Why cancel the season?

[BigBlueFanGA]

this better?

And? There is nothing wrong. He's trying to keep folks calm but when things worsen he's forced to talk in more stark terms. TDS

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

You made your mind up about Trump long before this. Enjoy your TDS and losing again in November. Most of your talking points are from CNN, etc. Trumps ratings on how he’s handling this are strong. Chew on that some more.

Actually they are from ProPublica and factcheck.org, but attack the sources all you want. It is what your master teaches when all else fails.

Actually his rating have fallen the last few days, he is in the negative again and slipping. The more that die, the more he falls. However, Bidens numbers have been growing. And actually, I don't mind if Trump gets re-elected. I am greatly enjoying the **** show and watching the US burn.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/abc-news-coronavirus-poll

This KnowledgePanel survey conducted April 1-2, 2020 finds that 47% of Americans approve of the way Donald Trump is handling the response to the coronavirus, down from 55% two weeks ago and 51% in last week's ABC News/ Washington Post poll.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

It's not meant to call you out or insult you, but it can be negligent to compare this to the flu. Really in any way. When some people see that, they don't always understand the context you are speaking in and equate the severity to that of influenza, when this is showing to me far different and more serious virus.

Most people who get this get flu like symptoms or less. I agree with you, I've been arguing against comparing this to the flu on here for weeks. It isn't the flu, the death rate is different and it has other effects on your body but at some level, it isn't that different to the general public.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

Most people who get this get flu like symptoms or less. I agree with you, I've been arguing against comparing this to the flu on here for weeks. It isn't the flu, the death rate is different and it has other effects on your body but at some level, it isn't that different to the general public.

I think it depends on the severity, because some people are getting it and aren't getting any symptoms. Which are the ones passing it around most. And then some are getting a really intense flu with the body chills and aches, but then it gets far more painful and serious. Then you get the people that are on deaths door in a day or 2. But yea, the actual disease impact on your body is far more serious and deadly overall, it appears.

 

[Skyguyb27]

Actually they are from ProPublica and factcheck.org, but attack the sources all you want. It is what your master teaches when all else fails.

Actually his rating have fallen the last few days, he is in the negative again and slipping. The more that die, the more he falls. However, Bidens numbers have been growing. And actually, I don't mind if Trump gets re-elected. I am greatly enjoying the **** show and watching the US burn.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/abc-news-coronavirus-poll

This KnowledgePanel survey conducted April 1-2, 2020 finds that 47% of Americans approve of the way Donald Trump is handling the response to the coronavirus, down from 55% two weeks ago and 51% in last week's ABC News/ Washington Post poll.

Trump numbers have fallen a little because that's the nature of the beast. Bidens numbers have went up some because he doesnt hold a political office and can say what alot of people (CNN and MSNBC) push as the agenda. He can say this freely because he doesnt have to back it up with actions. He also doesn't have half the government trying to undermine him and twist his words even if it means American deaths to push their agendas.

I personally don't think Trump is the 2nd coming of Christ but I think he has done better than alot of people have given him credit for considering the constant undermining. I dont care what party a person is from in order to hold office but they must be in it for the Americans not what the position can do for them or their party.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

Trump numbers have fallen a little because that's the nature of the beast. Bidens numbers have went up some because he doesnt hold a political office and can say what alot of people (CNN and MSNBC) push as the agenda. He can say this freely because he doesnt have to back it up with actions. He also doesn't have half the government trying to undermine him and twist his words even if it means American deaths to push their agendas.

I personally don't think Trump is the 2nd coming of Christ but I think he has done better than alot of people have given him credit for considering the constant undermining. I dont care what party a person is from in order to hold office but they must be in it for the Americans not what the position can do for them or their party.

Trumps numbers have come back to where they were. They went up initially because he had convinced enough people at the time this wasn't that serious. However, after mounting evidence the contrary, he has since had to walk that back and admit more than 100,000 could die in the next few months alone. Also, his strongest campaign message of a strong economy is crashing and burning before his eyes. The only person undermining Trump is Trump himself.

Biden's numbers going up because every time he speaks he sounds like a leader with intelligent ideas and experience on handling a crisis like this. And that is saying something considering he isn't even that great of a speaker. However, he conveys empathy, respect, calmness, poise and leadership. That is what the country needs so badly.

Trump has failed every step of the way on this. Both sides have members who have tried to help and he hasn't listened or waited until it was too late. You can believe what you want, but the evidence proved something else entirely.

 

[Bluegrassking]

You have been wrong time and time in this exchange. You can’t admit it, simply extend the goal posts.

I read an article yesterday from a Dr in NYC. He goes on and on about how bad it is, and then implied a woman that died of a heart attack was his first Covid death?

I’m having a questioning attitude, you’re playing politics.

Likely it was their assessment that the patient would have survived the heart attack if not for the virus which seems a perfectly reasonable standard for anyone who is not trying to minimize the numbers.

 

[Bill Derington]

Likely it was their assessment that the patient would have survived the heart attack if not for the virus which seems a perfectly reasonable standard for anyone who is not trying to minimize the numbers.

Likely? It never even stated she had the virus. From now on are we going to label it a flu death if they have a heart attack, but test positive for the flu? That is a serious question.

 

[Bill Derington]

https://www.phe.gov/Preparedness/legal/Pages/phedeclaration.aspx

As cited above, a Public health emergency, which was declared in January, allows for the government to decide what to do with funds and medical supplies for a period of 90 days, but which can be extended.

It's not really hindsight when it has already been pointed out we are still doing it! Jesus Christ man, you are just delusional, but at least you are starting to acknowledge a big mistake was made. Maybe you will slowly start to see and accept all the others.

Then why didn’t the Sec of Health stop the transfer, or even try?
Again, it isn’t what you implied and you’re trying to dig your way out.

