Every legislator who says "Let the voters decide" and "No comment" are against changing the flag in my eyes. I get they are scared of their supporters who still cling to the confederacy, but they need to be scared of constituents like me who will be voting for their primary opponent in the next election.
Where legislature stands on changing flag
- Thread starter o_dawgnabit
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Exactly! You got it. Delbert is following the orders and desires from the large majority of his party. The orders are “We do NOT want to go on the record and vote on this issue. Bury it in committee.”
Most (but not all) of the Republicans WANT it to change. They are tired of dealing with the drama. They don’t like the negative attention and economic hardship it brings the state. They want this issue totally off the table. But these people are political swamp creatures. They know that voting to change could be a big negative with 15% of their base voting block. That’s enough to potentially swing a primary to someone else.
So they are angling for the ideal. They want a voter referendum whose result ends in CHANGE. That solves the problem. And gives themselves complete political cover. “We let the people decide.” But this strategy is too high risk. As I’ve said, if the vote ends to keep it, it will be 10+ years before it’s reconsidered again. And there is no lock that the flag will CHANGE in a referendum. Honestly, it gets less likely every day as more incidents of George Washington and Teddy Roosevelt statues get torn down. These type incidents will swing more and more people to, vote KEEP simply to stick it to the anarchist creeps.
Most (but not all) of the Republicans WANT it to change. They are tired of dealing with the drama. They don’t like the negative attention and economic hardship it brings the state. They want this issue totally off the table. But these people are political swamp creatures. They know that voting to change could be a big negative with 15% of their base voting block. That’s enough to potentially swing a primary to someone else.
So they are angling for the ideal. They want a voter referendum whose result ends in CHANGE. That solves the problem. And gives themselves complete political cover. “We let the people decide.” But this strategy is too high risk. As I’ve said, if the vote ends to keep it, it will be 10+ years before it’s reconsidered again. And there is no lock that the flag will CHANGE in a referendum. Honestly, it gets less likely every day as more incidents of George Washington and Teddy Roosevelt statues get torn down. These type incidents will swing more and more people to, vote KEEP simply to stick it to the anarchist creeps.
COWARDS! I would ask how they sleep at night but they are politicians, so being an actual human left most of them long ago...
You are right! It will be political suicide for the careers of most of these folks to vote KEEP! If not immediately, certainly within a matter of just a few years. It will be a stain on their record for decades to come. A career ender. Very few will cast a vote to KEEP knowing this fact as they certainly do.
I would like to think you are right, but I certainly don't share your confidence.
What I’m not confident in is that they’ll actually bring it to a floor vote. I suspect it’s most likely that they won’t. But if forced to vote, I 100% know how it would go. At absolute worst, would be a bunch of Republicans voting “Present” and continuing to declare, “The people should decide!! I can’t cast a vote either way in good conscience!”
Profiles in Courage: Politicians. Let's not pretend that it's any different as they all pander to their base without consideration for right or wrong. In this case, I think the Republicans will find that they have substantially misread the desires of their base.
It’s a total misreading of the polls. It is true that if it goes to the polls, a majority of the republican base will probably vote to keep the flag. Which will mean a close vote overall and could go either way. So that’s all they see. But a majority of people will be voting just out of stubborn, “nobody’s going to tell us what to do.” If you polled on how big an issue it was and if your legislator voted CHANGE, how it would impact you supporting them going forward, it would be a low number. It’s just not an issue that moves the dial as a critical issue for large numbers of people. There will be very few people with the attitude of, “I’ll remember his you voted on this!! for those legislators who vote CHANGE.
Most of the state legislators are trying to pull a Roger Wicker. Sit in the back, don't say anything that will offend anybody, vote as you're told, and in 20 years collect your retirement.
I am very sad for my home state.....
I was born and raised in MS. I do not currently live there but I am still deeply connected, still dearly love my home state and have always been proud to say I am from Mississippi. But once again we find ourselves with our backs against the wall being unwilling or unable to proactively make an inevitable change without outside pressure. I liken this whole situation to this. Imagine you have your life savings invested in a business and you determine that a large portion of your customer base has a negative perception of your business due to its trademark or logo. It would not matter what you thought about it or even if you believed those customers are wrong. You would change it faster than two gars could skin a minnow. Well the State of MS is a business in competition with other states for a lot more things than just sports events and is the state going to let a frigging flag hold it back? This thing should have been taken care of 20 years ago. Now even when it is a foregone conclusion that it will change we have largely lost control of the narrative because now it will be said we were forced to change. We have long missed the opportunity to build goodwill and are now left with trying to minimize the damage. Now we are faced with the embarrassing spectacle of watching our high achieving sports teams being forced to go on the road instead of playing in front of our fans. Did we not learn ANYTHING as a state in 1963? If we continue to drag this out the next step will be that teams from MS will be barred from participating in post season which will be moot at that point because recruiting and our chances to compete will be already dead. Living in another state I obviously have many friends and associates from outside MS. I have yet to meet one, of any political stripe, that has not found it incredulous that MS still allows this albatross to hang around its neck. For God's sake get this done now!
