Alabama can't lose right now.......

[paindonthurt_]

How does getting rid of the private school system help? Serious question?

Want people to pick public over private? Have better public options.

How do you have better public options? Stop trying to throw money at it and throw discipline at it.

No parent of any color who cares abt their kids education is going to send their kid to a school where chaos thrives.

Also, stop trying to prepare every kid for college. By 10th grade it should be easy to narrow down who might go to college and who definitely isn’t gonna succeed there.

 

[paindonthurt_]

That’s not a private school problem.

That’s a cultural or parent problem.

Would you send your kids to a first grade class room that has 20 students and 15 of them don’t give a damn and act like hooligans?

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

Concerning schools, as long as our school systems remain essentially segregated, we will never break through. I don't know of any other state in which almost every county has a prominent private school that is 99% white, while their public schools are majority black. I don't know the answer, but I know this ain't helping matters at all.

I attended a segregation private school in a poor MS county. Our county public schools would have been much better with the full community bought in and attending.

My kids are going to public school and we’ll be involved. That is the only way that schools get better.

 

[JML105]

How does getting rid of the private school system help? Serious question?

Want people to pick public over private? Have better public options.

How do you have better public options? Stop trying to throw money at it and throw discipline at it.

No parent of any color who cares abt their kids education is going to send their kid to a school where chaos thrives.

Also, stop trying to prepare every kid for college. By 10th grade it should be easy to narrow down who might go to college and who definitely isn’t gonna succeed there.

Thought I was pretty clear about how I think it would help. Not saying it would magically change overnight, but Mississippi has some of the worst public schools in our country yet has among the highest number of private schools per capita. This isn’t a “chicken or the egg” type of conundrum. Our public school system began degrading when integration began because the money and attention started going to private schools to remain segregated.

 

[JML105]

That’s not a private school problem.

That’s a cultural or parent problem.

Would you send your kids to a first grade class room that has 20 students and 15 of them don’t give a damn and act like hooligans?

What created that culture?

 

[JML105]

I attended a segregation private school in a poor MS county. Our county public schools would have been much better with the full community bought in and attending.

My kids are going to public school and we’ll be involved. That is the only way that schools get better.

Have a towel whip. ^ This is how we get better.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Mississippi has some of the worst public schools so let’s shut down private schools and send our kids to the ****$y public schools.

Well that’s certainly a strategy.

 

[paindonthurt_]

I’m guessing the children and parents who attend the school?

 

[paindonthurt_]

Would you send your kids to that first grade class with 15/20 “bad” students?

 

[paindonthurt_]

A much more modest goal would just be making sure that no children were denied the opportunity to receive an adequate education in a safe environment just because their parents are poor.

What makes the environment unsafe? It’s the students who are there making it unsafe.

So how do you make it safe? How abt getting rid of the “unsafe” students.

It’s a tough sell politically Bc you have to tell people it’s unsafe for the actual reason it is unsafe. The students who make it unsafe.

 

[grinnindawg]

"manufactured". Chrysler has been gone for years, along with their engineering design center. Remington did move into one of their old buildings by the airport. Remington didn't hire the number of people the tax break they got specified. So, I believe HSV is suing a bankrupt company. Always works out well.

 

[grinnindawg]

Delphi/Saginaw was the GM plant near Athens. There was a Tecumseh small engine plant by the airport. GE or ITT was the phone manufacturer. There were 3 electronic contract manufacturers. UDS/Motorola had ~1000 manufacturing employees. Sumitomo still has a building with a sign at the test track at the old Dunlop plant.


Now in the area are: Toyota engine plant, Navistar engines, LG home appliances, Line-X...

Found a lot of companies I didn't know about:
https://cm.hsvchamber.org/list/category/manufacturing-industry-475
https://cm.hsvchamber.org/list/category/technology-r-d-4568

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

I attended a segregation private school in a poor MS county. Our county public schools would have been much better with the full community bought in and attending.

My kids are going to public school and we’ll be involved. That is the only way that schools get better.

