Alabama can't lose right now.......

[JML105]

I was aware that there were two public high schools and also aware that Cleveland's reward for having the most integrated public school system in the Mississippi Delta was a federal lawsuit ordering them to cut it out. Just like some people would rather all poor students in a ****** school district be stuck rather than try things that might not help all of them, they'd apparently rather have a perfectly segregated school system if the next option is an imperfectly integrated one. I don't know how good or bad the Cleveland school district is, but it seems crazy to me that people went out of their way to sue the most integrated and successful public school district in the delta. I guess I'm just unprincipled, but I would have said let's try to copy the most successful school district, even if it's not perfect, rather than sue it. But I would also be willing to let poor people have some of the same options as people with money when it comes to being able to go to the school of their choice.

I don't even know where to begin with this. Leaders in Cleveland have been trying their hardest for years to remain segregated by keeping two high schools even though the district can't afford it. Seriously, why do you think there are two high schools and middle schools there? So you want that model copied? What?! Talk about going back in time, lol. You are all over the place man.

So you think black parents are like, "17 the kids; we're just going to keep them in an inadequate school rather than send them to a private school we can afford or move to a better district."??? I will concede that I don't know any parents that send their kids to inadequate schools, so it's certainly possible that is common, but I know parents of pretty much any background you can think of that either send their kid to private school or bought their house primarily based on the school district it was in. Although all of the schools in our district are adequate and our kids could go to any one, they are still pretty strongly sorted based on socioeconomic factors. While there is certainly overlap at the lower socioeconomic status, basically all the very high socioeconomic status families are in one of the two best schools at any age group.

So looking at the numbers, why isn't there a higher percentage of minorities in private schools then? Are you saying that you believe that less than 1% of the minority population in this state can afford to send their kids to private schools? If that were the case, we would have an even bigger problem than we think.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

BA changed to UCS when it moved from Brandon to Flowood back in the 1990s / early 2000s. Not sure of the reasoning behind that other than just to change the name since it was no longer in Brandon. Then Pinelake bought it and changed the name to Hartfield. Really, I see Hartfield, and even UCS as being different schools than the old BA, even though technically that's where they came from.

I think UCA shut down. Then Pinelake bought it and started their own school. I don't think Hartfield is related at all to UCA/BA, other than the building.

 

[JML105]

I grew up in the 60s-70s and was in the thick of the segregation saga. I attended and graduated from one of these 'segregation academies' and their founding was exactly that. They were started to maintain segregation and that was a bad thing. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and today, while there are not many takers, most if not all private schools freely and gladly admit anyone willing to pay the tuition and follow the rules.

I would venture to say that if the attitudes of today existed back in the day the private schools would have never been a thing. But they were and they were started but there is a different dynamic today. The private schools remain open first of all because of 'tradition'. Several generations have attended and folks want their kids & grandkids to experience good old 'whatever high' The second reason is also for segregation but a different kind. A public school cannot deny enrollment of trouble makers but a private school sure can. I understand that the public school system would benefit from more students who are engaged along with their families but the question is would those students be better off? That answer has to be yes at a level that makes it not worth paying tuition and shuttering schools that are beloved and attended by several generations. That is a tough sell.

Good take. I would add that a lot of private schools remain popular among Christian households because those parents want the Bible incorporated in their children's education. That is noble justification.

What isn't noble justification, however, are parents that truly don't want their kids associating with less fortunate minority kids. Say what you want, but this mindset is sadly still very much alive in our state. Not crying racism @Russ, it's just the environment we live in. It is getting better with time, but there is no shame in discussing it openly in an effort to help potentially enlighten some folks. The reason I harp on this is to say that since our state has a rather large minority population compared to others, it behooves us to actively try and equal things by intentionally changing the way we operate intuitions like schools.

 

[WilCoDawg]

To answer both of your questions: It should be but won’t be.

 

[thekimmer]

Concerning schools, as long as our school systems remain essentially segregated, we will never break through. I don't know of any other state in which almost every county has a prominent private school that is 99% white, while their public schools are majority black. I don't know the answer, but I know this ain't helping matters at all.

