Why are there so many catholic democrats?

[HeCannotGo]

Catholicism has deep ties to social justice (not in its current form). Catholicism is more supportive of giving to the poor, ect. The pro-life movement and Supreme Court justices are almost exclusively a fetishism of white, Evangelical Protestants.

Supreme Court consists of six Catholics and three Jews. Gorsuch could be considered Episcopalian rather than Catholic, but not an evangelical in either case.

if this post was meant to say that evangelicals care more about the Supreme Court than others, we’ll have to agree to disagree. Evangelicals certainly care, but not as much as those on the left who have made political power their religion.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Catholicism has deep ties to social justice (not in its current form). Catholicism is more supportive of giving to the poor, ect. The pro-life movement and Supreme Court justices are almost exclusively a fetishism of white, Evangelical Protestants.

Being the voice for the voiceless is a fetish? You have a really warped reality. Abortion involves 2 lives. The woman, who can speak for herself, and the baby, who is in the line of fire. Christians are called to be supporters of the oppressed. That's not a fetish.

I have respect for people who see it as a very challenging issue and believe there is a need for early term abortion in cases of rape, or if the mother's health is in question.

I have no respect for people who are just evil and literally celebrate the death of a baby and those who use abortion as birth control rather than using contraceptives to prevent pregnancy.

How much voting power have minority populations lost through just abortion? Consider NYNY where thousands more black babies are aborted than born live. It is practical genocide even if not intended that way.

Consider the murder of a pregnant woman that commonly results in double murder charges. It's OK to murder the baby, but ONLY if it is by a doctor who has permission from the mother to kill it.

Consider a country where destroying sea turtle eggs is illegal and results in fines, but abortion is celebrated by many, talked up on award shows as a great career booster.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I suspect that it was out of necessary compassion for women in bad places through no fault of their own, but that has gone from a really hard decision with serious consideration to a license to do whatever you want up to the moment of birth in some places. I doubt they ever envisioned a country where babies would have to be destroyed in grotesque ways to remove them from the mother. There's a reason that pro-choice folks hate it when pictures of that evil are displayed. The reality of what is happening is disgusting to any who see it. You want to see a pro-choice person get incredibly angry, force them to face the reality of a baby whose head was crushed and it was torn limb from limb for removal.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Your assertions:

-remove aid for the poor, sick and elderly - untrue; aside: how much of your time and income did you give to do just this, or do you just like to get all up in your emotions about it and talk about it like most liberals?

-remove protections from minorities, gays and other classes - Partially true; I've literally never heard anyone that I know as a Christian that would mistreat others in the name of Christ, but I've seen people who claim to be Christians do so (anybody up for protesting the latest business that supports gays? I mean Jesus did say to starve people until they come around, right?)

-do not want to protect the environment - not very well thought out. conservative, almost by definition, want some clarity on how much value there is going to be in the spend and the way that our government wastes money, it's pretty hard to sign on for giving them any more. Most Christians I know understand the need to be good stewards of the planet, but they simply don't believe that the government is any good at actual rubber hits the road kind of improvement. water into a leaky bucket.

-believe in money above all other values - untrue see below. Christians give more to both religious and secular charities. Republicans have way more heavy givers.

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ETA: re-reading my first bullet it could easily come across as me being ugly. I've just had too many conversations with liberals who are all up in arms talking about the latest real or perceived injustice, implying that they actually care, but in reality they give literally NONE of their own personal time or money. I give a lot of my personal time and money for the "least of these" and I do it for one single reason: Jesus said that i should.

 

[johnson86-1]

Get out of here with that BS. Question my politics all you want but don’t questions people’s faith. Until a party makes birth control and whacking off illegal a party affiliation is not going to align with Catholic teachings. My Democratic leanings are strongly influenced by me being more of a dove (a Catholic tenet) and concern for the least of our people (a Catholic tenet). Again, I am morally opposed to abortion but I do not believe it should be completely illegal.