Your intentions are noble.. but the fact is, depending on where you are, your kids will be behind the private school students. I don’t know what all you intend to “be involved”, but I highly doubt you will be able to get subpar teachers fired, and keep everyone from trying to get to the “central office” so they can get a cushy job with high pay. It is ludicrous that relatively low population counties have 3 or more school district offices. That hemorrhages money they keep telling everyone they need.

Only when you suggest merging districts to save money, it’s NOOOO, we can’t do that! We have to have a fully staffed Superintendent’s office for 1,500 to 2000 students! Never mind what they do in other states that are successful!

A start to fixing the public school system in MS is merging schools and merging districts. There is no damn sense in having a school in Prentiss county MS graduate less than 20 seniors. But they do. That’s a waste of resources.

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

Your intentions are noble.. but the fact is, depending on where you are, your kids will be behind the private school students. I don’t know what all you intend to “be involved”, but I highly doubt you will be able to get subpar teachers fired, and keep everyone from trying to get to the “central office” so they can get a cushy job with high pay. It is ludicrous that relatively low population counties have 3 or more school district offices. That hemorrhages money they keep telling everyone they need.

Only when you suggest merging districts to save money, it’s NOOOO, we can’t do that! We have to have a fully staffed Superintendent’s office for 1,500 to 2000 students! Never mind what they do in other states that are successful!

A start to fixing the public school system in MS is merging schools and merging districts. There is no damn sense in having a school in Prentiss county MS graduate less than 20 seniors. But they do. That’s a waste of resources.

The first step is getting everyone in your community to care about what happens to the schools. Right now in most MS districts the “rich” talk about how happy they are their kids don’t go to the public schools. Instead if all those people talked and complained about the public schools things would change.

You are right about the districts as well. Most tiny towns have a district along with the county. That is a waste, but the culture in MS is what is broken. Find a way to fix the culture by getting everyone involved and things will change for the better.

 

[RocketDawg]

Navistar is building a pretty large new building by the airport. I see it every day we play golf there. Don't know if it'll be corporate type offices or manufacturing.

 

[JML105]

Mississippi has some of the worst public schools so let’s shut down private schools and send our kids to the ****$y public schools.

Well that’s certainly a strategy.

Like I said, I know it's not an overnight fix but we need to start looking at how we can get more students into public schools.

I’m guessing the children and parents who attend the school?

Why?

Would you send your kids to that first grade class with 15/20 “bad” students?

If that was the only option or I couldn't afford private school I would have to. Along with every other parent, thus changing the "good"/"bad" ratio. That's the idea.

A much more modest goal would just be making sure that no children were denied the opportunity to receive an adequate education in a safe environment just because their parents are poor.

What makes the environment unsafe? It’s the students who are there making it unsafe.

So how do you make it safe? How abt getting rid of the “unsafe” students.

It’s a tough sell politically Bc you have to tell people it’s unsafe for the actual reason it is unsafe. The students who make it unsafe.

"Get rid of unsafe students"? Not sure what this actually means. Doesn't sound like a viable solution. What is a more viable solution is increasing the ratio of students and parents who care which over time will start to positively effect the environment and make the pendulum swing.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

The first step is getting everyone in your community to care about what happens to the schools. Right now in most MS districts the “rich” talk about how happy they are their kids don’t go to the public schools. Instead if all those people talked and complained about the public schools things would change.

You are right about the districts as well. Most tiny towns have a district along with the county. That is a waste, but the culture in MS is what is broken. Find a way to fix the culture by getting everyone involved and things will change for the better.

These are problems that simply don't matter. If there was any economic drivers in said area, the schools would take care of themselves. You're basically squabbling over scraps when you start complaining about 'schools', your area has already descended into a bad place at that point.

A superintendent here, a superintendent there, who cares? 'Resources' don't matter with schools, they'll get wasted anyway most likely. We've been throwing money at schools for years and they never get better.

You really need workforce training centers, tech centers, things like that. That's how you train the workforce. Vicksburg is building one now.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Looks like they jumped the gun on the announcement. Seems the Air Force wanted it in Colorado Springs but Trump wanted it in Alabama. Might get overturned.

