OT: BSA Rebranding

[CochiseCowbell]

I hope this doesn't get tied to the Texas Masculinity thread (though there are some similarities), but are there any former Scouts/Scout Leaders or Eagle Scouts in the Pack? And what are your thoughts on this?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-to-scouts-bsa-as-girls-welcomed-into-program

Mutt, I await your hot take with baited breath.*

 

[Philly Dawg]

As an Eagle Scout, I don’t have strong feelings on this one way or the other, although I’m not sure how this will work on campouts with 13-16 year olds. I’m sure high jinks will ensue.

 

[Roentgen]

I serve on the executive board of our local council. I don't have strong feelings either way. It is only a matter of time before Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts merge. I don't necessarily think it will be a bad thing. In a lot of other countries they have merged to administer programs for boys and girls.

 

[QuadrupleOption]

I hope this doesn't get tied to the Texas Masculinity thread (though there are some similarities), but are there any former Scouts/Scout Leaders or Eagle Scouts in the Pack? And what are your thoughts on this?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-to-scouts-bsa-as-girls-welcomed-into-program

Mutt, I await your hot take with baited breath.*

I made Star Rank back in the day, my son just got his Eagle. Both of us are fine with it. One of my daughters has expressed an interest in Scouting.

I'm sure there will be a ton of wailing and gnashing of teeth but other than having to be vigilant during camp outs I don't really see an issue with it.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

I hope this doesn't get tied to the Texas Masculinity thread (though there are some similarities), but are there any former Scouts/Scout Leaders or Eagle Scouts in the Pack? And what are your thoughts on this?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-to-scouts-bsa-as-girls-welcomed-into-program

Mutt, I await your hot take with baited breath.*

OK, paging golfer, you can flame away at me. it's ok. Here's my thoughts also, as an Eagle Scout. Those that grew up in Boy Scouts know that being a boy scout instilled certain values in you that you still carry with you today. Doesn't mean you're perfect. But those underlying values stay with you. I think that this is another way that progressives have infiltrated an organization, in order to dilute values of our culture, and flip a voting demographic to the left. This is definitely going to change quite a few things in how Scouting serves our youth and future leaders. Not to mention some hellaciously hedonistic camping trips. Which is going to drive a lot of parents away from allowing their kids to participate.

 

[57stratdawg]

Seems like a great move for them. Girl Scouts are now in a tough spot.

 

[mcdawg22]

OK, paging golfer, you can flame away at me. it's ok. Here's my thoughts also, as an Eagle Scout. Those that grew up in Boy Scouts know that being a boy scout instilled certain values in you that you still carry with you today. Doesn't mean you're perfect. But those underlying values stay with you. I think that this is another way that progressives have infiltrated an organization, in order to dilute values of our culture, and flip a voting demographic to the left. This is definitely going to change quite a few things in how Scouting serves our youth and future leaders. Not to mention some hellaciously hedonistic camping trips. Which is going to drive a lot of parents away from allowing their kids to participate.

When I was in scouts, I learned how to play poker, snuck alcohol into the campouts, got in one of the only fights I’ve been in, almost burnt a forest down, saw a lot of nudie magazines, and hazed other scouts. Of course I also saved one of my friends lives, bonded with lifelong friends, learned to respect gasoline, gained positive male role models, and learned teamwork. So if chicks want to join, sure, it will prepare them for dorm life better.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

When I was in scouts, I learned how to play poker, snuck alcohol into the campouts, got in one of the only fights I’ve been in, almost burnt a forest down, saw a lot of nudie magazines, and hazed other scouts. Of course I also saved one of my friends lives, bonded with lifelong friends, learned to respect gasoline, gained positive male role models, and learned teamwork. So if chicks want to join, sure, it will prepare them for dorm life better.

But did you pull a train on the hottest girl there, after getting her drunk? And we're talking about minors, not adult kids in college. This is 13-18 year old kids. Hormones.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

1. Much of the "outrage" over this is coming from pundits who have no involvement in Scouting and just want to rile people up for clicks and ratings. Nobody who isn't a former Eagle Scout or doesn't have involvement in Scouting today needs to give an opinion on this.

