WV teacher strke

rog1187

All-American
May 29, 2001
70,024
5,613
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I am, but I can't speak for all of us. There are reviews already in place here in my state and every 5 years when our license is due we have to walk through those processes. We have district evaluators in our classrooms several times per school year as well as administrators. It is a fairly painstaking process that would be made infinitely better if at the end we had the opportunity of a pay increase at the end of the tunnel. As it stands, it's a process to grade how well we do with no incentives at all. When I worked at Pizza Hut in college we had a bi-annual evaluation period with a raise opportunity of 5-10 cents per hour. It wasn't much, but every little bit helps. I wouldn't be looking for a 50% salary increase or anything crazy, but the prospect of a better life for me and my family would be a great motivator.

One thing I KNOW should not be included is test scores. I know that's the easiest thing from the outside to use to measure success, but there are far too many issues outside of the classroom that play a much more important role in those measurements. I've taught in affluent schools where 75-80% of the students are expected to go to college from their parents and I currently teach in a school where the same number of parents barely graduated high school. The expectation to do well just isn't here, and test scores reflect that. Sure, the cream always rises to the top, but there's not enough of that here to make a difference on the standardized tests. To punish good, hard working teachers who just don't have the work ethic and support from home isn't fair. Come watch me work, critique me, and give me advice all you want. I'm willing to do what it takes and jump through all the hoops you throw my way for a better life.
Hey we can use the same crutch for physician quality initiatives - poor home support is why patient A is non compliant and why his BMI is off the charts and why he never takes his meds correctly or he never gets the testing done he’s supposed to. But guess what, that patient still impacts the quality score of the doc. Why should it be any different for teachers?
 

pacs life

Sophomore
Nov 23, 2010
4,736
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Cant wait to see the improved educations our students will be receive, the reduction in teachers leaving for other states and the increase in the quality of teachers we have in our classrooms.

Now watch and see the teachers try and negotiate getting rid of making up these vacation days.
 

bornaneer

All-Conference
Jan 23, 2014
30,946
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First...I have no dog in this fight other than being a WV taxpayer that is glad the teachers and workers are getting a well deserved pay raise and I'm willing to pay more taxes if needed.
However, I do have a question. Who was in office when this PEIA program was instituted and when did it start?
 

pic369

Freshman
Feb 3, 2005
6,323
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Hey we can use the same crutch for physician quality initiatives - poor home support is why patient A is non compliant and why his BMI is off the charts and why he never takes his meds correctly or he never gets the testing done he’s supposed to. But guess what, that patient still impacts the quality score of the doc. Why should it be any different for teachers?
We can agree to disagree, I'm fine with that. But you've not been in a classroom administering a standardized test where half of the students finish in 10 minutes and others try to sleep the entire time. You see that take place and tell me it's fair to hold their science teacher or English teacher accountable when that's the effort they give. Schools do not provide incentives for the students to try their best and there are no consequences if they don't. Not to mention in WV the completely backward logic exists of students being tested at the grade level when in high school different subjects are taken at different points in the 4 years. We'll test a 9th grader in Geometry on subject material they covered a year or more earlier in Algebra 1 and somehow that's an indicator of how well their high school teacher (who didn't teach them Algebra) did.

There's a lot about the system that would need to be fixed in order to accurately grade a teacher on the student outcome.

EDIT: Let me add a true story to articulate my point. A few years back I taught in a public high school in WV (Kanawha Co). We had the lowest Smarter Balanced scores of any school in our district and it wasn't very close. At the same time, we had more Promise Scholars per capita than all but 1 school in the district. Which of those two statistics would you think validates the education those students got? A test with no accountability, or the results over a 4-year period where more students went to college for free (and/or reduced) cost than all but one high school in the county? Yet, the only thing the state wants to assess is their test. It's not fair to the school or the teachers in it.
 