Catholicism is not "Christianity". Your criticism would be fair if he said they are not real Christians. Nobody really can claim to definitively claim what Christianity is and who is a Christian. The Catholic Church is an organization with defined beliefs that does layout some basic minimums you have to believe to be Catholic. If you do not believe the dogma or doctrine of the catholic church, then that requires that you reject some some beliefs that are pretty core to the Catholic church and without which, the Catholic church (and taking guidance from the Catholic church) doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

I honestly don’t understand how a Christian can support the death penalty or abortion. The 2 kinda go along the same lines for me. I don’t think any of us should own deciding who lives and who does not, just not our place.

You should read Romans 13. I believe Paul talks explicitly about rulers not bearing the sword in vain. Tying those two issues together is reductive. An abortion is a killing for convenience, pure and simple. Now that convenience could be the life of the mother or because the child is a product of rape or incest or another justification, but at the end of the day, we're choosing who lives and dies based on convenience. The person dying has committed no crime. Capital punishment is punishment (it's right there in the name). So it's not about convenience because the person being killed has violated the law, and typically in a grievous manner. It's about retribution or justice. A simple mind might say these two issues are connected because both involve death, but they aren't as similar as you might think.

TLDR, I'm not sure how I feel about capital punishment. But I don't think it should be linked with abortion.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

That's a bingo.

 

[fishwater99]

Get out of here with that BS. Question my politics all you want but don’t questions people’s faith. Until a party makes birth control and whacking off illegal a party affiliation is not going to align with Catholic teachings. My Democratic leanings are strongly influenced by me being more of a dove (a Catholic tenet) and concern for the least of our people (a Catholic tenet). Again, I am morally opposed to abortion but I do not believe it should be completely illegal.

Your either Catholic or not, if you are a Catholic you faithfully follow the teachings of the church and the leadership from Bishops up to the Pope.

It's all or nothing, same with being a Christian.

 

[JungRebel]

I posted videos of him feigning belief, something you said he doesnt do. I could not give a **** if liberal sources or three in four Americans dont think he is a religious person, what does that have to do with it? He ISNT a religious person, he just feigns belief:

"I am a Protestant."
"The Bible is my favorite book."
"I have a great relationship with God."
Etc.

He feigns belief for political purposes, especially in front of a Liberty University crowd or an Iowa Primary audience or a National Day of Prayer gathering; to act like he doesnt is being disingenuous. Whether CNN, Politico, MSNBC, or the average american citizen considers him religious has no bearing on this.

 

[Shamoan]

its customary to address an audience on National Day of Prayer and various religious groups. Every president has done these things...as custom. lets not make that into something it is not. the bolded is a tenant of Christian faith. I am not saying he is or isnt, thats not my place, but in his own words:



He said he does not ask for forgiveness and "does not bring God into that picture" when he makes mistakes.

Donald Trump talked about his Christian faith Saturday, but said he's never sought forgiveness for his sins.
"I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't."

to drive home my point further, he is quoted as saying people are surprised when they find out he is religious, because its not something he proclaims or discusses unless asked about.


Untold hours and countless keystrokes have been spent by the left trying to craft a division between a supportive Christian base and understand why evangelicals support a president that is not one of them. to deny that fact is indeed disingenuous.

 

[Dawgg]

Your either Catholic or not, if you are a Catholic you faithfully follow the teachings of the church and the leadership from Bishops up to the Pope.

It's all or nothing, same with being a Christian.

If that's the case, then I would say that the Pope has been really damning of Trump, especially when it comes to immigration.

 

[mcdawg22]

Your either Catholic or not, if you are a Catholic you faithfully follow the teachings of the church and the leadership from Bishops up to the Pope.

It's all or nothing, same with being a Christian.

So if you don’t believe birth control is morally wrong you shouldn’t even practice as a Catholic? The Spanish Inquisition?

