We finish 8-10 in the SEC...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
No need to extend. Just be a waste of money if you let him go.
I assume that he has one year left on his contract? If that is correct, then there is absolutely zero reason to extend him. You would only extend him to keep him from going somewhere else. If you are still debating whether or not to keep him, the only thing an extension would do is commit you to money that you would not have to spend if you parted ways after next year.
I assume that he has one year left on his contract? If that is correct, then there is absolutely zero reason to extend him. You would only extend him to keep him from going somewhere else. If you are still debating whether or not to keep him, the only thing an extension would do is commit you to money that you would not have to spend if you parted ways after next year.
good idea... he'll be a hot commodity after this season and someone will swoop in and snatch him away from us.
This is what you do. Ideally, we'd offer him another year four year contract, but give him lopsided buyout provisions. We pay little to fire him beyond what's already provided and we get some protection from him jumping ship in case he does figure things out. His agent should push back hard against that, but not sure what Ray can say. He needs the extension to help with recruiting. If he turns it down, he is basically committing to being done at MSU at the end of his current contract while at the same time making it harder for himself to recruit well enough to earn better options. Unless he'd be perfectly happy to going back to being an assistant somewhere, that'd be pretty ballsy.
Depends, does he currently have a 4 year contract, therefore meaning that he will get another year after 2015/2016? If so, heck no you do not extend him.
If he finishes 15-16, he should get his 4th year. Then it should be NCAA bubble or fired.
If he finishes 15-16, he should get his 4th year. Then it should be NCAA bubble or fired.
My understanding of the way that Stricklin handles all coaches' contracts is that they meet prior to every season in order to set expectations for the year, and then they meet again following the season to review results. There probably aren't many people outside of SS and Ray that know the details of the goals that were set for this year, but if they did somehow include the possibility of an extension following a 15 win season and not even coming close to sniffing the postseason, then I'm just done. In year 3, there has to be some accountability and no matter how much the team seems to have improved lately, that would be absurd.
Now, the point about restructuring the buyout is an interesting one and no one seems to really know the details on it either, but whatever it is, I really find it hard to believe that it is keeping Scott up at night. If we gave a significant buyout clause to a first time head coach that literally no one else was going after three years ago, then we've got some other things to talk about other than Ray's extension.
Now, the point about restructuring the buyout is an interesting one and no one seems to really know the details on it either, but whatever it is, I really find it hard to believe that it is keeping Scott up at night. If we gave a significant buyout clause to a first time head coach that literally no one else was going after three years ago, then we've got some other things to talk about other than Ray's extension.
Ray was interviewed on Bo Bounds this morning and really did a great job. He recapped his first two years and detailed what they were up against and you gotta admit the guy had no chance at the beginning. He went through this season including the three game letdown in non conference games and he took the blame but also called out his veterans for lack of leadership.
He's got some talent coming in he's excited about and seems upbeat about the prospects for the rest of the season.
At this point I'd give him another year with his veterans and the recruits he's excited about and see where it goes. I was on the fire Ray bandwagon after the 3 non conference losses but I'm for the guy now. I just like him and really think he's working his *** off for us.
He's got some talent coming in he's excited about and seems upbeat about the prospects for the rest of the season.
At this point I'd give him another year with his veterans and the recruits he's excited about and see where it goes. I was on the fire Ray bandwagon after the 3 non conference losses but I'm for the guy now. I just like him and really think he's working his *** off for us.
Agreed. Considering what he went through the first two years with injuries and a razor thin roster, the only way I wouldn't have been on board with giving him a 4th year would be if we showed clear regression this year. Obviously, that is not the case and Ray deserves a 4th with this group. Next year, the absolute floor has to be NIT and expectations should be NCAA bubble or bust. If we don't make the postseason or barely squeak into the NIT, serious consideration has to be given to shaking his hand and moving on.
I like Ray. I think the works really hard. Neither of those things qualifies him to be a head coach. At best we will be 3-4 years down the road and developed him into a workable coach with a competitive roster. At worst, he still can't coach the fundamentals with better talent.
Why not just scrap it here and put a concerted effort into getting someone that we have faith can get it done in here?
We are resigning ourselves to mediocrity by keeping Ray here.
Why not just scrap it here and put a concerted effort into getting someone that we have faith can get it done in here?
We are resigning ourselves to mediocrity by keeping Ray here.
codeDawg, both you and Seinfeld make good points. I agree that Seinfeld that Ray deserves his 4th year, and it makes sense to do so. The players have been with him since the beginning, it just seems a natural 'end', or beginning, however you want to look at it. I also agree with you, in that you can easily tell if you have a coach that is worth putting faith in. I remember hearing a saying that said, "If you are looking at the outcome of one game to tell you if you have the right guy, then you have the wrong guy". We are not at that place yet with Ray, but I have a feeling we will be next year at this time. We will be on the NIT bubble......right below what expectations should be....and our fanbase will again be fractured. THAT is when Stricklin will have to step up and make the hard decision.
You can always count on Ray for one thing. While he struggles with game prep, or in game coaching, or recruiting, he has always excelled at telling everyone just how hard his job is.
Exactly. You have to look at what is a specific coach's ceiling. Ray is a good dude, hard worker and is pretty intelligent. However, those traits don't necessarily add up to being a winning basketball coach. He might one day figure out how to be an upper echelon coach but Mississippi State is not a charitable organization and we shouldn't have to sacrifice our institution to help people "figure it out." We play in the SEC damnit and we have SEC money, nothing should ever take 4-6 years to turn around, especially basketball.
