I think most of us expected to be a lot closer to both of those goals than we were at a minimum.
Will Sammons has a good article on Moorhead...
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I think most of us expected to be a lot closer to both of those goals than we were at a minimum.
Couple things -- three actually -- I edited my initial post, because the article actually said it was a Mississippi State "staffer" and not necessarily an assistant coach. I don't see any indication the staffer was "upset" by that, it is just a comment that some fans expectations were unreasonably high. There is no mention about how that staffer felt about those unreasonable expectations. And while JoMo definitely contributed to those high expectations - which he admits to and doesn't back away from - he is not the only reason fans had those expectations. Just look at this thread where everyone is claiming that on talent alone this teams should have won 10 games regardless of who the coach was. JoMo didn't put those ideas in anyone's head.
Yeah, my expectations had zero to do with Joe's comments. Cohen's comment of "offensive savant" effected me more than ring sizes, etc. I knew that just a competent offense would give us 9 wins, and a special coach might get us 10 or 11 wins. 7-6-3-0 = incompetence.
I'm sorry. Do I have to give a repeat history lesson every time some suggests Mullen going 10-3 with last year's team?
(Hell, Jo-Mo was 10-3 if we don't drop two easy passes).
But to those who pine for Mullen: He phoned it in every November since the 2012 season. His best November game was his last game against Bama and he went brain dead in the 4th quarter. Hell, I don't think he ever really wanted to beat Alabama.
And if it weren't for Dak heroics and an NCAA investigation, Freeze owned his sorry ***.
Dan was great for State. He gave us a much better program than we've ever had. But he was still a 17n loser when it came to playing the best in the league.
He got schooled by GA Tech for god's sake during our Number 1 ranked season. And does anybody remember how bad Ole Miss beat us that year? Anyone?
Dan would have ended last year's season no better than 8-5 and would have probably found a way to lose to Ole Miss yet again. Dan was never winning an SEC Championship at Starkville. He might have if he really wanted it, but he didn't. Dan wanted out of Starkville since 2012. Be grateful he came to us, but be just as grateful he's gone and move the hell on.
Jo-Mo may not end up being the answer, but I'm glad we've got him now and not Dan.
(Hell, Jo-Mo was 10-3 if we don't drop two easy passes).
But to those who pine for Mullen: He phoned it in every November since the 2012 season. His best November game was his last game against Bama and he went brain dead in the 4th quarter. Hell, I don't think he ever really wanted to beat Alabama.
And if it weren't for Dak heroics and an NCAA investigation, Freeze owned his sorry ***.
Dan was great for State. He gave us a much better program than we've ever had. But he was still a 17n loser when it came to playing the best in the league.
He got schooled by GA Tech for god's sake during our Number 1 ranked season. And does anybody remember how bad Ole Miss beat us that year? Anyone?
Dan would have ended last year's season no better than 8-5 and would have probably found a way to lose to Ole Miss yet again. Dan was never winning an SEC Championship at Starkville. He might have if he really wanted it, but he didn't. Dan wanted out of Starkville since 2012. Be grateful he came to us, but be just as grateful he's gone and move the hell on.
Jo-Mo may not end up being the answer, but I'm glad we've got him now and not Dan.
Lighten up, dude. I was being charitable. We seem to agree on the core argument. Besides, with our defense last year I doubt Dan would have lost 5. I suspect he'd have likely won all the ones we did + beaten UF and probably UK. I don't think we won any last year due to JoMo's offense vs what Dan would have done.
I do, however, still believe we will win more under Joe in the future than we would have under Dan, once Joe gets the guys that fit his scheme. This is assuming we stay at least really good defensively.
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I was not talking about Joe. For the 3rd time in this thread, I was talking about the assistant or staff member or whoever made the anonymous comment. Joe’s comments before the season make it silly for his staff to make these condescending remarks about fan expectations after the fact.
And this is yet another example of why State has the dumbest football fans in the SEC.If you can't understand why a new head coach would make those remarks vs what he and his staff thinks after seeing the team , let me just leave it at that and point to my first comment again.
Agreed. I just like to argue for the sake of arguing like the rest of yous guys in the Pack.
And I really hate the 17 out of the way Dan did not seem to have us ready to play UM after Freeze arrived. I get that they were cheating for recruits, but I really felt like he gave up, which likely had more to do with his desire to get out of Starkville.
And I really hate the 17 out of the way Dan did not seem to have us ready to play UM after Freeze arrived. I get that they were cheating for recruits, but I really felt like he gave up, which likely had more to do with his desire to get out of Starkville.
This is about the most meaningless stat, since it only considers games where both teams are ranked, not games where Mullen’s team played a ranked team while themselves being unranked.
Also, this is a dumb discussion all around because Mullen left State and was never going to be our coach last year. So who cares whether he would have done better or worse. The question should be between Moorhead and Pruitt (or someone like that).