I was born and raised in MS. I do not currently live there but I am still deeply connected, still dearly love my home state and have always been proud to say I am from Mississippi. But once again we find ourselves with our backs against the wall being unwilling or unable to proactively make an inevitable change without outside pressure. I liken this whole situation to this. Imagine you have your life savings invested in a business and you determine that a large portion of your customer base has a negative perception of your business due to its trademark or logo. It would not matter what you thought about it or even if you believed those customers are wrong. You would change it faster than two gars could skin a minnow. Well the State of MS is a business in competition with other states for a lot more things than just sports events and is the state going to let a frigging flag hold it back? This thing should have been taken care of 20 years ago. Now even when it is a foregone conclusion that it will change we have largely lost control of the narrative because now it will be said we were forced to change. We have long missed the opportunity to build goodwill and are now left with trying to minimize the damage. Now we are faced with the embarrassing spectacle of watching our high achieving sports teams being forced to go on the road instead of playing in front of our fans. Did we not learn ANYTHING as a state in 1963? If we continue to drag this out the next step will be that teams from MS will be barred from participating in post season which will be moot at that point because recruiting and our chances to compete will be already dead. Living in another state I obviously have many friends and associates from outside MS. I have yet to meet one, of any political stripe, that has not found it incredulous that MS still allows this albatross to hang around its neck. For God's sake get this done now!
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If they send it to vote in November I will likely vote straight Democrat and for the new flag just to get my $0.02 in on their cowardice. In other words, I’m as conservative fiscally and socially as they come but I’m sick of spineless politicians. At this point Tate is fully justifying my first Democratic vote ever when I pulled the lever for Hood last go around.
It was 60-40 to keep it last time I think. It would be closer but if the people vote on it still stays. Then you can get ready for a whole host of things coming in response. The NCAA and the SEC will almost certainly ban members from playing in the state. I would expect in the very near future to see federal money coming to the state be curtailed and eventually eliminated. there will be a lot more things. The flag WILL be changed, sooner rather than later.
I know it sounds lame, but this is an instance where reaching out to your State Reps can have a big impact. You guys need to email or call your representatives in Jackson and tell them you want it changed.
It doesn’t take a ton of those calls to start moving the needle.
If you’ve taken the time to reach out, I want to thank you. And MSU thanks you. And Starkville thanks you.
It doesn’t take a ton of those calls to start moving the needle.
If you’ve taken the time to reach out, I want to thank you. And MSU thanks you. And Starkville thanks you.
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I don't think they care about the desires of their base. They've been told what to do by the lobbyists so long that the base isn't much of a consideration any more. Voting them out sounds good until the good ol boys load up with millions of character assassination dollars lined up against anyone that dare to run against their puppet.
The fact remains that Hoseman had the opportunity to show a spine and deal with this issue, yet he chose instinctively to play politics. For any of you that had hopes of maybe our next governor being an exception, your hopes are now dashed. Haley has his puppets lined up and unless we term limit one of them, they'll be lined up for a long time to come.
Spot on, thekimmer! And your smart analysis is why the legislature needs to take it up instead of having a referendum. If this was just a choice between competing flag designs, then this would be fine. But this has complicated economics, business, athletics, racial dynamics in play. Many of which the average voter doesn’t fully appreciate or understand. This is a grown up big boy decision the legislature needs to make and handle. This is what we elect a legislature for.
I think it could swing either way in a popular vote. You will have another generation of voters in the mix than in 2001 plus in 2001 there was not the issue involved of not getting any NCAA baseball or WBB tourney games in the state without a flag change. Might depend on how many blacks actually turn out and vote on the matter.
Just take an actual look at Gulfport, the second largest (by population) city in the state. It has a seven person city council, currently occupied by 5 Republicans, and 2 Democrats. The vote to remove the state flag from city buildings passed 7-0, and they also passed a resolution requesting the state legislature change the flag (also 7-0). And I expect the 5 Republicans on that council considered the prospect of reelection, but still took the vote, and did so in public.
Biloxi's mayor unilaterally removed the flag about 4 years ago because he couldn't get the council to vote it. Kudos to him as well.
The Coast is a major economic driver for this state, but we are constantly stuck dragging the anchor of an aircraft carrier around our ankle that is the rest of this state, that prevents us from moving forward. It is long past time for the lower counties of both Alabama and Mississippi to break away and reform West Florida, and then watch the rest of the state wallow in their antiquated "heritage," while they suck on the teat of the federal government to survive.
Republic of West Florida for those of you who don't know:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Florida
Biloxi's mayor unilaterally removed the flag about 4 years ago because he couldn't get the council to vote it. Kudos to him as well.
The Coast is a major economic driver for this state, but we are constantly stuck dragging the anchor of an aircraft carrier around our ankle that is the rest of this state, that prevents us from moving forward. It is long past time for the lower counties of both Alabama and Mississippi to break away and reform West Florida, and then watch the rest of the state wallow in their antiquated "heritage," while they suck on the teat of the federal government to survive.
Republic of West Florida for those of you who don't know:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Florida
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Agreed. Not only is it the legislatures job to decide this the fact is we do not have the time to waste getting a referendum teed up. We are dangerously close to doing serious, long-lasting damage. I don't care if they replace it with a pair of Ron Polk's used boxer shorts as long as they get the job done and now!
The vote was actually 65/35 in favor of the current flag in 2001. I think the vote would be closer in 2020 maybe 55/45, but i DO NOT trust the voters of Mississippi with this issue.
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