And concerning our recruiting class, I hope Quindarry Weatherspoon has strong shoulders because people are putting a lot on him to perform like a 5 star next year. Tookie is the same size as IJ, better handler, worse shooter and Strugg is a project player at best. Couldn't even crack his high school teams starting lineup as a junior.
The Sly Croom code to success. Be sure to keep excuses handy.
I was feeling a whole lot better about our situation after our little spurt. Now, in hindsight, I realize that we just shot well in those games. And THAT was the most unexpected thing. We actually shot well. We are a VERY bad offensive team. At some point, that has to hit on the head coach's doorstep.
I was feeling a whole lot better about our situation after our little spurt. Now, in hindsight, I realize that we just shot well in those games. And THAT was the most unexpected thing. We actually shot well. We are a VERY bad offensive team. At some point, that has to hit on the head coach's doorstep.
At a certain point you have to sit back and decide if you are pleased with the trajectory of the coach and the team. I'm certainly not. I think we're wasting time and settling because we feel guilty. There is opportunity in the league and in college basketball in general right now for the right kind of leader. I feel like we are accepting "not unbearable" instead of striving for great.
As for RR, nobody should feel sorry for him. He knew the situation coming in, and he's getting paid a LOT of money to deal with it. He's a good guy, a hard worker and all of that, so it's a tough thing personally to change directions, but that's what bold leadership has to do sometimes.
Back to the original question, I don't think extending a contract on a guy that is not likely to leave is very smart. If we're going to give him an extra million to stick around, let's give it to him now to leave.
What I'm really afraid of is that we luck up into the NIT next year and it is his Liberty Bowl. Then we won't have the balls to do what needs to be done if we fall flat the next year. Then we're in year 5 and it is crystal clear.
As for RR, nobody should feel sorry for him. He knew the situation coming in, and he's getting paid a LOT of money to deal with it. He's a good guy, a hard worker and all of that, so it's a tough thing personally to change directions, but that's what bold leadership has to do sometimes.
Back to the original question, I don't think extending a contract on a guy that is not likely to leave is very smart. If we're going to give him an extra million to stick around, let's give it to him now to leave.
What I'm really afraid of is that we luck up into the NIT next year and it is his Liberty Bowl. Then we won't have the balls to do what needs to be done if we fall flat the next year. Then we're in year 5 and it is crystal clear.
We are in about as tough a spot as we were when we let RS go. If we dont extend the guy he has no hope of recruiting anybody. If we do extend him, I have little faith he will sign anybody to justify the money and we are another year down the road but there is a chance. Either scenario we are probably under talented in comparison to the other SEC schools and we are gonna have a hard time convincing anyone of higher caliber to walk into that situation and take over. Empty cupboard is hard to sell, but probably time to try somebody else and maybe we find a gold nuggett in the pile of dirt we will have to scour through.
I don't see it. Eight wins could be viewed as a "measurable" improvement from previous years, but keep in mind how weak the league is overall. Most years we have had 3-4 teams that could make it to the Final Four. This year only UK stands out and they haven't been that great. What puts it in perspective for me is the fact that Ole Miss is firmly in the tournament at this point with 3 of their top players being transfers. When has a team of mostly transfers won our league? Either AK is a great judge of talent or the conference is down. He has made the big dance 1 time.......so that kinda narrows it down.
Either fire him or give him a 1 year contract extension. I know that stinks, but if he can't recruit, we'll be worse off if we have to fire him next year.
This is exactly what will happen, most likely. But, looking at the bright side, like you said, the answer will be crystal clear after Year 5 no matter what, no hard decisions will be needed. Just like Croom.
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You are just trying too hard to be politically correct in this instance. The parallels between Ray and Croom are certainly apparent, and not for the skin color reason that you are trying so hard to avoid.
1) State of the program when he took over
2) Follows a highly successful coach who set the standard
3) First objective is instilling 'discipline'
4) 3-4 year 'plans'
5) Offensive ineptitude
6) Fans divided
7) Lack of recruiting
8) First head coaching job, after really not having the typical qualifications
9) Appears Year 4 will be the peak
The only difference in Ray and Croom were the sports, and the hoopla surrounding Croom. People applauded us for hiring Croom, strictly for PC purposes. People wondered what we were thinking when we hired Ray, although most of us already know it was because we could not do any better after firing a proven winner who had just gotten us to the NIT with 20+ wins.
1) State of the program when he took over
2) Follows a highly successful coach who set the standard
3) First objective is instilling 'discipline'
4) 3-4 year 'plans'
5) Offensive ineptitude
6) Fans divided
7) Lack of recruiting
8) First head coaching job, after really not having the typical qualifications
9) Appears Year 4 will be the peak
The only difference in Ray and Croom were the sports, and the hoopla surrounding Croom. People applauded us for hiring Croom, strictly for PC purposes. People wondered what we were thinking when we hired Ray, although most of us already know it was because we could not do any better after firing a proven winner who had just gotten us to the NIT with 20+ wins.
I don't think someone is going to come in and offer him more than 1 million a year, never having a winning season and having a all time record of 398% as head coach.
Agree 100%. Your synopsis is very apparent to those that care to look. Again, I ALWAYS want MSU to win. I just see far too many failings right now to see that we are on the right track in basketball. When we are hitting all of our shots, we look decent. the other 60% of the time, we look completely lost. We scored 9 freaking points in a half of basketball, that can NEVER get glossed over.
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