Why cancel the season?

[Bill Derington]

You do realize the US does not have a travel ban to and from China, right? They restricted it in some cases, but many loopholes still exist. And that was put in place Feb4th, not January, which is just when it was recommended. Now China does have a travel ban of anyone coming into their country, but that wasn't a US policy.

Also, Italy did implement a travel ban with China in January and they now lead globally in corona virus related deaths. But don't worry, we will catch them very soon and be 1st in global deaths related to it.
#winning

Italy also tested everyone until the end of February, and then stopped.

China lied about the severity of Covid, they wouldn’t let anyone in, as of January 14 the WHO was still stating the virus wasn’t transferable between people. Jan 31 travel is stopped from China unless you were an American, national health emergency declared, task force created.

 

[Bill Derington]

Actually, in the US we are seeing much higher numbers among younger people being impacted seriously by this disease. IIRC, we have the highest number of fatalities among younger age groups than any other country at this point.

H1N1 killed that many over a roughly 13 month period. We are now losing over 1000 a day just in the US alone from Covid 19. We will be over 6000 deaths total today, and we only had 1 death this time last month. Trump is even openly admitting we will have "done great" if we only lose 100,000, but he expects it could top 240,000 thousand. This is going to rival some wars for total casualties.

If you would’ve listened to Fauci and Birx in that press briefing is that is only a model, and the model presumes every state will be like NY and NJ.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

Italy also tested everyone until the end of February, and then stopped.

China lied about the severity of Covid, they wouldn’t let anyone in, as of January 14 the WHO was still stating the virus wasn’t transferable between people. Jan 31 travel is stopped from China unless you were an American, national health emergency declared, task force created.

No country is testing everyone as there aren't enough tests to do so. Even in the US it is still incredibly difficult to get tested.

Travel was never halted by the US between it and China. Several of the Airlines stopped their flights, not by government order but by their own. The government recommend it in January, but it wasn't until Feb 4th that the US actually restricted flights to China, but with several loopholes. However, China did stop all incoming travelers to their country several weeks ago. Also, Italy did ban travel to and from China before we did and it doesn't look to be that successful for them.

So we declared a national health emergency which the President downplayed and ignored repeatedly and he appointed a task force of experts which he constantly contradicts, disagrees with, talks over and ignores. Sounds really useful.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

If you would’ve listened to Fauci and Birx in that press briefing is that is only a model, and the model presumes every state will be like NY and NJ.

Actually it was one of 11 models. And considering we are now upwards of 1000 deceased per day, do you really think it is that inaccurate? Also, the president is literally saying if we lose less than 100,000 we will have done great, but that he expects it with be far more. So is he just lying now?

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

If you would’ve listened to Fauci and Birx in that press briefing is that is only a model, and the model presumes every state will be like NY and NJ.

Do you still believe the coronavirus is being overhyped for effect?

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

Italy is being extremely generous with their Covid death numbers, other countries with low death rates are only counting those that died from actual Covid related illness as Covid deaths. Germany and South Korea

NYC is following the Italy standard, if you die and test positive it falls under a Covid death.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/why-italy-coronavirus-deaths-so-high.html

This is false. There are significant numbers of deaths in Italy that are occurring outside of the hospitals and are due to respiratory failure. Because these individuals never made it to the hospital, they were never tested and are not counted as COVID-19 deaths.

From 2015-2019, the province of Bergamo averaged about 1,000 deaths each March. This March, there have been nearly 5,400 deaths. Of that 4,400 increase, only 2,060 deaths are confirmed COVID-19 cases.

The toll in Italy is much higher than what’s reported as confirmed deaths.

 

[Bill Derington]

This is false. There are significant numbers of deaths in Italy that are occurring outside of the hospitals and are due to respiratory failure. Because these individuals never made it to the hospital, they were never tested and are not counted as COVID-19 deaths.

