Bama softball player tagged out after HR.....

[thekimmer]

Link

This is kind of hilarious, just too bad it helped the bear babes. Several questions here about the rules around this. The player jumped over the plate and then walked back toward the dugout but did not enter the dugout. Her coach came out and called her back to touch the plate at which time the bearette ran up and tagged her and she was called out.

I don't understand the tag out. I thought a player that missed home after a HR was not out until they entered the dugout. Why isn't she allowed to come back and complete her cycle? At what point can a player be tagged out like this? How can they be tagged out when the ball they hit is over the outfield fence and is 'dead'? They obviously can't be tagged out at any of the other bases because the pitcher has not been given a new ball. If a player can be tagged out for missing home why are other players/coaches allowed to touch the runner before reaching the plate? They could influence the player to touch the plate when they might have otherwise missed it similar to a third base coach touching a runner. If you fail to touch a base are you out when you touch the next one? At what point are you called out if you miss the plate and not tagged with the ball?

In any case, I don't even understand why you should even have to run the bases after a HR and if you do why the rules should care if you touched the bases. That's one of the baseball rules (or in this case softball) that make little sense to me along with running on a third strike touching the ground.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

This is the equivalent of the "Drop the ball before the endzone" thing that's shown up in college football a lot lately

 

[PBRME]

I know I'm about to oversimplify here. Any base you missed is live regardless of the situation. 1st, 2nd, or 3rd only need to appeal and tag the base. Not sure if you have to actually tag the runner at home or if a simple appeal and tagging the plate would suffice.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

This is why baseball isn't a sport.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

^^This. The tagging of the runner is a little odd. But, I'd say the coach screwed up here by drawing attention to it. Just watched the clip. Yeah, he screwed up. But, that's a TEAM lesson there. No need for the entire team to be that damn close. It wasn't a walk off win. The catcher watched it all happen. She didn't notice it either. As a coach you gotta just hold your breath & hope a pitch happens. Similar to snapping the ball so the previous play can't be reviewed. Odds are that only a coach would have noticed since the player did not.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Pic upload fail.

It's okay if you think baseball is boring. It's kind of a smart person's sport.

 

[EurekaDog]

She was out when she (1) was touched a teammate or coach or (2) headed toward

the dugout. I don't know why the ump waited so long to make the call.

The tag was irrelevant.

You usually see umps wait until the player sets foot in the dugout. Again, I don't know why umps wait so long to make that call.

I'm pretty sure that if she had "high-fived" her 3B coach as she rounded third, she would have been called out.

If you take a closer look at the video, you can see an Alabama asst. coach (white jacket) trying to fight through the mob to get the batter to step on home plate. By the time she got the batter's attention, it was too late.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

You sure about that? In my experience, it's up to the opposing team to appeal such baserunning miscues. I've never seen a HR taken away bc of that, or an out called for missing another base, without an appeal. It may be the letter of the law, but I've never seen it called that way.

 

[MaroonNation]

They assumed because she had titties she couldn't see that she missed the base.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

Pic upload fail.

It's okay if you think baseball is boring. It's kind of a smart person's sport.

This does not explain 99% of the fans though.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

The thing I would argue is it is suppose to be done on "appeal". The ump did give the pitcher a new ball, but it was not put in play. I believe the runner has the ability to retouch safely until that time. Therefore the catcher tagging her is not valid.

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

She don't look like the type that has ever missed a plate of anything.*

 

[TorchingTime]

Watch the catcher at 1:18 in the video. She knew what happened. She pointed to the plate when the umpire gave her the ball.

 

[rynodawg]

Correct, any missed base needs an appeal. A tag wasn't necessary, or even possible in this case because the ball left the yard. The new ball from the umps pocket wasn't even in play yet. Any player could have just touched home without the ball, and indicated that they were appealing. No need to chase a runner towards the dugout after she 'gives up' trying to touch home.

Teammates/coaches touching the runner doesn't matter unless they are 'assisting' her. High fives happen all the time. Didn't look like any were pushing her towards the plate. If someone had pushed her over to home plate I suppose she could have been out for that as well.

If no one attempted to appeal, run would have counted, even if she just went straight to dugout.

 

[rynodawg]

True, she didn't properly appeal by touching plate. Tag with the new ball from umps pocket means nothing. I guess ump could claim the catchers intent to appeal was obvious,, but in actuality he probably just lost track and thought that the tag counted.

Regardless, end result was correct, runner deserved to be out. Catcher was clearly disputing that she touched home.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

She don't look like the type that has ever missed a plate of anything.*

That's 17'd up. But I laughed!

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I think the spirit of the law was applied here. The catcher knew what happened (Thanks Coach) whether she saw it or not & reacted out of instinct & applied the tag.

 

[MSUDawg25]

Not really. That play is still live. In this case the ball has actually left the field of play and the runner is rounding the bases purely for pageantry.

 

[thekimmer]

I think the ump blew it....

True, she didn't properly appeal by touching plate. Tag with the new ball from umps pocket means nothing. I guess ump could claim the catchers intent to appeal was obvious,, but in actuality he probably just lost track and thought that the tag counted.

Regardless, end result was correct, runner deserved to be out. Catcher was clearly disputing that she touched home.

If the ump is going to go by the letter of the law for the hitter then you gotta do the same for the fielder too. Getting the runner out by tagging makes zero sense because there was no opportunity to tag out as a part of that play but the ump clearly made the out call as a result of the tag and the catcher did not touch the plate.

