Isn't that another reason that would explain why men are paid more. Even if the men and women's team bring in the same net revenue excluding player costs, then the men would presumably get more b/c they have a lucrative profession that they are putting at risk, while the women's players mostly do not.
WNT: "equal pay" & "fair pay"?
- Thread starter Walter White.sixpack
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Isn't that another reason that would explain why men are paid more. Even if the men and women's team bring in the same net revenue excluding player costs, then the men would presumably get more b/c they have a lucrative profession that they are putting at risk, while the women's players mostly do not.
Millions? Really? What sports teams do these hypothetical millions cheer for? Rapinoe's politics are shared by millions of people, including athletes across all sports.
Obviously it's fine to disagree with her, but anyone who decides to stop cheering for the women's national team because of her politics must not be able to root for any team in any sport.
My favorite part about this thread is that some of the people trying to twist themselves into knots explaining why the USWNT shouldn't be paid more are the same people who ***** and moan about college baseball only getting 11.7 scholarships despite it being a niche sport that most Americans don't give a rat's *** about.
Yeah, that's a pretty good argument, but I would assume there is some kind of insurance policy that pays out players their expected career earnings if they suffer a career ending injury at the World Cup.
You say you it hasnt been explained where the money will come from, and then you follow that up by immediately saying US Soccer has plenty of money to do it.
...so I would say the money could come from the organization that has plenty of money.
Oh I agree, and I don't know much about where money from US Soccer even comes from. Is it gov't allocated? Is it merchandising, attendance, and FIFA money? I'm honestly curious. I was just saying that all the people who are screaming equal pay aren't saying where that money would be pulled from. Cause we're not going to decrease the men's pay. I probably worded it incorrectly, but I was more saying that while I do believe there's money somewhere to do it I just don't know where that is and no one has came out and stated where that money is located or even how it the money would need to be allocated differently.
I guess we're just gonna ignore
the fact that they aren't paid equal because they aren't equal. The mere existence of a "women's" world cup indicates an inequality. If all things were equal there'd be one national team for each nation made up of the best soccer players from each nation, regardless of gender. Of course that was the case, there would be no women playing. And before I'm called a sexist, I think that would suck. There SHOULD BE women's sports. It's great that they exist. But thinking they should exist doesn't change the fact they are inherently unequal.
But this is a classic example where someone has overestimated their own value. The entire existence of women's soccer is a magnanimous gesture. But that's not enough for some people. They turn a blind eye to that and instead demand to be treated as equal to people who are infinitely more talented than they are. Instead of demanding things, they should be grateful for the opportunity to represent their country and play a game they love. As far as I'm concerned Megan Rapinoe can try out for the men's team any time she wants. When she can't make the U-16 team (which routinely beats women's teams in practice) she can come back and talk about how unequally she's been treated.
the fact that they aren't paid equal because they aren't equal. The mere existence of a "women's" world cup indicates an inequality. If all things were equal there'd be one national team for each nation made up of the best soccer players from each nation, regardless of gender. Of course that was the case, there would be no women playing. And before I'm called a sexist, I think that would suck. There SHOULD BE women's sports. It's great that they exist. But thinking they should exist doesn't change the fact they are inherently unequal.
But this is a classic example where someone has overestimated their own value. The entire existence of women's soccer is a magnanimous gesture. But that's not enough for some people. They turn a blind eye to that and instead demand to be treated as equal to people who are infinitely more talented than they are. Instead of demanding things, they should be grateful for the opportunity to represent their country and play a game they love. As far as I'm concerned Megan Rapinoe can try out for the men's team any time she wants. When she can't make the U-16 team (which routinely beats women's teams in practice) she can come back and talk about how unequally she's been treated.
It’s a stupid argument. The women need to build their sport like the men have and let the market dictate the pay.
If company A and B both make $1 million this year, but company A has been around for 10 years whereas company B is a startup. You can guarantee the CEO of company A makes the higher salary. Revenue is only one of many many factors that dictates the market rate.
If company A and B both make $1 million this year, but company A has been around for 10 years whereas company B is a startup. You can guarantee the CEO of company A makes the higher salary. Revenue is only one of many many factors that dictates the market rate.
