UK Cheerleading Cleaning House
- Thread starter WGtripod69
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UK cheerleaders respond -
https://kentuckysportsradio.com/mai...Pnsw4S-B2PalQnJ5Vp1Wq35fXbHvCng2AaMC-nBK3nhkg
https://kentuckysportsradio.com/mai...Pnsw4S-B2PalQnJ5Vp1Wq35fXbHvCng2AaMC-nBK3nhkg
I’ll see after work. If you go to that Instagram page maybe her cheer friends did as well. But what I saw was basically same one being posted on multiple accounts
Well, I must say, that's a pretty meaningless response. Three of the people quoted were former cheerleaders who've been out of the program for years, did not attend the events in question, and thus have no way of knowing what actually happened. And the fourth guy wouldn't give his name and admitted he was drinking at the retreat.
It's clear they're very unhappy about the decision, but none of them actually deny the allegations.
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Well actually they do but thats not the gem. To the person they seem to suggest that Barney is making a power grab as the squad was pretty independent. Mitchy wanted control and this was how to do it.
When I watched the press conference, I thought their presentation was strange. Appeared they were all acting tough. If you did not know the story, you would have thought someone had committed murder. "This is a new day in KY cheerleading and we will get the best coaches" or some such nonsense. What does Sandy Bell know about cheerleading and coaching cheerleading?
First of all, the best coaches in cheerleading, you just fired. Second of all, what person would want to coach at UK now? UK just indicated all you have to do is threaten a lawsuit and you will lose you job. Third, what person/coach wants to coach or make a decision with Sandy Bell hovering over you head.
In Mrs. Tyler Thompson's article on KSR, T J Smith made a really good point about the cheerleaders having a "self sustaining program".
The punishment does not fit the crime. UK will have a hard time finding quality coaches.
First of all, the best coaches in cheerleading, you just fired. Second of all, what person would want to coach at UK now? UK just indicated all you have to do is threaten a lawsuit and you will lose you job. Third, what person/coach wants to coach or make a decision with Sandy Bell hovering over you head.
In Mrs. Tyler Thompson's article on KSR, T J Smith made a really good point about the cheerleaders having a "self sustaining program".
The punishment does not fit the crime. UK will have a hard time finding quality coaches.
I read that the Oldham girl was going to return to UK next year. I would think that would cause problems, She might not be treated very well.
If this was such a problem, why did the mother complain in February? I understand the retreat was last summer?
If this was such a problem, why did the mother complain in February? I understand the retreat was last summer?
UNC was infinitely far more egregious and damaging, orchestrated by Tar Heel administration and nothing at all happened to them, their school or the athletes. They all denied knowing anything for decades, as if there was no data to discover a problem.
UK on the other hand went too overboard, give them credit for taking responsibility but the penalty was ridiculous for the infraction. Athletes actually tried to hide something that wasn’t mandatory for anyone to do. They should have punished the kids if anything.
No way UK football and basketball players aren’t and haven’t been smoking weed and drinking for decades. Are we firing Cal or Stoops if it’s found out? Nope, we will suspend the athlete and that’s it. The double standards are obvious, I just don’t see this as egregious. The cheerleaders weren’t drinking and driving, forcing anybody to do anything.
I was thinking this too, it's gonna be very awkward for her on campus with everyone knowing she and her mom were the snitches here.
I'd imagine other cheerleaders are mighty pissed at her, which could be extra uncomfortable in an endeavor where you have to trust them to catch you when falling.
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I haven't really kept up with this enough to have a feel about who's right in this situation or what should happen. But I do know how ugly social media can be, and frankly how ugly society can be in 2020, fueled by social media. My guess is the Oldham kid and especially her Mom will soon want to enter the witness protection program or move to Brazil.
Times really have changed. The stuff I lived through as a kid, then as a younger adult. My football coaches alone would have gotten the electric chair if we're firing coaches for this kind of stuff, these days.
Great post. Yeah, I mean being a coach and having Sandy Bell nitpicking the **** out of everything you do? Hell no.