There are more private schools per capita in AL and LA than MS. Not sure about racial make-up.

 

[patdog]

Nope. Pinelake bought UCS to merge it in with their existing elementary school.

 

[JML105]

There are more private schools per capita in AL and LA than MS. Not sure about racial make-up.

LA with Catholic schools, yes.

According to the google I searched, MS has more than AL per capita.

 

[johnson86-1]

I don't even know where to begin with this. Leaders in Cleveland have been trying their hardest for years to remain segregated by keeping two high schools even though the district can't afford it.

Man, the leaders in Cleveland must be really dumb, because all the other towns in the Delta managed to get completely segregated schools just by letting the public schools be ******. Amazing to me that they couldn't figure that out.

Seriously, why do you think there are two high schools and middle schools there? So you want that model copied? What?! Talk about going back in time, lol. You are all over the place man.

The model with roughly 30% of its high school population being white? Yes, I think that's much healthier for a town and the state compared to the model used in every other delta town where basically zero percent of the white students with options stay in the public high school. Much more importantly, at the end of the day, Cleveland is probably the best city in the delta to be a poor person in because it offers a satisfactory public high school (actually two of them, as I think the virtually all black high school actually performed better on state proficiency tests than the roughly 50/50 school, although the 50/50 school did have better average ACT scores). I'm not going to criticize Cleveland's leadership when they have done more to provide opportunities to Cleveland's poor students than any other town in the Delta.

So looking at the numbers, why isn't there a higher percentage of minorities in private schools then? Are you saying that you believe that less than 1% of the minority population in this state can afford to send their kids to private schools? If that were the case, we would have an even bigger problem than we think.

No, because there are plenty of public schools in Mississippi that offer adequate educations. There aren't very many black families that choose to send their kids to private school because it's much easier to get to a place with an adequate public school. The hardest place to find an adequate public school in the state is in the delta, and not very many people there can afford to drop $5k-$7k a year per child on private school. I suspect a lot of the students in private school in the delta are getting tuition paid in part by grandparents, because while there are certainly affluent people in the delta, there are plenty of non-affluent white people also, and they still largely find a way to get to private school if they are not in Cleveland.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

That's awesome for you but you are, to some degree (if it's small or large is up for debate), sacrificing your children's education for your principles. Noble? Absolutely. But not everyone wants to make that decision and I respect that.

If someone wants to pay for their children to be educated in a certain way, I don't hold it against them. Ultimately you have to answer to God for how you raise your children so whatever decisions parents make, I'm down to let them make it.

Also, I'm a public school graduate. If that matters.

 

[JML105]

Man, the leaders in Cleveland must be really dumb, because all the other towns in the Delta managed to get completely segregated schools just by letting the public schools be ******. Amazing to me that they couldn't figure that out.

The model with roughly 30% of its high school population being white? Yes, I think that's much healthier for a town and the state compared to the model used in every other delta town where basically zero percent of the white students with options stay in the public high school. Much more importantly, at the end of the day, Cleveland is probably the best city in the delta to be a poor person in because it offers a satisfactory public high school (actually two of them, as I think the virtually all black high school actually performed better on state proficiency tests than the roughly 50/50 school, although the 50/50 school did have better average ACT scores). I'm not going to criticize Cleveland's leadership when they have done more to provide opportunities to Cleveland's poor students than any other town in the Delta.

All I can say is that you would actually have to live there to truly understand how things operate there. Not saying there aren't some good people in Cleveland because there are, but in large part that town is still operated like the "old south". Just because it's good for the Delta don't make it good.

No, because there are plenty of public schools in Mississippi that offer adequate educations. There aren't very many black families that choose to send their kids to private school because it's much easier to get to a place with an adequate public school. The hardest place to find an adequate public school in the state is in the delta, and not very many people there can afford to drop $5k-$7k a year per child on private school. I suspect a lot of the students in private school in the delta are getting tuition paid in part by grandparents, because while there are certainly affluent people in the delta, there are plenty of non-affluent white people also, and they still largely find a way to get to private school if they are not in Cleveland.

But you said... never mind.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Good take. I would add that a lot of private schools remain popular among Christian households because those parents want the Bible incorporated in their children's education. That is noble justification.