From 2015-2019, the province of Bergamo averaged about 1,000 deaths each March. This March, there have been nearly 5,400 deaths. Of that 4,400 increase, only 2,060 deaths are confirmed COVID-19 cases.

The toll in Italy is much higher than what’s reported as confirmed deaths.

The article had quotes from Italian govt stating numbers were being over inflated, read the article.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...ferent-countries-calculating-death-tolls/amp/

“The Italian health system counts not only people who died directly from coronavirus but also who died with coronavirus, regardless of whether or not they were suffering from one or more serious diseases when they contracted it.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus,” said Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to the Italian government on the crisis.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he said. “

 

[Bill Derington]

No country is testing everyone as there aren't enough tests to do so. Even in the US it is still incredibly difficult to get tested.

Travel was never halted by the US between it and China. Several of the Airlines stopped their flights, not by government order but by their own. The government recommend it in January, but it wasn't until Feb 4th that the US actually restricted flights to China, but with several loopholes. However, China did stop all incoming travelers to their country several weeks ago. Also, Italy did ban travel to and from China before we did and it doesn't look to be that successful for them.

So we declared a national health emergency which the President downplayed and ignored repeatedly and he appointed a task force of experts which he constantly contradicts, disagrees with, talks over and ignores. Sounds really useful.

The govt stopped travel with China, the only people not affected was US citizens.

Italy tested at the same rates as South Korea until the end of February, and then they stopped. Countries are labeling deaths differently.

You don’t think the President is listening to the advisors on the committee? You should watch the briefings and not rely on news.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

The article had quotes from Italian govt stating numbers were being over inflated, read the article.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...ferent-countries-calculating-death-tolls/amp/

Do you have a different article with these quotes from the Italian govt? The one you linked only has quoted for professors at Temple and Michigan?

 

[Bill Derington]

Do you still believe the coronavirus is being overhyped for effect?

I believe there’s a lot of misinformation going around.

 

[Bill Derington]

Do you have a different article with these quotes from the Italian govt? The one you linked only has quoted for professors at Temple and Michigan?

I just posted it, and a direct quote from it.

 

[Bill Derington]

Actually it was one of 11 models. And considering we are now upwards of 1000 deceased per day, do you really think it is that inaccurate? Also, the president is literally saying if we lose less than 100,000 we will have done great, but that he expects it with be far more. So is he just lying now?

They stated that it was the number possible as of tgat day, that as data was added it would change.
As of now it’s heavily weighted to NY and NJ, the rest of the country isn’t as tightly knit as the NYC area.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

The govt stopped travel with China, the only people not affected was US citizens.

Italy tested at the same rates as South Korea until the end of February, and then they stopped. Countries are labeling deaths differently.

You don’t think the President is listening to the advisors on the committee? You should watch the briefings and not rely on news.

The US govt has never stopped travel with China. They restricted it, but left many loopholes. China has banned all incoming travel to their country, but that is not the US issuing a travel ban to China. We have banned travel to other countries, mostly middle eastern and African countries, but not China. Maybe you could provide us some proof of this alleged China ban you are saying exist??

No, I don't. Which is why a few days ago he was saying he wanted the country up and going again by Easter and that we needed to start opening some states back up. Then just a couple days later was claiming 100,000 - 240,000 would likely die. That was around the time he was comparing his TV ratings with the Bachelor.

So you are saying we are 3rd because of how other countries are "labeling" their dead? And that we wouldn't really be double the next 2 countries combined if everyone was "testing" the same way? LOL, can you provide any evidence of this?


I have watched them all, which is why myself and others on here seem to be more aware of what is actually going on.

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

The article had quotes from Italian govt stating numbers were being over inflated, read the article.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...ferent-countries-calculating-death-tolls/amp/

“The Italian health system counts not only people who died directly from coronavirus but also who died with coronavirus, regardless of whether or not they were suffering from one or more serious diseases when they contracted it.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus,” said Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to the Italian government on the crisis.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he said. “

As your article states, they’re only counting hospital deaths as COVID-19 deaths. There are significant numbers of people dying in nursing homes or private residences before getting to the hospital and therefore are not counted.

