Election Integrity
- Thread starter goodknight
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I’ve bought several firearms where I was required to show ID. There are several constitutional rights that have safeguards or regulations around them.
I’m almost positive that MS offered to provide voting ID cards free of charge for people.
Yes, Mississippi's ID system has passed the 24th amendment muster at the Supreme Court. Other states in the past haven't and have had to redo theirs.
However, since the voter ID went into effect in Mississippi and other states, the results haven't significantly changed in either direction, confirming that the theory of widespread voter fraud was a hoax, as all research suggested.
I live in Florida. We have mail in voting. Also in 2000 when that wasn’t as big of an issue, there were 10,000’s of thousands of votes swung one way or the other based on how a piece of paper was dimpled or if the ballots lined up correctly. The idea that mail in voting is going to cause so much fraud is a little silly to me because the entire voting process is completely corrupt/incompetent at this point. Whether it’s counties with political leanings, gerrymandering, or voter suppression, the idea of one registered voter/one vote is ludicrous. Trump supported mail in votes in Florida, do y’all agree with him?
Fair enough. I thought you would know that what you referenced are districted elections, not statewide elections. Statewide, clearly being what Drebin was referencing.
Oh, I gotcha. I saw state mentioned and took it to mean larger than local elections.
State representative elections can certainly give a good representation of voter fraud. Certainly just as much or as little insight as federal representation elections.
That’s a good thing in my opinion. Doesn’t that also prove that voter ID does not cause suppression? My reason for wanting voter ID is not so much about stopping fraud that may or may not have been real, it’s more of the common sense behind it. There is no reason why you shouldn’t have to prove you’re who you say you are with something as important as voting.
The last thing in the world I want to do is keep someone from being able to vote. But when the state offers a free ID, which lets be honest people need anyway, and voting precincts are numerous and spread out, there is no legitimate way that voter suppression can be claimed.
Yes, voting is a constitutional right. But you are leaving out key aspects of it. It's not a right extended to every person in the united states. You have to be a citizen, for one. You have to not be a felon, for another. I realize democrats want illegals and criminals to vote because they would vote democrat, but that's not how this works, and if you'll cheat to come into a country, or you'll commit a crime that ends up in a felony conviction, then you'll cheat in an election. Thus, voter ID is required to minimize that risk.
Nobody should be against this concept. If you are, you should be questioning yourself.
When people think of voter fraud at the national level, Mississippi doesn't really come to mind. And do you really think we should leave a ridiculous, unqualified statement like this to stand unchecked?
That said, if it's not a problem as you say, you shouldn't have an issue with voter ID laws.
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I never understood why voter ID is a controversial topic.
Become a citizen. Pay taxes. Don't be a felon (except in Maine and Vermont). Vote.
Seems like a pretty low bar. Saying someone is incapable of getting an ID seems like you are labeling them as being ignorant.
Become a citizen. Pay taxes. Don't be a felon (except in Maine and Vermont). Vote.
Seems like a pretty low bar. Saying someone is incapable of getting an ID seems like you are labeling them as being ignorant.
Is it discriminatory to require a government issued ID to clear security before flying commercial?
Well, that would take common sense for other states to actually look at states who know how to do it an model after that. Unfortunately, I bet most states will attempt to re-invent the wheel and when it comes out of all the requisite committees, it will be square, and have no way to mount it...
Hell, pretty much every day I'm carded to buy beer, while wearing a mask (well an M over S bandanna like a baseball-loving robber), from the same people I see at the same gas station. If I need to do that for something as inconsequential as that, you damn sure should show one for something as important as voting.
Your last statement is what I find appalling. This is what the left does very well. Minorities aren't capable of pulling themselves out of poverty - we have to do it for them. Illegals aren't capable of gaining citizenship - we have to do it for them. College students aren't capable of meeting financial commitments they agreed to when receiving student loans - we have to do it for them. And on, and on. It should be insulting to those groups that someone doesn't think they're capable, but they just buy into the narrative because it means they're getting something for free. And then we sit around and wonder what's happening to this country - why there's no accountability anymore. Why the work ethic of our childrens' generation is in the toilet. Why there's so much desire to obtain freebies instead of working hard and feeling the pride of earning something on your own or building something with your own hands.
