Cohen

[ronpolk]

I'm in the pro-Cohen group. I think I speak for others when I say this season was awful and it needs to be explained a repeat of this season can't happen.

With that said, no rational person can make a case to fire him now. The last 4 years have been about as good as we have had since the late 90's. Along with the winning, fan interest is back and it was not there for several years. Cohen seems to be recruting well and is getting players drafted and drafted high, which is big for our program.

Cohen got caught in the middle of the game changing and was not prepared. That is 100% on him and he owes Mark and SS an explanation. I'm not sure if he thought holder, Lindgren and woodruff (sp?) was going to hang around but truth is he lost all of the experienced power arms. And I gotta think he's expected more power from Collins, Rea, Hump, Rooker and even Garner had he stuck around.

Point is, I think Cohen should be safe this year, unless something is going on internally that we don't know about. If he repeats this next year, I'll want him gone too.

 

[engie]

Nailed it...

He told a friend of mine that is an opposing coach last year that it was going to take him 2 years to adjust to the new baseballs, which I shrugged off at the time. That same coach thinks we will be pretty good next year and is generally more positive about it than I am. We've got talent but there has to be an extensive amount of mental toughness developed...

 

[TBone.sixpack]

What does Mingione bring to the table? Where are there opportunities to upgrade our asst staff?

 

[bulldogcountry1]

Nailed it...

He told a friend of mine that is an opposing coach last year that it was going to take him 2 years to adjust to the new baseballs, which I shrugged off at the time. That same coach thinks we will be pretty good next year and is generally more positive about it than I am. We've got talent but there has to be an extensive amount of mental toughness developed...

The ones that experienced this season and manage to come back for more in the fall should at least have some level of toughness. I hope it translates into something positive that will motivate them and make them absolutely refuse to get embarrassed anymore and hate the taste of losing.

 

[engie]

What does Mingione bring to the table? Where are there opportunities to upgrade our asst staff?

Perfect Game recruiting. That's about all I can assess. Our recruiting has gotten much more elite and national on paper under him but clearly that's not reality at this point. It's quite obvious that he isn't the evaluator that Burroughs was from a personality/program fit perspective, nor is he the Mullen-type of evaluator of under the radar gamers with the lack of MS relationships that Burroughs had over a long period of time here. We've got a bunch of square pegs in round holes right now. There are rumors now that the volunteer assistant is the actual hitting coach. So, if that is true, the only things Mingione could potentially really be in control of, such as base running, are things that we do not do well. That position is and always was above Mingione's pay grade without him proving it elsewhere outside of Cohen's shadow first. We should have a Cliff Godwin-level coach in that spot. I think we are going to go get one now. I didn't even like him as our 1B coach/volunteer assistant. "Don't get me wrong, he's a really nice guy -- but he's a total f'n goofball." -- the same opposing coach with nothing but positive things to say about Cohen and Butch.

Regardless of whether our issues are 100% not his fault, he is the one that has to fall on the ax to calm the masses IMO. I've been as positive as anyone through this shitshow -- and I'm going to melt pretty hard if he is back next year.

I think Butch is the best pitching coach in the country for Mississippi State at this point. The upcoming draft and next season will either prove that true or false -- he's certainly earned more time -- but this year has used up alot of his cache. He's proven he can have an elite pitching staff here more than once already. We haven't had an elite hitting team under this regime at any point in time. That's where the change has to been made IMO...

 

[engie]

The ones that experienced this season and manage to come back for more in the fall should at least have some level of toughness. I hope it translates into something positive that will motivate them and make them absolutely refuse to get embarrassed anymore and hate the taste of losing.

I dunno that I buy that being "found" in the offseason. Maybe in some cases. Maybe once the poison is out of the water.

 

[JacksonDevilDog]

I think they really believed that Holder and Lindgren would be 4 year guys, especially Holder. When Lindgren blew up and Holder went higher than expected in the draft, it gutted our bullpen. Combine that with Gentry having arm issues and Ross not being able to adjust to the new ball has equalled a horrible bullpen. We have had to rely on two 6-6 fireballers with little command to shore up our bullpen and that hasn't worked that well. The only way that we can be improved next year on the mound if for Houston and Hudson to make a jump and be guys that are legitimately competing for weekend spots and become guys that we can depend on, no hold our breath every time they come in.

