CL update.. Freeze advoctes changing state flag

[DancingRabbit]

You serious? A redneck State fan is gonna fly Col. Reb because "officially" he's

no longer affiliated with UMiss? Why would a licensing issue have anything to do with someone buying and flying that crap?

I've seen this truck before. It has a Mississippi State tag on the front. Since Col Reb is no longer affiliated with the university, anyone is free to use that symbol without having to license it. It's been adopted by the confederate pride people and that's why that guy flies it. Funny how the front of the jeep is cropped out...

 

[ShrubDog]

Who gives a flying 17.

Once we finish 6th everyone will forget about it.

 

[tenureplan]

As long as ESPN doesn't refer to us as the Mississippi State Rebels this year

nm

 

[was21]

Like I said: any idiot can read between the lines...rest my case

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

So, why did Saban and Spurrier come out flat against it? This "OM had to take a stronger stance than us" argument makes no sense when Sankey, Spurrier, and Saban's comment are laid beside Mullen's and Keenum's.

 

[skydawg1]

I just wish Dan had referred to it as the Rebel flag.

This. Mississippi (<--- future official name of their athletic teams) had no choice but to come out against it. No choice whatsoever. So congrats on Freeze for "taking a stand". Barf.

 

[tenureplan]

Well lets see. Spurrier is from Johnson City TN, so like Freeze, he is OK to comment on the issue as he is viewed a southerner. Alabama, last time I checked, doesn't incorporate the CBF in their state flag. Not to mention that Saban is viewed as a God around those parts. Not to mention that Saban has been coaching in the south for about 15 years now. The shooting happened in SC, so it was much more important for Spurrier to speak on the issue than it would be for a coach anywhere else.

Elsewhere, MS's flag resembles the CFB. Hell, a whole University's identity is based around the CBF. Who HAS to act? Don't be obtuse.

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

You don't know what "obtuse" means.

 

[Shamoan]

so let me get this straight, a mississippi born head football coach that fields a team that owes its name and likeness to the army that stood to protect the institution of slavery and a sports program that derives its moniker to a slave holding plantation owners wife (and one that has a deep and recent background with racial unrest), comes out against the flag (a flag for which their sports teams and university moniker is deeply ingrained) and the hypocrisy of that fact flies completely over everyones head at the press conference?.....juxtaposed that with a university and its coach that has the highest percentage of african american students and one that holds a modest, yet undeniable history of racial equality in a state that is widely considered the most racist in the nation, with a pennsylvaina born, new hampshire-raised raging yankee head coach, and WE are the bad guys? wow....our brain-trust and those setting and involved with university perception are absolutely getting their asses handed to them by this and its embarrassing that we continue to play checkers while those at om are playing chess. the good news is, when asked about this (which im sure mullen will be at some point), all he has to do is say, "well, if hugh freeze is so adamant to end all symbols and ties to the confederacy and the old south, and what those institutions stood for, why is he not asking the administration to stop using the name rebels and university moniker of ole miss which have deep and profound ties to the confederate south and the protection of the institution of slavery?" it would totally flip the script and outline the hypocrisy for those who apparently cannot see it.

they are winning the pr war on this no doubt, but we could bury them if we had a coach/administration with the balls to say it....yet, we will take the high road again and get raked over the coals for it. we are such pussies.

 

[ShrubDog]

Big deal on what Bucky said. If he or your fanbase want to make a real difference they need to change the offensive slogan Ole Miss and ditch the Rebel.

Until yall do that the statements Bucky made are weak ****.

So, why did Saban and Spurrier come out flat against it? This "OM had to take a stronger stance than us" argument makes no sense when Sankey, Spurrier, and Saban's comment are laid beside Mullen's and Keenum's.

 

[tenureplan]

Is that the elite plantation owner coming out in you? Or are you just being slow to understand?

 

[DreadNought.sixpack]

Grown men aren't concerned about who comes out first in the diversity wars.

