Without getting this thread locked - Starkville'sEquality vote is today

[57stratdawg]

I believe. My general understanding of this has been last year Starkville passed a very progressive ordinance allowing gay couples to be covered under similar insurance policies. That got overturned by the city council after almost a year a couple weeks ago "to get back to the city's Christian values". Weisman than vetoed that, but if a large enough portion of the city council vote to overturn the veto today, the ordinance will ultimately be dead. Anyway, kind of neat to think people all over the country are watching Starkville today.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Funny how the "Christian values" crowd conveniently ignores the fact that many Christian denominations, including Episcopals, some Lutherans, etc., perform gay marriages. To an Episcopal, having gay marriage is a "Christian value" and disallowing it is anti-Christian.

As someone who was married in the Episcopal Church, in which marriage is a holy sacrament, it is very alarming to see other Christians declare that some valid Episcopal marriages aren't real and shouldn't be recognized by our secular government -- if valid Episcopal marriages between same-sex partners aren't "real," then logically, my valid Episcopal opposite-sex marriage must not be "real" either, right? Well that's pretty ******...

 

[ArcherSPS]

Really good point there. We really need to get Ben Carver the 17 out of office.

 

[Wicked Pissah]

These votes are all so dumb. Just legalize it all. It will be eventually anyway. Why do people fight change so hard? Weed and gay marriage will be legal in MS (last state prob) but it will happen.

And the world will go on and nobody will give a ****. I looked up some info on the fellah you mentioned. Yeah, his voting record is horrible and folks like him are the reason MS is dead last in almost everything.

MS and the south in general has always been a do as i say state, not as I do. Pretty much why we are the dumbest, poorest and sluttiest but also the most religious? Wake up.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

if valid Episcopal marriages between same-sex partners aren't "real," then logically, my valid Episcopal opposite-sex marriage must not be "real" either, right? Well that's pretty ******...

that is fine by me.

if you kill someone in self defense, did you not murder?

 

[Wicked Pissah]

that is fine by me.

if you kill someone in self defense, did you not murder?

No, you didnt.

 

[JungRebel]

That's what we call a language game. Legally the answer is "No," but legal definitions are different from personal definitions in a large number of cases.

 

[was21]

Agree with all except the reason MS is dead last in everything is the state legislature. It is more corrupt and inefficient than the one in Washington D.C. And we continue to elect idiot governors who are interested only in maintaining the status quo.

 

[57stratdawg]

No doubt. You're either for it or you're for delaying it. The generational gap on those topics is crazy.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

that is fine by me.

if you kill someone in self defense, did you not murder?

Probably not, but I guess it would be up to a court of law to decide.

I'm not sure what that has to do with whether the government should recognize some valid marriages performed by Christian denominations (and I'm not even talking the weird non-mainstream ones), but not all of them. That sure seems like unacceptable government overreach there. Nor does it pertain to how some denominations of Christianity have appropriated the term "Christian values" to only mean their particular denomination's values.

 

[FQDawg]

I don't have a problem with people having Christian values...

But I do have a problem with politicians who think their own Christian values (or any other set of values) should apply to me (or anyone else) and who use the political process to try to force me to conform to their own life choices.

This whole situation just reaffirms my belief that politicians are douchebags and that the world would be a better place if everyone just minded their own business and stopped worrying about what other people are doing.

 

[FreeDawg]

It's wild how much good has been done in Starkville and how much his opposition (The Starkville old guard) absolutely hate his guts. Hopefully the old guard locals don't make Starkvilke look like a joke while the country is watching.

The funny thing about Christian values is that you're supposed to show love and compassion for everyone. I've never understood how denying gay people equal rights fits that set of values. It's more than just the legaly recognized marriage ceremony. For example, any medical emergency next of kin decision.

 

[esplanade91]

In addition to all the mingling of religion into politics, aren't these people tea party wacko's? Aren't they suppose to be of the party that says people should be allowed to do whatever they want so long as it's not disruptive to others and doesn't cost the taxpayers? Wiseman has already said several times that extending benefits to same-sex couples won't cost the city any more money.

Seems to me that these guys are prying into their neighbors' business, which is something the good book says not to do.