I’ve tried to research this but it’s hard to find good data.
Ticket revenue seems to be higher for women’s soccer than US men’s soccer.
But ticket revenue isn’t the only revenue.
People should be paid what they are worth not who they are or what gender they are. Define worth? Worth to me would be the money you generate for me. If you generate more money and minimize expenses, I’ll pay you more than if you generate less money with higher expenses.
It appears based on what I can find THEY deserve more money than the men but AGAIN very little info out there on it.
Again, based on the limited info, this seems to be the ONE instance where an actual pay gap might exist between women and men.
THEY ALSO SIGNED A CONTRACT. If they are worth more, they should hold out on the next contract until they get what they are worth.
Ticket revenue seems to be higher for women’s soccer than US men’s soccer.
But ticket revenue isn’t the only revenue.
People should be paid what they are worth not who they are or what gender they are. Define worth? Worth to me would be the money you generate for me. If you generate more money and minimize expenses, I’ll pay you more than if you generate less money with higher expenses.
It appears based on what I can find THEY deserve more money than the men but AGAIN very little info out there on it.
Again, based on the limited info, this seems to be the ONE instance where an actual pay gap might exist between women and men.
THEY ALSO SIGNED A CONTRACT. If they are worth more, they should hold out on the next contract until they get what they are worth.
So you don’t think revenue should have anything to do with the pay?
Really?
How socialist of you.
Really?
How socialist of you.
What you are saying they should do is exactly what the WNT is proposing. From the CNBC article:
According to the lawsuit, the Women's National Team Player's Association (WNTPA) has proposed a revenue-sharing model to "test the USSF's 'market realities' theory," describing a proposal that would tie player compensation to revenue generated by the women's national team for USSF.
You DO know that soccer isn't just the stupid World Cup don't you? My CLUB generates more revenue than the entire 4 year women's qualifying and world cup. That's ONE club. The EPL generates more than the entire women's sport, WAY more. That's just one league.
As for the SEC we don't play in the playoff, yet we get money from it.
Personally I could care less about women's soccer or MEN's international soccer. It's not the game played at its highest level. It's only function as far as I'm concerned is to get Liverpool players hurt. We had two come back this summer so far hurt.
Its the EXACT arguement being made here. International soccer teams ARE professional teams in every sense of the word.
The Premier League also generated more revenue in 2018 than the men's World Cup did as well. Agree about men's international soccer. It's a huge waste and the quality of play isn't as good as you see every weekend in the top European leagues. With a 10-month league season, if I were a top player, I'd take a few weekends plus the summer off rather than play international soccer. For the women's game, the international game is better than club level play (but that could change in a decade or two with the European leagues now playing women's club soccer).
I don’t have a “dog” in the soccer hunt but it’s strictly economics and has ZERO to do with gender or race or whatever. And from what I read and others have posted, it’s determined by a pool from FIFA and the revenue each tournament generates! They are basically saying the WNBA players should be paid the same as NBA players!!
This isn’t like working for any corporation and that company pays a man $100K and the woman for doing $50K for the exact same job and performance.
This isn’t like working for any corporation and that company pays a man $100K and the woman for doing $50K for the exact same job and performance.
Yes, I’m aware its much bigger than the WC and have already made that exact point TWICE in this thread. The WSJ / CNBC also made the point when comparing non-WC events over the past 3 years, the WNT has generated more revenue than the men’s team over the ENTIRE period. The only saving grace the MNT has is being able to make the WC and get their massive share of the TV revenue from international viewers....which is something they failed to do the last time out.
Nobody cares what your club in Europe does as it relates to this argument. No European soccer league or team revenue has anything to do with the US national team pay scale for men or women’s teams. But since you brought it up, you might also want to note how much more revenue they bring in than MLS. When comparing the revenue in international competition in non-WC events (apples to apples), the women brought in more money. Facts.