Point still stands. HSV (and AL) seem to be winning all the economic battles.

 

[EagleDawg97]

It’s the parents that are the problem. It doesn’t matter how much money and resources you pump into a school if there is no discipline and respect in the home, you will not succeed. Yes, a few kids can rise above their home life, but most will simply be taught how to game the system and be a lifer on the government handout programs. Until you get involved parents in the MS public schools that give a damn, you will not improve the schools. It’s really that simple.

A couple things we can do to improve the situation:
- stop trying to make every kid college ready, too many useless degrees being earned and far to few essential tradesmen being trained. Re build votec at public schools and allow students to work on trades again.
- put the smartest kids in the same classrooms, this is not politically correct.........but dumb kids don’t learn at the same pace as smart ones
- fire underperforming teachers. If they suck at their job, they need to go and make room for someone with a passion for molding young minds.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Great post and want to clue into this in particular:

- put the smartest kids in the same classrooms, this is not politically correct.........but dumb kids don’t learn at the same pace as smart ones

This is true, and it's going to happen one way or another. I mean, look at all the complaining in this thread....parents have already taken their kids out of the classrooms when the 'mean' is very dumb, via private schools, moving to a better school, or homeschooling.

 

[JML105]

Great post and want to clue into this in particular:


This is true, and it's going to happen one way or another. I mean, look at all the complaining in this thread....parents have already taken their kids out of the classrooms when the 'mean' is very dumb, via private schools, moving to a better school, or homeschooling.

-Cringe- This is not a good take if I'm reading what you're saying correctly.... Poor/Underprivileged does not equal dumb. There are plenty of "dumb" kids in private school as well. It's this kind of thinking that sets us back. Be better man.

 

[patdog]

If you look at the top public school districts in the state, one thing they almost all have in common is no significant segregationist-era academy presence. I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

-Cringe- This is not a good take if I'm reading what you're saying correctly.... Poor/Underprivileged does not equal dumb. There are plenty of "dumb" kids in private school as well. It's this kind of thinking that sets us back. Be better man.

Quite trying so hard to find something to "cringe" about. Bottom line, this stuff is just reality. Dumb might have been the wrong word to use, but I'm just trying to generalize. Let's say "don't care" instead, is that alright with you?

You get stuck in these details and you can't see the forest from the trees. It's like travel baseball - the demand is there for a reason, even though ideally we'd all love to put our kids in the rec league and let them play like the glory days. The reality is, some are above that level and want better competition. It's reality - either accept or be perpetually angry like you are now and call other people cringeworthy or whatever.

 

[JML105]

Quite trying so hard to find something to "cringe" about. Bottom line, this stuff is just reality. Dumb might have been the wrong word to use, but I'm just trying to generalize. Let's say "don't care" instead, is that alright with you?

You get stuck in these details and you can't see the forest from the trees. It's like travel baseball - the demand is there for a reason, even though ideally we'd all love to put our kids in the rec league and let them play like the glory days. The reality is, some are above that level and want better competition. It's reality - either accept or be perpetually angry like you are now and call other people cringeworthy or whatever.

Not hard to cringe about what you wrote. Perpetually angry? lol.

You think travel ball is to help the one's at a higher level? Talk about not seeing forest for the trees! Travel ball is there to create revenue. Has nothing to do with individual kid's talents. Come on man.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Not hard to cringe about what you wrote. Perpetually angry? lol.

You think travel ball is to help the one's at a higher level? Talk about not seeing forest for the trees! Travel ball is there to create revenue. Has nothing to do with individual kid's talents. Come on man.

Wrong. Revenue creation came AFTER. Some folks saw the demand and created a way to profit off the demand. There would be no profit if the parents weren't willing to pay the money for better competition. That's how it works. The people who make money didn't devise an evil plan in order to coax parents into paying them. Same way with the schools. They exist because parents were tired of the public school, and they didn't want to move. You have to accept this or you won't even move beyond your current tunnel thinking.