Last week, I posted what the mayors of the various Italian towns were reporting about this in the main COVID thread.

Coincidentally, the WSJ just ran an article on this yesterday. Deaths in Bergamo this March are nearly 5.5x higher than the average number of March deaths over the previous 5 years. That’s a massive spike and less than 50% of that spike is currently counted as COVID related.

The Italy numbers are clearly under reported.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported-11585767179

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

The article had quotes from Italian govt stating numbers were being over inflated, read the article.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...ferent-countries-calculating-death-tolls/amp/

“The Italian health system counts not only people who died directly from coronavirus but also who died with coronavirus, regardless of whether or not they were suffering from one or more serious diseases when they contracted it.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus,” said Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to the Italian government on the crisis.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he said. “

Seems like most countries that have been reporting it are doing it in the same manner. The virus was likely a contributing factor to their death. We are all going to die of something at some point, but would they have died at that time without contracting the virus? If not, then that would justifiably being a contributing cause of death, correct? That is basically what this disease does. It attacks people the hardest who already have underlying health issues. So how is it inflating the numbers by doing so? If anything, the numbers are likely to be lower than what is actually accurate. Italy hospitals are overwhelmed and are literally choosing who can even get treatment based on likelihood of survival. So what about all the cases of people who aren't getting tested because they aren't able to get into a hospital and are dying at home? Those would also contribute as well.

 

[Bill Derington]

The US govt has never stopped travel with China. They restricted it, but left many loopholes. China has banned all incoming travel to their country, but that is not the US issuing a travel ban to China. We have banned travel to other countries, mostly middle eastern and African countries, but not China. Maybe you could provide us some proof of this alleged China ban you are saying exist??

No, I don't. Which is why a few days ago he was saying he wanted the country up and going again by Easter and that we needed to start opening some states back up. Then just a couple days later was claiming 100,000 - 240,000 would likely die. That was around the time he was comparing his TV ratings with the Bachelor.

So you are saying we are 3rd because of how other countries are "labeling" their dead? And that we wouldn't really be double the next 2 countries combined if everyone was "testing" the same way? LOL, can you provide any evidence of this?


I have watched them all, which is why myself and others on here seem to be more aware of what is actually going on.

The reason given for a South Korea having low numbers is due to testing, yet Italy tested at the same rate early on, why didn’t they have similar results?
South Korea and Germany don’t have the same standard as Italy on Covid deaths, they have low numbers and Italy has high numbers.
We absolutely did limit travel from China in January, also stopped travel from Europe later on, not really sure why you brought up Africa and Middle East, probably trying to make it racist I imagine.
Trump did want to open up areas by Easter, he listened to the advisors and extended it.

The ratings quote was clearly a slap in the face of the media cutting away from the briefings.

 

[Bill Derington]

As your article states, they’re only counting hospital deaths as COVID-19 deaths. There are significant numbers of people dying in nursing homes or private residences before getting to the hospital and therefore are not counted.

Last week, I posted what the mayors of the various Italian towns were reporting about this in the main COVID thread.

Coincidentally, the WSJ just ran an article on this yesterday. Deaths in Bergamo this March are nearly 5.5x higher than the average number of March deaths over the previous 5 years. That’s a massive spike and less than 50% of that spike is currently counted as COVID related.

The Italy numbers are clearly under reported.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported-11585767179

That’s not what the Italian scientific advisor to the Govt stated.

 

[Bill Derington]

Seems like most countries that have been reporting it are doing it in the same manner. The virus was likely a contributing factor to their death. We are all going to die of something at some point, but would they have died at that time without contracting the virus? If not, then that would justifiably being a contributing cause of death, correct? That is basically what this disease does. It attacks people the hardest who already have underlying health issues. So how is it inflating the numbers by doing so? If anything, the numbers are likely to be lower than what is actually accurate. Italy hospitals are overwhelmed and are literally choosing who can even get treatment based on likelihood of survival. So what about all the cases of people who aren't getting tested because they aren't able to get into a hospital and are dying at home? Those would also contribute as well.