You have to think that we can find three quality starters for next year between Brown, Hudson, Houston, Tatum and Sexton. The rest can battle for midweek. This has to be clearly defined going into the season and we shouldn't have to be "working" on it into April.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

That's a Polk-esque excuse if I've ever heard one. 2 years to adjust? Get real.

Nailed it...

He told a friend of mine that is an opposing coach last year that it was going to take him 2 years to adjust to the new baseballs, which I shrugged off at the time. That same coach thinks we will be pretty good next year and is generally more positive about it than I am. We've got talent but there has to be an extensive amount of mental toughness developed...

It's the big field. It's the pressure. It's the crowds. It's the lottery money scholarships. And today's special on the menu... 2 years to adjust to the new baseballs. A coach with guaranteed salary in the upper third of his conference needs 2 years to adjust to new baseballs. Just stop at this point.

 

[engie]

It's the big field. It's the pressure. It's the crowds. It's the lottery money scholarships. And today's special on the menu... 2 years to adjust to the new baseballs. A coach with guaranteed salary in the upper third of his conference needs 2 years to adjust to new baseballs. Just stop at this point.

Don't you have a couple of bets to duck?

Link me to these excuses Cohen is making -- if you will?

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

If I were posting the asinine **** that you are, suggesting a baseball coach with 20+ years experience needs 2 years to adjust to new baseballs, I'd learn that I've finally reached rock bottom with excuses. I'm not ducking ****. Cohen won't put us in Omaha again. Nor host a super regional the remainder of his tenure. That's what elite programs are measured on right? Forgive me forgetting the measuring stick since you're worshipping a guy with an 87-119 mark in his own league.

And I'd he happy to link whatever you want but it's hard to link a post game radio show. I'd figure a super fan like you listened to it every game anyway, no?

 

[Van Lingle Mungo]

Sexton pitched a helluva game yesterday and Houston and Dakota have live arms and should be much better next year. The everyday players should be improved too. We could have won two in Oxfart with any kind of breaks so I don't see the doom and gloom.

 

[engie]

You obviously are. I even was kind enough to bump it for you.

Ok -- so you are on the record that Cohen will never go back to a place he's been 40% of the time in the past 5 years. And you still fancy yourself not an idiot. Ok then.

 

[ronpolk]

What does Mingione bring to the table? Where are there opportunities to upgrade our asst staff?

I've never been a fan of mingione. Don't like his demeanor on the field and never seen the benefit he brings. Wouldnt bother me one bit if he was gone. But butch should not go anywhere.

 

[ronpolk]

It's the big field. It's the pressure. It's the crowds. It's the lottery money scholarships. And today's special on the menu... 2 years to adjust to the new baseballs. A coach with guaranteed salary in the upper third of his conference needs 2 years to adjust to new baseballs. Just stop at this point.

Instead of being an idiot why don't you give valid reasons for why Cohen should be fired. Anything that includes using his first 2 years as a reason to fire him is dumb.

 

[Augustus McCrae]

I've never been a fan of mingione. Don't like his demeanor on the field and never seen the benefit he brings. Wouldnt bother me one bit if he was gone. But butch should not go anywhere.

Agree with you here on both counts.

 

[Bulldogg31]

If you get a chance, listen to hour 3 of the Head to Head Radio podcast from last Wednesday. Pretty easy to find on the H2H Radio app.

Cohen goes into detail about all the recent changes in college baseball...the bats, the balls, etc, and says it will take time to change what we were doing.

He laments all the tinkering with CBB and says he wishes they'd pick a set of rules and stick with them. He even says something like "so one coach says he doesn't like the ball we're using, so now we all have to use a new ball, meanwhile we've got a bunch of sinkerball pitchers and the new ball won't sink." You can tell he's pretty frustrated.

He also mentions all the injuries and bad luck we've had this year. It was like a 20-minute explanation for this current season.

