"Wright could turn Nova into Duke 2.0"

[mktmaker]

NCAA championship: Jay Wright has options, and his best is to turn Villanova into Duke 2.0

NBA teams would hire Jay Wright, as would even-larger college powers, but why leave?

by Reid Forgrave
Apr 3, 2018

• Blueblood status for his school. The toughest club to crack in college basketball is the blueblood club. It takes into account a program's sustained history of excellence as well as its current winning ways. Villanova won 165 games during this five-year stretch; that ties an all-time record. Since Villanova won its first national title in 1985, here are the programs that have won three or more national titles: Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, UConn. Wright has turned Villanova into a blueblood. Period.



I usually don't let things like this irritate me.

Why not use the term "elite"? Is Duke now the standard to which all programs should aspire?

(Sorry if already posted.)

 

[ganner918_rivals60369]

It's probably because they're the only team to join the ultra-elite group in the modern era. Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, IU, all these programs are old money, their history goes back to before the shot clock, before the 3 point line, before the tournament was seeded, before more than one team per conference got in the tournament. We're the teams that made college basketball. Duke is now part of that group of ultra-elite, but they didn't get there until recently. They were rising in the 80s and didn't win a title until the 90s. Other teams have risen up for a while, and fallen away, but Duke is now with Kentucky, UNC, and Kansas in that "always good, always relevant royalty" group. Nobody can become Kentucky or Carolina or Kansas - we've been there forever and still are. But somebody else could become Duke.

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

Duke has won 5 titles in 25 years, more than any other team in that time span....so yes, Other teams would like to emulate that success.

I loathe the Duke program about as much as anyone, but any team/coach that isn’t trying to replicate the same results is doing it wrong.

 

[wcc31]

We’ve been around on the national stage since 1933. UNC and Kansas can claim similar heritage. Duke is a johnny come lately, so they are the correct comparison here.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

Shouldnt Duke try to become Nova ?

 

[JasonS.]

Believe me, Duke fans will be more annoyed that anyone would compare Villanova to them.

They're both small schools with pretty campuses that play in cool, super-old, little arenas tucked away on a quiet corner of campus.

I guess it's not the craziest analogy.

 

[YouKay]

It's probably because they're the only team to join the ultra-elite group in the modern era. Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, IU, all these programs are old money, their history goes back to before the shot clock, before the 3 point line, before the tournament was seeded, before more than one team per conference got in the tournament. We're the teams that made college basketball. Duke is now part of that group of ultra-elite, but they didn't get there until recently. They were rising in the 80s and didn't win a title until the 90s. Other teams have risen up for a while, and fallen away, but Duke is now with Kentucky, UNC, and Kansas in that "always good, always relevant royalty" group. Nobody can become Kentucky or Carolina or Kansas - we've been there forever and still are. But somebody else could become Duke.

Excellent post. Though Duke was in the Final Four in 1966 and 1978 (UK beat them both times!) Sort of like Villanova winning a one-off championship in 1985 and then not getting back to the top until this decade.

Jay Wright is only 56 and has been at Nova for 17 years. When Krzyzewski had been at Duke for 17 years he had the two titles in 1991-92 but missed out the next 8 years. Some were wondering if he could get back to the top. There's no reason Wright cannot win another 3 titles if he sticks around another 17 years, especially given how dominant Nova is in the Big East.

 

[YouKay]

Believe me, Duke fans will be more annoyed that anyone would compare Villanova to them.

They're both small schools with pretty campuses that play in cool, super-old, little arenas tucked away on a quiet corner of campus.

I guess it's not the craziest analogy.

I imagine Duke fans would bristle at this, because they think no one in the history of ever can or will do what K has done there. Also Villanova is a great school but nowhere near as exclusive as Duke.

 

[UKUGA]

If Fox Sports develops the cache and influence of ESPN, then maybe they can help rig some titles for Nova.

I just don’t see the interest level being there. Duke is a unique situation. They had the coach, the conference, the name, the necessary rivalries for ESPN to claim them as their own, and run with them during a time when sports, cable tv, and eventually the Internet exploded.

If and when Nova falls off, there won’t be the same interest in propping them back-up, because not enough people will care.

 

[UKcatXXXL]

Kentucky is the standard - PERIOD

Most wins all time
First team to reach 2000 wins
Best winning % all time
Most players in the NBA
Most championships without cheating (ucla)

Like WTF

 

[qwesley]

They are simply the new UConn which is a very good thing. The northeast puts out fantastic guards which is where the game is centered now.

 

[JamesLee]

I am not sure how Duke's facilities compare to others but I would argue that the more accurate argument would be "Wright could become Mike Kyzafdsjflasdjlfjaslasdfjksda;i 2.0" Last time I checked it was Coach K who won all of Duke's titles. Duke isn't some historically dominant school once you start looking at the years prior to Coach K. Their program's success is a product of Coach K more than Coach K is a benefactor of Duke's prestige. I hate giving ole ratface that kind of credit but it's impossible to deny. He is their program and the "Duke faithful" need to start bracing for impact when K retires and their program hits that wall.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Same writer who a week ago was suggesting KU was going to be the champ.Fine three years for Wright/Nova but no guarantee Nova keeps it up like they have.