As for the SEC, still don’t have a clue what you are getting at. You need to check how little we get from the CFP conpared to SEC Network, combined bowl payouts from all teams, donations, etc. If we get 2 teams in the CFP, they get a semifinal payout of $6 million each, so $12 million total. Split that up 14 ways, and its less than $1 million per school. For an athletic department such as ours that is pushing $100 million in budget, it is nothing more than a drop in the bucket.
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You must have replied to the wrong post. I have no idea how that applies to what I posted.
I just googled it. While some are arguing that WNBA salaries should be higher, no one is arguing that they should equal the NBA.
Like I said, professional teams and national teams are a whole different universe with different situations that can't be directly compared.
They just negotiated their contract in 2017 and ended up with a higher guaranteed payment than the men. Maybe the federation is the party that demanded they take more guaranteed pay instead of performance pay b/c it felt like the women's team was going to be very good and that was a better financial bet for them. Maybe the players valued the certainty in pay since they don't have lucrative contracts with private clubs. The women are filing suit, so I would hope they aren't suing after they were the ones that negotiated for higher guaranteed pay and a lower potential payout.
It's a little weird to me though. Their contract isn't that old. It was negotiated when the men were producing more revenue. It's paying them pretty closely to what men would make. Seems like the federation and the employees could and would sit down and negotiate a new contract going forward if the women wanted to take more risk.
ETA: Looking through the lawsuit, they claim:
"During collective bargaining for a new contract, USSF rejected requests for compensation for the WNT players that would have been at least equal to that afforded to the male MNT players."
That is either poor drafting of the complaint, or an acknowledgment that they were not asking for an equivalent deal as the men.
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As already stated on this thread, national teams are a service that players do to their country. It's not the players' main jobs like professional leagues are, and in fact the professional leagues would abolish the national teams if they could get away with it.
National teams are a vehicle for fans to get their patriotic feels on. The players are cutting into their career to provide that to the fans. It's a totally different animal from professional teams.
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I've never attended a Professional Soccer Match.
Male or Female.
I doubt many on here have.
But, I suspect about zero for the female game.
Male or Female.
I doubt many on here have.
But, I suspect about zero for the female game.
So what?
They don’t have to play in it. Nothing you said made any intelligent sense on why the pay should be different for a national team vs a professional.
They don’t have to play in it. Nothing you said made any intelligent sense on why the pay should be different for a national team vs a professional.
Because it's inherently different. The earlier example of Liverpool FC recruits players from all over the world for one purpose, to win, and pays a huge range of salaries based on a player's ability. The values are listed here and when converted to dollars range from around $650,000 to around $13,000,000, a 20:1 ratio that lines up with player's contribution to the goal of winning.
National teams are a totally different animal. The salaries are much smaller, and much more equal. The players don't sign up for it for the money, it's out of their own sense of patriotic duty, or to make their country's fans proud. They're doing a favor to the country to be playing, putting themselves and therefore their professional teams at risk.
And let's remember there will still be a chance for the market to determine who gets more in endorsement deals in all that (for example I suspect Rapinoe will make more in that department this year than any male American player), but the salary from the USSF should recognize the equal service they're doing for all of us.
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The USSF gets to pay whatever they want if they don’t discriminate in regards to the law.
That’s pretty simple.
The law matters not our opinions.
That’s pretty simple.
The law matters not our opinions.
The truth hurts. There are so many reading this and just dying to lay into you about how you're a "misogynist".
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Its their job. You can’t tell me in today’s world that professional athletes shouldn’t care about salary and incentives.
And you can’t tell me that owners shouldn’t care abt expenses/profits/the bottom line.
I agree they should care and get as much as possible, but I don’t agree with QKing that the pay should be exactly the same bc it’s a “national” team.
I agree they should care and get as much as possible, but I don’t agree with QKing that the pay should be exactly the same bc it’s a “national” team.
Boy I feel sorry for those of you that have daughters and think the USWNT shouldn’t be paid equally to the men. Soccer has grown exponentially in the US over the past 20 years. A giant part of that is because of the success of the women. Additionally, the women generate more revenue than the men’s team in the US on a year over year basis. The men can’t even qualify for the World Cup and they still made more money just by losing for the past 4 years. This entire argument against the women is an uneducated joke.
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