I feel sorry for my kids and their kids because it's gonna get a lot worse. And heaven forbid we have a major world conflict that requires people to stand up and volunteer to defend this country at some point.
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Wait what? I completely accept that i didnt read your post correctly. I said that i didnt read it correctly. It wasnt intentional dishonesty(which is lying), it was a mistake due to misreading your post.
Holy **** you are a 17stick.
Now that I see I misread your post, Ill respond to it. You basically claimed Oregon isnt a good measure for voter fraud since Democrats arent threatened there in federal representative elections.
- that assumes only Democrats would cheat in an election which has been shown to be inaccurate. You ignore or dismiss this.
- there is a Republican Rep in Oregon, so Democrats are threatened there in federal representative elections. You ignore or dismiss this.
- federal representative elections arent the only reason time for voter fraud, since many elections have multiple offices up for election at the same time. representation at the state level is absolutely contested and motivation to cheat exists. You ignore or dismiss this.
- You basically dismissed an entire state from having accurate and fair elections without any proof. Seriously, show some reason for your concern/skepticism/dismissal or shut the 17 up on the issue.
- Is Utah also corrupt in its mail-in voting?
I think we have a great military full of (mostly) young people who "stand up and volunteer to defend this country". In fact, most of us don't appreciate you shitting on the US armed forces.
And yeah, I feel sorry for your kids too.
You're reading comprehension really sucks. I said not a word about our military. Most of my family are military.
Your triggered response tells me all I need to know about the accuracy of my post, precious.
And be nice about my kids. They'll be the one footing the bill for your kids.
Democrats cheat in places where the margins are thin. Examples: Florida, Georgia, North Carolina. Pennsylvania. They're not going to waste their efforts in places where the results are known. Is Utah corrupt? I have no idea. But whether it's corrupt or not, it's going to be a red state. If republicans are trying to cheat there, I'd rather see them refocus their efforts in places like Georgia where democrat voter fraud is rampant.
You knew exactly what I meant, and you're just trying to conflate the argument. Just like you always do.
I agree with most of what you said except the above portion. There are people with no work ethic in every generation and also people who bust their ***.
A blanket statement about your children's generation not having good work ethic is total BS.
I hire a lot of people out of college. I see it every day. It's not applicable to EVERYONE in that generation, and you know I wasn't saying it was. But it's a much bigger issue than it was just ten years ago, and it's not trending in the right direction.
I will dunk on you again and remind you that the only time in US history a House of Representatives election had to be thrown out because of cheating was a 2018 election in North Carolina, where the Republican cheated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_North_Carolina's_9th_congressional_district_election
You can throw out all the baseless accusations about Democrats you want, but you'll never change the fact that the only time there is a shred of evidence (and solid proof, as it turns out) was the time your side did it.
There's a key component you are leaving out on that North Carolina story, but I will let you figure it out for yourself instead of making you look bad aGAIN.
You dunk like Peter Dinklage after an all night bender.
I dont know how its working out for Democrats. I guess not well if you look at it from the perspective of who has a majority. But if they were at 15% for state representation 4 years ago, then they are looking pretty good, relatively speaking. I dont know what to do with this because I am not sure what point you are trying to make or disprove.
I dont know what to do with your response because I am not sure what point you are trying to make or disprove.
Good lord this place is insane. I make a mistake, completely recognize and accept the mistake, and multiple people then tell me my mistake was actually done on purpose.
Really now, this is crazytown. No it wasnt intentional, I know it wasnt because its me who made the mistake. I misread how something was phrased and responded based on that misreading. In a world where it seems nobody is willing to say 'I was wrong' and so many complain about a lack of accountability, if this is the **** you get for admitting you were wrong about a post on a message board, it shouldnt be a surprise when so many dig in their heels and refuse to admit they were wrong on actually important ****.
In the end, my original point applies- Oregon has had elections that both parties(and minor parties) accept and result in both parties winning and losing. If there were cheating, then it would be a huge story. And Utah also has mail-in elections that both major parties accept.
The sky hasnt fallen in either of those states.
And you wonder why GOP loses the minority vote?
You just typed out that minorities are smart and capable, but are lazy and want free ****.