 

[Bill Derington]

Leadership starts at the top. If the president would set a good example, people might follow the lead and get in line. Instead we hear about his TV ratings, facebook and twitter follower counts, how governors need to be nice if they expect his help and so on. He attacks people he doesn't like and has literally made fun of political opponents who have been diagnosed or awaiting rest results to see of they do have it. None of that behavior is going to demonstrate to the general public that it is time to come together.


First, the swine flu did not kill 17,000 people. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated that H1N1 killed about 12,500 Americans between April 2009 and 2010, far fewer people than typically die each year from the flu. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there were about 60.8 million cases of infection with the novel type of influenza virus in the U.S. between April 2009 and April 2010, with a total of approximately 274,304 hospitalizations and 12,469 deaths. In fact, the death toll ended up being far lower than was initially expected because of the actions of the Obama administration. The strain of influenza also turned out to have a case fatality rate of just 0.02% — well below even many typical seasonal influenzas.

Second, the president’s characterization of the government’s response does not match reality. If anything, the response to H1N1 was swift in comparison to the current administration’s handling of the coronavirus.

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.

Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.

The test developed by the CDC was created quickly. It was accurate. And it was shared with governments around the world. The capacity of CDC at that point to make and develop and quickly turn out a test was vastly different than what is occurring with the coronavirus.

In an interview, Dr. Tom Frieden, who was CDC director, said testing for H1N1 and the United States’ willingness to share its test with other countries was a success. “I traveled all over the world and for years afterward even very hostile governments were saying thank you for sending it to us.”

Coronavirus testing, on the other hand, remains mired in delays. Though the first person in the United States was confirmed to have the virus on Jan. 20, a series of problems have kept testing out of reach for many patients with telltale symptoms of the virus. The CDC designed a flawed test for COVID-19, then it took weeks to figure out a fix so state and local labs could use it, ProPublica found. Trump said on March 6 that “anybody who wants a test gets a test,” but many doctors, patients and public health leaders say that is not the case.

On Wednesday, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican, said: “Testing is limited. It will, in all likelihood, remain limited.”

Almost from the day the H1N1 strain of flu was identified, researchers set out to develop a vaccine for it. Six days after the first case was identified in April 2009, the CDC began working to develop a candidate vaccine virus. Clinical trials began in July. And on Sept. 15, the Food and Drug Administration approved four 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines. The first doses of the vaccine were available in October, and by December, 100 million doses were available to be ordered.

Once it was manufactured, the vaccine was distributed widely. CDC arranged for 126.9 million doses of the vaccine to be shipped to tens of thousands of medical providers. All told, about 81 million U.S. residents were vaccinated, and the strain is now a regular part of annual flu shots.

There is no vaccine yet for the coronavirus. The disease is novel and appears to behave differently than the flu, so it will likely take longer to develop a vaccine. The first patients in a clinical trial of a vaccine were given shots this week. But Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, cautioned that the process may take a year or more.

“We’re close to starting a phase 1 trial to determine safety,” Fauci said recently on CNN. “We’re going to do that in about one and a half to two months. But that doesn’t mean you have a vaccine. In order to get a vaccine that’s practically deployable for people to use, it’s going to be at least a year to a year and a half at best.”

If Trump wants to learn from H1N1, he could start readying manufacturing capabilities right now, so once the coronavirus vaccine is proven to be safe and effective, there won’t be any delay.

One of the key lessons from H1N1 was the need for clear and honest communication, something they both faulted in the current coronavirus response. Obama’s administration reacted with alarm as cases of H1N1 were initially reported. Trump, by comparison, repeatedly reassured the public that everything was under control.

“From Day 1, [Obama] said: ‘We will be led by the facts. We need to tell people what we know and what we don’t know,’” Sebelius said. She said she and her team held twice-a-day press conferences to do that.

At one point, in June 2009, Obama invited experts who helped respond to the 1976 swine flu outbreak to a private meeting at the White House. He wanted to know “what went right and what went wrong. What do we need to learn, how do we need to do this,” Sebelius said.n“I haven’t seen any of that go on with this,” she added, referring to the coronavirus.

Asked to rate his response to the crisis on a scale of 1 to 10, Trump said on March 16: “I’d rate it a 10. I think we’ve done a great job. ... We were very, very, early with respect to China. And we would have a whole different situation in this country if we didn’t do that.”

Frieden said he’s been troubled by the fact that CDC officials haven’t played a more visible role in the crisis response. Instead of briefings led by CDC leaders, Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and others brief the media each day. “The biggest concern that I see now is the lack of CDC at the table when decisions are being made and at the podium when they’re being communicated,” Frieden said. “That is a really big mistake. That has not happened before.” “This is not the way to run a railroad. It might get better. We’ll see. I hope so. We all want them to succeed.”

The swine flu killed 18000 people in the US, that is an estimate because not everyone was tested. It also is counting only people that died with flu related symptoms. It isn’t people that died of a heart attack but tested positive for the virus.
President Obama reacted much slower than Pres Trump, he didn’t declare a national emergency until September or October after more than a thousand had died. I’m not faulting him or casting blame.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

Then why didn’t the Sec of Health stop the transfer, or even try?
Again, it isn’t what you implied and you’re trying to dig your way out.

Because he was appointed and controlled by Trump. I am sure he voiced his concerns and was overridden like everyone else. We know what happens when they speak out publicly.

What did I imply? What am I trying to dig my way out of? Why are you just making up random stuff now instead of sticking to the facts? Moving the goal post get to tiresome?

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

The swine flu killed 18000 people in the US, that is an estimate because not everyone was tested. It also is counting only people that died with flu related symptoms. It isn’t people that died of a heart attack but tested positive for the virus.
President Obama reacted much slower than Pres Trump, he didn’t declare a national emergency until September or October after more than a thousand had died. I’m not faulting him or casting blame.