 

[ronpolk]

You should read Romans 13. I believe Paul talks explicitly about rulers not bearing the sword in vain. Tying those two issues together is reductive. An abortion is a killing for convenience, pure and simple. Now that convenience could be the life of the mother or because the child is a product of rape or incest or another justification, but at the end of the day, we're choosing who lives and dies based on convenience. The person dying has committed no crime. Capital punishment is punishment (it's right there in the name). So it's not about convenience because the person being killed has violated the law, and typically in a grievous manner. It's about retribution or justice. A simple mind might say these two issues are connected because both involve death, but they aren't as similar as you might think.

TLDR, I'm not sure how I feel about capital punishment. But I don't think it should be linked with abortion.

I’m not linking abortion and the death penalty together from a innocent or guilty perspective. I’m linking it together because my views on both come for the exact same reason, which is I feel I have no authority to determine the fate of someone.

I understand Romans 13. The context of that passage is important. It was written during a period when Jews were being allowed back in Rome by Nero, who at the time was promising peace. I believe that Paul was trying to promote a peace and not unrest. I do understand the interpretation that you laid out and I know a lot of people feel that way.

I don’t know the right answer to this, I just know I don’t support anybody deciding a person should die (born or unborn). I draw a lot of my feelings on this when Jesus was at the mount of olives and told the people without sin to cast the first stone on the women accused of adultery.

 

[fishwater99]

If that's the case, then I would say that the Pope has been really damning of Trump, especially when it comes to immigration.

No doubt, a true Christian would take care of people who can't take care of themselves no matter where they are from.


Matthew 25:44 - 45
"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'"

James 2:14-17
"Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

Romans 12:13
"Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality."

Proverbs 3:27
"Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to act."


Deuteronomy 15:11
"For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, 'You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.'"

 

[codeDawg]

Your either Catholic or not, if you are a Catholic you faithfully follow the teachings of the church and the leadership from Bishops up to the Pope.

It's all or nothing, same with being a Christian.

I prefer what Tim Keller has to say about being saved. It only requires Jesus, and nothing else. That goes for Catholics, Protestants and anything else. It is about Jesus, and nothing else.

 

[Shamoan]

i would argue that those that have committed murder have determined their own fate.

 

[Drebin]

Honestly I’m not sure why so many Christians are Republicans:
- Constantly trying to remove aid for the poor, sick, and elderly
- Want to remove protections from minorities, gays, and other classes discriminated against
- Do not want to protect the environment we are untrusted with
- Believe in money above all other values

I guarantee Jesus does not approve of either party’s platform.

There's not a single word in your little anti-republican rant that is even in the same zip code as truth.

Republicans don't stand for any of that. Although liberal idiots and low information voters too dumb to think for themselves sometimes are led to believe they do.

It would probably help if you cracked a book every once in a while.

 

[CreekFishin]

Do most of the anti-abortionists still oppose sex education, birth control and the morning after pill? I was a teen when Roe vs Wade came down. Before that, folks with money had options. The back alley options for poor women were not pretty. I'd love to see a world where it was never a necessary option. But just forcing it to the black market is the wrong way to get there.

 

[JungRebel]

You say it isnt something he proclaims yet I linked a video of him calling himself a Protestant unsolicited to a crowd at Liberty University. He claims to be a Christian, he says the Bible is his favorite book, he says his relationship with God is very important to him, he feigns religious belief especially when it is politically convenient. I dont give a **** what the left thinks about it. There is no point discussing this further, I've shown you videos of the words coming out of his own mouth solicited or otherwise. Interpret those words as you will.

I do not deny that the left tries to poke holes in his Evangelical base nor do I deny any other fact. That isnt what we were discussing.

 

[GloryDawg]

Because of JFK. did you know that MS, Part of AL and Ok did not go for JFK Or Drinking Dickey. JFK was Catholic and Richard Nixon was Republican. That's the reason a third party candidate won all of Miss Electoral votes and won partial in OK and Alabama.

 

[Shamoan]

he says the bible is his favorite book but cant pronounce the names of the books correctly and cannot give an accurate favorite verse.