 

[weblow]

If you get a chance, listen to hour 3 of the Head to Head Radio podcast from last Wednesday. Pretty easy to find on the H2H Radio app.

Cohen goes into detail about all the recent changes in college baseball...the bats, the balls, etc, and says it will take time to change what we were doing.

He laments all the tinkering with CBB and says he wishes they'd pick a set of rules and stick with them. He even says something like "so one coach says he doesn't like the ball we're using, so now we all have to use a new ball, meanwhile we've got a bunch of sinkerball pitchers and the new ball won't sink." You can tell he's pretty frustrated.

He also mentions all the injuries and bad luck we've had this year. It was like a 20-minute explanation for this current season.

The issue I have with this is that he seems to be the one that failed to adapt. Every other program dealt with the ball change, bat change.........within the exact same time frame. Most top programs were very successful and adapted to the change without significant issue. Cohen even discussed the changes 2 years prior but now acts as if the changes were sprung on him like a pop quiz and that these changes should make this year somehow excusable. It is ********.

I am not for getting rid of Cohen unless he refuses several demands that I imagine will be made in the next couple of weeks. I think a real, no ******** batting coach has been needed for years. That has to happen. Not Dillon but a real batting coach. I also think we have to have a strength coach. A real one. We are more dinged up year after year than any team I have ever watched. It has been discussed a ton but we also see guys who never seem to grow any stronger. This isn't acceptable. I think when your strength coach has a pot belly, that may be part of the problem.

Butch will get the pitchers figured out but that won't solve it all. We need some coaching changes and they need to be really top guys and not some no name that we call a batting coach or strength coach.

But anyone that accepts the ball change as an acceptable excuse is just blind. Look around the rest of the league. Cohen is the only coach I have heard using this ******** excuse.

 

[codeDawg]

If you get a chance, listen to hour 3 of the Head to Head Radio podcast from last Wednesday. Pretty easy to find on the H2H Radio app.

Cohen goes into detail about all the recent changes in college baseball...the bats, the balls, etc, and says it will take time to change what we were doing.

He laments all the tinkering with CBB and says he wishes they'd pick a set of rules and stick with them. He even says something like "so one coach says he doesn't like the ball we're using, so now we all have to use a new ball, meanwhile we've got a bunch of sinkerball pitchers and the new ball won't sink." You can tell he's pretty frustrated.

He also mentions all the injuries and bad luck we've had this year. It was like a 20-minute explanation for this current season.

A guy that gets you to the NC gets a lot of slack. He's running through it pretty quick this year, but he earned it. Obviously we are bad enough this year that some amount of dumbassery on his part and the coaches part plays into it, but a guy that can get you there once can do it again.

This isn't like Ray or Croom where it was obvious they were never going to get there. Cohen has already been there. Unfortunately now he's made a pretty bad mess that he has to get cleaned up quickly. He's not out, but he's on the clock.

 

[Shmuley]

The great ones don't make excuses.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

Look douche, I told you I stand by my bet and what I said.

You obviously are. I even was kind enough to bump it for you.

Ok -- so you are on the record that Cohen will never go back to a place he's been 40% of the time in the past 5 years. And you still fancy yourself not an idiot. Ok then.

Wtf else do you want to hear me say? Yes I'm on the record. Pin it, place it on your mantle, stick it on the fridge door, do as you wish. But what are YOU gonna do when he doesn't produce? Are you gonna come back and recant all of this support you've shown?

 

[engie]

Wtf else do you want to hear me say? Yes I'm on the record. Pin it, place it on your mantle, stick it on the fridge door, do as you wish. But what are YOU gonna do when he doesn't produce? Are you gonna come back and recant all of this support you've shown?

You will be just another forgotten idiot to me within a week. You have this far hardly proven to be a memorable or worthy dissenting opinion. Just another cliff jumper looking to justify a gross overreaction. As much as "don't care" about this message board persona of yours -- you sure do put an awful lot of weight on it.

 

[engie]

The great ones don't make excuses.

What is he supposed to say? People demand answers for them and when he gives them those answers as candidly as he can -- he is "making excuses"? And if he doesn't answer the questions, he's "a hardheaded ******* that is too stuck in his ways to admit and fix problems."

