1st downs for below average opposing offenses? Why does Chins instructions always leave someone wide open?
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Why is 3rd and long and 4th and long automatic
- Thread starter WestCoastCornhusker2
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Seems on those downs we routinely have a linebacker trying to stop a team’s #1 receiver.
Because this team is of poor morale. They have no killer instinct on defense. There are more players out there going through the motions than players who want to win every down, every play.
I don't think we fire this coordinator yet. I agree with many that we need some continuity. However, I think talent-wise we're not built for the 3-4 and I also don't understand why we can't have a nickel back out there, unless we're just an empty cupboard.
This team sucks. So far, our coaches have let us down. It's nice to see our offense put up points at home, to a team void of defense but we still lost the game. We get killed by teams with a pulse. We can't beat even mediocre teams. We can't get a yard when we need it. And, like you pointed out, we can't get off the field even when we should be able to.
I believe the apologists, I do think we have major talent issues. I also believe we have major coaching issues. Combine that, we have a team that might not win a game to finish the year. To those of you that think Maryland and Purdue are wins, I really don't think you understand how much disappointment you're setting yourself up for. WE could win. We could def lose too
I don't think we fire this coordinator yet. I agree with many that we need some continuity. However, I think talent-wise we're not built for the 3-4 and I also don't understand why we can't have a nickel back out there, unless we're just an empty cupboard.
This team sucks. So far, our coaches have let us down. It's nice to see our offense put up points at home, to a team void of defense but we still lost the game. We get killed by teams with a pulse. We can't beat even mediocre teams. We can't get a yard when we need it. And, like you pointed out, we can't get off the field even when we should be able to.
I believe the apologists, I do think we have major talent issues. I also believe we have major coaching issues. Combine that, we have a team that might not win a game to finish the year. To those of you that think Maryland and Purdue are wins, I really don't think you understand how much disappointment you're setting yourself up for. WE could win. We could def lose too
They will run good base stuff on first and second down and then they try to get cute on EVERY third down and it NEVER works
Combination of mediocre talent and a pretty bad defensive coordinator.
If it ain’t working early or the opposing OC makes adjustments the defense is in trouble because Chinander can’t stop the bleeding.
As far as the lack of talent goes, a good coordinator will recognize that certain schemes cannot be run with certain groups of players. They also should have the ability to simplify the schemes for the time being. If you are playing young guys, I understand letting the young guys take their lumps but most of our problems on defense are coming from the older guys struggling to work within our scheme.
We heard Minnesota say it directly and I’m sure Indiana must have had the same feeling. They know certain tendencies/alignments and they take advantage of them. That’s the only explanation for guys WIDE OPEN when a team needs 3 yards and the receiver gets 5 before someone is within 3 yards of him.
THAT is not talent. That is poor alignment or scheme.
THAT is not talent. That is poor alignment or scheme.
The IU QB even said something to the effect of: the film looked exactly like what we saw on the field.
So I'm sure they called a play, he expected a coverage, saw the coverage and threw to the hole.
Eh, it doesn't matter The defense is bad and this year is a flush in the toilet.
So I'm sure they called a play, he expected a coverage, saw the coverage and threw to the hole.
Eh, it doesn't matter The defense is bad and this year is a flush in the toilet.
I don't love how we stay in our base defense on those third and long situations so much. I know that teams like Iowa and Wisconsin have success with it and that no huddles can limit how much you can sub, but we have let slot receivers kill us the last 2+ years. We do play some Nickel with JoJo, but I had thought we had moved toward playing more DIME on third and long against these spread teams when we moved Bootle inside to cover the slot against NW, but that was no where to be found Saturday.
Yeah, Doman is more like a hybrid OLB to me than a nickelback. I do like your idea of moving Bootle inside. It doesn't matter. To me, it looks like they're saving the roster till next year because it really is so depleted (keeping people redshirts, playing ineffective upperclassmen, etc)
The longer it goes this is the only thing I can keep coming back to. They still have too many guys with a loser's mentality instead of a killer's mentality. Things get tough and you got guys going, "Man this is really hard, I sure hope we can stop em, we're in big trouble if we don't, I'm tired..."
And they don't have dudes yet who can take their job away for being soft like that.
This team, if they just make an AVERAGE play in so many moments, they're many wins better. 3rd and 20, 4th and 7, the averages say most teams don't convert that. Be average and you're off the field. And instead they're panicky and awful.