He mispronounced a book of the Bible, and when asked about his favorite verse, has either deferred or, in one case, cited "an eye for an eye," an Old Testament revenge scheme specifically condemned by Christ.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/politics/trump-religion-gospel/index.html


donald trump manipulates people and the truth...im surprised you didnt know this already.

 

[mcdawg22]

Because of JFK. did you know that MS, Part of AL and Ok did not go for JFK Or Drinking Dickey. JFK was Catholic and Richard Nixon was Republican. That's the reason a third party candidate won all of Miss Electoral votes and won partial in OK and Alabama.

That’s part of the reason. Let’s be honest.

 

[turkish]

Do most of the anti-abortionists still oppose sex education, birth control and the morning after pill? I was a teen when Roe vs Wade came down. Before that, folks with money had options. The back alley options for poor women were not pretty. I'd love to see a world where it was never a necessary option. But just forcing it to the black market is the wrong way to get there.

You’re not wrong. That’s why I think it’s a really futile argument that’s going on in this thread. We need government BECAUSE people do not, cannot, will not behave according to Christian values. That includes many Christians. And that includes America and other nations.

 

[VegasDawg13]

he says the bible is his favorite book but cant pronounce the names of the books correctly and cannot give an accurate favorite verse saying "an eye for an eye" is his favorite, when in fact, its not in the bible....donald trump manipulates people and the truth...im surprised you didnt know this already.

Good grief, man. That has been JungRebel's point the entire time. What on earth do you think you've been arguing about?

 

[JungRebel]

I'm sorry, are you trying to convince me he DOESNT feign religious belief when it is politically expedient, because earlier you said he does not feign religious belief; but it seems to me you agree now that he does in fact feign religious belief when it is politically expedient as part of his being a master manipulator? What were we discussing? The man is the greatest manipulator I have ever seen in my lifetime, he is a manipulative genius, I will never argue otherwise. Looks like we agree.

 

[MittRomney]

There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

Honestly I’m not sure why so many Christians are Republicans:
- Constantly trying to remove aid for the poor, sick, and elderly.
- Want to remove protections from minorities, gays, and other classes discriminated against
- Do not want to protect the environment we are untrusted with
- Believe in money above all other values

I guarantee Jesus does not approve of either party’s platform.

What you say here is not true. Republicans/conservatives disagree with the methods used by the left to address these issues. We should look at the problems and address them in a measured and effective manner. In other words, do what actually works.

—welfare has been an abject failure. Look up the statistics. Entitlements have devastated the black community. I would prefer that we actually HELP instead of throwing money at it. Watch a few of Thomas Sowell’s YouTube videos ( black researcher).

—depends on what the protections are. Hate crimes? Should never have been implemented. It is already illegal to discriminate/terrorize/beat up/abuse anyone. The problem with singling out groups for more protection is, who gets to decide who the groups are? Everyone should be treated the same under the law. In Europe, hate crimes have now morphed into hate speech. Cool as long as you agree with who is in power. But what if you do not? If your liberal, you would probably be terrified if the current administration got to decide what was considered hate speech (or crime). Think about the consequences. No one should have that much power.

Affirmative action has also proven to be detrimental to the black community. Already illegal to discriminate based on race/creed/etc. Everyone should be treated the same. See my statement above.

School choice has been a huge success in lower income/minority areas. You will not see too many on the left push for it nor too many on the right oppose it.

—again, conservation comes in many forms. I would argue that hunters have done more for environmental stewardship than any other group. Hunting, while not exclusively, is a very Republican pastime.

Also, environmental issues don't occur in a vacuum. For instance:

-organic farming, which is supposed to be good for the environment requires substantially more land to produce the same amount of crop’s (I don’t recall the ratios). It also requires a lot more of the natural fertilizers/etc than modern methods leading to increased run off.

-wind turbines kill endangered birds

-production of fossil fuels in the US in an environmentally responsible way, limits the need for other countries, that do not give a flip about the environment, from doing so. Would you rather oil be refined in the US or in China.

-electric vehicles overall is probably better for the environment, but do increase the need for rare earth metals and all the downsides that go along with it.

