Year 3

[BigTenRutgers_rivals663048]

Some posters have accused me of being a "troll" for demanding better results from Chris Ash in his third year. This isn't about me, but I want assure you that I am a big supporter of the program who wants Ash to succeed.

Here are the records posted by our last three coaches in their third year:

Terry Shea: 5-6
Greg Schiano: 5-7
Kyle Flood: 8-5 (bowl win)

It is indisputable that the first two coaches had far less to work with in terms of facilities, budget and program prominence. Rutgers was still a national joke in Shea and Schiano's third years. Flood was largely riding Schiano's coattails in terms of talent, but does deserve some credit for winning 8 games with a Big Ten schedule and beating North Carolina in a bowl.

I think it's fair to demand 5 wins from Ash this year. If we finish 4-8 or worse, particularly with numerous blowout losses, I think dismissing Ash is probably the right move. That's not "trolling" or being anti-Rutgers. It's demanding progress in the third year of a highly-paid coach's tenure.

I hope Coach Ash gets the job done. He seems like a decent, likable person who wants to win.

 

[RuBird]

Some posters have accused me of being a "troll" for demanding better results from Chris Ash in his third year. This isn't about me, but I want assure you that I am a big supporter of the program who wants Ash to succeed.

Here are the records posted by our last three coaches in their third year:

Terry Shea: 5-6
Greg Schiano: 5-7
Kyle Flood: 8-5 (bowl win)

It is indisputable that the first two coaches had far less to work with in terms of facilities, budget and program prominence. Rutgers was still a national joke in Shea and Schiano's third years. Flood was largely riding Schiano's coattails in terms of talent, but does deserve some credit for winning 8 games with a Big Ten schedule and beating North Carolina in a bowl.

I think it's fair to demand 5 wins from Ash this year. If we finish 4-8 or worse, particularly with numerous blowout losses, I think dismissing Ash is probably the right move. That's not "trolling" or being anti-Rutgers. It's demanding progress in the third year of a highly-paid coach's tenure.

I hope Coach Ash gets the job done. He seems like a decent, likable person who wants to win.

Remind me again which conferences Rutgers were in during these coaches tenures. Can not only go by wins

 

[JoeRU0304]

Some posters have accused me of being a "troll" for demanding better results from Chris Ash in his third year. This isn't about me, but I want assure you that I am a big supporter of the program who wants Ash to succeed.

Here are the records posted by our last three coaches in their third year:

Terry Shea: 5-6
Greg Schiano: 5-7
Kyle Flood: 8-5 (bowl win)

It is indisputable that the first two coaches had far less to work with in terms of facilities, budget and program prominence. Rutgers was still a national joke in Shea and Schiano's third years. Flood was largely riding Schiano's coattails in terms of talent, but does deserve some credit for winning 8 games with a Big Ten schedule and beating North Carolina in a bowl.

I think it's fair to demand 5 wins from Ash this year. If we finish 4-8 or worse, particularly with numerous blowout losses, I think dismissing Ash is probably the right move. That's not "trolling" or being anti-Rutgers. It's demanding progress in the third year of a highly-paid coach's tenure.

I hope Coach Ash gets the job done. He seems like a decent, likable person who wants to win.

People didn’t accuse you of being a troll for wanting better results or even being critical of Ash; it was because you were posting in an antagonistic pattern where you appeared to willfully ignore anything that didn’t support your point of view while sensationalizing the points that did. If you would have just initially posted what you did above without all the exaggerated ‘Ash is just like Shea!!’ claims I don’t think anyone would have a real problem with it outside of standard discussion.


Joe P.

 

[Doctor Worm]

OP does have a point in that the three year mark is often the "fire or extend" decision point. However, I don't think that's the case here. I think Ash gets a fourth year regardless.

 

[RuBird]

Can’t only go by wins. I’d gladly take a 4 Win season if our 8 loses don’t include any blowouts. If someone we won another game and got to 5 wins, does it mean the same if we get our doors blown off by Ohio State and Michigan? To me I’d sign up for the 4 wins. Much better perception, especially to any recruit.

 

[AshCatchEm]

We cant see your agenda

 

[Upstream]

There is no way Ash gets fired at the end of this season for failing to win 5 games. To even suggest it indicates you are completely out of touch, or a troll.

