He choked, because it shouldn't take thirty missed 3's to realize you should be doing something else.
Obviously you're as dense as he is.
We should feel embarrassed right now
- Thread starter FatCatMan
- Start date
Obviously you're as dense as he is.
"Hey Jeff, please stop with the injury excuse, it hurts my agenda when you talk about facts"
Jeff, take up another hobby you don’t understand basketball. A True Basketball Benny. Stop trying to debate you not very good at that either. Another guy sitting at a keyboard trying to prove his intelligence proved by almost 50K messages on this site alone.
IKR? Everybody knows it takes at least 3 years to build a program in the NIL portal era.
Jeff: " I'm just going to talk to myself in the 3rd person, and parrot the same muh facts line to deflect from adressing the other posters points."
Yeah, we all get that.
The frustration is, we can see the writing on the wall, it's obvious. Next year is going to SUUUUUCK. So we know we have to eat a sh*t sandwich next year no ketchup, and we're not looking forward to it. Gaslighting fans who've given up hope only pisses them off.
This is a horrible situation for BBN because probably the only solution is for both factions to retreat to their corners until the end of next season, which will hopefully be mercifully short.
Unfortunately this is a forum and those who are frustrated feel the need to vent, and those with an opposing position will object, and both sides will attack the others' fandom, and chaos will ensue.
I don't see a good way around it, honestly.
And it's ALL MITCH'S FAULT.
Your last statement probably won’t be as true as you think. Those who want a yr 3 will probably see a sweet 16 or elite 8 as cause to remain whereas those like myself who know his dismissal to be inevitable, won’t accept those results.
So, in your opinion, losing Jaland Lowe isn't a big deal?Jeff: " I'm just going to talk to myself in the 3rd person, and parrot the same muh facts line to deflect from adressing the other posters points."
Playing Garrison, instead of JQ is a good thing?
Losing kam Williams for 2 months didn’t hurt the team at all?
Yeah, go back to playing NBA2k.
Losing Kam didn’t hurt that bad. JQ is the one that hurt the most, imo. But we all knew there was a chance that he wouldn’t get to play from the beginning. I’m not so sure about Lowe either. We lost some games that he played significant minutes in. He is hard to judge since he came from a bad Pittsburgh team.
If getting an elite eight won’t satisfy you, Pope isn’t the problem.
Take your logical conclusion and apply it to the next coaching search. I’ll bet you wave a magic wand and that rationale suddenly doesn’t apply there right?
Kam wasn’t a huge loss, but he was really starting to round the corner and he brought more to the table than Jelevic amd Mo.
Lowe was never healthy, I don't even.onow how he was able to play the minutes he did play, but he showed what he could do in that St Johns game, they couldn’t guard him.
JQ is a huge loss.
Just think, instead of playing Lowe, we get Jasper Johnson.
Instead of playing JQ, we get Garrison.
And I'd rather play Kam than the other 2, no question.
Lowe is tough for trying to play with that injury so I give him props for that. I’m just not so sure how we would have done with those guys because pope was very odd with his lineups this season. Could have been because of injuries but idk.
YAh,
Or you csn go with 4 guards.
One thing's for sure, keeping Johnson off the court, is a huge plus.
yeah, the substitution patterns were awful, but with Lowe, you get DA at the 2, Oweh at the 3 and Chandler can come in for any of the 3.
Or you csn go with 4 guards.
One thing's for sure, keeping Johnson off the court, is a huge plus.
Why are you bringing up Calipari? He was ran out of here due to those issues. What does he have to do with mark pope not being fit for the UK job. You run Calipari out you hire better then he was, Mark pope is nowhere near his league. What in the world is this?
It was a sight to behold. I saw his final game at Rupp Arena against Auburn and Wesley Person. Amazing game. Great memory.I was that same kid in the late Pitino years and early Tubby years! Wish I was old enough to have witnessed Mash!
Mashburn could do it all. Inside and out.
The Fox, Monk, and Bam team was tough. I also liked the PJ Washington and Herro squad. Those teams at least had a legitimate chance for a title.