No true. Please show evidence of the contrary if so. Personal beliefs, void of fact and reality, do not constitute as fact.

First, the swine flu did not kill 18,000 people. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated that H1N1 killed about 12,500 Americans between April 2009 and 2010, far fewer people than typically die each year from the flu. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there were about 60.8 million cases of infection with the novel type of influenza virus in the U.S. between April 2009 and April 2010, with a total of approximately 274,304 hospitalizations and 12,469 deaths. In fact, the death toll ended up being far lower than was initially expected because of the actions of the Obama administration. The strain of influenza also turned out to have a case fatality rate of just 0.02% — well below even many typical seasonal influenzas.

Second, the president’s characterization of the government’s response does not match reality. If anything, the response to H1N1 was swift in comparison to the current administration’s handling of the coronavirus.

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.

Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.

The test developed by the CDC was created quickly. It was accurate. And it was shared with governments around the world. The capacity of CDC at that point to make and develop and quickly turn out a test was vastly different than what is occurring with the coronavirus.

In an interview, Dr. Tom Frieden, who was CDC director, said testing for H1N1 and the United States’ willingness to share its test with other countries was a success. “I traveled all over the world and for years afterward even very hostile governments were saying thank you for sending it to us.”

Coronavirus testing, on the other hand, remains mired in delays. Though the first person in the United States was confirmed to have the virus on Jan. 20, a series of problems have kept testing out of reach for many patients with telltale symptoms of the virus. The CDC designed a flawed test for COVID-19, then it took weeks to figure out a fix so state and local labs could use it, ProPublica found. Trump said on March 6 that “anybody who wants a test gets a test,” but many doctors, patients and public health leaders say that is not the case.

On Wednesday, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican, said: “Testing is limited. It will, in all likelihood, remain limited.”

Almost from the day the H1N1 strain of flu was identified, researchers set out to develop a vaccine for it. Six days after the first case was identified in April 2009, the CDC began working to develop a candidate vaccine virus. Clinical trials began in July. And on Sept. 15, the Food and Drug Administration approved four 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines. The first doses of the vaccine were available in October, and by December, 100 million doses were available to be ordered.

Once it was manufactured, the vaccine was distributed widely. CDC arranged for 126.9 million doses of the vaccine to be shipped to tens of thousands of medical providers. All told, about 81 million U.S. residents were vaccinated, and the strain is now a regular part of annual flu shots.

There is no vaccine yet for the coronavirus. The disease is novel and appears to behave differently than the flu, so it will likely take longer to develop a vaccine. The first patients in a clinical trial of a vaccine were given shots this week. But Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, cautioned that the process may take a year or more.

“We’re close to starting a phase 1 trial to determine safety,” Fauci said recently on CNN. “We’re going to do that in about one and a half to two months. But that doesn’t mean you have a vaccine. In order to get a vaccine that’s practically deployable for people to use, it’s going to be at least a year to a year and a half at best.”

If Trump wants to learn from H1N1, he could start readying manufacturing capabilities right now, so once the coronavirus vaccine is proven to be safe and effective, there won’t be any delay.

One of the key lessons from H1N1 was the need for clear and honest communication, something they both faulted in the current coronavirus response. Obama’s administration reacted with alarm as cases of H1N1 were initially reported. Trump, by comparison, repeatedly reassured the public that everything was under control.

“From Day 1, [Obama] said: ‘We will be led by the facts. We need to tell people what we know and what we don’t know,’” Sebelius said. She said she and her team held twice-a-day press conferences to do that.

At one point, in June 2009, Obama invited experts who helped respond to the 1976 swine flu outbreak to a private meeting at the White House. He wanted to know “what went right and what went wrong. What do we need to learn, how do we need to do this,” Sebelius said.n“I haven’t seen any of that go on with this,” she added, referring to the coronavirus.

Asked to rate his response to the crisis on a scale of 1 to 10, Trump said on March 16: “I’d rate it a 10. I think we’ve done a great job. ... We were very, very, early with respect to China. And we would have a whole different situation in this country if we didn’t do that.”

Frieden said he’s been troubled by the fact that CDC officials haven’t played a more visible role in the crisis response. Instead of briefings led by CDC leaders, Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and others brief the media each day. “The biggest concern that I see now is the lack of CDC at the table when decisions are being made and at the podium when they’re being communicated,” Frieden said. “That is a really big mistake. That has not happened before.” “This is not the way to run a railroad. It might get better. We’ll see. I hope so. We all want them to succeed.”

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

@Bill Derington what do you do for a living?

 

[SuporChin]

You can't be taken seriously unless you show the same outrage over the thousands dying from H1N1 when Obama waited six months to declare it a National Emergeny. I'll await your outrage.

So because the right people didn't show outrage over President Obama, that means people can't be upset if they feel this has been mishandled by the current administration?
Obama has been out of office for over three years now. However he handled the H1N1 has almost no implications on how the Trump administration has chosen to handle COVID.

 

[Bill Derington]

Because he was appointed and controlled by Trump. I am sure he voiced his concerns and was overridden like everyone else. We know what happens when they speak out publicly.

What did I imply? What am I trying to dig my way out of? Why are you just making up random stuff now instead of sticking to the facts? Moving the goal post get to tiresome?

You implied that it was the US Govt providing medical aid to China on that date and specific tonnage. You even stated today for me to provide a link to where it was private donations.
So you just assume the secretary voiced his concerns? Also who is Trump over riding? The country is shutdown, I guarantee he doesn’t like that, but he’s listening to the medical advisors.

 

[Baller Cal]

So because the right people didn't show outrage over President Obama, that means people can't be upset if they feel this has been mishandled by the current administration?
Obama has been out of office for over three years now. However he handled the H1N1 has almost no implications on how the Trump administration has chosen to handle COVID.

