CL update.. Freeze advoctes changing state flag

[fishwater99]

No surprise here, but no follow up question on the names Ole Miss or Rebels??


http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...eze-changing-confederate-state-flag/30233411/


"In the late '90s our university made a move to go away from the Confederate flag and being a Mississippian I have a great appreciation for the Mississippi people and the pride we have in the heritage and all those things," Freeze said while meeting with Mississippi media. "Unfortunately that symbol has been hijacked by some groups that mean ill-will towards some people.
"While I'm not a political figure I strongly believe it is time we move in a different direction and change the flag. Hopefully that'll happen."

 

[Maroon Eagle]

The Network discourages followup questions. **

 

[jakldawg]

...and so it begins
From CBS:

Unlike Dan Mullen, Hugh Freeze takes a stand against Mississippi flag.

afternoon update: the hits just keep on coming!
From ESPN

Ole Miss coach Hugh Freeze takes Confederate flag stance Dan Mullen avoided

 

[Dawgzilla]

Single sourced article**

 

[drt7891]

I'm very disappointed in MSU's lack of response in all this. I understand politics are in play, but this is the color this whole thing will take on throughout the entire season... "Freeze stands up for changing the flag and Mullen doesn't." All the while, we are playing the diverse campus card. Just disappointed.

ETA: I know we made a response, but it was clearly one on the fence. If you want to declare your university is the more progressive and diverse campus, you HAVE to take a clear stand in this. Especially when Ole Miss already has.

 

[LawDawg97]

But according to Bruiser no one associates the name Rebels or Ole Miss with the

No surprise here, but no follow up question on the names Ole Miss or Rebels??

confederacy or the confederate flag. NOTE the flag in the far right of the pic in this article. Colonel Reb makes an appearance:

https://gma.yahoo.com/confederate-f...-oklahoma-114509650--abc-news-topstories.html

This flag waving moron is proof that you can never say "no one" associates Ole Miss/Rebels/Confederacy.

 

[patdog]

I agree. Mullen 17ed up his response to a question he knew was coming. Freeze did a much better job with it.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

wtf is that? silverstein a rebel at heart?

 

[BulldogBlitz]

he said we don't have that carp on our campus. we haven't in quite some time. hell, i don't even remember it 25 years ago either. basically, go ask OM what they think about it. since we don't have it waving, that should tell you what "we" think about it.

freeze has only one answer really. he can NOT say anything other than what he did. i mean, in a day dream sort of world he could have said "i don't speak for the blacks, but i don't like the flag"

 

[tenureplan]

Eh? not really. If Mullen says the flag should change; to a lot of people in the state, he would look like the "liberal yankee carpetbagger" trying to tell us how we should be doing things. Freeze is from MS, so he doesn't face the same backlash for making that comment.

 

[drt7891]

You could be right. I'm just speaking of the color this thing looks to be taking in the national spotlight. MSU should have made a clear statement and Mullen could piggyback off that with a clear statement. Then Mullen wouldn't look like the "Liberal Yankee."

But since we didn't, it now looks like the most diverse campus in the state is nothing more than apathetic about the whole thing while the more "traditional" campus has stood up for change.

Everyone who wants to get mad about MSU's statements not supporting keeping the flag already has, so it would not be that big a deal for someone to say "change the damn flag." So the "heritage" crowd is mad for saying what we did. Now, the national media is dragging us through the mud for the apathy.

 

[esplanade91]

There will be confederate flags at tailgates at all 3 schools this fall unfortunately.

 

[DancingRabbit]

The REBEL flag is a trademark of OLE MISS. They HAD to win that press conference

I just wish Dan had referred to it as the Rebel flag.

I agree. Mullen 17ed up his response to a question he knew was coming. Freeze did a much better job with it.

 

[was21]

Mullen's answer was adequate. Any idiot could read between the lines that he was for changing the flag

 

[StoneColdSaidSo.sixpack]

Exactly. How the hell both schools pulled off a college gameday broadcast last year without a single stars and bars appearance is beyond me.

 

[jakldawg]

Good to know I'm not the only jaded person here when it comes to this.
If he comes out swinging and says "it should have been changed years ago" then everyone's all "stay in your lane, Yankee!" But by essentially doubling down on the University's stance of "using a lot of words to say nothing" we STILL somehow managed to piss off the lost-causers in the fanbase (check out the Facebook comments from MSU's flag stance announcement to see what I mean) and gave the media the chance to go "that's not how you lead...THIS is how you lead (pipe organ fires up 'Battle Hymn of the Republic', camera pans to The Rev.)"