I believe the stat is his record vs ranked teams at the time of the game regardless of MSU being ranked but definitely agree with you on the second part of your post.
Mullen got the nickname “Big game Dan” for a reason. What was most frustrating is that most of the big games were lost because his offense disappeared.
Those that think Mullen could recruit offensive talent are lunatics. He could and can develop QBs. His ability to do this within his system is masterful. Talent wise, we always had mediocre receivers, o linemen, and even QBs (minus Dak). Ironically, the most talented offensive position we had (tight end, 2 NFL guys) he wasted.
I believe if Mullen got the talent at these offensive positions he could win big. But he never was at State. He couldn’t or wouldn’t do it for whatever reason.
Those that think Mullen could recruit offensive talent are lunatics. He could and can develop QBs. His ability to do this within his system is masterful. Talent wise, we always had mediocre receivers, o linemen, and even QBs (minus Dak). Ironically, the most talented offensive position we had (tight end, 2 NFL guys) he wasted.
I believe if Mullen got the talent at these offensive positions he could win big. But he never was at State. He couldn’t or wouldn’t do it for whatever reason.
Pure ego and laziness is all that was. His ego told him he could take any 2-3 star that was good size and athlete and turn them into a 4* type player. The laziness was his basically refusing to even compete for the top players. He just conceded them to the bigger name schools. He kinda coached like that too vs the big coaches.
Here's the breakdown of how many players each team had drafted and UDFA in parenthesis...
Bama - 10 (5)
Ark - 3 (4)
Auburn - 6 (2)
Florida - 5 (2)
Georgia - 7 (5)
LSU - 3 (1)
Kentucky - 5 (4)
Mizzou - 2 (6)
OM - 6 (2)
State - 5 (6)
South Carolina - 3 (1)
Tenn - 0 (2)
aTm - 7 (3)
Vandy - 2 (2)
If you assign a point system like this...
8 pts - round 1
7 pts - round 2
6 pts - round 3
Down to 1 point for UDFA
This is your rankings:
1. Bama - 62
2. State - 40
3. Georgia - 36
4. OM - 33
5. Tie aTm and Kentucky - 32
7. Florida - 28
8. Auburn - 24
9. LSU - 21
10. Auburn - 16
11. Mizzou - 15
12. South Carolina - 14
13. Vandy - 12
14. Tenn - 2
He may also be the worst in terms of his overall record against ranked teams regardless of where MSU was ranked, but the stat I was thinking of is what ESPN widely published in 2017, and is matchups when both teams were ranked:
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/m...n-mullen-worst-record-vs-ap-ranked-team-time/
This record ignores, for example, the 2014 win over LSU when State was not ranked.
We had 3 first rounders on defense. We were #1 in the nation for defense. Our defensive talent was not overblown.
Offensive talent on the other hand was the problem. Add that to the offense we were trying to run - you get 8-5.
And I'm still unsure if Moorhead will win here. I don't know if we will be successful enough to get a roster that fits his system in time to see it to fruition.
Offensive talent on the other hand was the problem. Add that to the offense we were trying to run - you get 8-5.
And I'm still unsure if Moorhead will win here. I don't know if we will be successful enough to get a roster that fits his system in time to see it to fruition.
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Mullen would have beaten UF. I have my doubts about him beating UK, but that one was possible. He would have lost the Egg Bowl, though, and that would have sucked. I don't care how terrible UM was last year, anytime Mullen had 8 or more wins going into the Egg Bowl, he lost. He would have ruined yet another good season.
but we did have a guy to get drafted on the OL, a TE last year, an OL last year, and qb that's been a 3 yr starter in the NFL. which i don't think we have ever had. So we have had offensive talent there. it's not like it's not been existent on the team. I think Aeris could have been drafted running the same offense we ran the year before. I also think Calhoun should have been drafted and could have running a better offense. The talent has been there and is there if we run the right things.
Some players were sort of set in their ways and weren't adapting to the changes?
Hmmmm interdasting...
Fitz, maybe?
Hmmmm interdasting...
Fitz, maybe?
We did not hire Moorhead to run Mullen's offense. We hired him to run his offense.
You seem to forget that we had to suffer through Mullen running his offense without the right pieces as well, especially in 2009 and 2011. He was lucky that he had Chris Relf on the roster to get him through 2010. There was a whole lot of frustration in those years too because Mullen did not adapt. Further, Croom could never adapt to Omarr Conner either. Seems it is fairly difficult to wholly adapt.
People like you have short memories.
At the end of the day it is all about the quarterback. Mullen's offense did not truly hum until the end of Dak's third year in the system, Mullen's 7th year. I would imagine we will see the same trajectory, Stevens will play the role of Relf for one year, then we will be back to Thompson for a year before Moorhead finally has his guy Shrader developed enough to really play quarterback.
no we hired him to run a productive offense that didn't look like a discombobulated mess.
no mullen did adapt. you must forget all of the counters and full back sets that he ran while dixon was here. Chris Relf was a nobody that he developed into a Gator Bowl MVP. So you too must have a really short memory. Mullen had a knack for taking what he had, building, and developing it. He had a plan for taking athletes and winning games.