What isn't noble justification, however, are parents that truly don't want their kids associating with less fortunate minority kids. Say what you want, but this mindset is sadly still very much alive in our state. Not crying racism @Russ, it's just the environment we live in. It is getting better with time, but there is no shame in discussing it openly in an effort to help potentially enlighten some folks. The reason I harp on this is to say that since our state has a rather large minority population compared to others, it behooves us to actively try and equal things by intentionally changing the way we operate intuitions like schools.

We agree here. The future is together, whether or not the racists like it or not, at least it is if any of us want a decent America.

 

[johnson86-1]

Good take. I would add that a lot of private schools remain popular among Christian households because those parents want the Bible incorporated in their children's education. That is noble justification.

What isn't noble justification, however, are parents that truly don't want their kids associating with less fortunate minority kids. Say what you want, but this mindset is sadly still very much alive in our state. Not crying racism @Russ, it's just the environment we live in. It is getting better with time, but there is no shame in discussing it openly in an effort to help potentially enlighten some folks. The reason I harp on this is to say that since our state has a rather large minority population compared to others, it behooves us to actively try and equal things by intentionally changing the way we operate intuitions like schools.

That surely true to an extent (I think we'd probably have different guesses as to how prevalent that mindset is), but I think you are overestimating people's willingness to pay for that benefit. A dirt cheap private school for 12 grades is going to cost you $60k per kid. Median family income in Mississippi is under $60k. So if you have two kids, it's going to take over 16% of your gross salary to keep them in a dirt cheap private school, before you get hit up for any extra payments. A more typical (I think) $7k per child would be >23% of the median families gross income. That is very tough financially for most folks. If you give them an option that they think is safe for their kids, they will largely take it. It's why you see plenty of places that have integrated elementary schools feed into middle schools and then high schools that become basically completely segregated. They don't suddenly become more racist when their kids get to jr high. It's just that when the kids get to an age where dysfunctional home situations of some children are more likely to impact others in the school, parents want to shield their children and keep them in a bubble and are willing to spend more money to do so.

 

[RocketDawg]

That one of the main complaints I have heard about Space Command coming to HSV, along with increased traffic and the jobs the majority of jobs coming with Space Command will not be filled by local residents (IDK how true that is though).

I don't think anybody here is complaining about increased traffic (it's recognized as something that will happen - the main complaints are with ALDOT not keeping up with progress) or non-local people taking the jobs. Everybody recognizes the impact but see it as positive.

 

[RocketDawg]

I've not heard anybody that lives here, either public official or resident, complaning about moving them here. Everybody sees it as a positive.

I'm still not sure if they're talking about Trump's new military branch called Space Force, or the Space Command that's been a part of the Air Force for many years. Everybody (media particularly) keeps calling it Space Command, but I think they mean Space Force, which is temporarily headquartered in Colorado. They're not talking about moving the Space Command out of Colorado. I also think the whole thing is a political football, including the existence of the Space Force, as well as the headquarters location.

The Colorado governor is raising Cain in a letter to Biden, calling it a political move (headquartering in Huntsville), and I fully expect Biden to either cancel the move here, or cancel Space Force altogether. The site was chosen by the AF Secretary, by the way - not Trump. Not saying he didn't have some input though ....

 

[RocketDawg]

Wouldn't this be properly interpreted as racism and/or bullying?

Do the teachers at the school witness this sort of behavior?

If I was the teacher and witnessed this behavior, then I'd nail those 17ers.

And you'd probably be fired if you did.

 

[RocketDawg]

lol space force won't be around long enough to see 2022

Agree. Perhaps cynically, but I agree.

I also think you intended your reply to be somewhere else in this thread.

 

[thekimmer]

That’s where I got my numbers....

LA with Catholic schools, yes.

According to the google I searched, MS has more than AL per capita.

Calculated from your data.

Population per private school. MS 11.6K. AL 10.7K

I suppose it changes a bit if you calculate pop per private school student
MS 57. AL 60 but either way it’s essentially the same.

Again, no analysis of racial makeup but even if it is a parochial school, if it is predominantly white how is the effect on public schools any different?