Do we always label deaths that way? If someone dies of something from an underlying condition, but tests positive for the flu are they a flu death?
In Italy and the US they’re being labeled as Covid deaths, in Germany, and South Korea they aren’t.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

The reason given for a South Korea having low numbers is due to testing, yet Italy tested at the same rate early on, why didn’t they have similar results?
South Korea and Germany don’t have the same standard as Italy on Covid deaths, they have low numbers and Italy has high numbers.
We absolutely did limit travel from China in January, also stopped travel from Europe later on, not really sure why you brought up Africa and Middle East, probably trying to make it racist I imagine.
Trump did want to open up areas by Easter, he listened to the advisors and extended it.

South Korea took necessary precautions early on. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...-in-addition-to-wearing-face-masks-2020-03-31

Germany is seeing a rise and is expected to rise considerably, but they also addressed it early on and took it seriously. We did not.

I said we have limited travel with China, but it was never banned as you suggested multiple times it was. Glad you agree now. I brought up Africa and the middle east because that is where most of the countries we did ban travel to early on were. Can you point to where I ever brought up race? I am sorry basic geography offends you so much.

If he was listening he never would have said it in the first place. Along with countless other dumb **** he says or tweets. There was a bad outbreak at a church in the south were several members have died. The pastor literally said he only continued to hold services because of what Trump was saying about it. He has botched this to the point we are going to have more people deceased from this than any other country and God only knows how many times the confirmed cases. I do wonder though, when we are not only the worst in total # of cases, but deaths as well, will his supporters still claim a job well done? Like, he will have literally ranked worst among every other country and world leader in response and impact. It will be really interesting to witness.

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

That’s not what the Italian scientific advisor to the Govt stated.

No, that is what he said.

More importantly, the numbers back this up. The total number of people dying in Italy has jumped massively and most of these deaths are patients who didn’t get swabbed in a hospital and therefore aren’t counted as COVID deaths.

France has the exact same issue and is building a new system to enable them to start counting deaths that occur outside hospitals in their reported numbers.

The Italy numbers are under reported and significantly so.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...-appears-higher-than-official-figures-suggest

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

Do we always label deaths that way? If someone dies of something from an underlying condition, but tests positive for the flu are they a flu death?
In Italy and the US they’re being labeled as Covid deaths, in Germany, and South Korea they aren’t.

Most of the time. If you wouldn't die at the time if you didn't get that disease or ailment, pretty good bet the cause of that death was related to it. If I have a disease but I am existing fine with treatment and not expected to die anytime soon, but then suddenly contract a virus and die a few days later, what would you say is the likely cause?

Where are you getting this info? Can you please source it for us?

 

[Bill Derington]

South Korea took necessary precautions early on. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...-in-addition-to-wearing-face-masks-2020-03-31

Germany is seeing a rise and is expected to rise considerably, but they also addressed it early on and took it seriously. We did not.

I said we have limited travel with China, but it was never banned as you suggested multiple times it was. Glad you agree now. I brought up Africa and the middle east because that is where most of the countries we did ban travel to early on were. Can you point to where I ever brought up race? I am sorry basic geography offends you so much.

If he was listening he never would have said it in the first place. Along with countless other dumb **** he says or tweets. There was a bad outbreak at a church in the south were several members have died. The pastor literally said he only continued to hold services because of what Trump was saying about it. He has botched this to the point we are going to have more people deceased from this than any other country and God only knows how many times the confirmed cases. I do wonder though, when we are not only the worst in total # of cases, but deaths as well, will his supporters still claim a job well done? Like, he will have literally ranked worst among every other country and world leader in response and impact. It will be really interesting to witness.

