Why do people say we don't have talent?

[5049]

We have draft picks all over this roster

If I remember correctly people said the 2013 team wasn't talented either, until they were all playing in the MLB

The young lineup has grown up, the older pitching staff has weathered injury and have a ton of experience, I don't see why we can't make a run

Pilkington, France, Small, Neff, Billingsley, Hatcher, Allen, Skelton, Stovall, Mangum, Anderson were all drafted at some point or another, and that doesn't include McNamee

To take it further, you could say our coaching staff had a lot to do with developing Pilkington, France, Small, Neff and Billingsley into draft picks on the pitching side, so how exactly is Henderson not a good coach??

All that, and take into account Kentucky's current draft picks, plus how Henderson was always known as a recruiter, he obviously relates to these guys, and has a couple of COY awards......and....uh

We have our coach

 

[preacher_dawg]

Because we are Mississippi State. They tend to say that about all of our teams.

 

[LawDawg97]

I haven’t heard we have no talent. Some people just say silly things

“I see no way we win tonight, I think we'll probably get hammered pretty well

I've enjoyed the ride but Omaha, I think, was a little much to ask”
- you yesterday

 

[msstate7]

Henderson is old, thus uncool it seems in a large percentage of our fans' eyes. Had Gautreau been named the interim and the results this year were exactly the same, everyone would be pressuring Cohen into pulling the interim title.

 

[Philly Dawg]

We have some talent but a lot of it is young with their best days in front of them. We don’t have a great pitching staff compared to most of the teams in Omaha. Look at Vandy’s pitching staff; every guy that came in was throwing in the 90’s with over a strikeout per inning.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Because they're not going to Omaha.

 

[msstate7]

We have some talent but a lot of it is young with their best days in front of them. We don’t have a great pitching staff compared to most of the teams in Omaha. Look at Vandy’s pitching staff; every guy that came in was throwing in the 90’s with over a strikeout per inning.

On the season, vandy had 560 k in 540 ip (9.3 k9). We have 593 k in 579.2 (9.2 k9)

 

[5049]

“I see no way we win tonight, I think we'll probably get hammered pretty well

I've enjoyed the ride but Omaha, I think, was a little much to ask”
- you yesterday

Me and pretty much everybody else in the country, if they were picking honestly

 

[WrapItDog]

Those ImprobaBulldogs

Here’s a recap of the absolute crazy things the Mississippi State Bulldogs Have Overcome in 2018:

• Swept by USM in the first weekend of the year.
• Canned their head coach after allegations of impropriety.
• Played their first 11 games on the road.
• Swept the Houston College Classic (allowing only 4 runs total in 3 games).
• Swept by Vanderbilt in Starkville.
• Began the SEC schedule 2-7 – scoring 1 or less in 5 of those games.
• Series win over #3 Ole Miss.
• Ace Konnor Pilkington got the opening-win over Ole Miss on April 7. And hasn’t won a game since. Pilkington has just 2 wins in 17 starts.
• Series sweep over #3 Arkansas.
• Won the Governor’s Cup.
• Swept #1 Florida.
• Won last 4 SEC games to get to .500 in the league.
• Finished the regular season 9-1 vs top 5 RPI teams.
• Gave up 20 runs in regional opener – first time in 9 years to do so.
• Facing elimination and down to their last strike, hit a walk-off HR to beat national-seed FSU.
• Revenged the 20-10 disaster by beating OU twice to win the regional.
• In first game of Super Regional, hit walk-off HR to get within a game of Omaha.
• In 2nd game of Super, give up a walk-off HR to tie the series up.
• In final game, score 3 runs in T9 to take a commanding lead. Then give up 3 in B9.
• In the 11th, score 4 runs to win it and head to Omaha.

This isn’t the best Bulldog team of all time but perhaps the most memorable one. State fans will savor this season for years to come. This team – led by Elijah MacNamee, Rowdey Jordan, and Jake Mangum – is college baseball’s ultimate Cinderella story.

 

[engie]

Henderson is old, thus uncool it seems in a large percentage of our fans' eyes. Had Gautreau been named the interim and the results this year were exactly the same, everyone would be pressuring Cohen into pulling the interim title.

