Way to go Gov. Haley

[ccclemson]

I don't care one way or the other. Let's be honest the only reason she is doing this is to boost her political career. where was this when the cop shot an unarmed suspect? This is what makes you sick of these politicians. They are threatening gun control where the lobbyists can get them a super pax. What about the 9 people that lost their lives and rights? That flag didn't pull the trigger! Yes I know she can't run for governor again but she still can run for senate or house. Far as I'm concerned you can burn the thing or leave it. I say get rid of these slimy politicians

 

[EagleScoutCU15]

I can't believe Gold's Gym isn't getting any backlash for letting a racist exercise there. No, I'm actually surprised that they're not.

 

[tallulahtiger30319]

Confederate memorials period

In a random little bit of tid, would you believe that Georgia state government celebrates Confederate Memorial Day with a day off. So far, I've never seen anyone turn down the time off. I suppose it could happen, but my money says No Way.

 

[FreeSC]

Take it down!

Please explain to to how this would have prevented a single murder.
This has nothing to do with anything, except as a fundraiser for the NAACP.

 

[FreeSC]

Jim Clements ‏@ClemsonPrez 1m1 minute ago
I join Gov. Haley and other South Carolina leaders in calling for the removal of the Confederate battle flag from the State House grounds.

Dan Radakovich‏@ClemsonDRad
I agree with Gov Haley and Clemson President Jim Clements @ClemsonPrez that it is time to take down the Confederate Flag. #TakeDownTheFlag

Last dime I ever give to my university.

 

[Charliethetiger]

Seriously, for those of you that believe the flag is purely a symbol of our Southern Heritage - would you go out today and fly a confederate flag in front of your business? Of course not, because you know exactly what that flag says and represents. As far as the flag at the State House, I would support it if it were put up anywhere near the end of the Civil War. But it was not. It was put up there during the Civil Rights Movement and it is a clear sign of division, racism and hatred. That is what makes it different from other Confederate Memorials or streets like Wade Hampton Blvd.

I agree. Its time to take it down. It was once a symbol of a proud culture. Now it has been disgraced so many times by white supremacy grous

The flag never killed anyone. Just because some whack job has a confederate flag does not mean the flag is some symbol of hate. What if he had a Clemson sticker on his car? Would that mean we should get rid of all Clemson stickers?

Its according who is flying it as to what it represents. When flying on the Statehouse grounds it represents Heritage, when donned by groups such as the KKK, Michigan Militia(Timothy McVey) the Neo-Nazis it represents hate; therefore, it has no dignity. Its time to take it down. I don't usually say this, but I hope I can trust my fellow Clemson Fans. I'm a disabled veteran of 2 wars I have PTSD. I haven't had a good nights sleep since the shooting. I have fought beside, Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, Chinese, Japanese and Jewish. Their blood was red also, I saw it. That little animal that killed shot up those innocent people used it as symbol of hate. As a citizen of this great state, I truly believe we shouldn't give them the symbol to use as motivation to kill. I'm emotional right now. I love you guys remember............Peace and Love not hate. Jesus showed us how.That church showed us how by telling Roof they forgive him, but hate is not gonna win. Love will always win. Don't listen avenues of hate. Read your Bible. I've seen enough of hate to last a lifetime. Trust me you don't want to go there because it will chew you up. Again I love you guys. Go Nikki and Go Tigers.

 

[FreeSC]

Ok guy. But enslaving a whole race of people was just a walk in the park. Thanks for educating me

Actually, north and South both owned slaves.
For that matter, free blacks themselves owned slaves, and according to the US census of 1860, free blacks were statistically MORE likely to own slaves than free whites were.

 

[SGTiger]

First off slavery was wrong and second you do realize people on both sides owned slaves?
Go look this up if you like, Robert E Lee released his slaves before the Civil War ended, Sherman and Grant kept their slaves until the 13th amendment almost 2 years after the war ended. There was more to the Civil War than Slavery.

Didn't you read the post yesterday? The CSA was just like ISIS.

 

[watty55]

In a random little bit of tid, would you believe that Georgia state government celebrates Confederate Memorial Day with a day off. So far, I've never seen anyone turn down the time off. I suppose it could happen, but my money says No Way.

The Medical University of SC gets the choice of confederate memorial day or Martin Luther King day as a paid holiday.