We haven't been elite or truly sniffed relevancy for yrs.
Well, to be fair, you’re only telling half the story of what I said. If you’re satisfied with a sweet 16 next year after the single worst job in NIL-era (defined by budget/success), I hate to tell you whom the problem is.
But yeah, Pope needs to show me more than an Elite 8 next year. See, it’s pretty clear to me he should be gone after this season.
Your response proves my original point, if you read my earlier message.
The Pope siders will keep moving the goalposts and call us crazy for a lack of patience.
No. I haven’t moved a thing from the moment he stepped to the podium. I need an elite eight to know he’s the guy. Period.
Huh? The point is the next coach won’t have this baggage attached to himself. We need a big ego coach who isn’t scared off take the job because Mark Pope was unqualified.
I think to know we can continue to see, we need an elite 8 at least. But this is getting worse. Finding a way through a boat show lane and landing an elite 8, of course you can’t fire. I probably still would for several reasons, but nah won’t happen. But Bruce Weber has an elite 8, George Mason has a final four, there are countless programs who were able to go hot for a few games and get there. Didnt the peacocks go to the elite 8? I mean I still don’t want their coach. South C went to one; I didn’t want their coach.
Simply making an elite 8 I don’t think tells us much unless it’s followed up with recruiting success, a lot better on court productivity, and consistency. When you say make an elite 8, would you accept bad recruiting, constant blowouts, never winning the league, if he managed to squeak through to an elite 8 here and there? Like what is the standard he needs to adhere to?
Yes I’d accept all that for an elite eight. The point of recruiting is to get to elite eights. People forget the point. Also, blowouts are going to be more common going forward — just the way of the game. Get to an elite eight and keep improving defensive coaching. I’ll be more than happy to say he’s the guy.
Kentucky is the owner of the majority of all (64?) categories in NCAA history. The main reason I called to replace Calipari was his inconsistency. Blue bloods win, they don’t lose all year for a shot at an elite 8. If that’s what happens the you aren’t a blue blood. Nobody is going to call UK a blue blood for an occasional elite 8, no good players, no conference titles, 10 + loss seasons, no all Americans, losing the top spot in the categories we control. Simply put, if that’s were to happen Kentucky is no longer Kentucky. We’re just a hot / cold program who occasionally sees a second weekend. I don’t think this has been thought through.
Kentucky is the leader not just due to final fours and titles. But you’re saying you don’t even need that? You’re essentially saying Arizona standards (or less) is enough here?sounds like push comes to shove this is an attempt to lower the bar for inferior coach. That’s what I’ve been saying for weeks. It sounds like it.
I seen a video that was showing Jaspers AAU team and that video claimed they never worked on defense. Idk how true it was but it would make sense. The kid has potential he just needs to get stronger and keep gaining more experience
I didn’t say anything like that. I said I need an elite eight to know Pope is the guy for me. That doesn’t mean I don’t have expectations outside of that. I keep a long log of stats from every blueblood and track them meticulously. A lot of things matter to me. But if you’re asking what wants me to keep Pope long term, I need an Elite Eight. The other things that matter to me are likely happening if you’re making deep tourney runs anyway.
You realize I didn't even include Lehigh and Mercer in that list, right? They are quite literally the same as losing to Oakland and St. Peters. I'm not deflecting to coach K, I'm trying to show you that even the greatest coaches have plenty of upsets and let downs.. so It's not me deflecting, it's you. You're applying different criteria and standards for Coach K's losses than Cal's because you hate Cal THAT MUCH, that you'd defend maybe our biggest rival and their coach (which is, absolutely pathetic behavior). If Coach K has letdowns, choke jobs, etc.. why should we ever expect that not to happen to our coach, whether it's Cal or Pope or the next guy?
And that's my big issue with this: if this is the sort of criteria you expect from our coach, than you're never going to be happy, because not even the greatest coaches can deliver the results you seem to expect. Even the GOAT coach Pitino (IMO) was beat repeatedly by his rival, who was, funny enough Calipari. So if enough fans think like you do, then elite coaches aren't going to feel inclined to come here. No coach is going to want to sit there and have fans question his 2015 loss to Wisconsin like he's on trial. The expectations are far too high for what we're offering.