I've yet to hear a single interview where he was "making excuses". He's owned our failures all along.

 

[weblow]

What is he supposed to say? People demand answers for them and when he gives them those answers as candidly as he can -- he is "making excuses"? And if he doesn't answer the questions, he's "a hardheaded ******* that is too stuck in his ways to admit and fix problems."

I've yet to hear a single interview where he was "making excuses". He's owned our failures all along.

I think what people are looking for is what are his plans going forward. What changes does he plan on making immediately? I am a big Cohen fan but think he has lost his way to a certain extent. He has tried to out-coach a league that just punched him in the face because he isn't as smart as he thought he was.

Call them cliff jumpers....whatever you won't but when you are two years from playing in the NC and you have a good chance of finishing dead last in the SEC, people have every right to question him. For him to say a ball change is responsible for this fall is ******** when the rest of college baseball is going through the identical ball change. That is an excuse engie, and a poor one.

I think what people are looking for is a gut level, honest plan to make sure this doesn't happen again. It is also at a time when people are looking to make a significant investment in MSU baseball and the new stadium. Maybe some find it chump change, for my family, it is a good chunk of change to reserve 4 seats. We attending every home weekend game this year and will do it again next year but Cohen has worn thin on most by this point. The constant line up changes, meddling, bunting.........this has been covered too much to type again....but even looks to the most hard core fans as Cohen almost trying to outsmart himself.

The bottom line is that Cohen refused to change and thought that his game of bunts and speed would still be very effective. He gambled and was dead wrong. The other part to me is the injuries and I think that is a direct reflection of our strength and conditioning program, or lack there of. We have more injuries, year after year, than any other team we play. Some injuries are part of it but we seem to have more than average.

I would just like to hear Cohen's plan to turn things around. Bottom line, with the exception of a change at assistant coach, we won't have a real picture of what next year will look like until after the draft.

 

[muddawgs]

It's very obvious you were part of the ilk that didn't want Cohen hired.

Wtf else do you want to hear me say? Yes I'm on the record. Pin it, place it on your mantle, stick it on the fridge door, do as you wish. But what are YOU gonna do when he doesn't produce? Are you gonna come back and recant all of this support you've shown?

You waited on a bad season to push the "I told you so" agenda. Bottom line is Cohen has shown us he can be successful and he can get us to Omaha and he can get us to the Championship game. He's been the only coach to get us that far. You don't fire coaches after 1 bad season that have gotten you to the highest stage.

Hell Florida made 3 straight World Series in a row from 2010-2012 and had a losing record in 2013. Lsu won the World Series in 2009 and didn't make post season in 2011. **** happens. We have lost 8 games after being tied or up after the 8th inning and 10 after the 7th inning. Our bullpen is ****. We win half those games and we aren't listening to lunatics like you. After next season though, you will crawl back up in your hole and wait for another bad season to blast Cohen and call for his job.

 

[engie]

He changed his gameplan in recruiting in the Humphreys class when the ball thing became a real possibility. If he has to spell that out for people and they lack the ability to see it on their own, they wouldn't get it anyway. The upcoming class has like 11 power pitchers in it. The "plan" is out there and pretty obvious. Rooker, Hump, Ingram, Gordon, Hudson, sexton, Young, Collins, etc... I get that some of those haven't worked out -- but the change in approach was obvious at the time...

We are experiencing a tougher transition because we were built more exclusively to the previous game IMO. No one is making excuses for it -- it is what it is. We'll see where we are next year.

 

[RickyWadePhilpotDVM]

That's a cop out.

Nailed it...

He told a friend of mine that is an opposing coach last year that it was going to take him 2 years to adjust to the new baseballs, which I shrugged off at the time. That same coach thinks we will be pretty good next year and is generally more positive about it than I am. We've got talent but there has to be an extensive amount of mental toughness developed...

Every coach in America has to "adjust to the new baseballs," why is accepted that Cohen is shittier about "adjusting" than his peers? That's not exactly the sign of a good coach.