Exception, I agree with most of what you said. A couple of points:
1. UNC should have been punished, should have disciplined those involved without even the NCAA mandating it. Same with Louisville. Since this is Cheerleading, there is no NCAA to step in and enforce anything.
2. Buried in this story of drinking and bad behavior, which is pretty much part of college life, is the "employment of cheerleaders" off-site by the advisor. That alone doesnt break any laws or rules whatsoever, yet was mentioned in the press release. Why? This little gem is actually a bigger, uglier story that UK would like to end right there.
3. Hazing is being forced to do something you would prefer not to do in order to remain part of something you desperately want to be part of.
And of course, other bad behavior never justifies new bad behavior. Had these cheerleaders done this on their own. A few slaps on the wrist and we move on. But to do this in the company of UK advisor and coaches, and none of them stepped in to stop it ..... that's where you have to draw the line and say "as a school we dont approve". The following nvestigation then found A LOT of things they don't approve of. So we found some moral fortitude and did the right thing.
UK did the right thing here. I hope we don't want or need to air the rest of the story in the light of day. It's not a good look. And the cheerleaders coming out to protect the program is "the family circling the wagons". I get it, I support you guys, but the process to fix this is needed.
1. UNC should have been punished, should have disciplined those involved without even the NCAA mandating it. Same with Louisville. Since this is Cheerleading, there is no NCAA to step in and enforce anything.
2. Buried in this story of drinking and bad behavior, which is pretty much part of college life, is the "employment of cheerleaders" off-site by the advisor. That alone doesnt break any laws or rules whatsoever, yet was mentioned in the press release. Why? This little gem is actually a bigger, uglier story that UK would like to end right there.
3. Hazing is being forced to do something you would prefer not to do in order to remain part of something you desperately want to be part of.
And of course, other bad behavior never justifies new bad behavior. Had these cheerleaders done this on their own. A few slaps on the wrist and we move on. But to do this in the company of UK advisor and coaches, and none of them stepped in to stop it ..... that's where you have to draw the line and say "as a school we dont approve". The following nvestigation then found A LOT of things they don't approve of. So we found some moral fortitude and did the right thing.
UK did the right thing here. I hope we don't want or need to air the rest of the story in the light of day. It's not a good look. And the cheerleaders coming out to protect the program is "the family circling the wagons". I get it, I support you guys, but the process to fix this is needed.
What hazing? Nobody was forced to do anything, it was college kids doing stupid stuff. The players didn’t decide who got to be on the blue squad based on participation in basket tosses or performing a lewd cheer. The coaches didn’t require participation in these activities, much less to guarantee a spot on the team.
The cheerleaders aren’t in control like a fraternity would have to gain entry. The school can label it for the sake of description but I don’t see what they did as hazing. Everybody was already on the team and there was no reward for participating.
Exactly.
Football, basketball, and baseball players drink etc on trips as well. Seems Jomo was very proactive in trying to enforce a no alcohol/professionalism environment.
The fact any other major sport staff wouldn’t have been wiped out over Darnell Dodson failing a drug test for example, gives some credibility that this was the Athletic Dept grabbing power.
Not to mention they found that other accusations were false which should also show that the accusers were embellishing...should make you ask the question of motive then.
They better hope the big cheer donors don’t turn on them bc we may turn into Indiana basketball of cheer and watch Bama and UCF rattle off the next decade or 2 of titles.
An 18 time National champion coach getting fired for some kids breaking his alcohol guidelines that they were then punished for, and for a ritual chant that could have easily just been directed that it was to stop going forward. This wasn’t broomstick style duck tape to the goalpost hazing. That was child’s play
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Totally agree, although I think nudity being involved and Mitch's religious beliefs played a big role.
Fair. He has his convictions and I'm a Christian as well. However, it seems that the only people who participated in nude stunts were consenting adults deciding to do it on their own becuase they thought it was funny or risky/exciting...much like when young kids/adults skinny dip or run a naked lap around the house. Young people do dumb things when in large groups or excess free time.
You should see some of the ridiculous things that come across my desk dealing with JR Marines in the Barracks.