The question is when is the opportunity for the hitter to touch the plate past? What makes sense to me is after the ball has been deemed ready to play and then an appeal can be made. Until then I think the player should have been allowed to go back and touch home. She did hit the ball out of the park after all.

 

[Dawg1979]

She don't look like the type that has ever missed a plate of anything.*

first off, what douche down voted this?

second, i'm calling ********. and i'm only basing on the fact that its UM that got hepped. 17 them. they should have called the game at that point and awarded Bama with the win. if those bastards can find a way to cheat, they'll do it.

 

[thekimmer]

Reminds me of this video from a few yeas ago....

Correct, any missed base needs an appeal. A tag wasn't necessary, or even possible in this case because the ball left the yard. The new ball from the umps pocket wasn't even in play yet. Any player could have just touched home without the ball, and indicated that they were appealing. No need to chase a runner towards the dugout after she 'gives up' trying to touch home.

Teammates/coaches touching the runner doesn't matter unless they are 'assisting' her. High fives happen all the time. Didn't look like any were pushing her towards the plate. If someone had pushed her over to home plate I suppose she could have been out for that as well.

If no one attempted to appeal, run would have counted, even if she just went straight to dugout.

Link

Player hit a home run and blew out her knee rounding first. Could not even get to her feet much less finish her trot. She could not be assisted by her team and ump was about to declare her out when two players from the other team decided to carry her around the bases, stopping to let her touch each one. Very touching story.

 

[dawgless]

Slight exception in how you can appeal for missing home plate. Can either be done by tagging the plate or the runner.

7.1.1.2.5 A runner is assumed to have touched the base and if a properappeal is not made, the runner is safe.(a)If a runner misses home plate and the catcher misses or makesno attempt to tag the runner, the umpire shall make a safe signaland declare “No tag.” If a proper appeal is made, by tagging theplate or runner before the runner returns to the plate, the runnershall be declared out

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

But that does not take into account the dead ball caused by the ball going over the fence. The new ball needs to be put in play and that is NOT done by the ump handing the pitcher or catcher the ball. It is done by everyone taking their positions and the ump signaling "play ball". Now the ball is in play and the pitcher can step off the rubber and do the appeal.

 

[FlotownDawg]

OK. I looked up the rule in the rulebook, and while the end result was correct, it looks like the umpire didn't follow proper protocol. The rules:
7.1.2.2.3 When the ball goes out of play, the dead-ball appeal cannot be made until the umpire places a new ball into the game.
7.1.2.2.5 When “Play ball” has been declared by the umpire and the pitcher, coach or a fielder then requests an appeal, the umpire would again call “Time” and allow the appeal process.
So it looks like the umpire should have declared "play ball" before the next pitch and then Ole Miss would appeal. However, there is also this rule.
7.1.4 A runner may not return to touch a missed base or one left before a fly ball was first touched when:7.1.4.1 She has left the field of play
While the Alabama player didn't enter the dugout, I would say that she definitely left the field of play before she went back to try and touch the base. Therefore, I believe the proper ruling would be to not allow the player to touch home plate, have the OM pitcher take the rubber, say "Play Ball" and then allow OM to appeal by touching home plate, then you call the batter out.

Edit to add: Also, if you notice, one of the assistant coaches grabs her around the waist and physically pulls her toward home plate, which is assisting the runner. So she could have been called out for that as well.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I wouldn't say she left the field of play. However, your research further proves my point of the coach screwing his team by bringing too much attention to it. I'm not positive the catcher saw it & even if she did, I'm not sure she would know how to appeal in the heat of the moment.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

So how can you do all that research and still get it wrong? She is in the "field of play" until she goes into the dugout. You know that by the fact if there is a popup or wild throw the first baseman or catcher can make a play where she was when she started back to the plate. They can't go into the dugout or if the wild throw goes into the dugout then it becomes a dead ball. The ump screwed up. If she missed first base, she could have run all the way around the base in reverse order to touch it then go back around to score the HR and no one can tag her with a new ball. If she steps into the dugout, different story.

 

[thekimmer]

I agree A few final thoughts....

So how can you do all that research and still get it wrong? She is in the "field of play" until she goes into the dugout. You know that by the fact if there is a popup or wild throw the first baseman or catcher can make a play where she was when she started back to the plate. They can't go into the dugout or if the wild throw goes into the dugout then it becomes a dead ball. The ump screwed up. If she missed first base, she could have run all the way around the base in reverse order to touch it then go back around to score the HR and no one can tag her with a new ball. If she steps into the dugout, different story.

No matter what rules have been cited here, tagging a runner out with a dead ball makes no sense whatsoever. For that matter, an appeal really makes no sense here either because, unlike leaving early on a tag-up, there is no additional play required to record the out. What makes sense to me is when a player misses a base/plate on a home run, he/she is immediately called out upon entering an area or situation where they can no longer correct the mistake. One other thing, I noticed the umpire turned his back on the plate to deliver a new ball for several seconds immediately after the player missed home. He could have very easily missed the player coming back to touch the plate. If there is still a play to be made the ump should not have taken his eyes off the player until she became ineligible to correct her mistake.

You have suggested that the point of no return is when the player enters the dugout and i agree but here is an interesting for instance. Suppose a player hits a walk-off home run and fails to touch the plate but with the game apparently over, the celebration, the high five line, etc. stays on the field of play. How is that situation handled?