 

[DreadNought.sixpack]

Just one 17'ing day it would be great to log on to this message board and not see some PC bitches not getting their panties in a wad about a flag.

 

[tenureplan]

So in summary, you would like to see PC bitches getting their panties in a wad over a flag...

 

[LawDawg97]

I just asked my unbiased nephew what he saw on that flag

I've seen this truck before. It has a Mississippi State tag on the front. Since Col Reb is no longer affiliated with the university, anyone is free to use that symbol without having to license it. It's been adopted by the confederate pride people and that's why that guy flies it. Funny how the front of the jeep is cropped out...

His answer was "an Ole Miss rebel". Sorry but "no longer affiliated" will never fly. It's yours until you are no longer the Ole Miss Rebels.

 

[jakldawg]

Not to bring up a dead horse...
but it didn't help that we had a reporter go all town crier on us minutes after Dan's answer.

and again: conspiracy theory time- if he had gone hardcore "get rid of it. yesterday" then the article could have been "wannabe Oberlin professor thinks HE knows what's best for us!"

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

My post didn't mention "Bucky." I know this is going to be tough, but forget about Ole .Miss fo just a few seconds and explain why Mullen and the MSU admin refuse to be as unequivocal as Saban and Spurrier.

 

[fishwater99]

Why couldn't Mullen say it like that?
He didn't and we caught Hell for it.

 

[StoneColdSaidSo.sixpack]

Because our University's stance on the flag hasn't changed since 2001. Tell me why on God's green earth you think someone from New Hampshire would be pro confederate flag. Why do you think Obama never said anything about the MS flag? Because then the MS redneck militia would spaz out against him, and it'd never come down. Dan played it soft because he doesn't want the same effect happening against him (and seeing how he's a coach, not a politician, he has no reason to fight political battles in this State.) We only fly the state flag where we absolutely have to, and we have the highest African American SEC enrollment and no history of racial violence on campus, despite being a primarily Ag school in a small MS town. It comes down to this. The burden isn't on MSU to come out waving our hands and say "look how not racist we are." Other than those who confuse Ole Miss and State, no one would have a reason to think we are a racist school by any means. Good on Freeze for saying something, but again, look at where Freeze is from and where he coaches, versus where Mullen is from and where he coaches. Not that Freeze is going to turn around and do ANYTHING about it.

 

[MaroonNation]

You stupid 17. No Mississippi State fan would EVER fly a Col Reb flag. WTF are they feeding y'all on The Spirit?

 

[docdawg]

For those of you who, like me, feel that The admin should have taken a stronger stand, why do you think they didn't?

Not really sure, but perhaps it's unwise to name a political opinion writer, who is actively publishing columns, as your Chief Communications Officer/Director.

 

[DreadNought.sixpack]

I'm a man. I don't let words and flags hurt my feelings, unlike most of the posters in this thread.

 

[tatedog]

Not really sure, but perhaps it's unwise to name a political opinion writer, who is actively publishing columns, as your Chief Communications Officer/Director.

I agree with this.

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

If you're saying what I think your saying ....

How did "taking a position" work out for Dan Jones ?

then I think we may be in agreement. I don't think the directive to be neutral on the issue came from MSU's admin. I just think MSU's admin has more to lose.

 

[Chappy.sixpack]

Because our University's stance on the flag hasn't changed since 2001. Tell me why on God's green earth you think someone from New Hampshire would be pro confederate flag. Why do you think Obama never said anything about the MS flag? Because then the MS redneck militia would spaz out against him, and it'd never come down. Dan played it soft because he doesn't want the same effect happening against him (and seeing how he's a coach, not a politician, he has no reason to fight political battles in this State.) We only fly the state flag where we absolutely have to, and we have the highest African American SEC enrollment and no history of racial violence on campus, despite being a primarily Ag school in a small MS town. It comes down to this. The burden isn't on MSU to come out waving our hands and say "look how not racist we are." Other than those who confuse Ole Miss and State, no one would have a reason to think we are a racist school by any means. Good on Freeze for saying something, but again, look at where Freeze is from and where he coaches, versus where Mullen is from and where he coaches. Not that Freeze is going to turn around and do ANYTHING about it.