Maybe it's a tad more complex than that and once Republicans acknowledge that, they can then expect to see more minority support.
Until then, check your own condescension.
You just typed out that minorities are smart and capable, but are lazy and want free ****.
Maybe it's a tad more complex than that and once Republicans acknowledge that, they can then expect to see more minority support.
Until then, check your own condescension.
It's not all-encompassing, and it's not limited to a single race of people...it's really more of a class problem, but it is a problem. To not acknowledge it is irresponsible. More and more people are waking up to it, however, and that gives reason for hope.
Truth and facts can never be condescending.
Let me guess... "That was just a random isolated incident and most Republicans don't do that." Well no ****. I already said that earlier in the thread.
But if you're going to throw out baseless accusations that Democrats commit widespread voter fraud, despite having utterly no evidence to back up your dubious assertions, you probably shouldn't pick out the state where there was an extremely famous and recent case of voter fraud committed by Republicans.
I agree with what you are saying but would like to add that making it difficult to obtain said accepted ID is where a lot of the complaints come from. Take Ala. for example, they passed voter ID and then proceeded to close down a lot of DMV offices where you had to go to obtain an accepted ID. That places an undue hardship on some lower income people. Also, having to shell out $25 for an accepted voter ID is almost a poll tax which is illegal. (I believe the SPLC is challenging on that basis) If you are going to require an ID to vote then said ID should be easy and readily available and it should be free.
I'm not sure that's really true. Ignoring tagging a potential party with it, people cheat where they can get away with it and cheating is relatively easy.
There aren't a lot of people willing to cheat in an election. They don't stand to gain anything directly and it's cost prohibitive for candidates to pay people either with cash or with favors. So to effectively cheat, you really have to have an individual with the ability to effectively count the votes, or you have to have a lot of people that are irrationally willing to risk a criminal charge for no real, direct benefit.
The first option is much more common and I suspect the vast majority of voter fraud (or I should say election fraud, b/c it's nothing to do with individual voters). The most common form of this is probably showing up with a trunk full of new ballots when the count is going the wrong way. They are kept in the back pocket unless and until it looks like they are needed. And the only limit on this is the number of registered voters from the polling places where the extra "votes" are held. That's primarily what people mean when they say winning by more than the margin of fraud.
The second option is a lot harder. You basically have to have some combination of a group of people either without a lot to lose or that are just bat **** crazy with partisanship, and then something pretty easy to do, and relatively easy to get away with. The only time I've seen it happen is in a local election that was very contentious and involved race. I think the candidate convinced a lot of people that "they" had been cheating for years and the only way "we" would be able to win was to cheat also. They only cheated in precincts they controlled. They bused people from one precinct to the next, let them roll off the bus, and then one person read off the name and address to each person as they got close to the poll. Doing that, the precincts they "controlled" voted at around 90% turnout, where they usually did about 50% in elections for that office. A lot of that 40% increase was legitimate because the election had essentially become a race issue and people were motivated. Probably even half of it was. But even if you assume 75% of that increase was fraud, it wasn't a huge percentage of the overall vote. Certainly huge as far as the ability to swing an election, but not a big number of votes. But more importantly, the next time that election rolled around, the SOS got involved and stopped it pretty easily.
All that to say, even without voter id, it was pretty hard to do real organized voter fraud and easy to stop it if the right officials cared. I still think voter id is an obviously good thing, and does pretty much stamp out the type of fraud I saw, as while those poll workers were willing to ignore the people asking another person for their address and how to spell their name, I'm not sure they would have just ignored the ID requirement because if a poll watcher challenged the vote, they couldn't say "maybe they just moved or maybe they have dementia".
On the flipside, the mail in voting is problematic because it does make massive election fraud much easier (as does electronic voting). I'm sure it works fine in Utah becaus utah is Utah. It's like saying things work fine in Switzerland or sweden. yes, but the US isn't Switzerland or Sweden or even Utah.
Wrong and wrong. There are abnormalities everywhere on both sides. But on scale you don't see a lot of dead people voting republican, or democrat city leaders arbitrarily keeping polling locations open longer in liberal districts, etc., etc. All of this stuff is easily verifiable if you would be honest with yourself. I want you to do a little open minded research and educate yourself instead of being a partisan hack.
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