will it be like 911 and soon forgotten. We have to develop a plan that assumes we have an even worse event. China does not need to be our source of meds. We need huge inventories of medical devices. We need a better way for students to become doctors, physician assistants, etc. We need a national emergency plan that citizens have some understanding of. God forbid if we are ever experience a dirty bomb in our country.
Will we learn from this or
- Thread starter jdbulldog
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Close The Borders, build the wall, screen/test ALL incoming International travelers, Document ALL UNDOCUMENTED....And last but not least, if we need it here ...make it here
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Are There are Americans still going to the Island of Granada to get an MD degree in 3years after 2 years undergrad? that is 6 years as opposed to 7. I know that was a thing several years ago.
Mexico is considering closing its border to stop Americans bringing coronavirus into its country as US case count passes 2,000
The conversation over closing the US-Mexico border is being driven by Mexican health officials who say they are considering shutting out Americans to keep coronavirus out of their country.
There are currently more than 1,900 cases of the virus in the US and it is spreading rapidly. Forty-two people have died from it.
By contrast in Mexico, there have only been 16 confirmed cases and no deaths.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ad-coronavirus.html?__twitter_impression=true
Americans will have to wean themselves off cheap Chinese goods. We can make it here in the good ol USA or keep buying cheap **** from China. The choice will soon be yours.
I'm gonna say that Mexico is probably a little low on their infection count right now. Ever seen Mexico City? It's BS and the political hacks spouting that nonsense know it.
They are too busy killing Americans with Fentanyl to worry about the Wuhan Virus.
I know Sen Rubio is trying to introduce legislation to bring the medical and pharmaceutical companies back to producing products in the US. I would assume tax breaks would be involved but if you consider this a national security issue, its appropriate. We should never let an enemy have that much power over us.
Rubio has been very vocal on his criticisms of China and the nature of our relationship for a while now.
I for one have never forgotten 911. Never will. It’s burned into my memory very deeply.
hoping this one is one I can forget...but, some major **** need to change. This won’t be the last Pandemic, and the next could be worse.
hoping this one is one I can forget...but, some major **** need to change. This won’t be the last Pandemic, and the next could be worse.
My sentiments, exactly. A friend of mine lost several hundred of his coworkers when the second tower fell. Absolutely awful.
The question I really want to know the answer to is why didn’t we cancel sports, school, church and everything else in 2009 over H1N1? I don’t understand why everyone is freaking out this time but no one gave a single 17 then.
I think to many are misunderstanding the reasons for all the cancellations and school closings. It’s not because this is some overtly deadly bug. Most people that get it will recover easily.
The problem is that it is many, many, many more times contagious than the flu and a lot of those older Americans who contract it will need hospitalization. There are currently only about 1 million hospital beds in a country of 330 million. If we continued to congregate in the thousands the virus has proven that it will spread very quickly. Most of those people will be fine. But it will send enough to the ER to overload an already overloaded system. If you’ve ever had to go to the ER in Tupelo and had to wait 2 hours to be seen then you know what I’m talking about. Once ER’s and hospitals become swamped what happens to the heart attack, stroke, and car wreck victims? Where do they go? How soon will they be seen? And in time to save THEIR lives?
That’s the sound reasoning behind most of these cancellations/postponements. Yes the same number of people will eventually get the virus whether we cancel or not. But canceling spreads the cases out over a longer period of time allowing hospitals to adequately deal with those that need hospitalization from the virus while also being able to handle normal emergency care. Sometimes it’s better to just rip off the bandaid all at once, but only if you’re prepared to handle what’s under said bandaid. The US is prepared to treat and hospital 500k-1,000,000 of those most severely afflicted with virus, but only if spread out over a month or two, not all once.
The threat isn’t that millions will die from this virus, it’s how many people that have other emergencies won’t get care in time because of the potentially full hospitals. Then when people feel helpless because they can’t get care for their loved ones they get desperate, that’s when social order begins to breakdown.
This may not be a popular opinion but it is the truth. If the cancellations have the desired effect and renders the virus manageable then this will seem like it was over hyped and overdone. But it will only seem that way because the virus and it’s collateral damage will have far fewer victims than it might have. And that’s the whole point.
A stitch in time saves nine.
The problem is that it is many, many, many more times contagious than the flu and a lot of those older Americans who contract it will need hospitalization. There are currently only about 1 million hospital beds in a country of 330 million. If we continued to congregate in the thousands the virus has proven that it will spread very quickly. Most of those people will be fine. But it will send enough to the ER to overload an already overloaded system. If you’ve ever had to go to the ER in Tupelo and had to wait 2 hours to be seen then you know what I’m talking about. Once ER’s and hospitals become swamped what happens to the heart attack, stroke, and car wreck victims? Where do they go? How soon will they be seen? And in time to save THEIR lives?
That’s the sound reasoning behind most of these cancellations/postponements. Yes the same number of people will eventually get the virus whether we cancel or not. But canceling spreads the cases out over a longer period of time allowing hospitals to adequately deal with those that need hospitalization from the virus while also being able to handle normal emergency care. Sometimes it’s better to just rip off the bandaid all at once, but only if you’re prepared to handle what’s under said bandaid. The US is prepared to treat and hospital 500k-1,000,000 of those most severely afflicted with virus, but only if spread out over a month or two, not all once.
The threat isn’t that millions will die from this virus, it’s how many people that have other emergencies won’t get care in time because of the potentially full hospitals. Then when people feel helpless because they can’t get care for their loved ones they get desperate, that’s when social order begins to breakdown.