Watch out bad mouthing Carver on here. Someone is friends with him personally and will steer you to his website which says he's pro big business... And he's a really good guy!!!!!!**

 

[mcdawg22]

The Catholics won't be far behind. Pope Francis is fun to have.

 

[JungRebel]

"Resist not an evil person"

Someone tell me how to correctly apply this Christian value.

 

[msstate7]

"Resist not an evil person"

Someone tell me how to correctly apply this Christian value.

Explanation of Matthew 5:39

What Jesus asks of His followers is not passivity, but surrender of the right to personal revenge. His three radical examples make His point about the attitude we should have toward those who wrong us. Rather than getting even, we should be willing to go to the opposite extreme. We need to be ready to humble ourselves for the kingdom of God. We need to understand that vengeance isn’t ours, but the Lord’s ( Romans 12:19 ).

http://questions.org/attq/what-did-jesus-mean-when-he-said-to-turn-the-other-cheek-matthew-539 /

 

[starkvegasdawg]

Just because some mainstream denominations are doing gay marriage does not make it religiously acceptable and mean all denominations should support it and do the same.

Leviticus 18:22

22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. (NIV)

I would love to know how a preacher can perform a gay marriage would try to explain away that passage and others like it.

Now, that being said, I don't think gay people should be harassed or otherwise mistreated. As Christians we are called to hate the sin but love the sinner. I'm not going to assault or humiliate someone for being gay, but that does not mean I have to support their lifestyle and believe they should be able to marry.

 

[esplanade91]

The Bible also not only justifies slavery, it sets clear guidelines on the appropriate ways to beat them.

Look, I'm a believer, but I think people get hung up on certain passages and lose the forest through the trees. The Bible doesn't say that married people get tax incentives or say you have to sign a bunch of paperwork. If it did, then people would have a right to say they shouldn't get married. But we've defined marriage into something completely different in modern times. I just have a hard time accepting that traditional couples get tax breaks and legal rights while same sex couples don't, and we jusify it with religion.

 

[HD6]

That same book in the Bible says don't eat shrimp.

 

[msstate7]

Did God destroy a city of seafood lovers?

 

[HD6]

The first Red Lobster was in Gomorrah.

 

[hydrodawg]

Oh boy

If every there was a book in need of cherry picking it is Leviticus.

Just because some mainstream denominations are doing gay marriage does not make it religiously acceptable and mean all denominations should support it and do the same.

Leviticus 18:22

22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. (NIV)

I would love to know how a preacher can perform a gay marriage would try to explain away that passage and others like it.

Now, that being said, I don't think gay people should be harassed or otherwise mistreated. As Christians we are called to hate the sin but love the sinner. I'm not going to assault or humiliate someone for being gay, but that does not mean I have to support their lifestyle and believe they should be able to marry.

 

[JungRebel]

What makes that interpretation necessary? How can someone oppose sin (e.g. Homosexuality) without it being personal (I.e. without resisting)?

(There is no selfless opposition.)

 

[msstate7]

Haha...

I do believe homosexuality is a sin, but so is my putting miss state sports before God at times (a lot of times). I think the church really preaches against homosexuality more than other sins bc homosexuality isn't their sin of choice

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Just because some mainstream denominations are doing gay marriage does not make it religiously acceptable and mean all denominations should support it and do the same.

Leviticus 18:22

22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. (NIV)

I would love to know how a preacher can perform a gay marriage would try to explain away that passage and others like it.

Now, that being said, I don't think gay people should be harassed or otherwise mistreated. As Christians we are called to hate the sin but love the sinner. I'm not going to assault or humiliate someone for being gay, but that does not mean I have to support their lifestyle and believe they should be able to marry.

Not all denominations take the Bible as literally as yours does.

 

[Faustdog]

Did God destroy a city of seafood lovers?

The Bible also never says that's why Sodom was destroyed. That was a later construct.

 

[starkvegasdawg]

Not all denominations take the Bible as literally as yours does.

And that is between them and God.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Later on we see Solomon have hundreds of concubines.

 

[msstate7]

Later on we see Solomon have hundreds of concubines.

And David commit adultery and murder, then use a murderer like Paul to spread the good news. Good news murderers, liars, gays, straights, adulterers, etc, Jesus can save us all.