Oh you know exactly what I meant. Puny little people blame Trump for EVERYTHING and gave Obama a pass on EVERYTHING. You are being dishonest if you say the vast majority of Democrats would spin Trump's response as negative no matter what happened. What's sick and disgusting is how many Democrats are showing passionate anger towards Trump and no anger at all towards China. People like that can't e taken seriously.

 

[Bill Derington]

@Bill Derington what do you do for a living?

Are you serious?

 

[Baller Cal]

My party runs the country and me and many others are happy. I'll continue to watch the other half cry and whine and place blame like petulant children who aren't allowed to have an iPhone. Sucks for them that they get to do it all over again for four more years. LOL! See ya.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

No true. Please show evidence of the contrary if so. Personal beliefs, void of fact and reality, do not constitute as fact.

First, the swine flu did not kill 18,000 people. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated that H1N1 killed about 12,500 Americans between April 2009 and 2010, far fewer people than typically die each year from the flu. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there were about 60.8 million cases of infection with the novel type of influenza virus in the U.S. between April 2009 and April 2010, with a total of approximately 274,304 hospitalizations and 12,469 deaths. In fact, the death toll ended up being far lower than was initially expected because of the actions of the Obama administration. The strain of influenza also turned out to have a case fatality rate of just 0.02% — well below even many typical seasonal influenzas.

Second, the president’s characterization of the government’s response does not match reality. If anything, the response to H1N1 was swift in comparison to the current administration’s handling of the coronavirus.

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.

Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.

The test developed by the CDC was created quickly. It was accurate. And it was shared with governments around the world. The capacity of CDC at that point to make and develop and quickly turn out a test was vastly different than what is occurring with the coronavirus.

In an interview, Dr. Tom Frieden, who was CDC director, said testing for H1N1 and the United States’ willingness to share its test with other countries was a success. “I traveled all over the world and for years afterward even very hostile governments were saying thank you for sending it to us.”

Coronavirus testing, on the other hand, remains mired in delays. Though the first person in the United States was confirmed to have the virus on Jan. 20, a series of problems have kept testing out of reach for many patients with telltale symptoms of the virus. The CDC designed a flawed test for COVID-19, then it took weeks to figure out a fix so state and local labs could use it, ProPublica found. Trump said on March 6 that “anybody who wants a test gets a test,” but many doctors, patients and public health leaders say that is not the case.

On Wednesday, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican, said: “Testing is limited. It will, in all likelihood, remain limited.”

Almost from the day the H1N1 strain of flu was identified, researchers set out to develop a vaccine for it. Six days after the first case was identified in April 2009, the CDC began working to develop a candidate vaccine virus. Clinical trials began in July. And on Sept. 15, the Food and Drug Administration approved four 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines. The first doses of the vaccine were available in October, and by December, 100 million doses were available to be ordered.

Once it was manufactured, the vaccine was distributed widely. CDC arranged for 126.9 million doses of the vaccine to be shipped to tens of thousands of medical providers. All told, about 81 million U.S. residents were vaccinated, and the strain is now a regular part of annual flu shots.

There is no vaccine yet for the coronavirus. The disease is novel and appears to behave differently than the flu, so it will likely take longer to develop a vaccine. The first patients in a clinical trial of a vaccine were given shots this week. But Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, cautioned that the process may take a year or more.

“We’re close to starting a phase 1 trial to determine safety,” Fauci said recently on CNN. “We’re going to do that in about one and a half to two months. But that doesn’t mean you have a vaccine. In order to get a vaccine that’s practically deployable for people to use, it’s going to be at least a year to a year and a half at best.”

If Trump wants to learn from H1N1, he could start readying manufacturing capabilities right now, so once the coronavirus vaccine is proven to be safe and effective, there won’t be any delay.

One of the key lessons from H1N1 was the need for clear and honest communication, something they both faulted in the current coronavirus response. Obama’s administration reacted with alarm as cases of H1N1 were initially reported. Trump, by comparison, repeatedly reassured the public that everything was under control.

“From Day 1, [Obama] said: ‘We will be led by the facts. We need to tell people what we know and what we don’t know,’” Sebelius said. She said she and her team held twice-a-day press conferences to do that.

At one point, in June 2009, Obama invited experts who helped respond to the 1976 swine flu outbreak to a private meeting at the White House. He wanted to know “what went right and what went wrong. What do we need to learn, how do we need to do this,” Sebelius said.n“I haven’t seen any of that go on with this,” she added, referring to the coronavirus.

Asked to rate his response to the crisis on a scale of 1 to 10, Trump said on March 16: “I’d rate it a 10. I think we’ve done a great job. ... We were very, very, early with respect to China. And we would have a whole different situation in this country if we didn’t do that.”

Frieden said he’s been troubled by the fact that CDC officials haven’t played a more visible role in the crisis response. Instead of briefings led by CDC leaders, Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and others brief the media each day. “The biggest concern that I see now is the lack of CDC at the table when decisions are being made and at the podium when they’re being communicated,” Frieden said. “That is a really big mistake. That has not happened before.” “This is not the way to run a railroad. It might get better. We’ll see. I hope so. We all want them to succeed.”

Totally different situations. They had months and months of warning. Come on, what causes the issues on here is the droning of Obama good, Trump bad. If you're trying to say that deaths were held down as a direct result of what Obama did you'd have to convince me. There isn't much to do with influenza. They don't even try to contain it like they have with covid-19.

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

Trump numbers have fallen a little because that's the nature of the beast. Bidens numbers have went up some because he doesnt hold a political office and can say what alot of people (CNN and MSNBC) push as the agenda. He can say this freely because he doesnt have to back it up with actions. He also doesn't have half the government trying to undermine him and twist his words even if it means American deaths to push their agendas.