2. As a former Eagle Scout, I can say with great certainty that the last thing our troop needed in our campouts was a bunch of girls there with us.

3. However, all indications are that troops will generally be single-gender, unless parents are specifically and intentionally creating a mixed-gender one, so I don't see any reason to object to this.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

OK, paging golfer, you can flame away at me. it's ok. Here's my thoughts also, as an Eagle Scout. Those that grew up in Boy Scouts know that being a boy scout instilled certain values in you that you still carry with you today. Doesn't mean you're perfect. But those underlying values stay with you. I think that this is another way that progressives have infiltrated an organization, in order to dilute values of our culture, and flip a voting demographic to the left. This is definitely going to change quite a few things in how Scouting serves our youth and future leaders. Not to mention some hellaciously hedonistic camping trips. Which is going to drive a lot of parents away from allowing their kids to participate.

Scouting was already progressive bro.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

Scouting was already progressive bro.

not when i came through it, bro

 

[QuaoarsKing]

not when i came through it, bro

They didn't have all the environmental-protection-oriented merit badges, along with Citizenship in the World (required for Eagle)? No emphasis on respect, kindness, and tolerance to all people and cultures? No Scout Law?
Did they not have all those religious knots for every religion (including stuff like Pagan) imaginable, not just Christian denominations?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

So when a spin off starts up just for boys

Will it be labeled a hate group? Slightly joking.
It is ok for boys and girls to be different. Especially at that age, boys will behave differently when not around girls. Why does this opportunity have to be taken from the boys. Could girls not have started their own group with outdoor activities along the lines of Boy Scouts or pushed for Girl Scouts to add those activities? Why has there been such a big push to change boy scouts? I'm guessing this was pushed more by adult women who wanted to push the idea that boys and girls are the same than by young girls who wanted to go camping.

 

[thatsbaseball]

There is absolutely no argument that "progressives" have been pushing the deemphasizing of gender for some years now and conservatives very much feel the opposite. Mark this one up for the progs.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

They didn't have all the environmental-protection-oriented merit badges, along with Citizenship in the World (required for Eagle)? No emphasis on respect, kindness, and tolerance to all people and cultures? No Scout Law?
Did they not have all those religious knots for every religion (including stuff like Pagan) imaginable, not just Christian denominations?

we can agree to disagree. that's an ok thing to do. you have your opinion, and i have mine. Citizenship of the world went hand in hand with citizenship of the nation and citizenship of the community. The environmental science merit badge, i'll give you that. pollution, ecology, but it also had a lot about animal habitat and species.

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

Will it be labeled a hate group? Slightly joking.
It is ok for boys and girls to be different. Especially at that age, boys will behave differently when not around girls. Why does this opportunity have to be taken from the boys. Could girls not have started their own group with outdoor activities along the lines of Boy Scouts or pushed for Girl Scouts to add those activities? Why has there been such a big push to change boy scouts? I'm guessing this was pushed more by adult women who wanted to push the idea that boys and girls are the same than by young girls who wanted to go camping.

This is the thing that I don't understand. I don't know of anything the Girl Scouts do except sell cookies. My wife wasn't in it past whatever low level it was but she said they didn't do much. The Girl Scouts want to fight this but it seems like only for the reason of losing a free work force. It would be interesting to see the Girl Scouts of America's financials and what their actual expenses look like. It is probably like GoodWill that is a non profit but the CEO is very well paid for running a non profit.

 

[rynodawg]

I’m only involved in Cub Scouts right now, but there is also a Boy Scout Troop at the same church as our Pack. When we had a survey/vote about the issue, we were told that at the older Scout level, girls would have a separate Troop, so not camping together or anything. At the Cub Scout level, the girls would have a separate den, within the Pack. Camping with Cub Scouts is more of a ‘family camp’ so lots of the kids’ female siblings are already on the trips anyway. I don’t see the change as a big deal, the boys & girls aren’t going to be as integrated as people are imagining. It’s more of a opportunity for girls to participate in the outdoor activities and other lessons that the Girl Scouts just don’t offer.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I know this sounds petty, but to your number 2:

Once an Eagle Scout always an Eagle Scout. There is no former.