Listen, I’m not upset, but there was absolutely no reason for you to throw in Africa and the Middle East, we are talking about Covid 19 restrictions.
No one has botched this, do you believe China’s numbers? Are you not upset that they withheld crucial data and lied about the virus until at least the middle of January?
We will have the most cases, because we are testing more, you think South Korea’s numbers just magically stopped at the same number, why hell no.
How will he have done a worse job than any other leader, serious question.

Do you know what Fauci and his advisors were saying to him prior to March, because in as late as January, Fauci didn’t seem to worried about it.

Also the Italian numbers are crucial, as that’s what we panicked over.

 

[Bill Derington]

No, that is what he said.

More importantly, the numbers back this up. The total number of people dying in Italy has jumped massively and most of these deaths are patients who didn’t get swabbed in a hospital and therefore aren’t counted as COVID deaths.

France has the exact same issue and is building a new system to enable them to start counting deaths that occur outside hospitals in their reported numbers.

The Italy numbers are under reported and significantly so.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...-appears-higher-than-official-figures-suggest

That isn’t what he said, in fact he stated the opposite, that Italian numbers were overinflated. That only 12% of the Covid deaths actually died of Covid related symptoms.

 

[Bill Derington]

Most of the time. If you wouldn't die at the time if you didn't get that disease or ailment, pretty good bet the cause of that death was related to it. If I have a disease but I am existing fine with treatment and not expected to die anytime soon, but then suddenly contract a virus and die a few days later, what would you say is the likely cause?

Where are you getting this info? Can you please source it for us?

Germany has approx 80000 cases and approx. 900 deaths.
Italy has 114000 cases and 13000 deaths, something doesn’t add up.

If you multiply Italy’s deaths by the 12% the Italian govt advisor stated as actual Covid related Symptoms causing death, then their death numbers fall in line with Germany’s 900, approx 1680 would be the Italian deaths. So the way you label deaths is obviously relevant to how the country reacts to crisis.

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

That isn’t what he said, in fact he stated the opposite, that Italian numbers were overinflated. That only 12% of the Covid deaths actually died of Covid related symptoms.

He also said they only count hospital deaths.

You’re also completely misinterpreting the 12% quote. Perhaps you should re-read the original article that include that quote which was from about a week ago, rather than the more recent article you linked where they re-used the quote.

But to be clear, the number of Italian deaths in areas hit by COVID is 4-5 times higher than average and less than half of the increased deaths are counted as COVID deaths.

And you are sticking with the assertion that COVID is over reported and therefore this massive spike in deaths is not caused by COVID and is merely a coincidence. Is that an accurate summation of your stance?

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

You still believe that Trump colluded with Russia? You realize Hilary is the one who paid a foreign intelligence officer to get information from Russia on Trump? I noticed how you said you read everything you could about the investigations but didn’t mention your sources or the details in them that led you to believe something that was a hoax and a coverup from day 1. A dem telling me I can’t tell what is real and what’s not while they believe what the likes of CNN, MSNBC, ABC, and CBS have been spoon feeding them propaganda is hilarious.

I appreciate your efforts , but just let them stay dark , uninformed , and angry .

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

For anyone who’s interested, here’s the original article that quote Walter Ricciardi, the Italian adviser that Bill is so enamored with. It’s from a week ago.

Below is the full section regarding the 12% quote. You can make up your own mind if Bill is understanding it correctly.

Regardless of the 12% piece, the bigger is issue is that non-hospital deaths are not being counted.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions.​

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...se/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Hey @UKnCincy , whats your opinion on the part of our society that is adamant that the gov. can't force these stay in place orders as its an infringement on their constitutional rights. I know my response because I'm around a bunch of them and I looked into it as best I could.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

Listen, I’m not upset, but there was absolutely no reason for you to throw in Africa and the Middle East, we are talking about Covid 19 restrictions.
No one has botched this, do you believe China’s numbers? Are you not upset that they withheld crucial data and lied about the virus until at least the middle of January?
We will have the most cases, because we are testing more, you think South Korea’s numbers just magically stopped at the same number, why hell no.
How will he have done a worse job than any other leader, serious question.