I personally don't think Trump is the 2nd coming of Christ but I think he has done better than alot of people have given him credit for considering the constant undermining. I dont care what party a person is from in order to hold office but they must be in it for the Americans not what the position can do for them or their party.

LOL, who exactly is undermining him and how? This man gets more excuses made for his incompetence and habitual lying than any man alive.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

You implied that it was the US Govt providing medical aid to China on that date and specific tonnage. You even stated today for me to provide a link to where it was private donations.
So you just assume the secretary voiced his concerns? Also who is Trump over riding? The country is shutdown, I guarantee he doesn’t like that, but he’s listening to the medical advisors.

The US govt itself flat stated it sent medical supplies to China on those dates. I didn't have to imply anything. You implied they did not. I just provided the evidence they did. And yes, I would still love to see that link if you could provide it. Surely you got info for somewhere to base that false assertion that they did not, correct?

When did he shut the country down? There are still like 20 states without any stay at home orders of any kind. Traffic is out everywhere. Stores that are open are full of people. We are far from shut down. Some states are, but not the country as a whole.

Here is this little gem about the Trump admin sidelining Alez Azar, the Health and Human Services Secretary.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/05/white-house-alex-azar-coronavirus-122250

And then there is this gem all about Alex Azar and his screwed up actions.

The catastrophic lack of public information surrounding the spread of the novel coronavirus has led to tanking financial markets and possible economic meltdown, but the greater concern is how many Americans might get seriously sick or even die from the outbreak who need not have. For the past month, the United States has been flying blind into the deadly new pandemic due to a lack of available testing, and Alex Azar is the official most responsible for that failure.

Is it fair to blame Azar and the Trump administration generally for a global disease that apparently started with bats in Wuhan, China? No. It is fair, though, to blame him for the woeful federal response that has resulted in a horrifying under-identification of cases, the actions of public health officials that may have actually exacerbated the crisis, and the many lies and misleading statements he has told to the public as the disaster has unfolded.

How have Azar and HHS failed in this crisis? Let us count the ways.

• The most critical failure is America’s tragic testing regime. While testing has been widespread in other countries, it has been tightly restricted in the United States due to a broken health care system; terrible, unexplained decisions not to use available resources; and the use of faulty tests. Dr. Anthony Fauci, a member of Trump’s coronavirus task force, acknowledged as much on Thursday. “It is a failing. Let’s admit it,” he told the House Oversight Committee. “The idea of anybody getting it easily the way people in other countries are doing it—we’re not set up for that. Do I think we should be? Yes, but we’re not.”

The shortages, incomprehensibly, continue to this day.
How did this happen? Federal officials still haven’t offered any explanation as to why the United States refused to use tests shipped by the World Health Organization, which distributed tests to almost 60 countries, when the contagion was in its early phase, a move which could have helped with detection and slowed community spread. Instead, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention opted to design and use its own tests, which turned out to be faulty and resulted in many inconclusive results. As the New York Times has reported, researchers in Seattle who had the capacity to step in and help fill the shortage as cases exploded in the region were instructed not to test.

The shortages, incomprehensibly, continue to this day. On Tuesday, Politico reported that even as test availability has increased—not up to need, but beyond the initial low numbers—a shortage of necessary lab equipment has continued to hamper testing and led to further undercounts. On Thursday, it was reported that only about 11,000 tests had been conducted in the United States, as compared with more than 10,000 per day in South Korea. Public health officials also confirmed that just 77 people were tested by the CDC between Sunday and Wednesday morning. All of these failures belong to Azar and his department.

• HHS leadership repeated an early mistake of quarantining cruise ship passengers on ships where the disease was likelier to spread, rather than disembarking and quarantining infected passengers on land.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

You implied that it was the US Govt providing medical aid to China on that date and specific tonnage. You even stated today for me to provide a link to where it was private donations.
So you just assume the secretary voiced his concerns? Also who is Trump over riding? The country is shutdown, I guarantee he doesn’t like that, but he’s listening to the medical advisors.

Part 2:

• Last month, a whistleblower reported that federal health officials did not have the protective gear or infection training they needed when working with American evacuees from Wuhan who had been exposed to the virus and were quarantined at March Air Reserve Base in Riverside, California. These federal workers then took commercial flights to return to their communities without being tested. CNN further reported on Wednesday that workers at Travis Air Force Base in Solano County, California, were similarly ill-equipped and also returned to their communities without testing. “They’re spraying down streets with bleach in China,” one of CNN’s sources said. “We would go straight from quarantine to Starbucks.” As CNN further reported: “In an after-action report filed with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services one of the workers stated that when he complained about the lack of proper protective equipment, a supervisor told him: ‘If you don’t feel comfortable, we’ll find another job for you.’ ”

Azar’s HHS department responded to the whistleblower complaint by saying that workers were asymptomatic and “therefore, testing for the virus is not medically necessary.” Health experts say that some people who contract the coronavirus may be asymptomatic or presymptomatic and still spread the disease. Azar himself has stated, without proof, “Even if these allegations prove to be true, there was no spreading of the disease from this.”

• Reuters, meanwhile, reported on Thursday that Azar kept dozens of coronavirus threat meetings classified at the White House’s insistence, restricting access from public health officials who needed information about the outbreak. “We had some very critical people who did not have security clearances who could not go,” one official said. “These should not be classified meetings. It was unnecessary.” As Reuters reported, the move was apparently part of a White House media strategy of keeping information from the public: “One of the administration officials suggested the security clearances for meetings at HHS were imposed not to protect national security but to keep the information within a tight circle, to prevent leaks.”

• The Associated Press reported last week that Azar gave in to White House demands not to publish guidance by the CDC recommending that older Americans not fly.

