We need to build differently...through transfers...

[scarletrat]

...freshmen recruits are important, but the fastest path may be through transfers, guys who have potential at power 5 schools and high performing guys that play at smaller schools in mid-major or low-major conferences. Our own history, of when we last made the tourney, was powered by players in large part who transferred (Savage, Dabbs, Duncan, and of course Hughes). Other schools such as Notre Dame years ago and others have grown and broke through in meaningful part due to transfers--such as when ND got Ryan Humphrey. These can be guys with 2-3 years left of eligibility.

One example I keep coming back to you is when EJ was here and apparently CHarles Cooke, who played HS ball in NJ and averaged 15 ppg or so at JMU was looking to transfer. He visited here, and I don't know how serious he would have considered coming here, but he went to Dayton and is their 2nd best player.

We all know how many good players have left RU and helped other programs--just look at a middling Tulsa team and what Junior Etou is doing.

It can take frosh 1-2 years to mature, improve, and contribute, look at Mike Williams, but the more I've thought about it, we need 2-3 transfers and supplement with frosh...not the other way around, and not with 5th year transfers unless need a stop gap...we aren't selling assistant coach positions...

 

[MV9000]

Fully agree. At least until we prove our selves within the B1G. Its a big leap of fate right now for a stud to come to RU. By obtaining 3* and the occasional four star while retaining transfer will be our best bet to success. Good post.

 

[TruJerz_rivals]

Interesting to note that Junior Etou is shooting 44% (40/90) from behind the arc this season and 78% (101-129) from the FT line. This team could of definitely used him this year but no use in crying over spilled milk right?

 

[higgins3]

Interesting to note that Junior Etou is shooting 44% (40/90) from behind the arc this season and 78% (101-129) from the FT line. This team could of definitely used him this year but no use in crying over spilled milk right?

I will say, the numbers look great, but that tulsa team has gotten blown out quite a bit. Could be against backups that inflate the stats.

 

[higgins3]

I am very confident the staff is trying to build through all ways possible.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Interesting to note that Junior Etou is shooting 44% (40/90) from behind the arc this season and 78% (101-129) from the FT line. This team could of definitely used him this year but no use in crying over spilled milk right?

maybe, just maybe, we have guys capable of shooting like that.

A. they don't have the green light
B. no one is getting them the ball open

I have heard Jonathan Laurent needs to get an outside shot. I was at the RAC 45 minutes before gametime when he was hurt last year. In street clothes without a defender he was draining 3 after 3 from way beyond the line.

I truly believe our guys are capable of shooting much better. That includes Freeman and Laurent.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Let me add Sterling Taplin has the #3 assist rate in the American (silly kenpom stat). Is it because Junior makes 3s or is it because he passes and takes it to the basket. I am assuming he penetrates a bunch based on his FT stats.

 

[mikefla]

I agree with Higgins

We need help NOW,,,,,we can wait 1-2 years for Fr recruits to blossom
Nigel, Freeman, CJ are all transfers and ALL contribute
add Sanders and thats ALL we have
4 guys

Diallo(Fr), Thiam(Fr), & Omoruyi(Fr) wouldnt be seeing playing time at many B10 programs
nor would SOPH Doorson
its asking a LOT of them to be counted on...
they ALL play pretty decent defense(and playing defense is how u get playing time for Coach P)

I trust coach P will do it that way(via transfers)

 

[TruJerz_rivals]

maybe, just maybe, we have guys capable of shooting like that.

A. they don't have the green light
B. no one is getting them the ball open

I have heard Jonathan Laurent needs to get an outside shot. I was at the RAC 45 minutes before gametime when he was hurt last year. In street clothes without a defender he was draining 3 after 3 from way beyond the line.

I truly believe our guys are capable of shooting much better. That includes Freeman and Laurent.

Interesting. I just wrote about him in another thread. I would think he would of worked on his shot relentlessly in the offseason to cement himself in the starting lineup which was his to lose IMO but maybe they just aren't getting open enough to take and make shots which is very possible

 

[higgins3]

maybe, just maybe, we have guys capable of shooting like that.

A. they don't have the green light
B. no one is getting them the ball open

I have heard Jonathan Laurent needs to get an outside shot. I was at the RAC 45 minutes before gametime when he was hurt last year. In street clothes without a defender he was draining 3 after 3 from way beyond the line.

I truly believe our guys are capable of shooting much better. That includes Freeman and Laurent.

I do not think this is the case. We have all agreed, it is easy to shoot with no one on you.