From Grant v Oldham fight. This is funny, I don’t care where you’re from:
“During the 2002 - 2003 school year, Cabell Midland High School had a dress- up day year, and Grievant told Oldham she might dress like her. The next day, when then- Principal John Flowers saw Grievant dressed as Oldham, he called Oldham down to see Grievant's attire. At the time of this occurrence, everyone who saw Grievant and Oldham believed the matter was in good fun and reported Oldham did not appear upset. When Oldham saw Grievant she indicated that if she wanted to look like her she should decrease the size of her hips, and Grievant responded she would also need to lose some weight in the chest area. Contrary to Oldham's assertions in the following school years, Oldham was not upset about this event at the time it happened.”
Are you freakin serious? What a joke. Whoever made this decision should be ashamed and is a pos. If I were on the cheer team I’d have absolutely zero to do with the girl that caused all this. Her and her crazy mom can jump off a cliff for all I care.
Ohh, I would want to be the person tossing her into the air during the next televised event they air with cheerleaders present. I would give her little *** the hardest and highest toss I could and fall backwards out of way like I tripped or was hurt. Then I'd watch as she bounced off the turf or hardwood. Hopefully her mom can be front row to see as well.
For a sweet touch of poetic justice, I would blame it on the coaching staff change.
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I’d definitely watch that routine lol.
One girl and her mother single handedly ruined careers of coaching legends and probably ended the greatest dynasty the sport has ever seen. Probably all because mommies little princess wasn’t in the spot they thought she should be in. Makes me sick.
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You're sure assuming a lot in your eagerness to blame the "little princess" and her mother for exposing things that they found unacceptable. It sounds to me like this sort of stuff had gone on for a long time while the "coaching legends" looked the other way. If true, they ruined their own careers. They did seem get a bit of negative "help" from alumini cheerleaders and hangers-on who had no business being involved. No one should be tarred and feathered for telling the truth, and if the truth hurts, so be it. If the cheerleader and her mother were not telling the truth then the investigators should be blamed for not doing their jobs. If the reported acts don't merit the punishment, in your considered opinion, take it up with the President and AD of UK. In your case you're blaming the messengers for exposing behavior that in your opinion should be acceptable. Obviously the leadership at UK does not share your opinion. .
Sweet Lord, please educate yourself before talking out of your ***. She lied about most of the stuff she said and much if it was admittedly heresay. No one else has corroborated it, current and former cheerleaders have publicly stated they were never even interviewed. The cheerleaders admitted they snuck in the alcohol and knew is wasn't permitted on the events. They admitted they took steps to conceal it from the coaches by mixing it in Gatorade and water bottles. The people who sere skinning dipping and going topless said they did so completely voluntarily and not as part of anything hazing related. Karen Oldham even admitted her daughter didn't take part in this. The trauma allegedly came from her daughter reciting a cheer from the 1970's that was "vulger."
Her daugher failed to make the squad she felt entitled to earlier this year. Her mom and her got pissed and threatened to take legal action seeking millions in emotional damages from the university over these alleged incidents. She was even going to transfer out. Once the coaches were let go, new tryouts were announced and low and behold the emotional trauma ended, they are no longer seeking damages and she is no longer transferring. Unless she doesn't make the squad she wants of course.
Her mother has a history of bringing lawsuits when she doesn't get her way, like when she sued a school board over not getting a promotion she felt entitled to. Her and her daughter have also been kicked out of other cheer clubs and gyms in the past over being difficult to work with.
This is nothing more than an insecure, talentless, lazy piece of trash who would rather screw everyone else if they don't get what they feel entitled to.
I'm a Christian too and realize people make mistakes, is that's Barney's reasoning, it's pretty self-righteous and lame, and firing the coaches was not warranted, a strong reprimand or suspension, all for it....
I don't want anyone to do anything overt but I hope the student body makes her so unwelcome she runs home crying to mommy. I'm not very happy with Pope Mitch over this. It is a gross overreaction and has done terrible damage to the program. It would serve UK right if the entire cheer squad transferred.
It apparently did happen but its exaggerated and UK had a terrible overreaction. College kids acting like college kids...what a shocker and they tried their best to do it behind their coaches backs. The firing is unwarranted.