President Donald Trump has added to the harm of the lack of testing by lying to the public constantly about it. The secretary of Health and Human Services, whose job in a public health crisis is to make sure the public is as informed as possible, has excused or amplified the president’s deceit and misinformation. For instance, after Trump said last week that “anyone who wants a test can get a test,” Azar said the president was just speaking in “shorthand.” “What he meant to say is we’re not in the way of that,” Azar said. And when Trump said, “A lot of people think it goes away in April with the heat,” Azar validated these comments, claiming, “He said he hopes it will go away with warmer weather.” In that same interview, Azar also claimed the virus was “contained.”

Overall, Azar has backed Trump’s administration line of downplaying the effects of the virus that other public health officials have acknowledged is at least 10 times as deadly as the flu. “The risk to any average American is low from the novel coronavirus,” Azar said on Feb. 29. “The risk remains low. Thanks to the unprecedented actions President Trump has taken and the actions he’s announcing today, that risk remains low. But this can change rapidly.”

Early in the crisis, Azar flatly lied about the number of people who had been tested and said that “there is no testing kit shortage, nor has there ever been.” As recently as Tuesday, Azar gave the misleading statement that “there are millions of tests out there now,” when in reality, testing numbers have remained in the thousands.

Are you serious?

Yes! Are you insecure about it or something?

I am just curious as to your background and qualifications to make the claims and assessments you are making without any factual data, articles or so forth to support....

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

Totally different situations. They had months and months of warning. Come on, what causes the issues on here is the droning of Obama good, Trump bad. If you're trying to say that deaths were held down as a direct result of what Obama did you'd have to convince me. There isn't much to do with influenza. They don't even try to contain it like they have with covid-19.

There isnt much to do? LOL! How about doing mass testing and contact tracing to identify those who have it and people who have been in contact with people who have had it so you can quartine them instead of shutting almost all of society. How about ensuring that doctors and nurses have all the equipment they need in the middle of a pandemic. How about not minimizing this and saying its just the flu. How about not lying everyday at his press briefings.

 

[Bill Derington]

The US govt itself flat stated it sent medical supplies to China on those dates. I didn't have to imply anything. You implied they did not. I just provided the evidence they did. And yes, I would still love to see that link if you could provide it. Surely you got info for somewhere to base that false assertion that they did not, correct?

When did he shut the country down? There are still like 20 states without any stay at home orders of any kind. Traffic is out everywhere. Stores that are open are full of people. We are far from shut down. Some states are, but not the country as a whole.

Here is this little gem about the Trump admin sidelining Alez Azar, the Health and Human Services Secretary.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/05/white-house-alex-azar-coronavirus-122250

And then there is this gem all about Alex Azar and his screwed up actions.

The catastrophic lack of public information surrounding the spread of the novel coronavirus has led to tanking financial markets and possible economic meltdown, but the greater concern is how many Americans might get seriously sick or even die from the outbreak who need not have. For the past month, the United States has been flying blind into the deadly new pandemic due to a lack of available testing, and Alex Azar is the official most responsible for that failure.

Is it fair to blame Azar and the Trump administration generally for a global disease that apparently started with bats in Wuhan, China? No. It is fair, though, to blame him for the woeful federal response that has resulted in a horrifying under-identification of cases, the actions of public health officials that may have actually exacerbated the crisis, and the many lies and misleading statements he has told to the public as the disaster has unfolded.

How have Azar and HHS failed in this crisis? Let us count the ways.

• The most critical failure is America’s tragic testing regime. While testing has been widespread in other countries, it has been tightly restricted in the United States due to a broken health care system; terrible, unexplained decisions not to use available resources; and the use of faulty tests. Dr. Anthony Fauci, a member of Trump’s coronavirus task force, acknowledged as much on Thursday. “It is a failing. Let’s admit it,” he told the House Oversight Committee. “The idea of anybody getting it easily the way people in other countries are doing it—we’re not set up for that. Do I think we should be? Yes, but we’re not.”

The shortages, incomprehensibly, continue to this day.
How did this happen? Federal officials still haven’t offered any explanation as to why the United States refused to use tests shipped by the World Health Organization, which distributed tests to almost 60 countries, when the contagion was in its early phase, a move which could have helped with detection and slowed community spread. Instead, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention opted to design and use its own tests, which turned out to be faulty and resulted in many inconclusive results. As the New York Times has reported, researchers in Seattle who had the capacity to step in and help fill the shortage as cases exploded in the region were instructed not to test.

The shortages, incomprehensibly, continue to this day. On Tuesday, Politico reported that even as test availability has increased—not up to need, but beyond the initial low numbers—a shortage of necessary lab equipment has continued to hamper testing and led to further undercounts. On Thursday, it was reported that only about 11,000 tests had been conducted in the United States, as compared with more than 10,000 per day in South Korea. Public health officials also confirmed that just 77 people were tested by the CDC between Sunday and Wednesday morning. All of these failures belong to Azar and his department.

• HHS leadership repeated an early mistake of quarantining cruise ship passengers on ships where the disease was likelier to spread, rather than disembarking and quarantining infected passengers on land.

The WHO did not offer tests, that was flatly refuted by Dr Birx and Dr Fauci.

The CDC absolutely dropped the ball on testing, but when did we go from herd immunity as the plan to flattening the curve?
The Imperial college report that started all of this claimed 2.2 million could die if we didn’t flatten the curve. Only that wasn’t their original direction, it was that Herd immunity was the way to go.
It’s important to know when that thought process changed.

The govt set up the Aid shipment, it wasn’t govt aid, which is what you implied and even argued when I stated it was money sent on that date and the aid was shipped prior.

I’m not telling you my occupation, you choose to ignore what doesn’t fit your preconceived notion.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

Totally different situations. They had months and months of warning. Come on, what causes the issues on here is the droning of Obama good, Trump bad. If you're trying to say that deaths were held down as a direct result of what Obama did you'd have to convince me. There isn't much to do with influenza. They don't even try to contain it like they have with covid-19.