Again, these issues are not black and white. A measured approach is needed. The left should consider rational discussion and not treat these environmental issues as dogma.

-money is not evil. Money = time. Useless government programs waste your money and the time (which we have a finite amount of in our lives) you spent earning it. Money allows you to spend time with family, go on vacation, pay for medicine and food, quality of life. The left demonizes it, but a strong economy helps just about every aspect of our lives (including the poor, sick, elderly, gays, minorities, the environment, etc).

It irritates me to constantly see the left demonize the right as not caring about certain issues. We care more than the left in a lot of cases, we just disagree with the methods. Conservatives generally want what actually works in the real world, not pie-in-the-sky fantasy land nonsense.

 

[Shamoan]

my point is that he dosnt go around wearing his religion on his sleeve and to many, its clear his isnt a Christian in its traditional sense. No mention of faith whatsoever unless asked about it. thats the point.

 

[Shamoan]

i cannot speak to his religious beliefs as far as what he believes in his heart. no one can, however, he isnt parading around saying God is the center of his life and the "guiding light" like a democrat i have listed. which is feigning? its taken several years into his presidency for his religious beliefs to come into light.

could you imagine if he told Nancy that he prays for her every night?

 

[codeDawg]

What you say here is not true. Republicans/conservatives disagree with the methods used by the left to address these issues. We should look at the problems and address them in a measured and effective manner. In other words, do what actually works.

—welfare has been an abject failure. Look up the statistics. Entitlements have devastated the black community. I would prefer that we actually HELP instead of throwing money at it. Watch a few of Thomas Sowell’s YouTube videos ( black researcher).

—depends on what the protections are. Hate crimes? Should never have been implemented. It is already illegal to discriminate/terrorize/beat up/abuse anyone. The problem with singling out groups for more protection is, who gets to decide who the groups are? Everyone should be treated the same under the law. In Europe, hate crimes have now morphed into hate speech. Cool as long as you agree with who is in power. But what if you do not? If your liberal, you would probably be terrified if the current administration got to decide what was considered hate speech (or crime). Think about the consequences. No one should have that much power.

Affirmative action has also proven to be detrimental to the black community. Already illegal to discriminate based on race/creed/etc. Everyone should be treated the same. See my statement above.

School choice has been a huge success in lower income/minority areas. You will not see too many on the left push for it nor too many on the right oppose it.

—again, conservation comes in many forms. I would argue that hunters have done more for environmental stewardship than any other group. Hunting, while not exclusively, is a very Republican pastime.

Also, environmental issues don't occur in a vacuum. For instance:

-organic farming, which is supposed to be good for the environment requires substantially more land to produce the same amount of crop’s (I don’t recall the ratios). It also requires a lot more of the natural fertilizers/etc than modern methods leading to increased run off.

-wind turbines kill endangered birds

-production of fossil fuels in the US in an environmentally responsible way, limits the need for other countries, that do not give a flip about the environment, from doing so. Would you rather oil be refined in the US or in China.

-electric vehicles overall is probably better for the environment, but do increase the need for rare earth metals and all the downsides that go along with it.

Again, these issues are not black and white. A measured approach is needed. The left should consider rational discussion and not treat these environmental issues as dogma.

-money is not evil. Money = time. Useless government programs waste your money and the time (which we have a finite amount of in our lives) you spent earning it. Money allows you to spend time with family, go on vacation, pay for medicine and food, quality of life. The left demonizes it, but a strong economy helps just about every aspect of our lives (including the poor, sick, elderly, gays, minorities, the environment, etc).

It irritates me to constantly see the left demonize the right as not caring about certain issues. We care more than the left in a lot of cases, we just disagree with the methods. Conservatives generally want what actually works in the real world, not pie-in-the-sky fantasy land nonsense.

A more measured approach would be ideal in general. Unfortunately the current climate of politics is to demonize the other side’s position as bad, regardless of the merit of your side. That was my point above. That and that Jesus would not approve of either party’s policies in their entirety.