My point is that we are saying why it shouldn't matter whether we were clear about our stance because the Bears are the one with the debt to repay... BUT the whole reason we are getting defensive is that the national media is toting the story that we didn't take a stand at SEC media days. ESPN and CBS aren't going to read our forum. Mullen needs to clarify his position if we want to correct the national story. If he doesn't, then we can make all the arguments we want why he shouldn't have to, but ESPN and CBS won't hear a single one of them. Just pisses me off that he wasn't clear with his response.

 

[drt7891]

Bingo. This is exactly the issue.

 

[fishwater99]

Yes it is..

No there is not a difference.

The faculty can vote how they want too, and that was 15 years ago.
It's another thing for the current President and other administration to come out today and
take a stance against the flag. Keenum was not the President of MSU 15 years ago.
Mullen should have said that he thinks it needs to be changed and that the school also endorses it's change.
He then could have said that it's not flown on campus and that we are a very diverse school.

 

[fishwater99]

I've seen this truck before. It has a Mississippi State tag on the front. Since Col Reb is no longer affiliated with the university, anyone is free to use that symbol without having to license it. It's been adopted by the confederate pride people and that's why that guy flies it. Funny how the front of the jeep is cropped out...

That's total BS..
That jeep sure looks like one from Oxford owned by a former bartender of Rooster's.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Like I said above, the school who still has a dark cloud of embodying racism, HAD to come out strong in support of this movement.


ETA: For their school it is a real social issues that has to be addressed, because it is a major part of their tradition. For our school it is a political thing that has been a non issue for quite some time. College coaches don't come out and tell you which presidential candidate you should vote for.

Or maybe...just maybe, it's an issue that your school has NEVER addressed because you've never been forced to, and now that you are, your leaders play the political route because they don't know how bad the damage would be if they pissed off the racists in the fan base.

In many ways, I would argue that our campus is a lot more cognizant of racial issues than most in the country, BECAUSE of our past. We're the ones that recently elected an African American homecoming queen. We're the ones that have had multiple African American ASB Presidents. We're the ones who have had African American presidents for our Alumni Association. I don't know the history elsewhere, but I'm betting a LOT of SEC schools can't say the same to this day.

Have we had problems? Sure, and still do, just like anywhere else, but we've also had plenty to show how far we've come.

But yes, continue to harp that "it's their problem". That's the classic way to avoid having to look at your own issues. Hell, that's what most other states do to Mississippi and what other regions do to the South. It makes it easier to ignore your own issues at home if you can point at a "bad guy" and focus on HIS issues.

I'm sure it's that MSU is a place of racial harmony and always has been. Albert Belle, as well as the Oklahoma State baseball team both would agree I'm sure. By the way, which SEC school was the LAST to integrate?

Arkansas - 1948
Kentucky - 1949
Missouri - 1950
Florida - 1958
Georgia - 1961
Tennessee - 1961
Vanderbilt - 1962 for full integration (though they had a policy to admit AAs into certain programs years before)
Ole Miss - 1962
Alabama - 1963
South Carolina - 1963
Texas A&M - 1964
LSU - 1964
Auburn - 1964
MSU - 1965

Point being, it's a little foolish to try to pretend it's someone else's problem when your own house isn't clean and never really has been. However, pointing the finger at someone else does make it easier to ignore your own dirty laundry.

 

[tenureplan]

In many ways, I would argue that our campus is a lot more cognizant of racial issues than most in the country, BECAUSE of our past.

So the noose on the statue is a thing of the past?

 

[LawDawg97]

You would know

However, pointing the finger at someone else does make it easier to ignore your own dirty laundry.

You have 7,000 posts on here trying to do exactly this ^^^^^^^^


Your dirty laundry involves riots, the National Guard, flags on sticks, offensive songs, offensive mascots, offensive names....do we need to go on or you still think the schools are similar on this issue?