Based on what information we know it seems that it was an excessive punishment. Were there things done that shouldn't have? Sure but I can bet you if it came out some guys on the basketball team did some of the same things Cal and his staff ain't getting fired and neither would Stoops. If you believe some rumors that have circulated over the years worse things than this have happened with no public punishments being doled out.
I have no clue what happened. But, the reaction on here is truly astounding. The mother and daughter reported something that nobody involved has denied. The school took action after an investigation was completed. Slandering the whistle blower is a useless exercise unless accompanied by facts that disprove UK's conclusions. So far, no new facts have appeared. Raising hell about whistle blowers and complaining about punishment imposed used to bring hoots of derision on this board. Of course those complaints involved a different school.
That different school pimped out their recruits and paid for prostitutes for teenagers. A pretty big difference from what allegedly happened here.
While I'm not defending anyone's actions here, college students acting like college students is way different than state officials basically buying whores for teens.
The UK staff basically turned a blind eye to it, they didn't provide drugs, alcohol, or ladies of the evening to any one of their wards.
It seems the punishment was slightly excessive, but, again, when you work for someone, they get to make the rules. And if you violate them, they can, well, fire you.
Also UK took immediate action and didn't play the blame game for years. And probably did so thanks to the actions of said "different school."
Said "different school" didn't have any accountability anywhere. UK actually does.
I’m sure we will see our former staff win some titles elsewhere in pretty quick fashion.
in the meantime watch UKs team drop under the control of the AD Dept.
in the meantime watch UKs team drop under the control of the AD Dept.
Bull. There’s been past cheerleaders deny this crap. Princess and mommy are the ONLY ones to have said a negative thing about the coaches. All past cheerleaders have come out strong to support the coaches. Now it’s reported that princess and mommy did the same crap in high school. I’m glad the LHL made the woman’s name public. Hope she’s prepared for what’s coming.
UK fired the coaches based on the results of its investigation. If the "princess and mommy" were lying, then UK did a p-poor job of investigation. I know nothing about any previous complaints made by the mother and doubt that you know much either. If you have info germane to this case then your duty is to provide it to UK since they either don't have the info or have looked at it and discounted it. Whining on a message board is unlikely to shed any light on the case.
Except most all of what was stated by mom and player has been denied by everyone invovled and proven out right false in many cases. The mom and student claimed coaches provided alcohol. That was false. The mom and student said they were forced to go topless or nude. This was false. The mom and student said students were being forced to perform the basket toss activities. This was false. The mom and student said students were forced into hazing activities. This was false.
I have no idea what the mother claimed happened. She posted on Facebook that she is not the original reporter to UK and that she and her daughter have only responded truthfully to questions from UK investigators. I read on Kentucky.com that two previously unmentioned cheerleaders have verified the allegations made and have filed suit against UK. I don't know the facts of the case but it appears that UK is trying to get in front of things by taking drastic action against those employees involved. I'd bet the farm that things are a lot more serious than they're described on this message board.
This was clearly a hovering mother who thought her daughter should have been moved up to the blue squad (men’s games) and was kept on the white squad. If she did not like things surrounding the team then just transfer to another school. She is not even from the state of Ky
If you don't know, why comment and then criticize others for commenting without knowing?
Karen Oldham and her daughter were the initial whistleblowers that launched the investigation. 2 other cheerleaders gave statements to the university via the same attorney during the investigation. They confirmed some of things like there being alcohol snuck in and that people were topless or nude. They did not confirm that anyone was forced to do anything, that alcohol was provided by coaches or that they were hazed.
If they already lied to UK, it's not really hard to imagine they would lie to the general public. Particularly now that she is getting backlash and alleged threats.
There really is nothing else. It's all been pretty public. UK just wanted to avoid the costs of a potential lawsuit because that is what the Oldham's threatened.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/5229721002
I say I don't know because all I have to go on is what other people write. I criticized a couple of posters for making statements of fact that they had no way of knowing. BTW, do you know that the coaches were fired to avoid a lawsuit, or are you speculating? Who made this decision for UK? Looks to me like firing the coaches is a public admission that some serious misconduct took place.
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