 

[codeDawg]

Great quote from my pastor just now:

“If reading the Bible causes me to scrutinize others more than I scrutinize myself, then I am not reading the Bible correctly.”

 

[WilCoDawg]

So you’re saying you’re against repealing the 2A or any infringement upon the 2A. Got it.

 

[JungRebel]

Who solicited his alleged Protestant affiliation from him during a monologue speech at Liberty University? I understand your point. My point is that a cursory glance at readily available information empirically refutes yours. We just have to agree to disagree after that.

 

[WilCoDawg]

So blacks aren’t pro-life? Neither are Latinos? I’ll let my friends know this. I’m not sure they are aware of that. #verywokeofyoutoassumeonesbeliefsbythecoloroftheirskin

 

[Shamoan]

lets look at it like this....Trump is president, THEN we find out more about his religious beliefs while he is active, sitting president. His Liberty speech that you keep referencing was in May 2017. he is not trying to drive up his Evangelical base for political points....again, his swearing in happened several months earlier. you could argue that he is trying to solidify his base for a future election, but that would be a stretch. it was an apolitical event.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Remember all the parables Jesus told about unwanted pregnancies, endangering the life of the mother, cases of rape and incest, and where he commanded "No Abortions."

Some where in the bible there's the passage about sperm being sacred too. Pythoniticus Chapter 12, I believe. Bloody Catholics!

 

[WilCoDawg]

Honestly I’m not sure why so many Christians are Republicans:
- Constantly trying to remove govt aid for the poor, sick, and elderly and allow charities to work
- Want to remove protections from minorities, gays, and other classes discriminated against and treat everyone equally since Jesus treated no one as more special than another, except children. They are special.
- Do not want to worship the environment we are trusted with but be good stewards instead


I guarantee Jesus does not approve of either party’s platform.

FIFY
Also, I’m concerned about the church you attend if that’s what they’re preaching.

 

[Drebin]

Great quote from my pastor just now:

“If reading the Bible causes me to scrutinize others more than I scrutinize myself, then I am not reading the Bible correctly.”

See, I know the purpose of this is to actually scrutinize others on this board with your typical racist propaganda.

But I suspect God sent that message to you through your pastor for you to evaluate your own heart, not for you to bring it to a sports message board and try to use it as some statement of moral authority over everyone else.

 

[Len2003]

Supreme Court consists of six Catholics and three Jews. Gorsuch could be considered Episcopalian rather than Catholic, but not an evangelical in either case.

if this post was meant to say that evangelicals care more about the Supreme Court than others, we’ll have to agree to disagree. Evangelicals certainly care, but not as much as those on the left who have made political power their religion.

The makeup of the Supreme Court wasn't in question. White Evangelical Protestants have fetishized Supreme Court Justices to the point that it's a single-issue for many. Supreme Court Justices were a huge reason that white Evangelical Protestants voted for Trump and probably will again.

Of course, that all relates to abortion because, again, what group of people are single-issue voters on abortion? White Evangelical Protestants. The majority of people are on a spectrum when it comes to the legality of abortion and aren't single-issue voters on it.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

You’re not wrong. That’s why I think it’s a really futile argument that’s going on in this thread. We need government BECAUSE people do not, cannot, will not behave according to Christian values. That includes many Christians. And that includes America and other nations.

Excellent point, the best in the thread so far. To me, if you are anti-abortion, are you willing to foster or adopt those children? I'm not pro-abortion, how could anyone be for that. But at some point you really have to figure out a way to incentivize people to quit having unwanted children, right? The reckless impregnation is the original problem, right? If not, just accept the chaos that ensues.

 

[JungRebel]

He is the only person to ever hold literal campaign rallies as President-elect. He is always and I mean always trying to rally his base. Listen to the content of the speech. Hell listen to the content of the 'convocation' he gave at Liberty in 2012. To call those speeches apolitical is nothing but patent nonsense.

Listen to this speech from 2012. If you didn't know about Trump's alleged beliefs and how he presented them before he was president that's on you, they've been on video for a while:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvl2y34puhY