(conjecture and speculation ahead)
I think what he meant to say was the equivalent of Michael Bolton's "why should I have to change my name, he's the one that sucks" line from Office Space. "Why are you asking me, I'm the coach at the conference's most diverse school, and not the one with the constant supply of isolated incidents involving Confederate symbols, up to and including their mascot and nickname. See what that guy has to say."
The fact that I'm even typing "I think what he meant to say was..." lets you know it did not work.
The whole milquetoast, non-committal vibe we've been putting out about this might be from our President being very versed in the political aspect of things. We've had all the pizzazz of a Department of the Interior press release. Don't get me wrong, that's exactly what you need for about 90% of the day-to-day operations of a University. Maybe just not here.
Or maybe I've spent way too much time in the sun today.

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

No one's calling Saban a liberal Yankee.

 

[o_1984Dawg]

You're not wrong but the problem is that the University put Mullen in that position. It really is difficult for our football coach from New Hampshire to take a stronger stance on the flag than the school. MSU should've taken a firmer stance and he could've just stood behind it.

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

I'm really at a loss regarding State Admin's waffling on this issue. I really don't understand why they aren't taking a stronger stand, and I'm trying to be objective about it. For those of you who, like me, feel that The admin should have taken a stronger stand, why do you think they didn't?

 

[Prediction? Pain.]

I'm really at a loss regarding State Admin's waffling on this issue. I really don't understand why they aren't taking a stronger stand, and I'm trying to be objective about it. For those of you who, like me, feel that The admin should have taken a stronger stand, why do you think they didn't?

While I agree that State's administration could have addressed the issue more directly and eloquently at Media Days, I'm not sure I'd characterize the University's position as "waffling." A week or so ago, President Keenum said this:

The tragic events in South Carolina and the evolving national debate over the state flag is a debate that should take place today in Mississippi . . . . In 2001, the Mississippi State University Faculty Senate voted overwhelmingly in support of changing the state flag of Mississippi prior to the failed statewide voter referendum on that question. I have seen no indication that attitudes have changed on that question on our campus . . . . As the university with the highest percentage African American enrollment in the Southeastern Conference, this debate is relevant and important to us . . . . Finally, MSU would certainly prefer the opportunity to host NCAA championships on behalf of our student-athletes, coaches, and university community.

I read that as, "We wanted to change it 15 years ago, and nothing in the past 15 years has changed our position." Do you disagree?

 

[o_1984Dawg]

It's a good question. When everything hit the fan it seemed like we were going to be out front on this but we've kind of pumped the brakes it seems. Maybe it comes down to our inexperience on the issue? No offense (seriously), but obviously OM has had to invest A LOT more time strategizing how to handle Confederate symbolism.

 

[patdog]

And that's the statement Dan should have repeated or paraphrased when he was asked the question at media days.

 

[RebelBruiser]

It's a good question. When everything hit the fan it seemed like we were going to be out front on this but we've kind of pumped the brakes it seems. Maybe it comes down to our inexperience on the issue? No offense (seriously), but obviously OM has had to invest A LOT more time strategizing how to handle Confederate symbolism.

This has been my theory as well. We're experienced in pissing off the rednecks. Not only that, but we're experienced in doing so, losing some donations in the short-term, and coming out on the other side better off for it, so it's really easy for our school to stand up for what's right without thinking twice about it. We know the end-game far outweighs any short-term hurt feelings.

Anyone we'd piss off this time is someone we've pissed off countless times already, and they're still around, so who cares?

Your school has never been through it before, so you don't know how it'll impact you short or long-term when you piss off your rednecks.

And being honest, both our fan bases are roughly equal parts redneck flag lover types. Ours have just been forced to accept the university stepping on their toes over and over for years now. Yours haven't been in that spot before.

 

[Faustdog]

There will be confederate flags at tailgates at all 3 schools this fall unfortunately.

We had a chance to be out in front on this and completely bungled it. This was a big swing and a miss on a hanging curve. And of course all three schools have idiot fans. But there is one fan base that is more infatuated with all things old south than any other. We should make every effort to separate ourselves from them. I passed by this beauty on Tuesday.

View attachment 2123

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

I don't disagree with your analysis, but why not just say it?

Why does MSU's statement have to be analyzed to determine that they are against the flag? What is with the cryptic, read-between-the-lines nonsense? I don't get it. I also echo 1984's sentiment that, if that's the school's position, then why can't Dan take that position?

I'm really not trying to put anyone in a corner here. I just don't understand why MSU isn't taking the bull by the horns here.

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

I do think OM has gotten good at this issue because they've dealt with it, but I refuse to believe that other schools just are "good" at dealing with confederate imagery and "heritage" alumni boosters. Do you really think that the admin at a major university sat around a table and thought to themselves that they can't take a strong position on the issue because they may lose some donors? In 2015? Don't you think someone had to have had the exact same thought that you had, that there's a school in this very state that has dealt with this already, and they haven't lost step at all, but gotten much better, since they began distancing themselves from confederate imagery?

