Some people gush over him, and he seems to like the university with a true passion and he has given us stability, but our academics have fallen like a rock. Every month it’s a new poll with MSU dead last in academics and falling. We lost our research designation under Keemun only to gain it back a year or two later, but not much seems to be done to help rescue our reputation as an institute of higher learning. What am I missing? Explain to me why he is useful in any way other than showing his glowing marshmallow face with rosie cheeks on every university promo we have had over the last 5 or 6 years. It seems to me that someone responsible for such a decline is an enemy to the university, not some hero. Perhaps I am ignorant, so please enlighten me.
Why is Keenum so great?
- Thread starter Shamoan
- Start date
His is just another false narrative spread by fans, not unlike the whole "intense bass turd" moniker given Cohen.
Real question: Where are you seeing our academics are falling? I know this is more about recruitment but I’ve seen where the average ACT score for incoming students has increased under him. I too have seen threads about our academics falling but haven’t seen any data supporting that. I graduated in ‘16 and left very please with the direction the university was headed.
I don’t think we want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Keenum needs a fire lit under his *** to get on top of whatever the 17 it is that bastard is doing; but Keenum himself is about as good of an essentially worthless figurehead (which is what a university president is) as we could have. His political instincts are really good. He provides value as a quasi-politician for the university as a whole moreso than what he brings to the table for athletics. For me, I still have faith in Keenum but I have lost a lot of faith in bastard. And Moorhead can go to hell. Yankee sonuvabitch.
He’s not great at all. Not even good. Our research standing in the nation is exponentially worse now than before he came to State. As is our academic standing. Its really sad.
All I’m learning is most people on this board have no idea what a University president does. And that is raise money and Keenum is really good at raising money.
Keenum has done a great job. Idk where you see the academics falling but the University is in a golden age and is dominating recruitment of the State of Mississippi. Enrollment is up, we get the best of Mississippi more times than now and are starting to get strong footholds in Memphis, Bham and Nashville. We are probably the third most attended SEC school out of Bham.
We were also the only university in Mississippi to see enrollment growth last year.
Anyone who wants to fire Keenum is either ignorant to what his job is and how he is doing. Or ignorant to how well the University is doing in everything besides football right now.
We can never grow our academic ranking as long as we are required to take students with a 17 on the ACT, because entering ACT/SAT scores is 80% of academic rankings.
Reputation is what really matters and our engineering and vet schools have some of the best reputations in the country. Even through all the chaos in the Aerospace department a few years back it kept its stellar reputation.
Keenum is an amazing president especially when compared the the mess up the road at Ole Miss. He is uber politically connected and uses that to MSU’s advantage. He has done the miracle of not pissing off the students, faculty or alumni for a decade and that is an incredible feet.
Keenum has done a great job. Idk where you see the academics falling but the University is in a golden age and is dominating recruitment of the State of Mississippi. Enrollment is up, we get the best of Mississippi more times than now and are starting to get strong footholds in Memphis, Bham and Nashville. We are probably the third most attended SEC school out of Bham.
We were also the only university in Mississippi to see enrollment growth last year.
Anyone who wants to fire Keenum is either ignorant to what his job is and how he is doing. Or ignorant to how well the University is doing in everything besides football right now.
We can never grow our academic ranking as long as we are required to take students with a 17 on the ACT, because entering ACT/SAT scores is 80% of academic rankings.
Reputation is what really matters and our engineering and vet schools have some of the best reputations in the country. Even through all the chaos in the Aerospace department a few years back it kept its stellar reputation.
Keenum is an amazing president especially when compared the the mess up the road at Ole Miss. He is uber politically connected and uses that to MSU’s advantage. He has done the miracle of not pissing off the students, faculty or alumni for a decade and that is an incredible feet.
I think political access is Keenum's strongest asset, but he absolutely needs to demonstrate to me that he wants and plans to improve our academic standing, and not just increase enrollment before I can say I'm happy with his work.
