The Juzang fallacy

[TankedCat]

Juzang was a 5-star that Cal talked into reclassing. Yes, Cal wanted him to stay!

Doesn’t matter what his rating is, Cal decides either you are in or you are out and if you are out your season is over at UK. I am sure Cal wanted him to stay, it would be great to have a guy like Juzang on the bench in case one of your stars fouls out.

 

[fatguy87]

But, we won't know, because he chose to leave and not compete against those freshman. I know, the agenda driven will say that Cal wouldn't have given him a shot, but that is nonsense. Players earn playing time in practice, and if Juzang is as good as people think he is, he would have earned minutes.

As it turned out, he probably would've gotten 25+ minutes per game since all our 5 star guards busted.

 

[fatguy87]

Just like Quickley, Allen has to learn to get his shot off quicker. This is what Calipari was trying to instill this season with Allen, and I think a lot of fans didn't understand it.

Allen averaged more 3's per 40 minutes than Quickley despite not having the ability to generate 3's off the dribble. His release time is fine.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

Allen averaged more 3's per 40 minutes than Quickley despite not having the ability to generate 3's off the dribble. His release time is fine.

Yup, I was puzzled by the earlier comment. If anything, Allen was rushing late in the year. With more minutes and reps, his stroke will get him tons of buckets.

 

[G-PIP]

Allen averaged more 3's per 40 minutes than Quickley despite not having the ability to generate 3's off the dribble. His release time is fine.

His shot wasn't quick enough. Freshman's rarely are. It's about getting set, loading up, the release - all of it. They come in with shots that were right for high school, where the athletes are generally not fully developed, smaller, slower, etc. It's not a knock on Allen as a player. It's a natural progression he and every other shooter in college has to go through.

Allen got better speeding up his shot mechanics as the season went on, and I expect it to be good to go next season. I also don't recall Quickley generating 3s off the dribble as a freshman.

 

[fatguy87]

Allen got better speeding up his shot mechanics as the season went on, and I expect it to be good to go next season. I also don't recall Quickley generating 3s off the dribble as a freshman.

I was comparing a freshman Allen to a sophomore Quickley.

Allen's 3 attempts per 40 was incredibly high by Kentucky standards. He took them at a higher rate than Monk and Quickley. Overall, he managed upwards of 10 per 40 despite Cal not designing offense to generate three point attempts, as Cal admitted in an interview.

But yes, Allen can get better at shooting threes. He can learn to shoot them off the bounce, better use screens, and get better from a variety of body angles. The fundamental quick release, however, seems less of an issue than the variety of attempts in his repertoire.

 

[Cats_2010]

Boston should've played way fewer minutes early, but he came on late. Allen had a few good games and that's it. If he isn't hitting his shots, he adds nothing.

And Boston likewise added zero value elsewhere on the court. His last 10 games he averaged 30 minutes/game with the following per game

Points 10.5
Rebounds 3.0
Steals 1.3
Blocks .1 (had one total)
Assist 2.0

 

[Paulyv94]

Boston and Clarke were supposed to be much better, Juzang wouldve played significant minutes had he stayed.

Kids are told theyre the next Durant or LeBron every 10 mins all through high school, then they sit the bench 1 year and believe the coach is screwing them.

Juzang leaving sucks, but its nobody fault but his own. You going to sit Quickley to keep him happy? hell no.

This. You have to remember that Boston and Clarke were both top ten recruits, and surefire lottery picks. Cal did what we all wanted him to do, which is take the best available talent. Turns out, they weren't that great yet. That being said, I believe Juzang had wanted to transfer out halfway through his only year here anyway. Kid had a change of heart and wanted to play closer to home. Not sure how Cal is supposed to keep them here in that scenario.

 

[Kampus Korner_rivals164031]

Juzang knew full well, just like every other recruit Cal has signed, that Cal was going to be recruiting the best players he could sign every year. As Cal has publicly stated many times, "This ain't communism, the best players get to play." and "Kentucky ain't for everybody" Juzang couldn't beat out Quickley or Maxey for playing time his freshman year. He had no reason to believe Cal was not going to bring in top tier guards in the next recruiting cycle, especially since he knew Maxey was leaving. Boston and Clarke, both at 6ft. 7in could have also played in a three guard line up which Cal has played many times.

I understand kids want to play and they don't want to sit on the bench with limited playing time, "waiting their turn" when that "turn" may never arise because they can't beat out their competition. No player has a right to have an expectation that their coach is going to preserve their future playing time by not recruiting the best players he can sign. Beating out your competition is the nature of the beast when it comes to team sports.

Juzang left and he has had success. I'm happing for him but I certainly don't blame Cal for him leaving. Cal, by all accounts, including his own, wanted him to stay.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

And Boston likewise added zero value elsewhere on the court. His last 10 games he averaged 30 minutes/game with the following per game

Points 10.5
Rebounds 3.0
Steals 1.3
Blocks .1 (had one total)
Assist 2.0

You want us to play with 4 players? Like I said in another post, we got basically nothing out of the other backcourt spot boston included. Boston, Allen, and askew should've split those minutes and we gone with who played best that game.

