....they were able to get there. That is the real “culture” that matters. Croom never in 5 years was able to figure out how to get guys to do the little things right all the time that they needed to to become winners. If he did, we wouldn’t have dropped off so precipitously in 2008 after finally having what many saw as a breakthrough year in 2007. That’s why his culture sucked. Freeze and Mullen both were able to do it practically from Day 1.

This is laughable. The Nkemdichees were not worried about their jobs. Even the less talented Nkemdichee got to go pretty hard on drugs with no consequences until he was injured and/or having a health issues from them. Maybe Freeze held other people accountable. Hard to say from teh outside. But obviously he had culture issues that mattered beyond what you are identifying as culture, which is just win loss record, because he'd still be there if there wsn't such a thing as culture aside from win loss records. He's a really good coach that went 5-7 his last year, including a 38-17 loss to a 6-7 Vanderbilt squad and a 55-20 loss at home to a 6-7 MSU squad.
 
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