Why didn't Saban waffle? Why didn't Spurrier waffle? They haven't dealt with this in the past. They don't have any experience with having to address it, but they feel comfortable in their own convictions to speak their mind and take a position.

 

[MaroonNation]

Mullen has two children born in Mississippi. Didn't you watch Game of Thrones?

 

[Chappy.sixpack]

I disagree. If so, then why this (from jakldawg in 2nd post):

...and so it begins
From CBS:

Unlike Dan Mullen, Hugh Freeze takes a stand against Mississippi flag.

afternoon update: the hits just keep on coming!
From ESPN

Ole Miss coach Hugh Freeze takes Confederate flag stance Dan Mullen avoided


___________________________________________________________________

We need to nip this in the bud so it gets put to rest.

 

[fishwater99]

The problem with the statement from Keenum was that he did not directly say that MSU thinks the flag should be changed.
He said that the Mississippi State University Faculty Senate voted in support of changing the flag 15 years ago.
There is a big difference..

 

[ColonelJohnSartoris]

We had a chance to be out in front on this and completely bungled it. This was a big swing and a miss on a hanging curve. And of course all three schools have idiot fans. But there is one fan base that is more infatuated with all things old south than any other. We should make every effort to separate ourselves from them. I passed by this beauty on Tuesday.

View attachment 2123

I've seen this truck before. It has a Mississippi State tag on the front. Since Col Reb is no longer affiliated with the university, anyone is free to use that symbol without having to license it. It's been adopted by the confederate pride people and that's why that guy flies it. Funny how the front of the jeep is cropped out...

 

[Go Budaw]

Eh? not really. If Mullen says the flag should change; to a lot of people in the state, he would look like the "liberal yankee carpetbagger" trying to tell us how we should be doing things. Freeze is from MS, so he doesn't face the same backlash for making that comment.

Who cares what he would look like to those people? Anyone in our fanbase that would make that statement about Mullen and / or the flag needs to no longer be a member of our fanbase as far as I'm concerned.

We definitely waffled on the issue and left a golden opportunity for our rivals to take advantage of it. Pretty inexcusable.

 

[SheltonChoked]

No there is not a difference.

 

[SheltonChoked]

I really don't get this from MSU people. Our administration and coaches have all said the same thing.

We don't use the confederate flag as a symbol of our university. We never have.

We want to change the Mississippi State flag. We have since 2001.

We only fly the state flag where we have too.


Am I the only one with reading comprehension?

 

[Go Budaw]

I really don't get this from MSU people. Our administration and coaches have all said the same thing.

We don't use the confederate flag as a symbol of our university. We never have.

We want to change the Mississippi State flag. We have since 2001.

We only fly the state flag where we have too.


Am I the only one with reading comprehension?

If all of the above is true then it shouldn't be that difficult for us to just say, "Yeah, we support changing the flag." Instead, we're going the hipster route and trying to say we did it before it was cool, and beating around the bush and it's going over everyone's heads.

 

[tenureplan]

because we didn't hang a noose on a statue 6 months ago

nm

 

[thatsbaseball]

How did "taking a position" work out for Dan Jones ?

 

[Faustdog]

I've seen this truck before. It has a Mississippi State tag on the front. Since Col Reb is no longer affiliated with the university, anyone is free to use that symbol without having to license it. It's been adopted by the confederate pride people and that's why that guy flies it. Funny how the front of the jeep is cropped out...

Yeah, I know a bunch of state fans that have confederate flags with colonel reb on them. That's a bunch of crap.

 

[tenureplan]

Your school HAD to take the stance it took because it still epitomizes everything the current movement is against. When did Dixie get banned? How long ago was the noose placed? When was the last sanctioned KKK event? Is there a tailgate in the country with more CBFs? It just sucks for us because we share this state with you, and your image is reflected upon the entire state.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

He basically said we don't have the issues the other school has. He kept mentioning OUR campus, OUR university, etc. Clearly, he was pointing out the differences between the two. That's not conjecture and speculation, it's exactly what he meant. One doesn't have to be presumptuous to understand his statement that was figuratively double spaced to read between the lines. It takes an absolute moron to (hot)take his words in a different direction.

Could he have said more? Yes. Should he have? That's the million dollar question.

Like someone else stated, Freezus and OM HAD to win that one. It helped the Rev that he went second as well.

 

[tenureplan]

Like I said above, the school who still has a dark cloud of embodying racism, HAD to come out strong in support of this movement.


ETA: For their school it is a real social issues that has to be addressed, because it is a major part of their tradition. For our school it is a political thing that has been a non issue for quite some time. College coaches don't come out and tell you which presidential candidate you should vote for.