Keenum has been ok, but he lazily hired someone to lead the $100+MM athletic department whose primary “qualification” was his status as an alumni. Cohen should not have been hired as AD until he had experience in such a position at a smaller school just like his coaching career. Of course, hiring an AD and football coach might not have been necessary if had Keenum done more to keep Strick, Byrne, and Mullen. Keenum has overseen the academic reputation deteriorate substantially. Keenum has been President for almost 11 years, so let’s thank him for his service and move on.
But Byrne, Stricklin, and Mullen all left for higher profile jobs. It’s not like they left to go to Middle Tennessee.
"Great" is inaccurate, but "stable" is on target. it is important to note that his DC resume and connections have served MSU very well. As for academics, all I can say is that the VP who acquired the R1 research designation is now the Provost. I believe this move will result in academic resurgence.
As for the role of President, his job is to primarily raise money and surround himself with the appropriate C-Suite leaders to carry out the initiatives to carry out the mission of a public land-grant institution. On the whole, I believe Keenum has done a commendable job and I think his leadership comparable to that of the Zacharias era.
Everyone in this thread except Rayburn, DCD and Binglecocktail are Grade A idiots.
Keenum probably needs to stay out of athletics, I would agree, outside of hiring an AD. That may happen pretty soon or may not, but that’s the extent of it.
The problem here is the football program and some other minor facets of the AD. It’s not a University problem.
Idiots.
Keenum probably needs to stay out of athletics, I would agree, outside of hiring an AD. That may happen pretty soon or may not, but that’s the extent of it.
The problem here is the football program and some other minor facets of the AD. It’s not a University problem.
Idiots.
It’s a collection of things...the ability to fundraise and fund research and on top of that pay high quality professors to come and stay. One example being CAVS, the two leaders in the past few years got hired away. Two went to Bama, who were bama grads and got significant pay raises which we couldn’t compete with, and another went to Liberty to be dean of engineering.
Also, when you say academics are you referring to research or classroom because to say our academics is bad is a very broad statement.
That job is a nice gig which means a ton of people who will never care about state or work hard
for state but want to make half a mill annually to go to cocktail parties will line up for it.
Look at Auburns recent debacle. The prezs wife spent $10 mill redoing the presidents house
for state but want to make half a mill annually to go to cocktail parties will line up for it.
Look at Auburns recent debacle. The prezs wife spent $10 mill redoing the presidents house
At least you didn't exclude yourself from the idiot category. goat holder is gonna goat holder
i refer to both. so we need to blame the person in charge of CAVS and fundraising for research? i thought it was keenums job to raise money as a couple have said in this thread already. so if we have fundraising shortcomings in research, would that not be on keenum? its the decline of all academic programs across the board. are we top in anything anymore? when my dad got his engineering degree in the 60's, MSU engineering was 3rd only to MIT and Georgia Tech per those that hired him as a subcontractor for NASA (brown engineering). obviously not keenums fault there, but why have our programs degraded so steadily? what about our vet school and architecture programs....where do they rank nationally among P5 and G5 schools as compared to 10 years ago? it feels like nobody cares about our academics because we have been sliding for a while. im not asking to be the best, but we have to start rebuilding our reputation. i dont dispute that our quality of students have improved, but what is going on and who specifically is accountable?
If you want to see where we have fallen, look at the University ratings. US News, Princeton, etc. We have gone from the 120 and rising under Keenum to falling into the 180s in World News. That is damning. Are these biased? Yes to an extent, but are also a usable metric since their model does not change. We are not competitive in salaries which means turnover of our best being replaced by new grads with no research history. There is no reason we cant compete on salaries with all the funds we raise, but we dont. The buck stops with him and he is more interested in playing political games than making us a top 100 institution.
Agreed on most parts.
Just based on what I’ve observed is that Keenum also seems to be appreciated generally by faculty and staff at MSU which is kind of amazing to me considering Keenum’s background as a GOP staffer/official when considering that higher ed folks tend to be more friendly to the Democrats.