Gautreau is unproven with what appears to be a very high ceiling. Henderson is extremely proven. Everyone knows exactly what he is. The fact that he shared a state with, for most of his tenure, a lesser Louisville program in mid major conferences and was thoroughly dominated should scare the heck out of people. Hiring him off the emotion of this one run ~= the elite 8 midmajor coach the sec fawned over and hired repeatedly to the detriment of the conference in basketball.

 

[msstate7]

Gautreau is unproven with what appears to be a very high ceiling. Henderson is extremely proven. Everyone knows exactly what he is. The fact that he shared a state with, for most of his tenure, a lesser Louisville program in mid major conferences and was thoroughly dominated should scare the heck out of people. Hiring him off the emotion of this one run ~= the elite 8 midmajor coach the sec fawned over and hired repeatedly to the detriment of the conference in basketball.

Henderson in his last 6 sec seasons is 94-92 in sec play. This is at Kentucky program and a rebuilding miss state team. I don't think a .505 winning clip is so bad dealing with vandy, South Carolina, and Florida in the east

 

[Bulldog from Birth]

I don’t think “we have no talent” is the right wording. Dak was “talented” as a redshirt freshman. But he wasn’t ready to lead and take our football team beyond mediocrity at that point. But what we’ve done this year defies all reason. All the metrics would say that but for wins and losses.

We bat freshman 2nd, 3rd, and 6th in our batting order. Our cleanup hitter is our 2nd baseman who hit about .320 and 2 HR. Our 5 hole hitter didn’t hit a home run until May. May!! Our staff ERA is not good. Our ace won 2 games this year. The FIRST guy we went to in the bullpen last night was a guy who was recruited as a hitter who raised his hand last year saying he’d pitched a bit in high school, after injuries forced us to look for more pitchers mid season. Our 7-9 hitters hit for very low average. And their head coach totally checked out on them before he had to be replaced. We definitely have some talent. But I’ll be honest. The math and every rule of baseball says this team shouldn’t be in the postseason. That’s what the stats would say. But they have fought and worked and clawed there way all the way to Omaha. It’s a remarkable story that they should all be very very proud of. It’s a team that will be long remembered.

 

[Indndawg]

This is prolly the best, most well-thought out response.

 

[engie]

Henderson in his last 6 sec seasons is 94-92 in sec play. This is at Kentucky program and a rebuilding miss state team. I don't think a .505 winning clip is so bad dealing with vandy, South Carolina, and Florida in the east

You are selling me on 3 regional appearances in 7 years and never advancing through them? Really?

 

[Joe Mayo]

Agreed! I'm actually extremely happy for Henderson that he got to accomplish this in his coaching career being an older guy on the backside of his career, but there is no way we should even consider him for the long term future of our program.

People are getting way too emotional right now cause we're going to Omaha. People are overlooking his past and a lot of questionable things he's done this year because we've made Omaha. My question for everybody is if Mac doesn't hit the Walk off against FSU and we went 0-3 in the postseason would you feel the same way and want to make him our coach of the future?

 

[Go Budaw]

Having talent and having a substantial amount of elite talent are two very different things, especially in the SEC. We certainly have some talent....every SEC team does. But the amount is still very middle of the pack in our league (which still means probably Top 25 nationally).

Florida
Vandy
LSU
USCe
Kentucky
OM
Arkansas

All of the above have considerably more talent than we do this season.
Auburn, UGA, and A&M are all probably close to our level. Maybe a little ahead as well in some cases.

 

[Go Budaw]

You are selling me on 3 regional appearances in 7 years and never advancing through them? Really?

I’m pretty sure we just advanced through one.

 

[FlotownDawg]

Was Nick Saban an older guy on the backside of his career when Alabama hired him? He was the same age as Henderson is now when Bama hired him. It's not like Henderson is 70 years old. He's only 56. Lots of people on this board want the young, fiery coach archetype, but we tried that and it didn't work out too well. You can judge Henderson on many things, but his age has nothing to do with whether or not he is qualified for the permanent job.