 

[signdawg]

From one Eagle Scout to another, you're not a "former" Eagle Scout, you're always an Eagle Scout.

 

[msu84grad]

I was in Scouting from age 13 (our church bent the rules to start a troop) and was in the program all the way through high school. At the same time I was involved in my church's youth groups (coeducational, most of us had grown up there). How many teens are in church youth groups with no problems? How many teens are part of choirs that tour during the summers? My church in Jackson had both, and we were only segregated when it came to sleeping arrangements. This will be no more different -- likely their will be separate gender patrols in each troop as well as some coed activities.

 

[00Dawg]

I packed away...

my Eagle stuff when the last big changes went through. Third generation Eagle, and there won't be a fourth.

On this particular topic, I too was exposed by fellow Scouts to a number of things and situations that weren't "morally straight", but I cringe to think how having even one girl along changes everything. We had one such trip where a niece came along for some reason, and there was a palatable difference in the experience, and for good reason. Would some of that go away as novelty wore off? Sure, but there's no way I'd want my daughter participating in all but the most visually impressive highlights of what I experienced, both for her own sake and that of the boys.

 

[Maroonandwhite]

I packed my stuff as well. Earned my Eagle rank in 1987. It has really saddened me to see a once-fine organization compromise it’s values for the sake of federal funding.

 

[TorchingTime]

I'm going to end up echoing some of the other commentary but since you asked I'll give my opinion. I'm currently in my third year of being the Cubmaster of my son's Pack. I'm also an Assistant Scoutmaster for my older son's Troop. I've had a lot of conversations about these changes over the last year. Personally, I'm fine with it. With regards to the Cub Scouts, there are already girls involved and that's the part BSA has really latched onto with their comments on "Family Scouting." Sisters are coming to den meetings and pack meetings and participating in the activities. BSA's idea is that if your daughter likes what the Cub Scouts are doing and wants to participate then make it official and let her. Packs can either be mixed genders with all boy and all girl dens or they can be all boy packs and all girl packs.

For Troops there will be no mixed Troops. It's either all boy or all girl. They are supposed to operate separately, although they can share a committee and charter organization. Will they do joint campouts? Maybe. Policy now is that youth sleep separately from adults so you add that boys have to sleep separately from girls. To be honest though, I think they'll be in separate campsites if it happens. This isn't entirely new ground for BSA anyway. The Venturing program has been co-ed since it was created 15 years ago and covers youth from age 13 to 21.

As for the Girl Scouts, they are all kinds of mad about this. I've spoken to a couple of current Girl Scout leaders and on the local level they'll admit that the Girl Scout program doesn't compare to what BSA offers. My understanding is the GSA's program is very loose and the majority of their units are selling cookies, learning to bake, and knitting because that's what their leaders want to do. If a GSA unit does camp they are in cabins. I don't know why people are surprised to discover that some girls don't want to do that. Some girls want to backpack, canoeing, rock climb, and just be outdoors.

There was never going to be an option of the GSA and BSA joining together. They are two separate entities and while BSA is opening up to girls, they aren't going to get the girls that are more interested in standing in front of Kroger pushing Thin Mints. They know that, that's not who they are targeting. They are targeting girls that have brothers that are already in Boy Scouts or dads that were Scouts (or are for you Eagles - and congratulations I never made it that far).

I'm sure this TL;D,DR but oh well.

 

[signdawg]

This is going to be long so take this as a fair warning.