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goxybr

Senior
Aug 30, 2001
18,776
689
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What promised benefits were vested? Won't they have Medicare when they retire? If they retire early they can buy their own health insurance. When I was working I saw my retirement options change several times before I retired but I was aware of what was vested and what was not.
teachers can retire with full pension and benefits at 55 with 30 years of service. teachers who retire early can have PEIA insurance until they hit 65. when on medicare they probably offer a medicare supplement.
 

rog1187

All-American
May 29, 2001
70,024
5,613
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We can agree to disagree, I'm fine with that. But you've not been in a classroom administering a standardized test where half of the students finish in 10 minutes and others try to sleep the entire time. You see that take place and tell me it's fair to hold their science teacher or English teacher accountable when that's the effort they give. Schools do not provide incentives for the students to try their best and there are no consequences if they don't. Not to mention in WV the completely backward logic exists of students being tested at the grade level when in high school different subjects are taken at different points in the 4 years. We'll test a 9th grader in Geometry on subject material they covered a year or more earlier in Algebra 1 and somehow that's an indicator of how well their high school teacher (who didn't teach them Algebra) did.

There's a lot about the system that would need to be fixed in order to accurately grade a teacher on the student outcome.

EDIT: Let me add a true story to articulate my point. A few years back I taught in a public high school in WV (Kanawha Co). We had the lowest Smarter Balanced scores of any school in our district and it wasn't very close. At the same time, we had more Promise Scholars per capita than all but 1 school in the district. Which of those two statistics would you think validates the education those students got? A test with no accountability, or the results over a 4-year period where more students went to college for free (and/or reduced) cost than all but one high school in the county? Yet, the only thing the state wants to assess is their test. It's not fair to the school or the teachers in it.
Anyone being judged on quality will tell you they have outliers that shouldn’t be held against them.
 

pic369

Freshman
Feb 3, 2005
6,323
69
48
Anyone being judged on quality will tell you they have outliers that shouldn’t be held against them.
The outliers are becoming the students who TRY, not the ones who don't. And you do realize that you are essentially acknowledging a broken system and the only means of correcting it is with a test created by those who broke the system? Education is WAY screwed up from the top all the way down. I only ask that we are willing to fix the way in which we, as teachers, are being evaluated. Once that process is fair and balanced, then evaluate away.
 

WVUtotheBig12

All-American
Jan 28, 2012
11,858
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That's not exactly true. While there are not many making $70k it took me only a few minutes to find one in Kanawha Co that makes $71,800 along with others in the high 60k range.

I’m not saying you’re incorrect. I was going by the spreadsheet the WVDE produces that lists the total salary for every salary classification and years of experience in every county. The tops that was published in Monongalia County was the number I listed for 35 years of experience.
 
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WVUtotheBig12

All-American
Jan 28, 2012
11,858
5,579
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you are unhinged!! THE PENSION IS A GREAT BENEFIT!!

Where did I ever say the pension isn’t a great benefit to WV teachers? There just aren’t many teachers that are going to average $50,000 in salary over their careers.
 

DocEER

Senior
Dec 5, 2006
13,048
826
0
Hey we can use the same crutch for physician quality initiatives - poor home support is why patient A is non compliant and why his BMI is off the charts and why he never takes his meds correctly or he never gets the testing done he’s supposed to. But guess what, that patient still impacts the quality score of the doc. Why should it be any different for teachers?
Preach. What is going to happen is patients who are non compliant based off laziness will be discharged from their physicians care so their numbers will not have to be submitted. Also, watch for altering of numbers by docs/institutions to make their numbers appear better. Say you come in with a BP of 140/90. Per Medicare, your BP is high and I have not done a well enough job in managing you, thus possible payment reduction. What if the MA entering the BP makes it be 139/89, then all of a sudden I am a ******* rockstar and no negative adjustment It is bad news all around for Health Care.
 

WVU enginEER

Senior
Mar 14, 2005
16,176
750
113



 

WVURPH

Redshirt
Feb 4, 2003
802
4
18
Well I think Pharmacists should be the next people to strike because PEIA insurance sucks. We are forced to provide 90 days (sometimes wasteful) of maintenance drugs and lose 20-30 dollars on every brand name we fill. We are barely making money on generic prescriptions. All because CVS Caremark (the Pharmacy Benefits Manager PEIA picked) is cutting reimbursements to the bone and pocketing the spread. If something isn't done soon, I expect that independent pharmacies will choose to not deal with PEIA patients.
 

rog1187

All-American
May 29, 2001
70,024
5,613
113
The outliers are becoming the students who TRY, not the ones who don't. And you do realize that you are essentially acknowledging a broken system and the only means of correcting it is with a test created by those who broke the system? Education is WAY screwed up from the top all the way down. I only ask that we are willing to fix the way in which we, as teachers, are being evaluated. Once that process is fair and balanced, then evaluate away.
No what I'm saying is that every system has outliers...and every score/benchmark has that built into it...you just don't discount it because of outliers.
 