 

[mktmaker]

Duke has won 5 titles in 25 years, more than any other team in that time span....so yes, Other teams would like to emulate that success.

I loathe the Duke program about as much as anyone, but any team/coach that isn’t trying to replicate the same results is doing it wrong.

Well, if we want to cherry pick a time span...

UNC has won 3 titles in the last 15 years...to Duke's 2.

UConn has won 4 titles in the last 20 years.

(It only took Kansas 57 years to win their 3 titles.)

 

[morgousky]

Well, if we want to cherry pick a time span...

UNC has won 3 titles in the last 15 years...to Duke's 2.

UConn has won 4 titles in the last 20 years.

(It only took Kansas 57 years to win their 3 titles.)

22 years.

Kentucky - 3

Duke - 3

UNC** - 3

Nova - 2

Florida - 2

Kansas - 1


Or maybe go back 100 years.

Kentucky 15

Duke 5

Kansas 5

If you aren't chasing Kentucky you aren't doing It right.

 

[mktmaker]

Or maybe go back 100 years.

Kentucky 15

Duke 5

Kansas 5

If you aren't chasing Kentucky you aren't doing It right.

You're not going all carb on us, are you?

 

[morgousky]

You're not going all carb on us, are you?

Figured with Kansas pumping 5 and UNC pumping 7, some of us should explain in horrific deatail how altering your championships will not help you.

 

[mktmaker]

Figured with Kansas pumping 5 and UNC pumping 7, some of us should explain in horrific deatail how altering your championships will not help you.

As I understand it:

1) Hang Helms banner
2) Notify ESPN, CBS, TBS, et al. Provide photos for "proof."
3) Lather, rinse, repeat

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I figured this comparison was coming. Either the Duke comparison or UConn.

 

[Looksbetterinblue]

Nova is a great team. But blue blood, meh. They could be the next Duke. Could go the way of FL or even UConn. We will have to wait and see.
Be irritated. Blue blood is an opinion. By definition it refers to the blood and history of a program. I can make millions today and my family is not a blue blood. I don’t really care either way, But it seems to be an issue for some

Elite? I would agree with that word for sure when referring to current day Nova.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Duke has won 5 titles in 25 years, more than any other team in that time span....so yes, Other teams would like to emulate that success.

I loathe the Duke program about as much as anyone, but any team/coach that isn’t trying to replicate the same results is doing it wrong.

Give UK Duke's advantages over the past 25 or 30 and we have 7 or 8 titles in that span. Hell, Duke won in 2010 with NO PG. Name me another team that's done that. I'll wait....

Edit: Also, I'm almost positive they're the only program that's ever won a national title without first A) winning their conference tourney or B) winning their conference outright - 2015. Imagine that.

 

[Duke Bluu]

If you’re chasing Kentucky then you must win the title with several different coaches. I doubt NOVA is interested in that for the time being

 

[Elliott Tim]

I am not sure how Duke's facilities compare to others but I would argue that the more accurate argument would be "Wright could become Mike Kyzafdsjflasdjlfjaslasdfjksda;i 2.0" Last time I checked it was Coach K who won all of Duke's titles. Duke isn't some historically dominant school once you start looking at the years prior to Coach K. Their program's success is a product of Coach K more than Coach K is a benefactor of Duke's prestige. I hate giving ole ratface that kind of credit but it's impossible to deny. He is their program and the "Duke faithful" need to start bracing for impact when K retires and their program hits that wall.

When Dean Smith retired he had 2 c'ships. He coached 36 years. Ol' Roy has 3 titles since 2004. That's one more than Smith.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

If you’re chasing Kentucky then you must win the title with several different coaches. I doubt NOVA is interested in that for the time being

Quick question - would you rather have eight titles with five coaches or five with one coach? Just curious on your outlook on this.

 

[gracetoyou]

[roll]

That article is just stupid!

Where was that article Billy Donavon would turn Florida into Duke 2.0 after winning back to back chips?

Jumping the gun on Wright. If more teams start having talent return Wright & Nova will be right back where they always were.

 

[Looksbetterinblue]

I think 8 with 5. Says more about the school and program than the coach which I think adds to history/ time and blue blood status.

 

[Duke Bluu]

Quick question - would you rather have eight titles with five coaches or five with one coach? Just curious on your outlook on this.

I would rather have the eight but my point is this, had Pitino stayed and kept his nose clean who knows how many more titles you have. I would think Nova would WANT to keep the guy who is winning right now as opposed to starting over.

 

[morgousky]

If you’re chasing Kentucky then you must win the title with several different coaches. I doubt NOVA is interested in that for the time being

5 different coaches to be exact.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I think 8 with 5. Says more about the school and program than the coach which I think adds to history/ time and blue blood status.

I definitely agree. I've just heard several Duke fans say the opposite. I find it very humorous. Every time I hear/see that, it gives me quite the chuckle. [laughing]

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I would rather have the eight but my point is this, had Pitino stayed and kept his nose clean who knows how many more titles you have. I would think Nova would WANT to keep the guy who is winning right now as opposed to starting over.