 

[engie]

Every coach in America has to "adjust to the new baseballs," why is accepted that Cohen is shittier about "adjusting" than his peers? That's not exactly the sign of a good coach.

Neither is coaching in a national title series -- apparently.

 

[MSU'92]

I bet his friend who is an opposing coach is Tennessee's coach. Those two battling it out for the title of absolute shittiest dumpster fire coach.

 

[RickyWadePhilpotDVM]

Is that actually your opinion or are you just pulling that out of your ***? Because giving up 5 runs after having your opponent down to their last damn out has zero to do with "waaaaah new baseballs." Looking back on this season, I see significantly more issues with coaching decisions in game than I do with "how the team is built for the game."

I don't know how you can say (type?) with a straight face that this is all on equipment. I don't think Cohen should be fired, but your Officer Barbrady "nothing to see here people move along" bit is not a good look. He definitely deserves to be on the hot seat. Ole Miss is not a great baseball team, that sweep was absolutely avoidable, and while one series does not define the body of work, it's damn sure why folks are worked up.

 

[RickyWadePhilpotDVM]

Also, what the hell is the link between "mental toughness" and "new baseballs." Those have nothing to do with each other. Dude needs to pick an excuse and stick to it, pivoting back and forth is getting dizzying.

 

[MSU'92]

You dipshits have been given plenty of reasons why but yall are too emotionally vested in Cohen's feelings to see **** right in front of your faces.

 

[engie]

I bet his friend who is an opposing coach is Tennessee's coach. Those two battling it out for the title of absolute shittiest dumpster fire coach.

Lol... No I don't know Dave Serrano. The guy that actually won a national title, led 2 programs to the cws, and has been there about 5 times is a total idiot though!1!!!1 You totally destroyed me with that one1!!1!

 

[engie]

Also, what the hell is the link between "mental toughness" and "new baseballs." Those have nothing to do with each other. Dude needs to pick an excuse and stick to it, pivoting back and forth is getting dizzying.

So there is only a single problem with this team? Good -- you should be able to suggest a really simple fix then. I'm all ears.

 

[engie]

I don't know how you can say (type?) with a straight face that this is all on equipment. I don't think Cohen should be fired, but your Officer Barbrady "nothing to see here people move along" bit is not a good look. He definitely deserves to be on the hot seat. Ole Miss is not a great baseball team, that sweep was absolutely avoidable, and while one series does not define the body of work, it's damn sure why folks are worked up.

Nice straw man. When in doubt -- just make up your own stuff and apply it to me.

 

[BossDawg78]

It's the big field. It's the pressure. It's the crowds. It's the lottery money scholarships. And today's special on the menu... 2 years to adjust to the new baseballs. A coach with guaranteed salary in the upper third of his conference needs 2 years to adjust to new baseballs. Just stop at this point.

That's kind of what I was wondering. Why is it taking Cohen 2 years to adjust to the new balls when other coaches in the conference don't seem to be too bothered by them?

 

[BossDawg78]

You don't fire coaches after 1 bad season that have gotten you to the highest stage.

Chizik?

 

[engie]

That's kind of what I was wondering. Why is it taking Cohen 2 years to adjust to the new balls when other coaches in the conference don't seem to be too bothered by them?

Other teams in the conference were still built traditionally during the BBCOR era. We were not. It's hardly our only issue -- but it's disingenuous to suggest that it doesn't exist. Yes it's still Cohen's fault. Yes he still gets next year and we assess it then. How we were built to td ameritrade is what took us deeper than we have ever been before. Our medicine became our poison. It is what it is.

 

[patdog]

The Humphreys class is a big reason our program is in the shape it's in right now. Let's all hope the 2015 class is a lot better.

 

[engie]

Chizik?

Different sport. Whole different world. Chizik to Cohen is a bad comparison. Maybe you would have a case if Chizik had won the Big12 at Iowa State. But he never sniffed bowling there did he?

Let's try again keeping it to college baseball...

 

[engie]

The Humphreys class is a big reason our program is in the shape it's in right now. Let's all hope the 2015 class is a lot better.

yeah -- the sophomore class is the reason our program is struggling. Remind me that you said this this time next year.