 

[reddrum1948]

First off slavery was wrong and second you do realize people on both sides owned slaves?
Go look this up if you like, Robert E Lee released his slaves before the Civil War ended, Sherman and Grant kept their slaves until the 13th amendment almost 2 years after the war ended. There was more to the Civil War than Slavery.

Congrats clemsonfn8 you win the blue ribbon. You are on the money. Unfortunately history has been misshaped to meet a progressive agenda for many years. Lincoln tried very hard to side step the slavery issue because of the economic impact on the South as it was almost a totally agrarian economy and the North needed it badly but he was forced by internal political pressure to frame the emancipation movement.
Also, the Confederate flag has been used as the symbol of racism and bigotry for decades. In that vain I believe it should come down and placed in a museum. The Governor also was quick to say that if you wanted to display it on your private property that it was legal and the property owners business.

 

[Anon1737911712]

Seems like everything and everyone is to blame but the one who actually does the crime. I am not defending the flag but what will they blame next time.

How exactly is the shooter not being blamed? He was identified, tracked down, detained, thrown in jail and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Sounds like the epitome of blame to me.

 

[Ron Munson]

The winners write the history books.

 

[Anon1737911712]

I can agree with this, but where is the line going to be drawn? Will the Condeferate Memorial be taken down? What about the one in Charleston? Will the streets, buildings and schools named for Confederate officers have to change as well?

That's not really the point. That's hyoerbolizing the issue. No hate or white supremacy groups carry around and display figurines of Stonewall Jackson and General Beauregard.

The confederate flag has become a domestic symbol of white supremacy and hatred toward a specific race. I just can't understand how that's a difficult realization to understand.

 

[Ron Munson]

That's not really the point. That's hyoerbolizing the issue. No hate or white supremacy groups carry around and display figurines of Stonewall Jackson and General Beauregard.

The confederate flag has become a domestic symbol of white supremacy and hatred toward a specific race. I just can't understand how that's a difficult realization to understand.

The KKK also carries the American Flag and the Christian cross.

I get what you are saying and I certainly understand...however people just don't have a clue when it comes to the history of the flag (and I don't mean you, I mean people in general).

It, like guns, is just an easy out.

 

[SGTiger]

It would be nice if the amount of energy and interest expended on removing the flag was put into tackling the important issues that are literally killing minorities. Additionally racism will not decrease one iota after the flag is gone, but will actually increase racism to a small degree in SC. I don't care if the flag is removed or not, but the idea that removing the flag is anything but a piddly and superficial gesture is absurd. Removing the flag will help those that give a **** what the rest of the country thinks about S.C. Unlike several ITT, I'm not one of them.

 

[GilaMonsta]

I can agree with this, but where is the line going to be drawn? Will the Condeferate Memorial be taken down? What about the one in Charleston? Will the streets, buildings and schools named for Confederate officers have to change as well?

As a black man, the names and memorials to the confederate army and soldiers is not offensive at all. It's a very big part of our history, and they fought with honor regardless of their intentions. I think most somewhat educated Black people would agree to that.

The Confederate flag is not that. Yes it has history in the Civil war, but its history does not end there. The decades between 1950 and 1980 changed the meaning of that flag. That flag no longer represents just the confederate army. it represents hate. And black people didn't change the way it's viewed, hateful and racist white people did.

I've asked this a few times over the weekend and still no one has answered, so I'll ask again. Why is it that so many here refuse to acknowledge that were not saying it should come down because of the Civil war? No one gives af about the Civil War. It's about what happened during the 100 years that followed. Please answer me this.

 

[FreeSC]

Congrats clemsonfn8 you win the blue ribbon. You are on the money. Unfortunately history has been misshaped to meet a progressive agenda for many years. Lincoln tried very hard to side step the slavery issue because of the economic impact on the South as it was almost a totally agrarian economy and the North needed it badly but he was forced by internal political pressure to frame the emancipation movement.
Also, the Confederate flag has been used as the symbol of racism and bigotry for decades. In that vain I believe it should come down and placed in a museum. The Governor also was quick to say that if you wanted to display it on your private property that it was legal and the property owners business.

Actually, it is the US flag that has been a symbol of racism.
Go to the Klan's website. Last time I did (years ago) I found ONLY the US flag.
The Klsn is headquartered in Gary, Indiana. According to the FBI, the vast majority of their members are in the north.