Laurent never looks to shot. Finding, and working for your shot in space is far different than just shooting in practice, uncontested. We always say that here.

If his shot was falling, or he was confident, it would be up.

A great shooter is recognized by the staff and gets the green light. The staff is not playing to lose.

They've got open looks. Could our guards do better?Absolutely. If we had great shooters on this team, they would get the ball.

The only people that have the green light are Johnson and sometimes Williams. Besides that, we sorely lack shooters. I never played into that, because it was too easy. It is the truth,though.

 

[higgins3]

If you like stats, you could never compare this year versus last year.

They were playing backups 70% of the time last year, and the offense was backdoor cuts, which favored Laurent and his athleticism.

Now it is 3 out, two in, dribble drive, pick and roll, and catch and shoot coming off the pick in space. Quickly. If you cannot do that, it will not work. That is why Laurent is having a difficult time.

You always say FIG, most of us could hit 3 pt shots if we practiced correct form. We could hit them repeatedly.

If it is anything, it is that Laurent is not getting plays specifically run for him. The coaches know where their offense comes from, and who has the skill set for it.

 

[RUChoppin]

Diallo(Fr), Thiam(Fr), & Omoruyi(Fr) wouldnt be seeing playing time at many B10 programs
nor would SOPH Doorson

Diallo was a RS Soph this year, as was Doorson. Both were part of the 2014 class along with Mike Williams.

Next year will be Diallo and Doorson's fourth year enrolled at Rutgers, as both will be RS Juniors. It's hoped that big men can turn a corner as upper classmen, and we sure need to see some of that. With Doorson getting another foot surgery in the offseason, I don't know how much progress he'll be able to make before next year, though.

 

[Mr_Twister]

Interesting to note that Junior Etou is shooting 44% (40/90) from behind the arc this season and 78% (101-129) from the FT line. This team could of definitely used him this year but no use in crying over spilled milk right?

Etou's team is Rutgers caliber ... Tulsa is 7 notches above #125 Rutgers.

 

[RUChoppin]

If it is anything, it is that Laurent is not getting plays specifically run for him. The coaches know where their offense comes from, and who has the skill set for it.

I've seen Laurent look off open threes several times, and other times he hesitates on an open look long enough to allow a defender to close the gap.

How much is not having a green light, how much is not having confidence, how much is just overthinking the moment, and how much is just not being comfortable in the flow of the offense?

Omoruyi takes almost as many threes as Laurent, and hasn't hit one yet. Can't imagine he has more of a green light than Laurent does.

 

[higgins3]

I've seen Laurent look off open threes several times, and other times he hesitates on an open look long enough to allow a defender to close the gap.

How much is not having a green light, how much is not having confidence, how much is just overthinking the moment, and how much is just not being comfortable in the flow of the offense?

Omoruyi takes almost as many threes as Laurent, and hasn't hit one yet. Can't imagine he has more of a green light than Laurent does.

Absolutely. All those things go into it.

Where is Laurents release pocket on those threes GRF talks about?Tight and high enough to have time to let it go?Drops down by his hips where he would never be able to get it off?

On a short leash so he looks to play it safe?

Still, we have a professional staff, a full staff that has never been matched in Rutgers History. I can confidently say that in the time I have been a fan, since 2012.

They know who can shoot, and who to tell to shoot. Right now, it is a small number.

Thiam-too low of a release. Sanders- just not shooting well right now, has too narrow of a shooting stance. Way to narrow on the jump off the pick and roll. Comes down on one foot often.

Johnson- the only player worthy of a green light right now at all times.

 

[higgins3]

Diallo was a RS Soph this year, as was Doorson. Both were part of the 2014 class along with Mike Williams.

Next year will be Diallo and Doorson's fourth year enrolled at Rutgers, as both will be RS Juniors. It's hoped that big men can turn a corner as upper classmen, and we sure need to see some of that. With Doorson getting another foot surgery in the offseason, I don't know how much progress he'll be able to make before next year, though.

With Doorson, that is a very big risk to take as a coach. Pikiell is looking elsewhere. His salary depends on it. He would never take the risk of going into next years season with a player with a twice injured foot, and one that is nowhere near patient with his hands as he must be.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

A lot depends on what happens with the roster

We are set right now for 17-18 if everyone comes back

Sr (4): Freeman/Johnson/Williams/Sa
Jr (5): Sanders/Laurent/Doorson/Diallo/Mensah
So (3): Thiam/Onochyi/Bullock
Fr (1): Baker

We have one class of 18 kid coming in (Doucoure...4 star)

I really want to have 4 ships for class of 18....and at least 3 for the class of 19....so if two kids transfer out...this off season....a JUCO SF who can CHUCK and a fifth year senior center would fit the bill quite nicely

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Laurent is having a tough time adjusting to what the staff wants him to do. Laurent is more skilled than Thiam and Eugene and quite frankly should be the guy getting minutes. However i get the sense he doesn't bring it every possession and the staff doesn't have confidence. It could be his personality, but to me i'd like to see him play with a little more emotion.