I will agree the diseases are completely different, as were the way they were handled. The Obama administration handled it like a boss!

I am not sure where you get that they had months of warning. The first confirmed case was in Mexico in March, we had a confirmed case in April. They later learned that it had likely been present but undetected since late 2008, but was never identified as H1N1 until March 2009.

I am saying the response greatly reduced the expected number of casualties related to it. Our response also saves millions around the world as we had a vaccine created and distributed within 8 months. By the hundred of millions. As was quoted in the article I posted, we still get praised by other countries for our response and efforts in combating it globally.

 

[kydmb99_rivals103809]

Not sure how any rational, sane human being can actually believe Trump has done a good job handling this. This has been an utterly epic failure by the federal government.

 

[Bill Derington]

Not sure how any rational, sane human being can actually believe Trump has done a good job handling this. This has been an utterly epic failure by the federal government.

How could any of this have been prevented? That’s a serious question, without completely isolating travel in and out?

 

[kydmb99_rivals103809]

How could any of this have been prevented? That’s a serious question, without completely isolating travel in and out?

do you think Trump has treated this with the seriousness it deserved from the beginning?

 

[Baller Cal]

do you think Trump has treated this with the seriousness it deserved from the beginning?

The head of The WHO said on February 3rd that there was no cause for alarm......yet some are holding Trump to a higher standard than the leader of the World Health Organization. LOL! Trump haters are making fools of themselves (for the umpteenth time.)

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

The WHO did not offer tests, that was flatly refuted by Dr Birx and Dr Fauci.

The CDC absolutely dropped the ball on testing, but when did we go from herd immunity as the plan to flattening the curve?
The Imperial college report that started all of this claimed 2.2 million could die if we didn’t flatten the curve. Only that wasn’t their original direction, it was that Herd immunity was the way to go.
It’s important to know when that thought process changed.

The govt set up the Aid shipment, it wasn’t govt aid, which is what you implied and even argued when I stated it was money sent on that date and the aid was shipped prior.

That is actually only half true. The director of WHO stated that while they weren't directly offered, they were made aware that if test were needed that WHO would be able to supply them. This was at a time when we had no test, and ,still so now, while we still have an extreme shortage. It would have been a huge benefit to have them. Would have saved lives. So it was effectively refusing them.

Well, we never supported the herd immunity, that was the UK. Any moron could have told them that would be a disaster. I think they are figuring that out now. Since Trump declared a health emergency in January, I would say if there was a desire to utilize that method, it was abandoned before then.

But the government did ship aid. Both donated and provided by the federal government. You just seem to be ignoring the later like it would somehow really make a difference that the federal government still knowingly gave up aid to a foreign country it blames for starting all of this, and is actively blocking investigators and being uncooperative. It was also after we had confirmed cases of our own, a known shortage of supplies and a national health emergency with travel restrictions declared a week earlier. But yea, the fact some of the supplies were donated to the government who then donated them to China is fine.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

How could any of this have been prevented? That’s a serious question, without completely isolating travel in and out?

We were always going to be impacted to a degree, but the impact could have been greatly weakened if competent leadership had been directing our response. Our leadership has failed us. It is why we currently have more cases than the 2nd and 3rd most countries combined. And that is very soon to be the next 3 combined. And we currently rank 3rd in overall deaths, quickly catching up to 2nd place.

If we can't control it, how are so many other countries like Singapore? South Korea? Germany? Canada? Austria? Australia? Russia? Japan? India? Mexico? Turkey? And those are just a few. Instead of admitting reality, you are convincing yourself that these other countries just aren't reporting accurately. But have you even considered that they are accurate? And that we are just an outlier because of our poor response time and effort? How will you feel about the administration and their response when that is the only logical conclusion left for you?

 

[Skyguyb27]

Trumps numbers have come back to where they were. They went up initially because he had convinced enough people at the time this wasn't that serious. However, after mounting evidence the contrary, he has since had to walk that back and admit more than 100,000 could die in the next few months alone. Also, his strongest campaign message of a strong economy is crashing and burning before his eyes. The only person undermining Trump is Trump himself.

Biden's numbers going up because every time he speaks he sounds like a leader with intelligent ideas and experience on handling a crisis like this. And that is saying something considering he isn't even that great of a speaker. However, he conveys empathy, respect, calmness, poise and leadership. That is what the country needs so badly.

Trump has failed every step of the way on this. Both sides have members who have tried to help and he hasn't listened or waited until it was too late. You can believe what you want, but the evidence proved something else entirely.

We are both Cats fans enough said.

 

[Skyguyb27]

LOL, who exactly is undermining him and how? This man gets more excuses made for his incompetence and habitual lying than any man alive.

When is the hard facts of Russian conspiracy gonna come out and be revealed again?

 

[thebluestripes]

Leadership starts at the top. If the president would set a good example, people might follow the lead and get in line. Instead we hear about his TV ratings, facebook and twitter follower counts, how governors need to be nice if they expect his help and so on. He attacks people he doesn't like and has literally made fun of political opponents who have been diagnosed or awaiting rest results to see of they do have it. None of that behavior is going to demonstrate to the general public that it is time to come together.


First, the swine flu did not kill 17,000 people. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated that H1N1 killed about 12,500 Americans between April 2009 and 2010, far fewer people than typically die each year from the flu. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there were about 60.8 million cases of infection with the novel type of influenza virus in the U.S. between April 2009 and April 2010, with a total of approximately 274,304 hospitalizations and 12,469 deaths. In fact, the death toll ended up being far lower than was initially expected because of the actions of the Obama administration. The strain of influenza also turned out to have a case fatality rate of just 0.02% — well below even many typical seasonal influenzas.

Second, the president’s characterization of the government’s response does not match reality. If anything, the response to H1N1 was swift in comparison to the current administration’s handling of the coronavirus.

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.

Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.