 

[BigTenRutgers_rivals663048]

Remind me again which conferences Rutgers was in during these coaches tenures.

Flood was in the Big Ten and won 8 games. I don't think it would be fair to expect that from Ash this coming season given the way Penn State and Michigan have returned to powerhouse status since 2014, but I think 5 wins is more than fair.

 

[BigTenRutgers_rivals663048]

There is no way Ash gets fired at the end of this season for failing to win 5 games. To even suggest it indicates you are completely out of touch, or a troll.

According to this poll, which 125 members of this board responded to, 42% think Ash does have to win a certain amount of games to avoid being fired. So they're all "completely out of touch" or "trolls," according to you and your great wisdom?

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ash-need-to-keep-his-job.143755/#post-3274394

 

[newwavedave1]

I'd be very happy with 4-5 wins and fewer blowouts. A Bowl bid would be amazing, considering where we have been. I'll say it again, the following year is our "breakout" season if injuries are limited and we add some more talent/depth. Go RU!

 

[RuBird]

Flood was in the Big Ten and won 8 games. I don't think it would be fair to expect that from Ash this coming season given the way Penn State and Michigan have returned to powerhouse status since 2014, but I think 5 wins is more than fair.

Apples and Oranges when using Shea and Schiano. That was my point. Again not about the number of wins. It is about perception.

 

[RUbacker]

Some posters have accused me of being a "troll" for demanding better results from Chris Ash in his third year. This isn't about me, but I want assure you that I am a big supporter of the program who wants Ash to succeed.

Here are the records posted by our last three coaches in their third year:

Terry Shea: 5-6
Greg Schiano: 5-7
Kyle Flood: 8-5 (bowl win)

It is indisputable that the first two coaches had far less to work with in terms of facilities, budget and program prominence. Rutgers was still a national joke in Shea and Schiano's third years. Flood was largely riding Schiano's coattails in terms of talent, but does deserve some credit for winning 8 games with a Big Ten schedule and beating North Carolina in a bowl.

I think it's fair to demand 5 wins from Ash this year. If we finish 4-8 or worse, particularly with numerous blowout losses, I think dismissing Ash is probably the right move. That's not "trolling" or being anti-Rutgers. It's demanding progress in the third year of a highly-paid coach's tenure.

I hope Coach Ash gets the job done. He seems like a decent, likable person who wants to win.

Do you even know the difference between the BIG conference and the big least ??? Go do some research before you mouth off .

 

[JCKnight]

According to this poll, which 125 members of this board responded to, 42% think Ash does have to win a certain amount of games to avoid being fired. So they're all "completely out of touch" or "trolls," according to you and your great wisdom?

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ash-need-to-keep-his-job.143755/#post-3274394

It’s common knowledge that this board lacks common sense for the most parts, especially in polls...suggesting that short of a scandal Ash is fired for winning less than 4-5 games this season isn’t being a troll but it is showing your ignorance, completely out of touch with reality and just plain do not understand the state of Rutgers football...

I’ve said it to you before but since you insisted on starting aNOTHER THREAD to continue this point you insist on making...Ash may not be the long term answer to take us where we want to be but he is laying a foundation and changing a culture and Hobbs will give him the time to do that regardless of how many wins you think he should get in year 3...

I’m one of the bigger critics of his recruiting yet I understand at least that he isn’t going anywhere after this season or likely next regardless of winning 5 or 6 games this year or next...

 

[DJ Spanky]

 

[ashokan]

It took Monken 4 years to turn Army around and Ash has a 4 year project as well imo. It takes the first 2 years just to break the fall, and another two to start the rise back.The B1G is just so hard these days

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

if you can't see the progress... then you really aren't paying attention...........

 

[jason21psu]

I feel like I’ve posted this before but the surest way to stay a bottom dweller of the conference is to fire head coaches every 3 years. Someone (SB Nation maybe?) did an article with the research and data to back this up. If I have time later I’ll look for it.

Basically though firing a head coach usually results in the new coach being the opposite of the previous coach. Spread v Pro Style or Offensive minded v Defensive minded. Which leads to the new coach needing time to get his players in to fit his new scheme. New coach doesn’t win fast enough and the cycle repeats.