This may not be a popular opinion but it is the truth. If the cancellations have the desired effect and renders the virus manageable then this will seem like it was over hyped and overdone. But it will only seem that way because the virus and it’s collateral damage will have far fewer victims than it might have. And that’s the whole point.
A stitch in time saves nine.
A lot of our hospitals gear up to handle something like this after each outbreak (sars, h1n1, etc) with pressure negative areas designed for handling a lot of people quickly, but after not being used for that purpose for a year or so, those areas are then retrofitted and repurposed. The special air handling equipment is chunked, and then new versions are bought and installed a few years later when the process repeats. Of course this is paid for by the emergency federal spending.
That’s a very fair question, and it’s hard to find an answer. This is one of the few things i could find,
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...pares-with-2009-s-h1n1-in-spread-and-reaction
This post should be pinned. Thank you. Your explanation is perfect, but those who don’t want a rational explanation and think everything is some kind of conspiracy will still ignore it.
Um...how has this almost totally gone unresponded to?
9/11 wasnt soon forgotten- it is continually referenced in daily life.
You do realize MSU played in the Never Forget Tribute Classic the last two years, right?
We are still in the longest war in our country's history which stemmed from 9/11.
The biggest lesson from this is to get any step in any supply chain that ends here OUT OF CHINA.
That still doesn’t answer my question.
I’m totally fine with closings/cancellations. I’m asking why didn’t this happen in 2009? No one gave a **** back then.
I’m totally fine with closings/cancellations. I’m asking why didn’t this happen in 2009? No one gave a **** back then.
I'm a bit of a gun nut. I hate it when people push gun control as a knee jerk reaction to a shooting. Gun control isn't going to stop all the shootings. Don't use a tragedy to push politics.
Same applies here. Do you think a closed boarder and documenting immigrants would have had ANY impact at all with this? It wouldn't. Not in the least.
And that's not even say anything regarding if we should or if we shouldn't close the boarders. I'm not saying that we should or shouldn't......I'm saying it doesn't have a damn thing to do with this.
Don't use serious, potentially tragic events to push politics
I'm lifting this from another thread to make it simple. It clearly answers your question...
Did we know that in 2009 when H1N1 was declared a pandemic and a national emergency?
I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m just trying to understand in the context of 2009, why nothing was cancelled when H1N1 was first declared a national emergency and a world pandemic.
I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m just trying to understand in the context of 2009, why nothing was cancelled when H1N1 was first declared a national emergency and a world pandemic.
I doubt anyone here can tell you specifically how the decision was made in 2009, but Raiderdawg makes it pretty clear how the viruses are different and why this one could be more dangerous and deadly. That's all I've got for you.
I think it wasn't responded to mostly bc it was such an asinine sentiment that most knew not to waste time or energy
I think it's as simple as recommendations from the CDC. They've had some numbers/estimates that they were keeping from the public for weeks. The NYT got hold of it yesterday, and the CDC was estimating that *IF* no action was taken, we could see up to 1.7M deaths in this country. I would guess that while they weren't letting the public know that information, they were telling it to Adam Silver, etc.
So while I don't know this, logic would seem to dictate that the worst case scenario in 2009 wasn't as dire, so the actions taken weren't as severe.
I'm admittedly just theorizing based on limited information.
At the time, some lightly-affected countries thought the pandemic classification was an over-reaction.
https://www.statnews.com/2019/06/11/h1n1-swine-flu-10-years-later/
and the elderly (normally the most susceptible to outbreaks) had immunity due to their exposure to the 1977 flu outbreak. Working at a college, there were plenty of H1N1-specific things we did that year.
I'm not sure why you're hung up on this mistaken notion that "nobody cared" about something that happened a decade ago. Maybe we (gasp) learned that more should have been done.
https://www.statnews.com/2019/06/11/h1n1-swine-flu-10-years-later/
and the elderly (normally the most susceptible to outbreaks) had immunity due to their exposure to the 1977 flu outbreak. Working at a college, there were plenty of H1N1-specific things we did that year.
I'm not sure why you're hung up on this mistaken notion that "nobody cared" about something that happened a decade ago. Maybe we (gasp) learned that more should have been done.
It's pretty obvious you're not looking for an "answer" to your question. Why not stop wasting people's time who are trying to answer it?
The "collective intelligence" of the public health services and medical community were not as great/developed then as they are now, so the worry was not as great.
In other words?
We know a hell of a lot more now than we knew then. The doctors, hospital administrators, APHA agents understand how bad things could actually get over the next few months. They have no vaccine and they know that. The virus transmits easily and they know that. This one kills old folks, and they know that. They are the ones in charge of protecting the public and they know that. March Madness is not worth killing 1.5 million folks, and they know that. They know all of these things better than they knew them 12 years ago, better than they knew them 8 months ago.
Let me put this in a way you might understand. Most medical professionals are coming to realize we are way up **** creek with a very poor paddle. Our poor paddle was fine during our last trip up **** creek, but it no longer is.
One word: Italy.
The stress on the healthcare system in Italy should give everyone pause. We need to take this seriously. Does it suck that sports got cancelled for a few weeks/possibly months? Yeah. But the public health officials here are trying to prevent large scale spread of the virus. In many ways, this reminds us that we should take public health more seriously anyway. Get your vacinnes. Keep them up to date. If you are sick, stay home. Wash your hands. I mean the flu spreads becuase so many don't hardly think about these things.
Some have mentioned how reliant we are on China. Some if this cant really be helped if they control the raw materials for many of the medicines. It sounds a lot easier than done. Do you think they will just give up their stranglehold on manufacturing goods? We do need to change our ways but it wont be so easy.
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