Dan did run a different offense with Tyler. He ran a much more finesse passing approach with him than we did with Relf, Dak, or Fitz. Hell Dak's senior year style of offense looks completely different than what he ran his Junior year. It was a lot more pass based. Mullen tried to run that Nick's first year and wasn't as successful. He reverted back the next year with him and ran more of the Relf type offense and was way more succesful.
You have to adapt and find what your players do best.
I don't want a coach that's too wrapped up in his system that would rather go down with his system rather than win.
no mullen did adapt. you must forget all of the counters and full back sets that he ran while dixon was here. Chris Relf was a nobody that he developed into a Gator Bowl MVP. So you too must have a really short memory. Mullen had a knack for taking what he had, building, and developing it. He had a plan for taking athletes and winning games.
Dan did run a different offense with Tyler. He ran a much more finesse passing approach with him than we did with Relf, Dak, or Fitz. Hell Dak's senior year style of offense looks completely different than what he ran his Junior year. It was a lot more pass based. Mullen tried to run that Nick's first year and wasn't as successful. He reverted back the next year with him and ran more of the Relf type offense and was way more succesful.
You have to adapt and find what your players do best.
I don't want a coach that's too wrapped up in his system that would rather go down with his system rather than win.
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I don’t know why anyone thinks he beats UK on the road with us when he lost to them at home with a team that ended up being better than any squad he had in 9 years at MSU.
You do know we beat them 45-7 last year...right? You do know Dastardly Dan was 8-1 vs UK while at MSU...right? You do know the one loss he had to them was the 2-point loss on a last-second 51-yard field goal...right?
But why should anyone think he beats UK this year, having the best defense in the nation?***
Kentucky was really good at the time we played them last year and they thoroughly beat our *** especially in the 4th quarter. Mullen probably keeps us in the game better and doesn't have issues with the rain or discipline/penalty but I just don't think he'd of been able to change the outcome of that game alone. Fitz woulda also had to play significantly better than he did and maybe he does in Mullen's system but Mullen quit on Fitz and quit on us so 17 him.
If Thompson transfers out because we bring a better QB in for this fall, I'm more than OK with that. I'm also OK with Thompson being our starter if we somehow don't land Stevens.
He lost to them at home THIS year with the #7 team in the country. And again, that loss was with a team that was better than ANY team he ever fielded at MSU. That tells me that maybe, just maybe, UK was historically good this season, and what the score was last year or any other year vs. them is totally irrelevant. He wasn’t taking us up there and beating them in Lexington. Period.
And also, we wouldn’t have the best defense in the nation if he stayed, because we’d still have Grantham who gave up 30+ to half of our SEC opponents...while having all the same talent that Shoop had this season.
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We were 2 plays away from 10-3. Of course we had enough talent to win more games. I can’t believe people think otherwise.
That is nothing more than your opinion. Period.
The UK game was closer than the final score showed. For you to say Mullen could not have taken this year's team to UK...the team he beat 45-7 last year, and beat them again is just ludicrous. He may not have, as anything is possible, but to say he wasnt going to be able to do it is just silly.
BTW, we were a more talented team than UF this year. Rankings don't tell the whole story. 8-1 vs UK while at MSU + 45-7 last year makes my suggestion far more likely than yours, IMO. We already know UK couldn't stop us offensively last year with essentially the same teams. This year we were hampered by needing to learn a new system.
And damn you for making me defend that jackass.
The UK game was closer than the final score showed. For you to say Mullen could not have taken this year's team to UK...the team he beat 45-7 last year, and beat them again is just ludicrous. He may not have, as anything is possible, but to say he wasnt going to be able to do it is just silly.
BTW, we were a more talented team than UF this year. Rankings don't tell the whole story. 8-1 vs UK while at MSU + 45-7 last year makes my suggestion far more likely than yours, IMO. We already know UK couldn't stop us offensively last year with essentially the same teams. This year we were hampered by needing to learn a new system.
And damn you for making me defend that jackass.
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45-7 means nothing. I have no idea why you continue bringing that up. UK also lost at home to OM in 2017 (with their first string quarterback). They were a totally different team in 2018, especially on defense. Nobody except UGA broke 30 points on them all season, and they only scored 34 with their 4* and 5* talent all over the field on offense. You really think our offensive talent was even close to that level? Because it would have to be for us to have scored enough to win.
One score game midway through the 4th Q despite us playing undisciplined and still trying to learn Joe's system. So yes, I do think it highly likely we would have rolled into UK with our great defense and done similar things to them we did vs them the year prior. And without the late t/o, we would not have needed half the points we got last year to beat them this year.
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