At the same time though, I know folks who’ve left MSU for greener pastures economically as well as a better lifestyle. The brain drain ain’t affecting just recent college grads but also folks who earned degrees from in-state institutions several years ago. I think the feeling I get is that he could try to do more— but I don’t really know what...
I think IB has done a slightly better job— though I believe we’re in agreement about November 2020 as Moorhead has done at least the minimum for a third year. I’m not all that enthused about him either now even though he was a great hire on paper.
Just based on what I’ve observed is that Keenum also seems to be appreciated generally by faculty and staff at MSU which is kind of amazing to me considering Keenum’s background as a GOP staffer/official when considering that higher ed folks tend to be more friendly to the Democrats.
At the same time though, I know folks who’ve left MSU for greener pastures economically as well as a better lifestyle. The brain drain ain’t affecting just recent college grads but also folks who earned degrees from in-state institutions several years ago. I think the feeling I get is that he could try to do more— but I don’t really know what...
I think IB has done a slightly better job— though I believe we’re in agreement about November 2020 as Moorhead has done at least the minimum for a third year. I’m not all that enthused about him either now even though he was a great hire on paper.
Exactly what has Cohen done so bad besides piss you off abt a baseball coaching search that turned out great?
i hesitate to make this comparison, but nobody knows the limitations of a school in mississippi like another school in mississippi, same plight, entrance standards, conference, etc. here is where we stack up according to US news:
US News:
#162 University of Mississippi
#211 Mississippi State University
WSJ/World University Ranking for US Schools:
#T311 University of Mississippi
#401 - 500 Mississippi State University
pointing at the brain drain only goes so far. this is a really bad trend.
US News:
#162 University of Mississippi
#211 Mississippi State University
WSJ/World University Ranking for US Schools:
#T311 University of Mississippi
#401 - 500 Mississippi State University
pointing at the brain drain only goes so far. this is a really bad trend.
It has been a steady decline. He is our CEO and we are in serious danger of falling into categories held by poorly funded directional schools. He needs to be held accountable and replaced.
Perhaps an indirect cause your points make (which are good ones) is the educational pipeline within Mississippi, which starts at K-12. Mississippi's primary challenges start there and pass through the pipeline to the JUCO and IHL levels. I would suggest that part of the current situation stems from resource allocation and prioritizing education, which has historically been a lightning rod for political and legislative discussions.
I do offer one glimmer of hope: On the matter of "brain drain" and those who have left for "greener pastures:" There will be those who have connections and an affinity for Mississippi which could result in their return to Mississippi to help revitalize it by leveraging their experiences in other ecosystems.
I think Mississippi is a great state that has tremendous upside potential. If I had the opportunity to return to my home, I certainly would. However, like the animal that I am, I tend to migrate to "where the food is."
I do offer one glimmer of hope: On the matter of "brain drain" and those who have left for "greener pastures:" There will be those who have connections and an affinity for Mississippi which could result in their return to Mississippi to help revitalize it by leveraging their experiences in other ecosystems.
I think Mississippi is a great state that has tremendous upside potential. If I had the opportunity to return to my home, I certainly would. However, like the animal that I am, I tend to migrate to "where the food is."
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First, let me preface my response by saying that I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anything you're pointing out.
Research and academics are driven by the faculty. Faculty are essentially independent contractors of which there are over 1,000 at MSU. Also, pure 100% research faculty who desire tenure have a more difficult time achieving tenure because they will fail to meet the academic metrics on the tenure and promotion process.
While on the surface this looks like a fairly easy problem to remedy, it is important understand the level of power the faculty wield. They are are not simply hourly workers that you can order around and replace at will (Foglesong found this out the hard way). HOWEVER, it is the administration's job to make the ground fertile for faculty to grow their academic and research programs.