And honestly, I believe that's a big reason why Cal sandbagged it the last few years, because of sanctimonious and hyper-critical fans like yourself. He gave up. The audacity for people like you to watch us get to four Final4's in 5 years, only for you to be like "Well, I think Ulis should have been started over the twins agaisnt Wisconsin", I think completely blew his mind. He pulled this program from the grave and thats the thanks he got? No wonder Cal found happiness elsewhere, in ****-*** Arkansas of all places lol. How sad is that?
As for me being your favorite poster, it's for 2 reasons: 1. I'm one of the funniest posters here and that's not up for debate. and 2. I'm pretty objective in my opinions. I never argue in absolutes. Nothing is just set in stone, things are fluid. So if my takes are sound or at least fair, than maybe you're the one who is off base on this topic.
Kenpom ranking of Cal’s teams since the start of the decade:
15
36
23
27
6
49
29
Kenpom ranking of Pope coached teams since the start of the decade:
28
16
18
77
58
20
13
I was mildly surprised that Pope had more top 25’s. His worst teams were worse than Cal’s though. Cal had the better overall team. Shame they were tarnished by a first round upset.
15
36
23
27
6
49
29
Kenpom ranking of Pope coached teams since the start of the decade:
28
16
18
77
58
20
13
I was mildly surprised that Pope had more top 25’s. His worst teams were worse than Cal’s though. Cal had the better overall team. Shame they were tarnished by a first round upset.
Seems like most of it is his mentality. He wants to be a gunner, but that's losing basketball, it doesn't work and too often, his actions end up with the opponent getting an easy bucket on the other end.
The thing that's crazy to me is, he never learns his lesson, he just keeps doing it.
I'm not defending coach K at all, first off, he’s not our issue, so it doesn’t matter if he chokes or not, but still, his choke jobs don't seem as drastic, or as often as Cal's.
And when it comes to Cal, I've always been honest. I sat on that fence for a long time, but the massive upsets and losses to mid majors at home, are inexcusable.
If Pope had as much talent as Cal and was losing at home to Evansville, or losing in the NCAAT to Oakland, I would roast him too.
And if coack K lost at home to UNCW, or in the NCAAT to St Peters, I would laugh extremely hard. I hate duke.
But this thread is about being embarrassed, Cal embarrassed me, as a UK fan, far more than Pope has.
Cal's bad losses did seem to come all around the same time, at the end of his tenure. But my point is to illustrate that even the best coach in the game had just as bad of losses. If you want to say Cal's were a little worse? Sure, I guess.. but there's no evidence to say they were drastically different. And on top of that, once Coach K went all in on freshman, that's when he struggled to even get to a Final 4, which illustrates my other point that teams with a ton of Elite-but-inexperience freshman isn't some automatic ticket to a Final4 or title game.
Pope also has only been here for 2 seasons, and I'd say overall, the experience isn't great. The problem with Pope is that he doesn't have a title, or title appearances, or Final4s to help mitigate the times he didn't do well.
I'm actually not all the way out on Pope, although I'm close. I'd like to see what a better AD and a GM can do for him, while maybe seeing if Pope can also change some things on his end. I'm not big into this whole "Cal vs Pope" debate. But I'd say Kentucky is looking pretty embarrasing for paying $20mil for this roster, losing 12 games, while Cal has his team set up pretty nicely after just winning the SECT. We can moan about some of his bad losses, but I can promise you right now, Kentucky looks a bit foolish on the national landscape for how this all turned out.
You bring up a good point, Cal's happened in a concentrated period of time, right at the end of his tenure.
The biggest issue I have with it, is I feel like he didn't put in the effort to put a stop to it. He just shrugged it off, called us "basketball Bennies" and talked about going home to pet his dogs. That's pouring salt into the wounds and that will get any fanbase to turn on you in a hurry.