 

[msstate7]

You are selling me on 3 regional appearances in 7 years and never advancing through them? Really?

The period was last 6 years. 3 regionals, 1 SR, 1 CWS.

Do you think winning at Kentucky is easier, harder, or the same as at miss state? Last year's SR team for Kentucky was Henderson's team he put together which turns out to be very talented. Even with that talent, they missed the tourney this year. Kentucky has won 1 regional in their history. They've been to only 7 regionals in their history.

For the record, I want someone other than Henderson. I like the idea of targeting Kirk Saarloos. I think saarloos and Gautreau could be dynamic. With that said, I think Henderson is better than given credit for

 

[Joe Mayo]

First off his age wasn't my point of not retaining him full time. I said I was happy for him being an older guy on what probably is the backside of his career.

Secondly, you used Nick Saban as your example for Henderson haaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[She Mate Me]

Saarloos hates MSU

He proved it in 01...

http://hailstate.com/sports/2016/5/25/927290.aspx

 

[Shmuley]

Paps sighting in that box score.

 

[msstate7]

First off his age wasn't my point of not retaining him full time. I said I was happy for him being an older guy on what probably is the backside of his career.

Secondly, you used Nick Saban as your example for Henderson haaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Yeah, Henderson isn't saban. Saban was 34-24-1 (0-3 in bowls) at Michigan state in 5 seasons before going 48-16 at LSU though.

 

[o_fredgarvin]

Gautreau is unproven with what appears to be a very high ceiling. Henderson is extremely proven. Everyone knows exactly what he is. The fact that he shared a state with, for most of his tenure, a lesser Louisville program in mid major conferences and was thoroughly dominated should scare the heck out of people. Hiring him off the emotion of this one run ~= the elite 8 midmajor coach the sec fawned over and hired repeatedly to the detriment of the conference in basketball.

I understand the logic, but you cannot ignore the Dog's Breakfast that Henderson had to manage with last year's pitching staff which was a big part of getting the team to a super regional. Followed by being handed this flaming bag of dogs*** at the beginning of the season and taking this team to Omaha. This is more than catching lightning in a bottle. I try to look at this objectively, but you have to give Henderson credit where credit is due.

 

[deadheaddawg]

He's the same age as Tim Corbin.

Who he just beat. At Corbin's house. With all Corbin's #1 recruiting classes I kept hearing about all weekend.

 

[5049]

Yeah, Henderson isn't saban. Saban was 34-24-1 (0-3 in bowls) at Michigan state in 5 seasons before going 48-16 at LSU though.

Wait, so Saban was above average at an average program, then really good at an above average program? You mean that happens? Oh the horror

I keep hearing you must hire away the top 1-2 sitting head coaches in the country (record-wise) to be elite

 

[MissState1]

Yep. Cohen can not make an emotional hire here. I'm sure Henderson is a great guy, and I want him taken care of- but I do not agree with him getting this job.

 

[KeyserSoze1999]

View attachment 10412

 

[engie]

I understand the logic, but you cannot ignore the Dog's Breakfast that Henderson had to manage with last year's pitching staff which was a big part of getting the team to a super regional. Followed by being handed this flaming bag of dogs*** at the beginning of the season and taking this team to Omaha. This is more than catching lightning in a bottle. I try to look at this objectively, but you have to give Henderson credit where credit is due.

Yes he has done plenty to warrant another shot somewhere. He hasn’t done nearly enough to warrant a shot at one of the top 10 programs in the country. I’m not a Henderson basher — and there’s plenty of readily-available quotes from me taking up for him throughout the season when the same people now wanting him to manage Mississippi State going forward wanted him thrown out on his ***.

Everyone keeps dancing around on the “well its Kentucky” thing when McDonnell is winning big every year one hour away in a place that’s only had equal footing for a couple of seasons. No, McDonnell is never coming back to Mississippi. Not unless he goes through a divorce first. But that’s where the bar is still set.

The whole deal is ridiculous. Like saying Polk 2 was elite because of what he inherited with Maholm and Paps had those teams had a little more testicular fortitude.