I'll offer up a couple more points for consideration:
* Georgia Tech was smart early on and got involved in DoD right after WWII. The rest are catching up....still
* CVM is one the youngest Vet Med schools in the country even though it is ~40 years old
* Architecture ranks in the top 25% in the US
I think its important to note that while certain snapshots may not be terribly appealing, MSU is trending upward on the whole - despite the significant obstacles it faces (another thread unto itself)
Research and academics are driven by the faculty. Faculty are essentially independent contractors of which there are over 1,000 at MSU. Also, pure 100% research faculty who desire tenure have a more difficult time achieving tenure because they will fail to meet the academic metrics on the tenure and promotion process.
While on the surface this looks like a fairly easy problem to remedy, it is important understand the level of power the faculty wield. They are are not simply hourly workers that you can order around and replace at will (Foglesong found this out the hard way). HOWEVER, it is the administration's job to make the ground fertile for faculty to grow their academic and research programs.
I'll offer up a couple more points for consideration:
* Georgia Tech was smart early on and got involved in DoD right after WWII. The rest are catching up....still
* CVM is one the youngest Vet Med schools in the country even though it is ~40 years old
* Architecture ranks in the top 25% in the US
I think its important to note that while certain snapshots may not be terribly appealing, MSU is trending upward on the whole - despite the significant obstacles it faces (another thread unto itself)
He could refuse all research money , drop enrollment, fire Cohen, Moorhead and get beer sales in the football stadium and the OP would think he was a genius.
It seems message boards, and a good deal of society can put up with a mountain of ******** as long as you cater to their selfish needs.
You have to establish your premise is true beyond seeing polls. So you first. Be specific where we have fallen in academics and by what measurement.
Some of the problems might have to do with the philosophy that everyone should get a college degree. The philosophy that education is a right and not a privilege. The more students you allow into college, the more you degrade a college degree and must drop standards. But funneling kids through school provides so much revenue that it's hard for those in charge to tighten standards.
I've never been impressed with Keenum nor thought he was so great. The last president of MSU that I've really liked was Dr. Zacharius. I don't think we need a president who is an alumnus, especially with all his degrees from the university.
We are a top 100 university when it comes to NSF rankings for research activity, which is measured by the amount expended on research activity. We are top 15 in agriculture, top 50 in engineering and top 100 in social sciences. This isn’t a poll and opinion of higher ed elites like US News and WSJ, this is actual activity. Overall we are one of the very few schools in the top 100 without a medical school.
The polls of US News and WSJ do not accurately reflect what is really going on at MSU. I do agree we should try our best to rectify it, and know that Keenum and the new Provost are working to do that. However, it’s hard to do that when state support continues to decline. The reason MSU has had to grow enrollment, raise tuition and raise funds is to try and keep up on salaries, but when other schools are getting good state support along with the other three, it keeps us behind the 8 ball. Also, this generation of faculty isn’t as committed to one place as those prior, and they are much more mobile and willing to change jobs. Makes it challenging when Florida comes and offers to double the salary. Oh yea, the state of Florida gives UF just over $9k per student while the state of Mississippi gives MSU just at $4k, maybe a little lower.
As one poster mentioned there are several obstacles MSU faces, but Mark Keenum’s leadership isn’t one.
The polls of US News and WSJ do not accurately reflect what is really going on at MSU. I do agree we should try our best to rectify it, and know that Keenum and the new Provost are working to do that. However, it’s hard to do that when state support continues to decline. The reason MSU has had to grow enrollment, raise tuition and raise funds is to try and keep up on salaries, but when other schools are getting good state support along with the other three, it keeps us behind the 8 ball. Also, this generation of faculty isn’t as committed to one place as those prior, and they are much more mobile and willing to change jobs. Makes it challenging when Florida comes and offers to double the salary. Oh yea, the state of Florida gives UF just over $9k per student while the state of Mississippi gives MSU just at $4k, maybe a little lower.
As one poster mentioned there are several obstacles MSU faces, but Mark Keenum’s leadership isn’t one.
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