Horrible shooting in Vegas

[turkish]

And they're a big reason why anyone still can own rifles for the reason you claim to support.

 

[aTotal360]

Agreed. The rest of the country needs to have the same gun laws as Chiraq. **

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Not everyone who does stuff like this is mentally ill. And most mentally ill people are not violent criminals.

I agree, most are not violent. But what are the triggers that cause someone like this or like Charles Whitman to kill so many people?

A seemingly normal, 64-year-old, retired, accountant just suddenly decides to kill 58 people and maim over 400 is not normal and you just can't dismiss it with he went crazy for no reason.

The reason or reasons are what I am talking about that will turn what appeared to be a normal person into one that would try to kill as many as he could in a crowd of people. I'm not coming down on the mentally ill.

There is mentally ill and there is completely deranged.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

I'm not saying the NRA doesn't do any good work.

Their gun safety training is essential. However, they also produce some awful propaganda, and buy politicians by the dozen.

 

[EngDawg]

I think one of the scarier things with this one is that it was practically impossible for anybody, including law enforcement, to return fire. You would have be Chris Kyle to have any shot of hitting him.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

to own any sort of semi automatic rifle. I 100% support gun ownership to responsible adults for self defense or hunting.

That's not a self defense weapon. That's not a hunting weapon. That's a weapon for efficiently killing a bunch of people. Crying "mental illness" and then doing nothing about it is getting old - especially when it's coming from the same people pushing reduced healthcare coverage.

For anyone concerned about terrorism - this is it. This is domestic terrorism. This **** has got to stop.

The rifle I deer hunt with is semi-automatic. It is very much a hunting weapon. I also own two other weapons...one an AR style rifle and one an AK style rifle. I don't see why I should be banned from owning such weapons because some mentally ill or just plain evil person got their hands on one. To me that is no different than banning car ownership because some other dumbass got drunk and killed a family in a wreck.

The exact numbers...last year there were 30,366 people killed by guns. Of those, 18,783 were suicides so that leaves a murder/accident total of 11,583. Now, 1.3 million people died in car wrecks last year so you are 112 times more likely to be killed in a car wreck than murdered by someone with a gun.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

A car is drastically different from a semi-automaitc rifle.

The primary purpose of a car is transportation. The primary purpose of guns is killing.


However, if you want to draw a parallel:

Our society is slowly moving towards a state where car wrecks will be more and more rare, with self-driving cars.

If certain types of currently available guns were banned, you would still be able to hunt, and there would be less opportunities for domestic terrorists to mow people down like fish in barrels.

These would both be great steps forward.

 

[aTotal360]

You realize this gun ...

And this gun...

do the exact same thing right?

 

[RocketDawg]

Agree.

 

[ShrubDog]

If certain types of currently available guns were banned, you would still be able to hunt, and there would be less opportunities for domestic terrorists to mow people down like fish in barrels.

Keep dreaming cause a killer will kill by any means necessary, this is not a fantasy world.

 

[RocketDawg]

This guy had only been in the hotel a few days. How in the world did he get 10 guns, apparently loads of ammunition, and enough lumber or whatever to build two platforms to shoot from. You'd think that would be noticed. And the maids didn't notice anything unusual? Maybe they're just trained to look the other way.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Killers will still kill.

I'd rather them have less efficient killing machines at their disposal. Call me crazy.

Maybe you value the ability to shoot more fun guns over human lives. I don't. Something needs to be done about the mass shootings. Sitting on our hands isn't working.

 

[ShrubDog]

A dump truck running down the sidewalk of the strip would have been just as bad.

 

[aTotal360]

You can have a similar debate with tobacco and alcohol.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

to own any sort of semi automatic rifle. I 100% support gun ownership to responsible adults for self defense or hunting.
.

why is anyone discussing semi automatic weapons? The killer had automatic ones. A motion Certifying the illegality of automatic weapons being accessible to the public would pass overwhelmingly with NRA support.

I assume the bodies have been cold long enough now to begin the process of not letting the crisis go to waste.

 

[DAWG61]

Here's an idea. Make it so these type of guns only work on hunting land and/or make it so they are only accessible on hunting land. Ban any weapon above a pistol.