I have a question.. If the older players are so bad and their attitudes are terrible is it not a bad thing to keep playing them as that attitude then trickles down to the younger players one would think. It then becomes harder in the future to instill a new attitude. Losing becomes okay and that is the way it continues going forward.
I think it is a case of a defensive coordinator that doesn’t know how to incorporate the players he has into the schemes he wants to run.
The 3 DL playing are big and strong but no athleticism whatsoever. Zero success with OLB off the edge. Somehow our DL is bad even against the run. Our LBs are coached badly.
I think you hit the nail on the head. One side will scream "see, we don't have enough talent". And the other, "see, they can't coach". Half our roster (upperclassmen) was recruited for a different defense and don't really fit and Chin doesn't know how to use their strengths. The Davis twins, as an example, would be terrific 4-3 DT's. Changing schemes is tough, Pelini had a better transition because, not only did he keep the defense in tact, he didn't change the defense that much (and had a boatload more talent to work with). Changing offenses was also tough, a pretty big overhaul all around, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for the offense. The defense, not so sure.
Bingo
i was at that game
we lined up , at what appeared to be 10-15 yards off the receiver that caught the ball for a first down
he needed 8 if i remember
It'll be interesting to see how many young players are factored into games moving forward now. Obviously the coaches are trying to preserve the 4 game redshirt deal and weighing the pros and cons of playing kids that may not be physically ready yet. Injuries and poor coaching on D hasn't helped either. Pretty much a mess right now.
something just doesn't seem right, i guess players betting against us is out of the question?
It's probably 1 of 3 things:
So, dumb players, or dumb coaches, or both, or players betting against?
Pelini's defensive scheme was very different from Cosgrove's. They both lined up in a 4-3, but the similarities ended there.
Yes and no.. They both also used a read and react, 2-gap system up front. So recruiting and utilizing personnel didn't really change.
Why are so many people responding to a guy who put "somesome" in his question? Argh I just did too...da fu
Negative plays, penalties use your brain for once. Asian girls?How are there any 4th-and-longs if 3rd-and-longs are so automatic?
I have to agree with the too cute arguments. We are often trying to do this kind of stuff, when it shouldn't really be necessary.
I don't know about you guys, but when you start doing all kinds of trickery, it just says to me that you can't beat them straight up Mano A Mano.
Anyway, that's what I get out of it.
The next question is why aren't we winning those battles?
PS: Traditional asian girls are so much better than the feminists we have created in the US.
I don't know about you guys, but when you start doing all kinds of trickery, it just says to me that you can't beat them straight up Mano A Mano.
Anyway, that's what I get out of it.
The next question is why aren't we winning those battles?
PS: Traditional asian girls are so much better than the feminists we have created in the US.
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It bothers me as much as anything in football when a player doesn't play with a sense of urgency on 3rd downs, no matter if it's defense or offense. I hate seeing players make a mistake on critical plays and then walk off the field like it was no big deal. Like some other posters said, I think we have players that are missing that killer instinct.
and yet no one will entertain the possibility that the game is rigged by play calling. This is the kind of stuff I’m talking about. Obvious head scratchers that give away games.
Maybe a better question is how is that we so often get teams in 3rd and long? We are obviously doing something right. Is it that we have decent coaching on 1st and 2nd downs and then "just ok" coaching on 3rd downs? Maybe our players are bought on 1st and 2nd downs but then are thinking more about hoodies on 3rd down?
In my own admittedly limited view, I believe the answer is that we stay in a base defense with limited coverage options because we don't have a lot of other choices to put in when we can't generate a pass rush and do so poorly vs. the run otherwise.
In my own admittedly limited view, I believe the answer is that we stay in a base defense with limited coverage options because we don't have a lot of other choices to put in when we can't generate a pass rush and do so poorly vs. the run otherwise.
This ^^
I will also add that our players haven't grasped our schemes yet. Our latest teams remind me a lot of Callahan's '07 team where there is no pass rush or intelligence to get the job done. I'd also say the biggest flaw we have is we don't have a killer mentality. 3rd and 4th downs are the most critical downs and that's when you see who really wants it and who doesn't. I do believe we try, I haven't seen lazyness from a Frost team. We just don't have the smarts and that killer "refuse to lose" instinct.