 

[Philly Dawg]

Henderson has done a heck of a job because those were some impressive arms they were trotting out and our guys just don’t look the same. Lots of those guys will get drafted pretty high.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Gosh.... how may 6'4" 230 lb 95 mph pitchers does Vandy have on their roster? Their SS is one of the best I have seen... it was a mismatch on paper... but "that's baseball"

 

[Go Budaw]

Everyone keeps dancing around on the “well its Kentucky” thing when McDonnell is winning big every year one hour away in a place that’s only had equal footing for a couple of seasons. No, McDonnell is never coming back to Mississippi. Not unless he goes through a divorce first. But that’s where the bar is still set.

Again, I have no idea where you are coming from with this Louisville baseball = Kentucky baseball theory, But it just isn’t true.

First and foremost, Kentucky competes in what currently is and for the past decade has been the most elite division in all of college baseball. 4 natty’s from 3 different teams from SEC East in the past 8 years. That of course also just so happened to be the decade where Henderson was there. Thats head and shoulders above anything Louisville has to deal with. Saying the UK baseball = Louisville baseball is like saying Mississippi State football = Oklahoma State football. Yeah, there aren’t so many differences in resources, spending, facilities, etc. But OSU doesn’t have Alabama, Auburn, and LSU on their schedule every year. So, Oklahoma State will always have a much higher ceiling with the same inputs in talent and coaching.

Secondly, Louisville was in freaking Omaha in 2007, a solid two years before Henderson ever took the reins at UK, and they have been a juggernaut since that time. “Only on equal footing for a couple of seasons” is hogwash. Thanks to McDonnell, Louisville left UK in the dust well before Gary took over. And also thanks to him, that is another Top 10-15 program on UK’s schedule every year in addition to Vandy / UF / USC / Rotating SECW opponents like LSU, Ark, MSU, etc.

Finally, Louisville has only attained the current level they are at BECAUSE of McDonnell - a consensus Top 5 coach in all of college baseball (yes, better than Henderson obviously). It seems your main gripe with Henderson is that he isn’t McDonnell. And hate to break it to you, but if that is your stance you are going to be really disappointed no matter who we get.

 

[Carbaryl]

The period was last 6 years. 3 regionals, 1 SR, 1 CWS.

Do you think winning at Kentucky is easier, harder, or the same as at miss state? Last year's SR team for Kentucky was Henderson's team he put together which turns out to be very talented. Even with that talent, they missed the tourney this year. Kentucky has won 1 regional in their history. They've been to only 7 regionals in their history.

For the record, I want someone other than Henderson. I like the idea of targeting Kirk Saarloos. I think saarloos and Gautreau could be dynamic. With that said, I think Henderson is better than given credit for

Using your logic here then Henderson should not be given any credit for making the CWS this year,since this team was built by Cohen and Cannizaro.So we're really hiring a guy based off his 8 years at UK and his two years as State pitching coach.UK was about as average as it gets in his 8 years there and he has has produced two bottom of the SEC pitching staffs at State.

Henderson has been .500 or below for the past 5 years in the SEC.He's had one winning SEC season in 9 years.Cohen had two at UK in just 5 years.The stupid has runneth over on this subject the last two weeks.

 

[engie]

Again, I have no idea where you are coming from with this Louisville baseball = Kentucky baseball theory, But it just isn’t true.

The ACC is easy now? Blah blah blah, they play in the exact same postseason. And by your logic 500 in the SEC is the same as winning the ACC more often than not. It's asinine. Kentucky won the SEC in 2006 let's remember. And McDonnell went to Omaha thru the friggin Big East at that point in time, which was 11 years before they started actually charging for baseball tickets. Louisville has had a stronger SOS than Kentucky for 2 of the last 4 years.
- Mingione is 2-4 against them. Mingione has hosted a regional though and won it.
- Henderson went 7-10 against them. Never hosted.
- Cohen went 2-2 against them. He also hosted a regional at Kentucky.