In the 1860s, black soldiers fought in integrated units for the Confederacy.
However, they existed in segregated units ONLY in the US military until the 1950s.

I give you the real symbol of racism, using your own logic: the flag of the US.

 

[Cope_CU_Tiger]

Shes already in her second term. Can't run again.

Not for governor, but there are higher positions in office she could run for. Being the person who got the flag removed would look pretty good on a resume from a national perspective.

 

[boosetiger]

Ok guy. But enslaving a whole race of people was just a walk in the park. Thanks for educating me

Dude, the US Constitution enslaved a race of people, not that flag. Educated now?
No one supports what that flag means to me more than I do but it must come down. We can't claim it stands for southern heritage when it doesn't. If we loved it so much we should have been the kicking *** of those who hijacked it.

 

[FreeSC]

The KKK also carries the American Flag and the Christian cross.

I get what you are saying and I certainly understand...however people just don't have a clue when it comes to the history of the flag (and I don't mean you, I mean people in general).

It, like guns, is just an easy out.

Yep
Logic doesn't really work with most people.
It's all about how (the media says you should) FEEL!

I don't feel guilty, not one last iota.

 

[boosetiger]

First off slavery was wrong and second you do realize people on both sides owned slaves?
Go look this up if you like, Robert E Lee released his slaves before the Civil War ended, Sherman and Grant kept their slaves until the 13th amendment almost 2 years after the war ended. There was more to the Civil War than Slavery.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. This the dumbest post I've ever read. Grant and Sherman never owned slaves.

 

[Taylor1111]

this is it for me:

"The fact that it causes pain to so many is enough to move it from the capitol grounds."

Did I miss something? Did a flagpole fall on someone?

 

[SGTiger]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. This the dumbest post I've ever read. Grant and Sherman never owned slaves.

Grant owned slaves

There are other links for Sherman as well. What say you now?

 

[bcs summa]

Haley did tis just to do something, anything to show her remorse over this tragedy. Knee jerk reaction all the way. And I doubt the flag being up causes anybody any "pain" it just pisses them off because it has become a" symbol" of something that they want but haven't been able to get. Squeaky wheel usually gets the grease.

 

[AustinTiger77]

Take the flag away.

She's just providing political cover for the GOP POTUS candidates. This takes all the pressure off them to address the issue, and prevents it from being an issue in the 2016 election cycle. Wouldn't want anything to get more Democrats to vote or God forbid, compel some of the reasonable white people remaining in SC to vote for Hillary...

 

[Clems0nTiger]

Comparing the Confederate Flag to one of a regime that brutally murdered millions of people is ignorant.

But the

You do realize that it wasn't just the South who brought slaves over right? And you do realize that the confederate flag didn't even exist when the slave trade began? And you do realize that this wasnt even the flag of the South?

And none of those other states are flying a confederate flag on their state capitol lawns either. This isn't a contest of who is doing worse or better. Whatever it meant or means to those that continue to cherish it, its branding has changed. The swastika was once a positive symbol as well. Not anymore. That time has passed. So has the confederate flag's time. It's now only associated with KKK, regardless of whether you want it to or not.

 

[kgwillison]

Years ago Mississippi put it up to vote (their state flag contains the confederate flag) and 64% voted to leave it the way it was. I don't know what they voting by demographic was, but at the time, Mississippi was about 61% white....so doing the math, that likely meant many black voted to keep it the way it was.

Have you ever heard the expression "There are 3 kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies and statistics"?

You just fell into the third trap.

Let's say Mississippi was 61 percent white but 90 percent of the voters were white. Because, you know, whites in Mississippi made it so easy for Blacks to vote. So, if the Black voting bloc was 10 percent, it means a significant bloc of whites may have voted against the flag. There is no way the voting was representative of the entire population of Mississippi.

 

[clemsonfn8]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. This the dumbest post I've ever read. Grant and Sherman never owned slaves.

You sir need to look into this a little more.

 

[SWUtigers]

She's just providing political cover for the GOP POTUS candidates. This takes all the pressure off them to address the issue, and prevents it from being an issue in the 2016 election cycle. Wouldn't want anything to get more Democrats to vote or God forbid, compel some of the reasonable white people remaining in SC to vote for Hillary...

 

[jimbob1019]

this is it for me:

"The fact that it causes pain to so many is enough to move it from the capitol grounds."