As an Eagle Scout, long time Troop Leader, former Cubmaster and father of a Girl Scout and Boy Scout, this is my take on this. The addition of girls to the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs is about declining enrollment and money for the BSA. I think that a lot of the declining enrollment is due to year-round sports, baseball and soccer being the biggest culprits of this. This wasn't an issue when I was a Scout 35+ years ago. Another thing driving it in my opinion, is that the National Office of BSA is deathly afraid of the Mormon Church pulling out of Scouting. It has been their youth program for boys for over 100 years. A lot of this is about money. Anther thing to remember is that the Chartering Organization (church, American Legion Post, VFW, etc.) own the unit in Scouting. If the Chartering Organization decides not to allow girls or gays, that is their prerogative and the BSA says that they will support them.

Now to program specifics, Cub Scouts (Kindergarten through 5th Grade) will have co-ed Packs, but gender specific Dens. This program is school grade specific so you will have a Tiger Den (1st Grade) for boys and a Tiger Den for girls. This will be consistent for every grade level in Cub Scouts (Kindergarten through 5th Grade). Since it's a problem to get leaders for Dens, a suggestion that I made was that when someone comes to register their daughter in the Cub Scout Pack, welcome them and when you give them an application for their daughter, you also give them an Adult Application and let them know that if they want their daughter in Cub Scouts that they are expected to register and be active as a leader in her Den. The Chartered Organization for the Pack that I was Cubmaster of has decided to allow girls in the Cub Scout Pack starting in August. We'll have to see how it works.

As for Boy Scouts, now Scouting BSA (ages 11 to 17), there will be gender specific Troops if a Chartered Organization decides to allow girls into the BSA program for this age group. The Chartered Organization for my son's Troop has decided not to start another Scout Troop for girls, leadership and equipment being the main reasons along with getting adult leaders.

On a personal note, my 10th grade daughter who is working towards her Girl Scout Gold Award (equivalent to an Eagle Scout) would really like to join the BSA program and earn her Eagle Scout but her age won't allow her to finish both. She says that the BSA program is much better than the GSA program and I agree with her. Personally, I think that girls should stay in Girl Scouts and boys in Boy Scouts but I understand where BSA is coming from and don't have that big a problem with it.

 

[MSUCE99]

Eagle scout here, and I've been active as an adult leader for about 7 years now. My whole thing with this is, I have lost all faith in the national leadership in recent years. Every membership decision that they have made over the past 5 or so years has been a surprise to our local leadership. We found out about them on the front page of the newspaper.

The Scouting program that I grew up in is gone forever. I don't expect this organization to be recognizable in 10 years with the declining numbers nationally and the host of recent membership decisions. Soon the good men will withdraw from leadership, and the Scouting leadership will be primarily moms. But I and my fellow leaders will do our best to pass along the values of the BSA of old to the boys in our troop while we can. It was a good run.

 

[signdawg]

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Shamoan]

I'm an eagle scout and until they change their stance on homosexuals, I'm done. It's that simple. This rebranding thing is just another hole in the bucket. It used to be a bastion from this ultra pc world we live in, but they folded like a bunch of sellouts.

 

[dudehead]

I'm a 55 year old Eagle Scout and have been active in our Council most of my adult life. I support the changes that have been made in the last few years and will continue to support Scouting.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I'm an eagle scout and until they change their stance on homosexuals, I'm done. It's that simple. This rebranding thing is just another hole in the bucket. It used to be a bastion from this ultra pc world we live in, but they folded like a bunch of sellouts.

I'm a little baffled that you apparently view "gays should be allowed to join" is a fringe PC viewpoint that only a "sellout" organization would have.

 

[Hail State]

I know you certainly are not trying to claim respect and kindness as attributes of the left?

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I know you certainly are not trying to claim respect and kindness as attributes of the left?

Oh my bad it's totally the right**

 

[paindonthurt_]

Being kind and respecting different people and cultures isn’t a progressive or liberal idea.

 

[mstateglfr]

OK, paging golfer, you can flame away at me. it's ok. Here's my thoughts also, as an Eagle Scout. Those that grew up in Boy Scouts know that being a boy scout instilled certain values in you that you still carry with you today. Doesn't mean you're perfect. But those underlying values stay with you. I think that this is another way that progressives have infiltrated an organization, in order to dilute values of our culture, and flip a voting demographic to the left. This is definitely going to change quite a few things in how Scouting serves our youth and future leaders. Not to mention some hellaciously hedonistic camping trips. Which is going to drive a lot of parents away from allowing their kids to participate.