Now, we sit here chewing our fingernails over this Santa Clara game. We all have PTSA from the end of Cal's tenure.
I believe Cal 100% quit and his decision making became spiteful, almost like he wanted to prove a point to the fans, even if he lost the game. That's why I liken it to a divorce. He wasnt happy with how he was treated, wasn't happy with Mitch, and now he was sandbagging it. I think he knew he was not gonna be the head coach of UK, probably 12-18 months before it actually happened.
And for that reason alone, he had to leave. You can not have a coach doing that, once someone has checked out like that, they have to go. And that's also the reason he can't come back. The relationship is still far too strained.
The difference for me though, and you won't agree.. is that the fans/Kentucky media had much more to do with this breakup than they want to believe. It's exactly what I said above. There were an actual decent amount of fans, even if they were a large minority, who really got on him about the losses to WVU and Wisconsin.. and those voices got louder when he lost to UNC, and then louder when he lost to Kstate.. and it really hit a fever pitch with the COVID years.
We had what I surmise, was a 9 out of 10 for a coach leading up to 2020. We had it so good. And some fans wanted a 10 out of 10. They would not allow for tournament upsets, they didn't want 1AD, they wanted up to date info on every single injury.. and I think Cal got tired of it after a while. Now you can say that you weren't one of those fans.. I don't know. I'd have to go look. But I can tell you that it was on these forums from many posters going back to Wisconsin.
And the reason why I bring this up often, is that we're going to have this same problem with whoever our next coach is. You can't expect to win EVERY game were favored in or not have a down year or two. The coach won't do everything you ask of him. And if the fans keep up these impossible expectations, I do think that's only going to hurt the program down the road. Maybe it's why we're not getting the coaching attention we want? Maybe that was cause of Mitch, who knows.. but were about to find out.
Yeah and if he mailed it in and didn’t care about winning, he is going to get tagged as a choke artist, or a bad coach thats just gets talent. Is what it is. He did it to himself.
This job is definitely exhausting, but we're not the only fanbase that is crazy. The NY Yankees, Chicago Cubs, Dallas Cowboys, Alabama football, Green Bay Packers etc…
But also, any fanbase that tastes even a little success, has their crazies. For instance, Tennessee has never been to a FF, Rick Barns has given them three E8's and a very large part of that fanbase wants him fired. It got really loud after we beat them in TBA this year.
Cal knew what he was getting himself into when he took this job and he wanted that smoke. UK made him a God and he got high on himself.
But, this has always been looked at as a 10 year job max. It's not just a thought.
I don't really disagree with any of the above. But I dont think "giving up" equates to being a choke artist. Its certainly not a better thing to be, by any means, but its not that. I find Self to be the bigger choke artists by definition, and he's lauded by the media and college basketball world.
Cal probably won too much, too fast.. but I've always said that he got a lot of lucky bounces early, and then didn't get much later on. In reality, we shouldn't have gotten as far as we didn in 2014, yet we probably should have beat UNC or beaten Kstate to go to a final 4. And we wouldn't have lost to St. Peters if not for two injuries to our guards. Still, just because he won 4 final 4's in his first 6 or so years, doesn't mean fans should have just expected that going forward. There is NO coach out there who can realistically do that.
I say this in the context of our UK basketball tradition…LOSERS’S MENTALITY.
I guess it's up to Cal to decide what he wants to be.
There were times he was coaching hard on the sidelines, so I'm not sure how much he quit. When you have so much more talent than the team you're playing and you're a HOF fame coach, you can't just consistently lose and he lost way too many of those.
Also, I definitely don't count the UConn losses, or the uNC loss. I thought he coached well in those games. UConn was just better in 2011, then, the other 2, well, there were other reasons for those losses.
I think you meant to say UCONN was just less crappy in 20011. lol
if you’d told me Kemba Walker would have a decent game(not great) and Shabazz Napier would do nothing and they would only score 56 points as a team, I would have bet $10,000 on the Cats. Glad no one told me that.
I mean in the context he used. Calipari doesn’t have anything to do with that.
Plus 6 pages of this, keeping up isn’t even worth it.