Another example: Birmingham and Mountain Brook. MB incorporated way back in the day to get away from B'ham and its troubles. B'ham proponents today want B'ham and Mountain Brook to combine public services. There is ZERO incentive for MB to do this, and B'ham gets ALL the advantages of more resources. So why would they? They left for a reason, why give something back for no return?

Why would you expect parents to put their kids back in a failing school, that they already left one time before? Answer that question. For the good of the town? The town went downhill decades before that and is beyond the control of any parents.

 

[johnson86-1]

A much more modest goal would just be making sure that no children were denied the opportunity to receive an adequate education in a safe environment just because their parents are poor.

What makes the environment unsafe? It’s the students who are there making it unsafe.

So how do you make it safe? How abt getting rid of the “unsafe” students.

It’s a tough sell politically Bc you have to tell people it’s unsafe for the actual reason it is unsafe. The students who make it unsafe.

Well, that is a part of charter schools' success. They are allowed to hold students accountable. Existing public schools have alternative schools but in the worst places, they'd probably need more than half their students sent there. The creation of magnet schools is sort of the opposite approach. Instead of getting rid of the disruptive students they give better students an alternative. Better than nothing but usually not enough.

 

[JML105]

They exist because parents were tired of the public school, and they didn't want to move. You have to accept this or you won't even move beyond your current tunnel thinking.

Not why they exist. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the dialogue.

 

[stateu1]

-
- put the smartest kids in the same classrooms, this is not politically correct.........but dumb kids don’t learn at the same pace as smart ones

Public schools are ding this somewhat with Advanced Placement classes.

 

[johnson86-1]

Like I said, I know it's not an overnight fix but we need to start looking at how we can get more students into public schools.

Why?? What is the obsession with public schools? THey're just buildings and employees. What is important is that children are provided an opportunity to get an education. Our existing public schools don't do that in a lot of cases and in a lot of cases haven't done so for decades. I mean, it's fine to get kids into public schools. My kids will go to public schools as long as they're a good option, which if things don't change will be through high school, but there's nothing magic about them being public. If our public schools turned ****** tomorrow, I'd be perfectly fine setting them on fire and using the money saved to give students vouchers. Just whatever will get them educated or at least give them an opportunity to be educated, even if they don't have money.

Why?

I mean, if parents aren't largely responsible for how kindergarteners and first graders act, then that's a good indication of the problem right there.

If that was the only option or I couldn't afford private school I would have to. Along with every other parent, thus changing the "good"/"bad" ratio. That's the idea.

The idea is to find a way to force students into ****** schools and hope they get better? Aside from the impracticality of forcing students into any school (except for those too poor for other options), why focus on moving students into ****** schools rather than moving students from ****** schools?

"Get rid of unsafe students"? Not sure what this actually means.

It usually means sending students to alternative schools. Not sure if every district has those or not.

Doesn't sound like a viable solution. What is a more viable solution is increasing the ratio of students and parents who care which over time will start to positively effect the environment and make the pendulum swing.

How do you view that as more viable? How many situations do you know of where that has happened? I'm sure there are exceptions, but every public school I know of that has gone bad has stayed bad. I know why we haven't allowed poor people the option of attending better schools. We have just blocked that with politics. What has stopped us from turning bad schools around other than the difficulty of getting good parents to send their children to bad schools?

 

[johnson86-1]

If the manufacturers would put in more rural areas they would have an overflow for those jobs. A lot of people don't want to live around Jackson.

Most smaller towns lost all their manufacturers to NAFTA in the 90's.

You would think, but I know plenty of employers in rural areas with allegedly high unemployment that have trouble getting people that can pass a drug test and will show up consistently during hunting season. And once you have an employer leave for that reason, it is really hard to get site selectors, who have a ton of influence on these things, to give you a serious look.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

This is correct. Unified community involvement not only helps schools but attracts business interests.

 

[mstateglfr]

It’s the parents that are the problem. It doesn’t matter how much money and resources you pump into a school if there is no discipline and respect in the home, you will not succeed. Yes, a few kids can rise above their home life, but most will simply be taught how to game the system and be a lifer on the government handout programs. Until you get involved parents in the MS public schools that give a damn, you will not improve the schools. It’s really that simple.