 

[mikefla]

Diallo was a RS Soph this year, as was Doorson. Both were part of the 2014 class along with Mike Williams.

Next year will be Diallo and Doorson's fourth year enrolled at Rutgers, as both will be RS Juniors. It's hoped that big men can turn a corner as upper classmen, and we sure need to see some of that. With Doorson getting another foot surgery in the offseason, I don't know how much progress he'll be able to make before next year, though.

yup..sorry I lost track Diallo is a soph..

I fully expect Doorson to be a factor next year,,he had ONE good game on O
and I LOVE Omoruyi..he has moves..and D

Bottom line for me is Coach P knows talent when he sees it
he did a GREAT job getting ALL HE COULD out of this years team
[banana][banana][banana]we beat PSU ON THE ROAD !!!![banana][banana][banana]
we were IN the thick of things for 4 games...:boxing::boxing::boxing::boxing:
ONE more GO GETTER on O & we would possibly be 6 wins in the b10

I fully expect to see a better team next year...I fully expect a surprise transfer or two

One thing is for sure
we earned something we didnt have in LAST YEARs barrage of blowouts
we earned some :cool2:RESPECT :cool2: this year !!!!!

 

[mikefla]

Laurent is having a tough time adjusting to what the staff wants him to do. Laurent is more skilled than Thiam and Eugene and quite frankly should be the guy getting minutes. However i get the sense he doesn't bring it every possession and the staff doesn't have confidence. It could be his personality, but to me i'd like to see him play with a little more emotion.

I agree

I saw Laurent play here in Orlando & he was pretty damn solid....on offense
I think playing solid D..........wasnt his forte in HS

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Shack you do realize that what you are asking for his a rare commodity. 1,3s and 5s are hard to find. 2s and 4s are plentiful.

There is a reason Rutgers hasn't had a legitimate 3 FOREVER. They are in limited quantities and we are low on the totem pole. If we get one 99% chance they will be a JJ Moore which HURTS a team. I'd MUCH rather roll with 3 6'2'' guards that will play both ends.

CJ Gettys fell in our lap in August. The chances of us finishing another 5th year 5 like CJ is extremely low.

 

[higgins3]

Laurent is having a tough time adjusting to what the staff wants him to do. Laurent is more skilled than Thiam and Eugene and quite frankly should be the guy getting minutes. However i get the sense he doesn't bring it every possession and the staff doesn't have confidence. It could be his personality, but to me i'd like to see him play with a little more emotion.

So he shouldnt be getting more minutes. Thiam gives more effort, and is not the liability Laurent is defensively. Defensively, Laurent gets confused a lot. Both Thiam and Eugene deserve more minutes than Laurent.

He reminds me of Justin Holiday on the Knicks. Laurent, with a jump shot(times ticking) is a player you want on this team. He really must come around.

 

[higgins3]

No one is saying it has to be a grad transfer.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I wasn't clear. Laurent should be the guy getting the minutes, provided he has earned them. i trust he hasn't earned them.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No one is saying it has to be a grad transfer.

problem is these days a transfer can be 2 years for only 1 on the court with the 5th year thing.

i do agree though with the premise that waiting for 2018 class to mature alone could sink Pikiell's chance of getting it done. i don't like it, but it is reality.

 

[higgins3]

problem is these days a transfer can be 2 years for only 1 on the court with the 5th year thing.

i do agree though with the premise that waiting for 2018 class to mature alone could sink Pikiell's chance of getting it done. i don't like it, but it is reality.

For sure. Doucoure is the exact player Pikiell wants. He cannot take the risk on next year with who we have for centers/rebounds here right now. I am sure Hobbs is fully commited to Pikiell. But it would greatly effect him if he can not get someone here to replace Gettys for next year.

A 2018 kid from NY is a center that has a Rutgers offer. 7 1, pretty solid on the boards. I think he is a 1b to Reid, so he now may become a 1a. Along with that Wahab kid who was here three weeks ago from the DMV area.