The article said girls have been scouts, so letting them in isnt breaking news. The organization seems to still exist even though girls have been part of it, so itll probably just continue.

Not sure why you specifically mentioned me in your post. I get that i am viewed as the token lib cucktard, but i really am not some leftist...it just appeares that way because i am not constantly against change in society unlike so many here who are.

I couldnt care if girls are in the boyscouts. Cice versa for girls scouts, though it appears the girl scouts care a lot to keep its gender specific.

The YMCA allows women.
The W has male students.
The boy scouts have girls.

Cant say i give a **** about any of those groups opening their doors to the other gender.



ETA- i was a weeblow(sp?) and a cub scout for a few years. At 10 i learned to make corn cob pipes and easily realized my troop sucked. Perhaps if i were an eagle scout i would have stronger opinions.

 

[Bcash2]

A good thread on Reddit doesn’t speak highly of GS leadership

Seems to claim that BSA has attempted to merge a number of times, but GS has resisted due to the $$ that rolls in from GS cookies. Furthermore, one poster posts the two organizations inclusion statements and shows that the BS is overtly more inclusive than GS, but GS loves to claim otherwise while simoultaneuoisly basically rejecting males.

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/8gguc0/the_boy_scouts_are_dropping_the_word_boy_from_the/

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

I'm an eagle scout and until they change their stance on homosexuals, I'm done. It's that simple. This rebranding thing is just another hole in the bucket. It used to be a bastion from this ultra pc world we live in, but they folded like a bunch of sellouts.

I'm with king. Not sure how allowing homosexuals is PC. It is just not discrimination. They don't call it the hetero scouts.

 

[o_MojoJojo]

Good read through the comments on that reddit thread. The BSA has been trying to work with the Girl Scouts to merge for a while now to give girls an opportunity (because a lot of girls want to hike and camp and not just socialize and sell cookies to make money that mostly gets sent to headquarters...) and they already formed the High Adventure program so girls could participate at that age. They finally gave up on the Girl Scout organization which seems pretty greedy and incompetent, IMO.

 

[dorndawg]

I'm an eagle scout and until they change their stance on homosexuals, I'm done. It's that simple. This rebranding thing is just another hole in the bucket. It used to be a bastion from this ultra pc world we live in, but they folded like a bunch of sellouts.

So you hate gays more than you like Boy Scouts?

 

[L4Dawg]

So you hate gays more than you like Boy Scouts?

Nothing about his statement says he hates gays.

 

[ShrubDog]

Being kind and respecting different people and cultures isn’t a progressive or liberal idea.

Slowly getting rid of gender identity and introducing gender neutrality is happening. We are both talking about different topics, want to be clear. Gender choice is an issue already in existence and I think some people are seeing the BSA as a possible proving ground, and that’s coming from an eagle scout friend of mine.

There is no respect for our culture along those lines and we can guess who pushes that policy. In California they are recognizing a 3rd gender in an official capacity. Some schools are pushing the use of the word children instead of boy or girl. How about people respect genders and not policy?

I have no opinion on the BSA but it’s an interesting case study moving forward.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

About the membership decline in general: BSA needs to scale back Cub Scouts instead of doubling down by introducing Lions (kindergarten cub scouts). My son did Wolf through Webelos 2 and we were sick of the time sink - coupled with the general lack of organization - Cub Scouts is for the parents. My son wanted to go on to Boy Scouts and I had to convince my wife that Boy Scouts is a lot easier on the parents even though the scouts meet every week and camp every month. When you have multiple kids doing multiple activities, piling on is not going to make your organization more attractive.

I can't speak for other kids, but I wonder how many 6th grade boys don't join Boy Scouts because all the other scouts they know went through cub scouts and they'll feel they're way behind.