 

[ShrubDog]

Thank you LawDog for simplifying it for him.

 

[RebelBruiser]

So the noose on the statue is a thing of the past?

Nope, that was recent, and I acknowledged we still fight through our own issues. In that particular case, that student was removed from school, and his fraternity was kicked off campus, despite the fact that the fraternity wasn't directly involved.

But again, to pretend all is harmonious in your backyard is foolish. If it was, your administration would've had no problem stepping out firmly on this issue. The reason they didn't is because they know they'd run the risk of angering many of your fans. This issue is really simple, unless you're worried about trying to appease some constituents that don't view racial equality as valuable.

I also get tired of seeing your university's leadership try to play up how peaceful the integration of MSU was, often drawing a comparison to ours in the process. When you wait until after almost everyone else in the South has integrated, and you do it in the summer time, then yea, there won't be near the level of anger, because people will have already accepted that they can't stop it. If you were at the forefront of integration, I'd see patting yourself on the back about it. You weren't though.

Same thing goes for the "Game of Change". Good on your coaches and players at that time for defying orders. However, they were still attending a school at the time that didn't allow AAs in the classroom with them, so I have a hard time patting the university on the back for its basketball team trying to do something good, when the university still was actively suppressing the same minority population.

I'm sorry for spoiling the party though. I know the "TSUN is racist" game is an age-old tradition for MSU fans, so I'll let you get back to it shortly.

Before I do that though, I do have a couple serious questions, because I honestly don't know the answer.

How many AA homecoming queens has MSU elected?

How many AA Student Body Presidents have you had?

How many AA Mr. MSU's or Miss MSU's have you had?

How many AA Alumni Association Presidents have you had?

I tried to do some googling on those, but I couldn't find anything or any stories. It may be that it's just not highlighted if/when it happens, but I thought I would ask those who would know.

 

[LawDawg97]

I know we've had enough that it isn't an issue. Nice try making one though

How many AA homecoming queens has MSU elected?

How many AA Student Body Presidents have you had?

How many AA Mr. MSU's or Miss MSU's have you had?

How many AA Alumni Association Presidents have you had?

I tried to do some googling on those, but I couldn't find anything or any stories. It may be that it's just not highlighted if/when it happens, but I thought I would ask those who would know.

I know we had an African American homecoming queen in 1998 because I knew her and I was there when she was crowned. Your first was in 2012 and it made headlines because it was such a big deal for your school.

It must suck making arguments you can't win.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Speaking of foolish,

an Ole Miss Rebels fan giving anyone a lecture on race-related issues has to rank up there.

 

[FlotownDawg]

Talking about the 15-year-old faculty senate vote is just a cop out

The faculty can vote how they want too, and that was 15 years ago. It's another thing for the current President and other administration to come out today and take a stance against the flag.

The faculty senate has nothing to do with the university administration as a whole. Their vote was just symbolic. Hell, they could vote for Obama being made king of America and it wouldn't mean the University supported that. Keenum saying the faculty senate voted against the flag 15 years ago is just a cop out and some political maneuvering ********. He needs to come out and say the CURRENT ADMINISTRATION is against the flag and wants it changed. Mullen could then use the same answer when he is asked about it. If the university is waffling on the issue, why would Mullen be any different? They really put him in a bad situation at media day, and should have had a definitive answer for him to give when the question was asked.

 

[fishwater99]

But again, to pretend all is harmonious in your backyard is foolish. If it was, your administration would've had no problem stepping out firmly on this issue. The reason they didn't is because they know they'd run the risk of angering many of your fans. This issue is really simple, unless you're worried about trying to appease some constituents that don't view racial equality as valuable.

We don't have a problem at MSU, we actually have the highest percentage of African Americans enrolled in school in the SEC...

Give it up...

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

What exactly does what they "had to do", have to do with our inadequately relayed stance on the issue?

 

[aTotal360]

+1

 

[johnson86-1]

You don't know what "obtuse" means.

Or maybe you don't know the difference between a definition and a connotation?