The test developed by the CDC was created quickly. It was accurate. And it was shared with governments around the world. The capacity of CDC at that point to make and develop and quickly turn out a test was vastly different than what is occurring with the coronavirus.

In an interview, Dr. Tom Frieden, who was CDC director, said testing for H1N1 and the United States’ willingness to share its test with other countries was a success. “I traveled all over the world and for years afterward even very hostile governments were saying thank you for sending it to us.”

Coronavirus testing, on the other hand, remains mired in delays. Though the first person in the United States was confirmed to have the virus on Jan. 20, a series of problems have kept testing out of reach for many patients with telltale symptoms of the virus. The CDC designed a flawed test for COVID-19, then it took weeks to figure out a fix so state and local labs could use it, ProPublica found. Trump said on March 6 that “anybody who wants a test gets a test,” but many doctors, patients and public health leaders say that is not the case.

On Wednesday, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican, said: “Testing is limited. It will, in all likelihood, remain limited.”

Almost from the day the H1N1 strain of flu was identified, researchers set out to develop a vaccine for it. Six days after the first case was identified in April 2009, the CDC began working to develop a candidate vaccine virus. Clinical trials began in July. And on Sept. 15, the Food and Drug Administration approved four 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines. The first doses of the vaccine were available in October, and by December, 100 million doses were available to be ordered.

Once it was manufactured, the vaccine was distributed widely. CDC arranged for 126.9 million doses of the vaccine to be shipped to tens of thousands of medical providers. All told, about 81 million U.S. residents were vaccinated, and the strain is now a regular part of annual flu shots.

There is no vaccine yet for the coronavirus. The disease is novel and appears to behave differently than the flu, so it will likely take longer to develop a vaccine. The first patients in a clinical trial of a vaccine were given shots this week. But Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, cautioned that the process may take a year or more.

“We’re close to starting a phase 1 trial to determine safety,” Fauci said recently on CNN. “We’re going to do that in about one and a half to two months. But that doesn’t mean you have a vaccine. In order to get a vaccine that’s practically deployable for people to use, it’s going to be at least a year to a year and a half at best.”

If Trump wants to learn from H1N1, he could start readying manufacturing capabilities right now, so once the coronavirus vaccine is proven to be safe and effective, there won’t be any delay.

One of the key lessons from H1N1 was the need for clear and honest communication, something they both faulted in the current coronavirus response. Obama’s administration reacted with alarm as cases of H1N1 were initially reported. Trump, by comparison, repeatedly reassured the public that everything was under control.

“From Day 1, [Obama] said: ‘We will be led by the facts. We need to tell people what we know and what we don’t know,’” Sebelius said. She said she and her team held twice-a-day press conferences to do that.

At one point, in June 2009, Obama invited experts who helped respond to the 1976 swine flu outbreak to a private meeting at the White House. He wanted to know “what went right and what went wrong. What do we need to learn, how do we need to do this,” Sebelius said.n“I haven’t seen any of that go on with this,” she added, referring to the coronavirus.

Asked to rate his response to the crisis on a scale of 1 to 10, Trump said on March 16: “I’d rate it a 10. I think we’ve done a great job. ... We were very, very, early with respect to China. And we would have a whole different situation in this country if we didn’t do that.”

Frieden said he’s been troubled by the fact that CDC officials haven’t played a more visible role in the crisis response. Instead of briefings led by CDC leaders, Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and others brief the media each day. “The biggest concern that I see now is the lack of CDC at the table when decisions are being made and at the podium when they’re being communicated,” Frieden said. “That is a really big mistake. That has not happened before.” “This is not the way to run a railroad. It might get better. We’ll see. I hope so. We all want them to succeed.”

Actually they are from ProPublica and factcheck.org, but attack the sources all you want. It is what your master teaches when all else fails.

Actually his rating have fallen the last few days, he is in the negative again and slipping. The more that die, the more he falls. However, Bidens numbers have been growing. And actually, I don't mind if Trump gets re-elected. I am greatly enjoying the **** show and watching the US burn.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/abc-news-coronavirus-poll

This KnowledgePanel survey conducted April 1-2, 2020 finds that 47% of Americans approve of the way Donald Trump is handling the response to the coronavirus, down from 55% two weeks ago and 51% in last week's ABC News/ Washington Post poll.

If you enjoy watchin the us burn as you said, then you really need to pack your bags and head to a country that you like better. We really don't need your kind here.

 

[Skyguyb27]

I'm bowing out, I respect everyone's right to see what they wanna see believe what they wanna believe. No one is gonna think differently from a forum. I'm here to.discuss UK.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

We are both Cats fans enough said.

Agreed!

 

[kybassfan]

Thank you for choosing to act like an adult in this situation. Truces are in order right now.

I always act like an adult. I don’t tolerate blatant stupidity. I am not politically correct. I have no time to be polite.

That said, we are in the midst of a horror and the worst is yet to come. I hope our friends in GA fare well.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

If you enjoy watchin the us burn as you said, then you really need to pack your bags and head to a country that you like better. We really don't need your kind here.

I don't enjoy it as a whole, but I am content with watching it under this administration. A good number of the people who are most impacted by this are the same ones who rushed to the polls to vote for someone unqualified and unfit to lead a country. Now they are facing the repurcussions firsthand of piss poor decision making, and I am enjoying getting to witness that. I hope people will wise up and make better decisions for themselves and our country next time around.

 

[Baller Cal]

When is the hard facts of Russian conspiracy gonna come out and be revealed again?

Democrats can lie and make up stuff and try to ruin your life but that doesn’t count to them. 2 sets of rules.

 

[SophiesDad]

its a calamity we are in, those most responsible that failed to handle it properly will attempt all sorts of misdirections. but lets never forget those told us: "its just the flu"

Pelosi and de Blasio are also on video saying very similar things. Hold your side accountable too