 

[Madcat62_rivals113839]

Doesn’t matter what his rating is, Cal decides either you are in or you are out and if you are out your season is over at UK. I am sure Cal wanted him to stay, it would be great to have a guy like Juzang on the bench in case one of your stars fouls out.

boston was not a star

 

[Cats_2010]

You want us to play with 4 players? Like I said in another post, we got basically nothing out of the other backcourt spot boston included. Boston, Allen, and askew should've split those minutes and we gone with who played best that game.

Don’t disagree with this at all. You were the one that initially stated the Allen didn’t deserve more time due to his bad stretch of play but Boston’s bad stretch of play lasted virtually all year yet still saw 30 minutes per game. Allen never got the one thing Boston had all year, the vote of confidence from the coach he was playing for. Had He, the Allen we saw against Ms. St. both games very well may have shown up quite a few more times.

 

[Spanish Radio]

As a coach and his team play down the schedule and the coach and his team keep losing what do you do as a coach:

1. Continue to play the same players the same minutes?
2. Continue to play the same defense?
3. Continue to play the same offense?
4. Do you think it doesn't matter what you do, you have come to the conclusion your players just don't have it and throw your hands up and make a token effort?
5. Knowing 4. do you just try to rope a dope the fans with coach speak?
6. Just try to get to next year and try make things better?

or try any number of different things because you are already losing.

 

[LmdCat]

I was listening to KSR today and they kept saying “who would you have sat so Juzang could play more? Quickley and Maxey? Nobody would have done that!”

Problem with that argument is Juzang didn’t have an issue with playing behind those guys as a freshman and waiting his turn. What he took issue with was being blatantly recruited over for the likes of Boston and Clarke. He saw the writing on the wall and didn’t want to be treated like Dante was this year. Who could blame him?

Ironically, wasn’t Mick Cronin the guy Cal publicly humiliated a few years back, saying something to the effect of “if I want your recruit, I’m going to take him”? I think he said “just understand, we eat first.” Now the kid turns out better than Boston and Clark combined. Cal ate first alright... problem was, he ate hemlock.

I agree with everything except for your comments about Boston and Clark. Those two players would have been much better playing for anyone other than Cal, The NBA decision making about UK players is absent of anything they do at UK because they know Cal is the problem.

 

[BourbonBalz]

There were several on this forum that proclaimed Juzang couldn’t play at Kentucky. That he wasn’t good enough. Those people are what I call delusional dipshits.

 

[king of cali]

There were several on this forum that proclaimed Juzang couldn’t play at Kentucky. That he wasn’t good enough. Those people are what I call delusional dipshits.

What about the ones who called him a quitter, said he was afraid to compete, that he saw what Allen could do and decided to get out of town? No one on this board was crying when Juzang left because of all the reasons listed above. Just crazy that now everyone is so broken up about it.

 

[BourbonBalz]

What about the ones who called him a quitter, said he was afraid to compete, that he saw what Allen could do and decided to get out of town? No one on this board was crying when Juzang left because of all the reasons listed above. Just crazy that now everyone is so broken up about it.

There were quite a few that weren't happy about Juzang and Baker transferring. I was one of them. The ones that were glad Juzang transferred were the same ones criticizing Allen this year for the most part, saying he couldn’t play defense, wasn’t UK caliber, and was a one trick pony. They sounded stupid then and still do.

 

[sk73]

I was listening to KSR today and they kept saying “who would you have sat so Juzang could play more? Quickley and Maxey? Nobody would have done that!”

Problem with that argument is Juzang didn’t have an issue with playing behind those guys as a freshman and waiting his turn. What he took issue with was being blatantly recruited over for the likes of Boston and Clarke. He saw the writing on the wall and didn’t want to be treated like Dante was this year. Who could blame him?

Ironically, wasn’t Mick Cronin the guy Cal publicly humiliated a few years back, saying something to the effect of “if I want your recruit, I’m going to take him”? I think he said “just understand, we eat first.” Now the kid turns out better than Boston and Clark combined. Cal ate first alright... problem was, he ate hemlock.

So Juzang thought that BJ and Clarke were much better than himself and he just quit? Juzang would have started and been our best player this year at UK. Maybe he just wanted to go home. I dont know why he left but I just do not think he chickened out due to competition.

 

[Wunky]

So Juzang thought that BJ and Clarke were much better than himself and he just quit? Juzang would have started and been our best player this year at UK. Maybe he just wanted to go home. I dont know why he left but I just do not think he chickened out due to competition.

I didn’t say he chickened out. I said he got recruited over.

I take it you feel that Allen got the minutes he deserved this year? That Boston got the minutes he deserved?

 

[RACdad]

Juzang wanted to get closer to home, Case closed

 

[JohnnyGreen1975]

All I can think is what could have been....

 

[sk73]

I didn’t say he chickened out. I said he got recruited over.

I take it you feel that Allen got the minutes he deserved this year? That Boston got the minutes he deserved?

So, you are saying Cal recruited what Juzang thought were players that may take his place. Juzang left because he was recruited over. Like it or not, you are actually saying , he chickened out.

I think Juzang left because he wanted to go home during the Covid peak.
I dont think his decision had anything to do with BJ or Clarke. I think you just search for reasons to bash Cal. Try harder because this one doesnt make sense.

I hope Allen works hard and improves a great deal during the offseason. I pull for him. With the transfer portal what it is, playing time may be just as hard for him to get next year.