 

[57stratdawg]

He could have put 'do not disturb' signs on the door and the staff would generally stay out. You could hide several rifles in duffel bags & golf club cases as well.

 

[DawgESQ]

Tell me how you can take out 58 people in minutes with the first weapon? Listening to the video, the shooter is going through hundreds of rounds.

 

[ShrubDog]

People are trying to have a logical discussion on this topic but some don't even know the difference in the types of guns they want to ban.

 

[RocketDawg]

why is anyone discussing semi automatic weapons? The killer had automatic ones. A motion Certifying the illegality of automatic weapons being accessible to the public would pass overwhelmingly with NRA support.

I assume the bodies have been cold long enough now to begin the process of not letting the crisis go to waste.

Aren't automatic guns already illegal? And can't the be converted with a bit of expertise?

 

[thf24]

Tell me how you can take out 58 people in minutes with the first weapon? Listening to the video, the shooter is going through hundreds of rounds.

Both weapons he posted are semi-automatic, and could both be easily modified with bump-fire devices like I'm fairly certain the shooter used to simulate automatic fire.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

Aren't automatic guns already illegal? And can't the be converted with a bit of expertise?

They are. At least to the grand majority of people. And any conversion is also illegal.

 

[aTotal360]

I'm not saying you can. What I am simply saying is that both guns are semi automatic .308s. Previous poster was trying to draw parallels between "hunting" rifles and semi auto guns.

The shooter used full auto which is a different story.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

The common gun-car comparison doesn't really work because cars are really heavily regulated. You have to be licensed with both a written test and driving test before you can use a car at all, and the government keeps a registry of all cars and who owns them.

Most "anti-gun" activists would be happy with regulating guns at the level of cars and call it a day, so when you make the "cars kill a lot of people too" argument, does that mean you're willing to meet them there? Maybe you are but the NRA sure isn't.

More importantly, it needs to be pointed out that 1.3 million is a global total, which is entirely inappropriate to compare to the number of American gun deaths. Turns out both are around 30,000 in the U.S. in recent years, so an approximately equal level of regulation at least has a logical backing to it.

 

[Wizard of bulldogery]

This is from a complete lack of empathy. I'm on the moderate gun regulation side. I'd like to see some discussion from all sides, but i'm still not convinced much improvements if any could be passed and i think it would only be in handguns. Politics aside, this POS would have just found another way. he had a pilot's license. A small twin engine plane loaded with a flameable substance could have done as much damage in one swoop.

 

[aTotal360]

They are, but you can get permits to own them in some states. It's not easy. The biggest problem is that you can easily get conversion kits (that aren't that reliable) that can turn a gun fully auto pretty easily. The gunsmithing is minor and anyone with access to a metalworking shop could do it in minutes.

 

[57stratdawg]

Yeah - Remember the Pulse Nightclub shooting taught us you can be on a terrorist watch list and still be able to buy weapons. That's insane.

 

[ShrubDog]

The common gun-car comparison doesn't really work because cars are really heavily regulated. You have to be licensed with both a written test and driving test before you can use a car at all, and the government keeps a registry of all cars and who owns them.

Most "anti-gun" activists would be happy with regulating guns at the level of cars and call it a day, so when you make the "cars kill a lot of people too" argument, does that mean you're willing to meet them there? Maybe you are but the NRA sure isn't.

More importantly, it needs to be pointed out that 1.3 million is a global total, which is entirely inappropriate to compare to the number of American gun deaths. Turns out both are around 30,000 in the U.S. in recent years, so an approximately equal level of regulation at least has a logical backing to it.

Do you realize that the people taking the tests are 15/16 years old? Ok and the govt has a record of who has a license...who gives a damn, why does that matter? We are dealing with crazy 17's.

These tests haven't stopped terrorist from running over people in Europe.

Good gosh Im done talking about it.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

The common gun-car comparison doesn't really work because cars are really heavily regulated. You have to be licensed with both a written test and driving test before you can use a car at all, and the government keeps a registry of all cars and who owns them.

And owning a vehicle is not listed as a right in the Bill of Rights. More specifically under the only on that says "shall not be infringed".