If Ash is changing the culture and doing everything else positive you’re far better keeping him than changing coaches again. Look at Dabo and Dantonio as guys that were given the time to be successful.

 

[RU#1fan]

Can’t only go by wins. I’d gladly take a 4 Win season if our 8 loses don’t include any blowouts. If someone we won another game and got to 5 wins, does it mean the same if we get our doors blown off by Ohio State and Michigan? To me I’d sign up for the 4 wins. Much better perception, especially to any recruit.

Sign up for 4 wins ? You’re kidding right . Can you set the bar any lower?
If only beating Powehouses Texas St., Buffalo, Kansas, and Illinois makes you feel good about the state of our Program I don’t what to tell you.

 

[RUJMM78]

Sign up for 4 wins ? You’re kidding right . Can you set the bar any lower?
If only beating Powehouses Texas St., Buffalo, Kansas, and Illinois makes you feel good about the state of our Program I don’t what to tell you.

Joining the B1G came with obvious challenges in facilities ,coaching and recruiting.There have been no easy games and far too many blow out losses. Its part of the process of being a member in a power conference.At the same time there must be accountability and expectations for better success than currently exists.Winning really matters because it changes perception of fans, donors and recruits.The league competition will remain very challenging which means Rutgers can't stand idle and think other teams will fall down to their level of talent.

 

[soundcrib]

5-7

 

[RuBird]

Sign up for 4 wins ? You’re kidding right . Can you set the bar any lower?
If only beating Powehouses Texas St., Buffalo, Kansas, and Illinois makes you feel good about the state of our Program I don’t what to tell you.

Read my posts again. I said I’d take 4 with no blowouts COMPARED to 5 wins with blowouts. I was trying to say can’t go by number of victories. Would recruits feel good that we sneak by Maryland with a 1 pt victory or play every game with a chance to win late in the fourth quarter.

You don’t have to “tell” me anything. I actually think we will surprise many and get 6 wins. Again though I am more concerned about perception

 

[BigTenRutgers_rivals663048]

I feel like I’ve posted this before but the surest way to stay a bottom dweller of the conference is to fire head coaches every 3 years. Someone (SB Nation maybe?) did an article with the research and data to back this up. If I have time later I’ll look for it .

Legitimate point. It's one thing to get pounded in the Big Ten, but another when you're losing at home to Eastern Michigan.

I feel like if Ash wins 3 or 4 games this year and doesn't get fired, it's strictly for continuity purposes and a pre-determination that he's getting 4 years no matter what. Hopefully the team wins 5 or 6 and this is a moot point.

 

[LevaosLectures]

Remind me again which conferences Rutgers was in during these coaches tenures. Can not only go by wins

Kyle Flood was in the Big Ten.

 

[wheezer]

I would be disappointed with less than 5 wins

No firing on the horizon regardless

 

[RUinHouston59]

If RU goes to a bowl game this year, Ash gets B10 coach of the year and an extension.

 

[DJ Spanky]

If RU goes to a bowl game this year, Ash gets B10 coach of the year and an extension.

You do realize that saying this could result in some people hoping we don't make a bowl game, don't you?

 

[BigTenRutgers_rivals663048]

If RU goes to a bowl game this year, Ash gets B10 coach of the year and an extension.

Hey, Terry Shea won Big East Coach of the Year in his third season, so you never know!

 

[RuBird]

Kyle Flood was in the Big Ten.

Well aware but OP had two coaches who were not.

 

[RuBird]

We also will be playing 9 conference games vs 8 for Flood

 

[RUinHouston59]

You do realize that saying this could result in some people hoping we don't make a bowl game, don't you?

Their hope has never won or lost a game.

 

[JCKnight]

Legitimate point. It's one thing to get pounded in the Big Ten, but another when you're losing at home to Eastern Michigan.

I feel like if Ash wins 3 or 4 games this year and doesn't get fired, it's strictly for continuity purposes and a pre-determination that he's getting 4 years no matter what. Hopefully the team wins 5 or 6 and this is a moot point.

“Strictly for continuity and pre-determined” sorry you aren’t a troll but you’ve really shown you have a significant lack of knowledge when it comes to college football and building a program just stop already

 

[JCKnight]

I feel like I’ve posted this before but the surest way to stay a bottom dweller of the conference is to fire head coaches every 3 years. Someone (SB Nation maybe?) did an article with the research and data to back this up. If I have time later I’ll look for it.