Causes pain to who?

 

[TigerDutch]

Have you ever heard the expression "There are 3 kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies and statistics"?

You just fell into the third trap.

Let's say Mississippi was 61 percent white but 90 percent of the voters were white. Because, you know, whites in Mississippi made it so easy for Blacks to vote. So, if the Black voting bloc was 10 percent, it means a significant bloc of whites may have voted against the flag. There is no way the voting was representative of the entire population of Mississippi.

And you know this for a fact how? Because you live in NVa? Like to poke fun at this state? Are an elitist jerk? Was the vote in the 1960s? 1970s?

I mean, you quote about lies and then state a state vote does not represent a vote?

Some of you guys want it to be the 60s & 70s all over again. I actually think southerners are going to have a backlash that they don't deserve and fools like you will have their field day. Have your fun, you certainly like to tell people on this board how the South pretty much sucks and is below the areas of the country you've lived in.

And, I'm for the flag being removed. I'm just laughing at some of these fools bringing up what things were in the 60s and that the confederate flag is all over the place. I rarely have seen it on bumper stickers, cars, homes, etc the last 20 or so years and I stay away from the people toting it because they usually look scary.

 

[Ron Munson]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. This the dumbest post I've ever read. Grant and Sherman never owned slaves.

I really hope you are not this dumb, if so you are proving the point of myself and others in this thread. And you also never need to reproduce. I hope you are only 12, because I really can't think of an excuse for your ignorance.

 

[Ron Munson]

Have you ever heard the expression "There are 3 kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies and statistics"?

You just fell into the third trap.

Let's say Mississippi was 61 percent white but 90 percent of the voters were white. Because, you know, whites in Mississippi made it so easy for Blacks to vote. So, if the Black voting bloc was 10 percent, it means a significant bloc of whites may have voted against the flag. There is no way the voting was representative of the entire population of Mississippi.

I vaguely remember a large block of blacks voting to leave it as is, as was the polling in SC. I could Google it and find it, but I don't need to.

 

[GilaMonsta]

@Ron Munson or really anyone....care to answer the question I put forth?

I've asked this a few times over the weekend and still no one has answered, so I'll ask again. Why is it that so many here refuse to acknowledge that were not saying it should come down because of the Civil war? No one gives af about the Civil War. It's about what happened during the 100 years that followed. Please answer me this.

 

[44-16]

Way

Take the flag away.

Way to go Gov. Haley.....caving in to the crybaby, revisionist-history pusscakes. You are quite a leader.

 

[jimbob1019]

First off slavery was wrong and second you do realize people on both sides owned slaves?
Go look this up if you like, Robert E Lee released his slaves before the Civil War ended, Sherman and Grant kept their slaves until the 13th amendment almost 2 years after the war ended. There was more to the Civil War than Slavery.

This is absolutely true...people who think the Civil War was fought over slavery just don't know history. Matter of fact, Abraham Lincoln offered to preserve slavery in an attempt to avert war. The South didn't bite...it wasn't about that for them. I'm not defending slavery as it is & was unequivocally wrong. But some people just don't know their history & a lot of people died for that flag who had absolutely nothing to do with slavery...I guess that doesn't matter though.

 

[kgwillison]

They ARE scary. And if you find it funny to see people quoting the 1960s, you've been might silent about proponents of the flag harking back to "blacks owning slaves" in the 1860s.

And, minorities rarely vote in numbers equal to their population percent. Whether in the 60s, 70s or today. Those are facts, Dutch.

 

[IcelandTiger]

Ok guy. But enslaving a whole race of people was just a walk in the park. Thanks for educating me

I don't care if it comes down or stays but......

The American flag enslaved an entire race of people too. You've been educated.

 

[Ron Munson]

So many potatoes in this thread really need to go study history.

Regardless of how you feel about the flag, facts and facts.

 

[boosetiger]

Grant is said to have owned one slave that was given to him. I guess legally he did own one since he freed him in 1858 or 59. Sherman had slaves serve him while he was the president of LSU. He never owned them. No one in the US had slaves 2 years after the War Between the States (13th Amendment ratified in Dec 1865 for crying out loud). To suggest the two most prominent yankee generals were slaveholders during the war is absurd in the extreme. Still wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. Like you say facts are facts. Get yours straight.