I agree. I don't think he would've been "dirty" here. No reason to be. I think Pitino would probably have four or five, minimum, if he had stayed.

 

[Looksbetterinblue]

I definitely agree. I've just heard several Duke fans say the opposite. I find it very humorous. Every time I hear/see that, it gives me quite the chuckle. [laughing]

They say that because they are worried about what happens when they lose K

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I would rather have the eight but my point is this, had Pitino stayed and kept his nose clean who knows how many more titles you have. I would think Nova would WANT to keep the guy who is winning right now as opposed to starting over.

Always makes me wonder how many K would have, had Pitino stayed. Pitino and UK were on FIRE when he left. Anddddd Pitino was the best in the business then.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

They say that because they are worried about what happens when they lose K

They better be.

 

[Duke Bluu]

They say that because they are worried about what happens when they lose K

It’s just common sense that Duke won’t be the same when K retires. Will Duke turn into Indiana, UCONN, UCLA etc.... We don’t know. Too many factors. I think Duke is a highly desirable job. I’ve been to the campus and the facilities are great, and it’s just a cool place and conference to play ball. It simply will depend on what Coach comes in, and the level of commitment by the school and K’s involvement during the transition period.

 

[mktmaker]

It’s just common sense that Duke won’t be the same when K retires. Will Duke turn into Indiana, UCONN, UCLA etc.... We don’t know. Too many factors. I think Duke is a highly desirable job. I’ve been to the campus and the facilities are great, and it’s just a cool place and conference to play ball. It simply will depend on what Coach comes in, and the level of commitment by the school and K’s involvement during the transition period.

Duke Blu,

"The future's not ours to see..."

Kansas got it right. Larry Brown...Roy...Self

Indiana? Mike Davis...Kelvin Sampson...Crean...Archie (TBD)

 

[Cowtown Cat]

It’s just common sense that Duke won’t be the same when K retires. Will Duke turn into Indiana, UCONN, UCLA etc.... We don’t know. Too many factors. I think Duke is a highly desirable job. I’ve been to the campus and the facilities are great, and it’s just a cool place and conference to play ball. It simply will depend on what Coach comes in, and the level of commitment by the school and K’s involvement during the transition period.

Two questions for you: Who do you think they will hire after K leaves? Also, who would be your choice? You seem like a reasonable Duke fan. You've been a pretty good poster as far as I can tell. Thus, me talking to you.

 

[Duke Bluu]

Two questions for you: Who do you think they will hire after K leaves? Also, who would be your choice? You seem like a reasonable Duke fan. You've been a pretty good poster as far as I can tell. Thus, me talking to you.

My first choice is Brad Stevens, and I’m a long time Celtic fan but I love Duke more. That’s my dream pick. I think he checks all the boxes. Duke is a brand with a pretty boy image, even the OAD guys are looked at as “different” than most others (its bs I know) but back to my point, Stevens has that look and coached at a private school in Butler. With that said, that’s a pipe dream.

Realistically? I don’t know and that scares me. Most likely stays in the family. I don’t think it will be Capel, which is probably why he left to Pitt. I don’t think it will be Dawkins who’s time has passed and who’s stock is down.

Amaker (resurgence at Harvard)

Chris Collins (doing well at Northwestern, well known dad as a coach)

Bobby Hurley (doing well at Arizona St, well known dad as a coach hall of fame)

What I’m prepared for is what Carolina went through before Roy Williams arrived.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

My first choice is Brad Stevens, and I’m a long time Celtic fan but I love Duke more. That’s my dream pick. I think he checks all the boxes. Duke is a brand with a pretty boy image, even the OAD guys are looked at as “different” than most others (its bs I know) but back to my point, Stevens has that look and coached at a private school in Butler. With that said, that’s a pipe dream.

Realistically? I don’t know and that scares me. Most likely stays in the family. I don’t think it will be Capel, which is probably why he left to Pitt. I don’t think it will be Dawkins who’s time has passed and who’s stock is down.

Amaker (resurgence at Harvard)

Chris Collins (doing well at Northwestern, well known dad as a coach)

Bobby Hurley (doing well at Arizona St, well known dad as a coach hall of fame)

What I’m prepared for is what Carolina went through before Roy Williams arrived.

Let me reword that - what ex Duke player would be your choice? I think it'll ultimately be a Duke guy.

 

[Duke Bluu]

Bobby Hurley

I grew up in New Jersey. I was actually going to go to St Anthony of NJ to try to play ball but that didn’t work out. I know all about that family and the genius that is Hurley Sr.

I don’t think it is a mistake that boy of his bigs have had success at multiple schools now. Bobby is fiery, he’s from Jersey City so he can relate to a lot of kids from urban areas.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I imagine Duke fans would bristle at this, because they think no one in the history of ever can or will do what K has done there. Also Villanova is a great school but nowhere near as exclusive as Duke.

Plus Nova doesn't flop around like pansies or recruit dudes you want to punch thru the T.V..