MarvelousMountie

Sophomore
Oct 21, 2005
14,620
163
63
Cant wait to see the improved educations our students will be receive, the reduction in teachers leaving for other states and the increase in the quality of teachers we have in our classrooms.

Now watch and see the teachers try and negotiate getting rid of making up these vacation days.
Well, considering poverty and academic achievement have a negative correlation, and teacher pay and academic achievement have a positive correlation, our teachers are actually beating the average. We rank 2nd in poverty, 48th in teacher pay . . . even after the raise, which will bring us in around 44th, we'll still be doing better than statistical projections for academic achievement.
 

pacs life

Sophomore
Nov 23, 2010
4,736
181
63
Well, considering poverty and academic achievement have a negative correlation, and teacher pay and academic achievement have a positive correlation, our teachers are actually beating the average. We rank 2nd in poverty, 48th in teacher pay . . . even after the raise, which will bring us in around 44th, we'll still be doing better than statistical projections for academic achievement.

Sweet, lets hope we can keep those rates up and also lose no more teachers to other states and also recruit more qualified teachers. Plus your numbers were before the pay raise, so everything will be better now.
 

wvu2007

Senior
Jan 2, 2013
21,220
457
0
I’m not saying you’re incorrect. I was going by the spreadsheet the WVDE that lists the total salary for every salary classification and years of experience in every county. The tops that was published in Monongalia County was the number I listed for 35 years of experience.

This is a better link here. This gives the actual salary, peia premium, experience, etc for every teacher in the state.

https://wveis.k12.wv.us/schoolfinance/sf000018.cfm
 

WVUtotheBig12

All-American
Jan 28, 2012
11,858
5,579
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if someone earns a Masters Degree and then elects to become a public school teacher in WV then you get what you deserve, and what was explained to you before hiring. Good Lord, you want more money, take that degree and go into corporate life. You know there is more money there yet you made a choice. Summers off, every holiday is extended, etc.....I get it.

Remember the old adage: People who can't do....teach.

We all can’t sell tires for a living. By the way, you totally destroyed the actual quote.
 

WVUtotheBig12

All-American
Jan 28, 2012
11,858
5,579
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No what I'm saying is that every system has outliers...and every score/benchmark has that built into it...you just don't discount it because of outliers.

What he’s saying is that in too many classrooms now, the outliers are the students who do put in their best efforts and behave in an acceptable manner. Just like I have no idea exactly what it’s like on the job in your area of work, you have no idea what it’s like in most classrooms. There are parents who are very vocal, speaking out against the teacher work stoppage and subsequent pay raise. Why aren’t others speaking out about the substandard job some of them are doing as a parent?
 
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The Elf

Senior
May 29, 2001
15,314
722
113
Work stoppage ended or not, we aren’t going to let this thread peter out with less than 1,000 responses, are we?
 

tjebarr

Senior
Feb 3, 2007
25,122
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Work stoppage ended or not, we aren’t going to let this thread peter out with less than 1,000 responses, are we?

No. What I'd like to see is people in this thread bitching about the teachers last a week in a 7th grade class making $32k a year. Most would **** their pants and walk out the first day crying. The guys pissing on the teachers in this thread wouldn't last a week with middle school kids.
 

wvu2007

Senior
Jan 2, 2013
21,220
457
0
No. What I'd like to see is people in this thread bitching about the teachers last a week in a 7th grade class making $32k a year. Most would **** their pants and walk out the first day crying. The guys pissing on the teachers in this thread wouldn't last a week with middle school kids.

$32k is well below the average a 7th grade teacher makes in WV.
 

eersfan94

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2012
6,209
1,120
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Yeah but after that 30 years, 6% of their salary gets them 60% of their salary for the rest of their lives. There is a big benefit of having that pension. If a teacher averaged 50k over 30 years they would have contributed 90k into retirement plan and would get 30k for the rest of their life. That is an incredible return unless they die early. but there are joint payouts. That is a benefit of working for the government. The rest of us will have fun trying to create our own guaranteed stream of income.
You need to get your facts straight. No teacher in WV gets 60% of their salary in retirement. Perhaps you should double check your facts before posting.