Do you know what Fauci and his advisors were saying to him prior to March, because in as late as January, Fauci didn’t seem to worried about it.

Also the Italian numbers are crucial, as that’s what we panicked over.

Those are the Regions those countires are in. That is all that was being said. Somehow, in your mind, you twisted that to something about race. That's on you bud. I don't know what to tell you.

The US federal government, mainly Trump since he runs it, has completely botched this. We aren't testing more. In fact, it is still incredibly difficult to get tested in the US unless you meet certain criteria. However, SK, Gemany and others have been doing mass testing since Jan and Feb. They were able to detect and eradicate it those infected very early, as well as detect potential hot spots to curb. We did none of those things. SK advocated for all their citizens to wear masks, which we were told would not help. Come to find out, that was incorrect.

China reported this in December. Hell, it was on the news on NY Eve. Do I think they dropped the ball? Absolutely, but we had almost 2 months warning and did the bare minimum. We had experts telling us how bad this would get and Trump was saying it was just an exaggeration by the democrats and media to hurt his presidency. He was holding rallies, playing golf and tweeting away instead of adequately preparing this country. Why were we providing necessary supplies to other countries?

Italy has a significantly older population and will have higher numbers. Their relation to ours is minimal in this. We are going to make Italy look mild in a couple of weeks.

You mean this Dr. Fauci?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dr-an...-in-front-of-the-microphone-and-push-him-down

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...-tries-make-white-house-listen-facts-pandemic

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

Germany has approx 80000 cases and approx. 900 deaths.
Italy has 114000 cases and 13000 deaths, something doesn’t add up.

If you multiply Italy’s deaths by the 12% the Italian govt advisor stated as actual Covid related Symptoms causing death, then their death numbers fall in line with Germany’s 900, approx 1680 would be the Italian deaths. So the way you label deaths is obviously relevant to how the country reacts to crisis.

OMG!! Now you aren't even making sense.

Italy was horribly prepared for this and has a significantly older population, 2nd only to Japan. Can you please cite an article where someone claims that Italy really has only lost 1680 people have died of Covid 19? Pretty, pretty please? I really want to read it. I know you are going to jump back to that article you posted earlier, but that is literally not at all what it said or insinuated. It just referenced that only 12% of the death certificates had listed Covid 9 as the sole cause of death with no other contributing factors. And yet you wonder why so much false info is out there. Here's a hint.... it's because people like you, who have no clue what they are taking about is spreading it.

No one is labeling it the way you claim. You don't seem to be getting that.

 

[UK90]

And you are sticking with the assertion that COVID is over reported and therefore this massive spike in deaths is not caused by COVID and is merely a coincidence. Is that an accurate summation of your stance?

He is indeed. It amazes me that on April 2, with all we've seen the last couple weeks, that there are still these people out there pushing the idea that this crisis is being overblown.

Even all the right wing commentators who started that irresponsible narrative have now backtracked, retracted and changed their tune ...but, unfortunately, a whole bunch of the people who believed them are still singing it.

 

[AirRaidFreshman76]

You do realize the US does not have a travel ban to and from China, right? They restricted it in some cases, but many loopholes still exist. And that was put in place Feb4th, not January, which is just when it was recommended. Now China does have a travel ban of anyone coming into their country, but that wasn't a US policy.

Also, Italy did implement a travel ban with China in January and they now lead globally in corona virus related deaths. But don't worry, we will catch them very soon and be 1st in global deaths related to it.
#winning

boy I'd hate to be one of you all who rely on the government to solve every problem for you must be a miserable way to go through life. Follow common sense common courtesy precautions and 99 percent chance you're not even gonna catch this thing

oh and stay out of New York City that's another thing you should do as a matter of course anyway

 

[nssdigitalchumps]

Keep in mind, Italy has a higher number of seniors than most countries. I think Japan and China are up there too.