Basically though firing a head coach usually results in the new coach being the opposite of the previous coach. Spread v Pro Style or Offensive minded v Defensive minded. Which leads to the new coach needing time to get his players in to fit his new scheme. New coach doesn’t win fast enough and the cycle repeats.

If Ash is changing the culture and doing everything else positive you’re far better keeping him than changing coaches again. Look at Dabo and Dantonio as guys that were given the time to be successful.

Pretty good contribution from a PSU guy...wish our resident closet PSU fan that insists he is a Rutgers guy would post with such logic...

However there is ONE critical flaw in this...we have not changed head coaches yet we HAVE flip flopped rpepeatedlt between being a pro style vs spread offense with our revolving door at OC which IMO has really hurt our recruiting efforts

 

[seels2662]

Its a valid point that went too far.

Ash will not get fired for 4-8 or even if he goes 2-10

In fact if this 2019 recruiting class is really good he is solid even next year.

However if this is a 4-8 season and recruiting does not pick up he is 100% on the hot seat in 2019. 4-8 three seasons in a row will equal a coaching change.

 

[ScarletCrimson]

Bowl or bust.

 

[jason21psu]

Pretty good contribution from a PSU guy...wish our resident closet PSU fan that insists he is a Rutgers guy would post with such logic...

However there is ONE critical flaw in this...we have not changed head coaches yet we HAVE flip flopped rpepeatedlt between being a pro style vs spread offense with our revolving door at OC which IMO has really hurt our recruiting efforts

It’s funny cause when I was writing I was thinking that’s what may do Ash in. Swapping offensive schemes every year. I think that’s the one part of his tenure that the criticism is 100% justified.

We’ll never know but I think if you replaced Mehringer with another (i.e. better & more experience) spread guy you’d be further along in the rebuilding v going with Kill last year.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Its a valid point that went too far.

Ash will not get fired for 4-8 or even if he goes 2-10

In fact if this 2019 recruiting class is really good he is solid even next year.

However if this is a 4-8 season and recruiting does not pick up he is 100% on the hot seat in 2019. 4-8 three seasons in a row will equal a coaching change.

He could be winless this year and I don't think he'd get fired. We just extended his contract don't forget too. He could have 4-5 wins next year and I'd still say better than 50% chance he'll see year 5. In year 5, he'd have to come up with at least a 6-7 win season to stick around but that's year 5. I don't expect any itchy trigger fingers from Hobbs, especially for his own hire.

I think he'd have to have less than 4 wins in both of the next 2 years for him realistically not to see year 5.

 

[BigTenRutgers_rivals663048]

He could be winless this year and I don't think he'd get fired.

Sorry, but this is crazy. I don't think Ash would last the season if we lost to Texas State (which won't happen).

I think he'd have to have less than 4 wins in both of the next 2 years for him realistically not to see year 5.

Serious question: what has Ash done so far to earn that privilege?

 

[DJ Spanky]

 

[JoeRU0304]

“Strictly for continuity and pre-determined” sorry you aren’t a troll but you’ve really shown you have a significant lack of knowledge when it comes to college football and building a program just stop already

Also, why do some people act like the EMU loss is like this unprecedented event? Do they really have that poor of a sense of context regarding our own history? Did Buffanova not happen in their parallel universe? Do they not realize that in 2002 Buffalo beat us for their ONLY win of the year, destroying us AT Rutgers 34-11, and they had won something like 5 games combined in the 4 seasons prior to that? Did a putrid Tulane team not beat us on Homeconing in 2010 in their version of reality? Did we not lose to a lousy 3-9 UConn team that was as actively losing BCS/P5 status by double-digits in 2013 in their version of time? Why do they act like Ash invented and patented ‘that game’ here at Rutgers?


Joe P.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Sorry, but this is crazy. I don't think Ash would last the season if we lost to Texas State (which won't happen).
Serious question: what has Ash done so far to earn that privilege?

It's not going to happen but it's basically making the point that he's not getting fired this year no matter what barring off the field issues.

As far as earning the privilege, that's neither here nor there. There's only 1 guy making the decision and that's Hobbs and I tend to think he's going to give a lot of rope and have plenty of patience for his own hire.