Finally, Louisville has only attained the current level they are at BECAUSE of McDonnell - a consensus Top 5 coach in all of college baseball (yes, better than Henderson obviously). It seems your main gripe with Henderson is that he isn’t McDonnell. And hate to break it to you, but if that is your stance you are going to be really disappointed no matter who we get.

1) Yes, I am saying that elite >>> somewhere around average. Proven over a decade not to be quite as good at his job as our athletics director is --- at his job.
2) You are wrong on the search.

 

[msstate7]

Using your logic here then Henderson should not be given any credit for making the CWS this year,since this team was built by Cohen and Cannizaro.So we're really hiring a guy based off his 8 years at UK and his two years as State pitching coach.UK was about as average as it gets in his 8 years there and he has has produced two bottom of the SEC pitching staffs at State.

Henderson has been .500 or below for the past 5 years in the SEC.He's had one winning SEC season in 9 years.Cohen had two at UK in just 5 years.The stupid has runneth over on this subject the last two weeks.

I'm "stupid", but you quote a post that I clearly say I want someone other than Henderson.

 

[msstate7]

The ACC is easy now? Blah blah blah, they play in the exact same postseason. And by your logic 500 in the SEC is the same as winning the ACC more often than not. It's asinine. Kentucky won the SEC in 2006 let's remember. And McDonnell went to Omaha thru the friggin Big East at that point in time, which was 11 years before they started actually charging for baseball tickets. Louisville has had a stronger SOS than Kentucky for 2 of the last 4 years.
- Mingione is 2-4 against them. Mingione has hosted a regional though and won it.
- Henderson went 7-10 against them. Never hosted.
- Cohen went 2-2 against them. He also hosted a regional at Kentucky.


1) Yes, I am saying that elite >>> somewhere around average. Proven over a decade not to be quite as good at his job as our athletics director is --- at his job.
2) You are wrong on the search.

Who among the elites do you predict to come here? I just don't see any of them. I'm not saying hire Henderson bc of this... I still think we can get a good coach. If we keep missing on our top targets though, I think Henderson becomes more and more of a candidate

 

[Carbaryl]

I'm "stupid", but you quote a post that I clearly say I want someone other than Henderson.

I didn't say you were "stupid".I clearly said the last two weeks have made people stupid when it comes to the subject of Henderson and the future of MSU baseball.

 

[BiscuitEater]

All that, and take into account Kentucky's current draft picks, plus how Henderson was always known as a recruiter, he obviously relates to these guys, and has a couple of COY awards......and....uh

We have our coach

No, MSU will not make a HC decision until AFTER their final baseball game. The one thing that concerns me about Gary is the fact that in 7 of 8 years as KY HC, they NEVER finished higher than 4th in the East.

Nobody even knows IF Gary even wants the job. He's 50+. He's spent the vast majority of his career as a Div 1 Asst. Coach.

What I'm getting really tired of is the 'Kendal Rogers' kind of folks spouting off about 'who' is going to be the next coach when they're just guessing and idiots telling us 'who' we need to hire.

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

There were only about 5 or 6 elite coaches out there that match Cohen’s own description of what he was after. If none of them are interested, I would be fine with keeping Henderson for a while.

 

[5049]

The ACC is easy now? Blah blah blah, they play in the exact same postseason. And by your logic 500 in the SEC is the same as winning the ACC more often than not. It's asinine. Kentucky won the SEC in 2006 let's remember. And McDonnell went to Omaha thru the friggin Big East at that point in time, which was 11 years before they started actually charging for baseball tickets. Louisville has had a stronger SOS than Kentucky for 2 of the last 4 years.
- Mingione is 2-4 against them. Mingione has hosted a regional though and won it.
- Henderson went 7-10 against them. Never hosted.
- Cohen went 2-2 against them. He also hosted a regional at Kentucky.


1) Yes, I am saying that elite >>> somewhere around average. Proven over a decade not to be quite as good at his job as our athletics director is --- at his job.
2) You are wrong on the search.

Let's keep it accurate

Henderson should have hosted a regional in 2012, got screwed, just like Mingione should have made the postseason this year, it's silly to make those lines rigid