 

[RUinFla]

Exactly, Mike--you couldn't tune in an RU telecast and find any analyst that didn't want--or at least expect--the opponent to win. Those guys cut their permanent teeth on Wisconsin-Purdue or Michigan-Ohio State. But they all said, gee Rutgers plays hard, rebounds the ball and works hard on defense. And they just don't quit. First comes that attitude--playing hard all the time. Lots of mistakes, and collectively they can't shoot, but that is down to their limitations as players, and not down to their effort. You could not expect a new staff to pull in recruits this year on short notice, and given the baggage of the last several years, so this year's freshmen were not great. With a year of culture change and finally more favorable buzz, we will get better players.
TL

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You have Diallo Doorson and Sa. Why do we need a 4th center?

I'd be shocked if we find a 5th year better than Sa

 

[scarletrat]

my feeling is if everyone comes back as Shack outlined, we will be in the same position as this year. and that is year 2 with then new players coming in due to graduation/expiring eligibility of current players, and hten have to take lumps. Rice was correct in trying to do that in years 2 and 3 with new players, but it was 1 step forward, 1.5 steps back in terms of production and results (videos notwithstanding)

what I'd like to see:
1. a few players leave and in their place we get at least 2 transfers who have to sit that were productive wings at mid-majors (like CAA) who can shoot and have demonstrated they can put the ball in the hole but not at low-majors and want to increase their exposure and play at a higher league...no JUCOs or 5 year transfers
2. we take our lumps next year, maybe someone like Laurent can significantly improve, but then in 2018 you have a few frosh like MD mixed in with the 2 transfers

 

[higgins3]

You have Diallo Doorson and Sa. Why do we need a 4th center?

I'd be shocked if we find a 5th year better than Sa

None of them have shown to be reliable as a big ten center. Far from it. As mentioned, Doorson is on his second surgery.

Like we said, Pikiell will not take this risk.

 

[RU_DIO]

You have Diallo Doorson and Sa. Why do we need a 4th center?

I'd be shocked if we find a 5th year better than Sa

Sa is nowhere strong enough to play center.

 

[NBKnight]

maybe, just maybe, we have guys capable of shooting like that.

A. they don't have the green light
B. no one is getting them the ball open

I have heard Jonathan Laurent needs to get an outside shot. I was at the RAC 45 minutes before gametime when he was hurt last year. In street clothes without a defender he was draining 3 after 3 from way beyond the line.

I truly believe our guys are capable of shooting much better. That includes Freeman and Laurent.

Without getting into whether Mensah is the right guy, a true point guard should help everyone be a little more effective.

 

[RU at the shore]

I think following a productive offseason, that Sa can us 20 good minutes at Center

 

[Knights 1212]

I don't think we can take a chance at this time on a transfer who must sit out a year before he can be eligible to play. We cannot go backwards and only win 10 games or less again. This cycle must end. I think we must bring in at least two more players for next season that can be contributors to next season's team. In 2018 we must bring in at least 4 new players and hopefully at least 3 will be among the Top 150 in their class. with Doucoure we have one but we must add at least two more in that caliber. We must followup with a few good players in the 2019 class as well.

I have confidence that our coaches can find two more players that can help us for next season by this coming August if at least two players do not return for next season. I know they are working extremely hard while constantly recruiting.

 

[higgins3]

I think following a productive offseason, that Sa can us 20 good minutes at Center

I will say this, Jay Young is one of the best big men coaches/defensive coaches in all of the northeast.He is probably top twenty in college basketball. If someone can do it, it is him.

Sitll, asking for a lot out of a kid that wasn't playing much. I would be surprised. Not to mention, Sa is nowhere near a true center.

 

[yellowlot]

What was the real scoop on Etou and why he left? I did like him as a player.

 

[RU-ROCS]

I will say, the numbers look great, but that tulsa team has gotten blown out quite a bit. Could be against backups that inflate the stats.

That's possible, but it's worth noting that we don't have a single guy who could shoot 44% from three even with no one covering him!:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sa is nowhere strong enough to play center.

He can get stronger. We had an effective center 20 pounds overweight. Next year we will play with a frail center.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

As Sartre and Malcolm X used to say "by whatever means necessary"

 

[higgins3]

Gettys was about 30-40 pounds overweight. Just saying.

Nonetheless, I guess one could roll with what we have now as a frontcourt. It is a risk,though.

I would not mind seeing them bring in a juco who just rebounded, nothing else.

Sa needs about twenty pounds. Him and Gettys swap lbs?