Steps down from the pulpit to watch ray's boys turn this thing around

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Whoever is wrong will pay for it in the end. I know that's brutal but whatever. Arguing over what Methodists, Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians believe is the right way is futile. To each his own.

 

[Justanothersmartassmfer]

The Catholic Church moves slowly...

The Catholics won't be far behind. Pope Francis is fun to have.

Las it should. Times change, but the esencse of right and wrong do not. The new pope has been vocal about being more forgiving, which is the more important principal. Do not misinterpret that as being pro gay marriage. I believe the church wants to deemphasize these complicated issues and focus on love they neighbor. Not a bad strategy for a complicated issue.

 

[DesignDawg]

Funny how the "Christian values" crowd conveniently ignores the fact that many Christian denominations, including Episcopals, some Lutherans, etc., perform gay marriages. To an Episcopal, having gay marriage is a "Christian value" and disallowing it is anti-Christian.

As someone who was married in the Episcopal Church, in which marriage is a holy sacrament, it is very alarming to see other Christians declare that some valid Episcopal marriages aren't real and shouldn't be recognized by our secular government -- if valid Episcopal marriages between same-sex partners aren't "real," then logically, my valid Episcopal opposite-sex marriage must not be "real" either, right? Well that's pretty ******...

A common political point of view. Even from within the church.

On another note, have you read the Bible?

 

[ronpolk]

Haha...

I do believe homosexuality is a sin, but so is my putting miss state sports before God at times (a lot of times). I think the church really preaches against homosexuality more than other sins bc homosexuality isn't their sin of choice

Agree with this. I'm fine with the government making same sex marriage legal. In fact, I think it should be done now. A gay person not being able to marry seems to get in the way of their pursuit of happiness.

With that said, as a Christian I understand churches being against gay marriage. The bible is pretty clear and not just Leviticus. Romans in the NT mentions homosexuality too. As long as churches are not forced to perform gay marriages, which I don't believe will happen, then I'm fine with it.

I do believe though that people need to quit attacking the church for denouncing something the bible says is wrong.

 

[ronpolk]

Not all denominations take the Bible as literally as yours does.

Well what is the point then? Any Christian church that does not believe the New Testament is literal has problems.

 

[AFDawg]

There's a big difference between consensual gay sex and what they did at Sodom--which was trying to rape an angel.

There are plenty of other theological and biblical sources you can go to if you want to oppose same-sex relationships. The Sodom story isn't a good one.

 

[preacher_dawg]

As a pastor, I guess I should wade into this, even though I really don't want to. Yes, I believe that homosexuality is a sin, if you believe that the Bible is infallible and without error as I do, then an honest examination of the Bible will tell you that. If you don't hold to my view of the Bible, then that's your decision.

So yes, I believe it is a sin, but so are so many other things. That is not to say we overlook homosexuality, or any sin, but the problem is that we often single out homosexuality. I guess because people in the pew do not struggle with it, or at least say they don't. I have friends that I reach out to who are gay, and when they have asked my opinion, I have been honest with them in love and say that it is a sin.

As for gay marriage, I don't believe in it, and would not perform a same sex wedding, but sometimes I wonder if we as Christians are fighting the right war. Apostle Paul was pretty clear that he really did not care that much what the culture did outside of the church, but what he cared about was what was going on inside the church. That is why in the gay marriage debut, the one thing I am concerned about is the tendency of our culture forcing their views on those who don't accept it, so that as a pastor, I would be required to perform same sex marriages, or that by declaring homosexuality a sin would be labeled as hate speech. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Wicked Pissah]

There's a big difference between consensual gay sex and what they did at Sodom--which was trying to rape an angel.

There are plenty of other theological and biblical sources you can go to if you want to oppose same-sex relationships. The Sodom story isn't a good one.

I guess raping an angel took it too far**

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

that is fine by me.

if you kill someone in self defense, did you not murder?

Here in Texas, "needed killin'" is considered Justifiable Homicide.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

That same book in the Bible says don't eat shrimp.

Acts 10:15

 

[Hammer Down]

Not all denominations take the Bible as literally as yours does.

The Bible is the basis for Christianity. Any group that does not fully trust the Bible, in ALL situations, is not Christian. I do not care about denominations, spare me that. The Bible is the Word of God. Perhaps you should question why you attend the church you do, the answers lay within yourself I am sure.