Operating a vehicle is a privilege. That is why the govt can freely do what you pointed out.

As I usually ask..if the deal was presented to you today to repeal the 2nd amendment if another could be abolished... which amendment between 1 and 3-10 would you choose?

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

They are, but you can get permits to own them in some states. It's not easy. The biggest problem is that you can easily get conversion kits (that aren't that reliable) that can turn a gun fully auto pretty easily. The gunsmithing is minor and anyone with access to a metalworking shop could do it in minutes.

If you see anyone selling these "kits" or offering this kind of work... you should do the same I do. Call the BATF. As both are highly illegal.

 

[aTotal360]

What bothers me are the 80% lowers and the relatively cheap CNC machines you can buy specifically made for finishing the part. 80% lowers shouldn't be a thing.

 

[mstateglfr]

As I usually ask..if the deal was presented to you today to repeal the 2nd amendment if another could be abolished... which amendment between 1 and 3-10 would you choose?

Why does one of the others need to be abolished? I dont follow this logic or where you are going...

 

[Wizard of bulldogery]

I agree. We all need to go give blood today, if we can. If not find a way to help there are otherways to help. Pray, donate funds to help with arrangements.

 

[dudehead]

If you see anyone selling these "kits" or offering this kind of work... you should do the same I do. Call the BATF. As both are highly illegal.

This is perfectly legal under the NFA:

 

[mstateglfr]

The rifle I deer hunt with is semi-automatic. It is very much a hunting weapon. I also own two other weapons...one an AR style rifle and one an AK style rifle. I don't see why I should be banned from owning such weapons because some mentally ill or just plain evil person got their hands on one. To me that is no different than banning car ownership because some other dumbass got drunk and killed a family in a wreck.

The exact numbers...last year there were 30,366 people killed by guns. Of those, 18,783 were suicides so that leaves a murder/accident total of 11,583. Now, 1.3 million people died in car wrecks last year so you are 112 times more likely to be killed in a car wreck than murdered by someone with a gun.

http://fortune.com/2017/02/15/traffic-deadliest-year/

The National Safety Council thinks up to 40K died from auto accidents last year. So are they 1.26million people short?
...or are you just woefully wrong?

 

[mstateglfr]

A dump truck running down the sidewalk of the strip would have been just as bad.

truth.
lets allow citizens to own anything that they consider 'arms'. rocket launchers, grenades, bombs of all types. Not just legal, but readily available. After all- anything can be used as a weapon, right?...so its futile to restrict what 'arms' are allowed.

Over the top view- i know. Its also just taking one side's view to the logical conclusion so many arguments lead towards.
"hey, he coulda done as much damage in a Nissan Sentra!" or "baseball bats can kill people too, so should we ban or restrict them!?!?" laughable.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

Why does one of the others need to be abolished? I dont follow this logic or where you are going...

It's a hypothetical situation. Say the US public came to a magical agreement. One side gets to abolish the 2nd amendment. And as a response.. the pro gun side gets its choice.

Which one does the anti gun cross their fingers in hope the pro gun side doesn't pick... or does pick.

 

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Why does one of the others need to be abolished? I dont follow this logic or where you are going...

I think he's saying that once one right has been taken away, the precedence has been set to take away others. And eventually a different group will come for a different right over a lesser reason.

 

[EngDawg]

This is perfectly legal under the NFA:

There's a difference. I'm not a huge gun guy and didn't know these bump stocks were a thing before today, but this appears to be a workaround that makes the gun function similar to a fully automatic, without the actual mechanical conversion that would make it a true (and illegal) full auto.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

One problem is that you can't only value some life but not other life. Another obvious problem is an unwillingness to walk down the logical path of what gives, or does not give, life "value". If we are only bags of animated bones, products of evolution, from some primordial soup then you can't really have an argument that in a Darwinian/survival of the fittest world there is any inherent "value" to life, only power, individual feelings and individual will matter in such a world. In a world that individual feelings rule I could try to explain that it feels "bad" when I lose someone that I'm close to, but I can't really argue that their life had any inherent value.

"We" rage against any moral authority but then want to have conversations about morality. We live in an interesting world...