A couple things we can do to improve the situation:
- stop trying to make every kid college ready, too many useless degrees being earned and far to few essential tradesmen being trained. Re build votec at public schools and allow students to work on trades again.
- put the smartest kids in the same classrooms, this is not politically correct.........but dumb kids don’t learn at the same pace as smart ones
- fire underperforming teachers. If they suck at their job, they need to go and make room for someone with a passion for molding young minds.

In general, I cant disagree with any of your 3 points. Better said- I agree with them.

Each is a delicate balance though.

- Kids who are sent into a trade as a teen can seriously limit exposure to other possibilities that they dont even know exist. Education exists to prepare kids for the future, yes, but it neednt exist just to sent them on career paths at 16. Education should exist to prepare kids to live and thrive in a democratic society. Thats pretty general, but its true. How that preparation takes place is forever debated. I am not sure if limiting teens to focus on a trade is the best approach. They can easily do that after high school or through community college. Its argued on here from time to time, but college continues to be one of the best ways to create upward mobility. It just is, regardless of how many want to place qualifications on that reality.
Preparing for a trade is great, but so is preparing kids to manage themselves or others in a trade. That requires business, finance, and management learning.

- Why arent the smartest kids being placed in the same classrooms come Middle School? Of course there should be advanced/honors/AP classes. What kind of 17ed us districts dont have these? Seriously now, does Mississippi not have these programs in MS and HS?

- If teachers are underperforming, then yes they need to be replaced. How they are evaluated needs to make sense though. If a teacher has a class where 2/3 of students are behind the average for reading and math, then the teacher shouldnt simply be viewed as underperforming if the kids score poorly on the standardized tests. Also, how should students be compared?...to district average or state average? That also affects how a teacher is viewed, if performance is evaluated in a simple way.
Teacher performance needs to be more than just standardized test results, it needs to be qualitative and quantitative. And that personalization of performance is what can be so difficult with unions also involved.



I am really stunned that it sounds like there arent advanced/honors/AP classes in every district in MS.

 

[mstateglfr]

Quite trying so hard to find something to "cringe" about. Bottom line, this stuff is just reality. Dumb might have been the wrong word to use, but I'm just trying to generalize. Let's say "don't care" instead, is that alright with you?

You get stuck in these details and you can't see the forest from the trees. It's like travel baseball - the demand is there for a reason, even though ideally we'd all love to put our kids in the rec league and let them play like the glory days. The reality is, some are above that level and want better competition. It's reality - either accept or be perpetually angry like you are now and call other people cringeworthy or whatever.

Dont make cringeworthy comments and people wont cringe. You even acknowledge that 'dumb' may not be the correct word to use- well what made the post cringeworthy was using that word.

Your example sucks. Its seriously awful. Worse than usual for you, really.
Comparing private schools to high competition travel sports is absurd. Some private schools are academically excellent and could absolutely be compared to high competition travel sports, but a whole **** ton(actual number) of private schools are academically quite unimpressive. Back in college, it was always interesting to learn who went to private schools. What they had learned and not learned was continually surprising.

Pillow Academy or North Sunflower Academy were not created and do not exist as a means to educate at a challenging and high level.

 

[JML105]

Why?? What is the obsession with public schools? THey're just buildings and employees. What is important is that children are provided an opportunity to get an education. Our existing public schools don't do that in a lot of cases and in a lot of cases haven't done so for decades. I mean, it's fine to get kids into public schools. My kids will go to public schools as long as they're a good option, which if things don't change will be through high school, but there's nothing magic about them being public. If our public schools turned ****** tomorrow, I'd be perfectly fine setting them on fire and using the money saved to give students vouchers. Just whatever will get them educated or at least give them an opportunity to be educated, even if they don't have money.







I mean, if parents aren't largely responsible for how kindergarteners and first graders act, then that's a good indication of the problem right there.








The idea is to find a way to force students into ****** schools and hope they get better? Aside from the impracticality of forcing students into any school (except for those too poor for other options), why focus on moving students into ****** schools rather than moving students from ****** schools?