 

[Big Blue Yeti]

boy I'd hate to be one of you all who rely on the government to solve every problem for you must be a miserable way to go through life. Follow common sense common courtesy precautions and 99 percent chance you're not even gonna catch this thing

What problem do I need the government to solve for me again?

Also, this a virus, this will exist for years to come, likely forever. Most people will get and far over 1% of the global population already has it, most just don't know it. Ideally, you want as many people as possible to get it in a controlled manner, as to build up antibodies without overwhelming hospitals.

 

[Bill Derington]

For anyone who’s interested, here’s the original article that quote Walter Ricciardi, the Italian adviser that Bill is so enamored with. It’s from a week ago.

Below is the full section regarding the 12% quote. You can make up your own mind if Bill is understanding it correctly.

Regardless of the 12% piece, the bigger is issue is that non-hospital deaths are not being counted.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions.​

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...se/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/

You’re cherry picking, intentionally.

Here’s a quote from the article I posted.

“Italy has reported more than 11,000 deaths from coronavirus, more than any other country in the world.

But experts say the number may be inflated because of the way in which fatalities are recorded.”

 

[Bill Derington]

OMG!! Now you aren't even making sense.

Italy was horribly prepared for this and has a significantly older population, 2nd only to Japan. Can you please cite an article where someone claims that Italy really has only lost 1680 people have died of Covid 19? Pretty, pretty please? I really want to read it. I know you are going to jump back to that article you posted earlier, but that is literally not at all what it said or insinuated. It just referenced that only 12% of the death certificates had listed Covid 9 as the sole cause of death with no other contributing factors. And yet you wonder why so much false info is out there. Here's a hint.... it's because people like you, who have no clue what they are taking about is spreading it.

No one is labeling it the way you claim. You don't seem to be getting that.

No, you don’t understand what I’m stating.
Germany has 81000 cases and 900 deaths. They aren’t claiming Covid deaths in the same way Italy is.
By Italy’s own governmental advisors words, only 12% of their deaths are actual Covid related symptoms deaths. So, you take 12% of multiplied by their total deaths and it’s approx 1700 deaths with actual Covid related symptoms. Which is online with Germany’s numbers.
We shutdown our entire economy based on Italian numbers. Aren’t you the least bit curious as to how 2 countries that border each other, and have similar numbers in cases but the deaths are not anywhere similar?

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

You’re cherry picking, intentionally.

Here’s a quote from the article I posted.

“Italy has reported more than 11,000 deaths from coronavirus, more than any other country in the world.

But experts say the number may be inflated because of the way in which fatalities are recorded.”

“Experts” is not Walter Ricciardi, the Italian advisor we were actively discussing.

I selected the portion of the article that dealt specifically with what he was quoted as saying since we were also actively discussing the 12% figure that you do not understand how to interpret.

That’s not cherry picking. That’s staying on topic.

 

[Bill Derington]

He is indeed. It amazes me that on April 2, with all we've seen the last couple weeks, that there are still these people out there pushing the idea that this crisis is being overblown.

Even all the right wing commentators who started that irresponsible narrative have now backtracked, retracted and changed their tune ...but, unfortunately, a whole bunch of the people who believed them are still singing it.

I don’t take my belief or thought process from the media or politicians. I simply look at the evidence, and the numbers don’t add up.

 

[Bill Derington]

“Experts” is not Walter Ricciardi, the Italian advisor we were actively discussing.

I selected the portion of the article that dealt specifically with what he was quoted as saying since we were also actively discussing the 12% figure that you do not understand how to interpret.

That’s not cherry picking. That’s staying on topic.

That wasn’t the article I posted. That is cherry picking.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I’m not angry. How am I uninformed because I don’t believe what the mainstream media says after countless examples of them lying and twisting the narrative time and time again? Okay. This isn’t just about Trump. They’ve been doing this for decades. I just like the fact he actually has the balls to expose a lot of their garbage.

Hey SD -- you misunderstood my comment . I said let them .... meaning the leftist idiots .