It usually means sending students to alternative schools. Not sure if every district has those or not.

How do you view that as more viable? How many situations do you know of where that has happened? I'm sure there are exceptions, but every public school I know of that has gone bad has stayed bad. I know why we haven't allowed poor people the option of attending better schools. We have just blocked that with politics. What has stopped us from turning bad schools around other than the difficulty of getting good parents to send their children to bad schools?

This isn't that hard of a notion to grasp. I don't know why you and a couple others are so hard pressed to argue with me. The basic point is that Mississippi will not improve in education (which leads to improving economically) until we move away from the segregated school model. I'm not talking about JPS type districts, because that is a whole other ball of wax that is common in almost every major US city. I'm talking about districts in most every rural county in the state that has a segregationist academy. I don't think it's helping to continue keeping the haves and have-nots segregated at such a young age because it's not fair for the privileged kids to have to sit in a classroom with the underprivileged. This fundamentally leads to an unbalanced and undereducated society.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Dont make cringeworthy comments and people wont cringe. You even acknowledge that 'dumb' may not be the correct word to use- well what made the post cringeworthy was using that word.

Your example sucks. Its seriously awful. Worse than usual for you, really.
Comparing private schools to high competition travel sports is absurd. Some private schools are academically excellent and could absolutely be compared to high competition travel sports, but a whole **** ton(actual number) of private schools are academically quite unimpressive. Back in college, it was always interesting to learn who went to private schools. What they had learned and not learned was continually surprising.

Pillow Academy or North Sunflower Academy were not created and do not exist as a means to educate at a challenging and high level.

Damnit, I was hoping you wouldn't show up. Thread = ruined.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Not why they exist. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the dialogue.

Call it racism. How you going to fix that? You going to make people suddenly want to drop the private school and send their kids to the public school in those areas? How? National Guard?

That's the problem. You have an ideal solution, but it just won't work, because people won't subscribe to the ideal.

 

[mstateglfr]

Damnit, I was hoping you wouldn't show up. Thread = ruined.

You have made a wildly inaccurate claim about private school education quality, made a cringeworthy comment calling the average public school kid dumb, and claimed segregationist academies exist because parents were just tired of public school...but I ruined the thread.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

This isn't that hard of a notion to grasp. I don't know why you and a couple others are so hard pressed to argue with me. The basic point is that Mississippi will not improve in education (which leads to improving economically) until we move away from the segregated school model. I'm not talking about JPS type districts, because that is a whole other ball of wax that is common in almost every major US city. I'm talking about districts in most every rural county in the state that has a segregationist academy. I don't think it's helping to continue keeping the haves and have-nots segregated at such a young age because it's not fair for the privileged kids to have to sit in a classroom with the underprivileged. This fundamentally leads to an unbalanced and undereducated society.

It wouldn't even move the needle. You act like it's all about race. Starkville High School is like 70/30 black to white right now. If Starkville Academy shut down, SHS would be like 65/35 black to white. Who cares? You think those very few white students will make a difference? If you do, then YOU are the racist!

This isn't 1970 anymore. Many black students attend these private schools now. And again, who cares what's happening in Belzoni? They aren't getting an economic win anytime soon. They are farming catfish, that's it.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

You have made a wildly inaccurate claim about private school education quality, made a cringeworthy comment calling the average public school kid dumb, and claimed segregationist academies exist because parents were just tired of public school...but I ruined the thread.

Have a busted lip.

 

[JML105]

Call it racism. How you going to fix that? You going to make people suddenly want to drop the private school and send their kids to the public school in those areas? How? National Guard?

That's the problem. You have an ideal solution, but it just won't work, because people won't subscribe to the ideal.

No, not the NG. Stop being so extreme. I think that we could collectively devise some ways to move away from academys and to public schools over time. Like I said, I'm not in tune enough to know the specifics on how to get there, but I bet if our State leaders recognized this as a set back they would begin the effort proactively.

Btw, thank you for recognizing this as an ideal solution at least.