Warching UCF & Temple...

[TU4ever2]

It’s all that matters long term. As I stated earlier, the non-P5 is weaker today on a whole than we’ve ever seen. More money descrepency, attendance, facilities, etc.. iand n the long run and in a macro level it all leads back to $$$.

Please explain why real Madrid, Manchester United, etc don't with their league every year?

Money counts it's far from the only thing.

If it makes you feel more secure about OSU's athletic ability fine.

It's not factual though. History is full of teams and programs who have it all and fail miserably repeatedly. AnM and Texas come to mind, by the way the two richest programs in football. The Big 10 makes the most money but hasn't been the best conference since realignment.

Money doesn't give you wins, you have to earn those on the field, whether it's in front of 100k or 5k.

 

[Barlass]

It’s all that matters long term. As I stated earlier, the non-P5 is weaker today on a whole than we’ve ever seen. More money descrepency, attendance, facilities, etc.. iand n the long run and in a macro level it all leads back to $$$.

It seems like a lot of people believe this (and always have) and yet when given an opportunity, teams from the MW and AAC have consistently beaten these silver spoon programs. It's a false narrative that gets spread around to continue to segregate those outside of the cartel.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

They might crack the top 10 this week. A win against Temple, Florida slaughtered by Mizzou, and Kentucky 17 point loss to Georgia.

 

[lawpoke87]

It seems like a lot of people believe this (and always have) and yet when given an opportunity, teams from the MW and AAC have consistently beaten these silver spoon programs. It's a false narrative that gets spread around to continue to segregate those outside of the cartel.

Unfortunately on a macro level it’s absolutely true. There will always be outliers but the P5 dominate today like never before on a conference level. Look at money, TV, exposure, attendance, access to the final four, etc... I’m not saying that teams from the AAC, MWC, etc..can’t go on winning streaks or occasionally compete. If they do compete for an extended period of time they will no longer be in the AAC, MWC and will join that cartel. Again...I’m not talking about an individual game or team but rather conferences on the whole. It’s a travesty what has occurred in D1 football.

 

[TU4ever2]

Unfortunately on a macro level it’s absolutely true. There will always be outliers but the P5 dominate today like never before on a conference level. Look at money, TV, exposure, attendance, access to the final four, etc... I’m not saying that teams from the AAC, MWC, etc..can’t go on winning streaks or occasionally compete. If they do compete for an extended period of time they will no longer be in the AAC, MWC and will join that cartel. Again...I’m not talking about an individual game or team but rather conferences on the whole. It’s a travesty what has occurred in D1 football.

This is not true. This year has seen more g4 and AAC wins against the A5, the number was up last year from the previous year 2016. Flat before that from 2013-2015. The A5 got a bump when people intially believed as you did. Over time though it has become evident that is not the case. Next year will likely improve on the win total as the MW and AAC have favorable match ups at home against the A5. The gap is closing and it's picking up speed. This reflects similar outcomes in other sports endeavors. The competitiveness of players and expertise of coaches can overcome resource advantages.

 

[lawpoke87]

The problem is outside a few G5 schools no one cares about the head to head records. ESPN certainly doesn’t cover it nor do the other networks. I assume you’re young and have no point of reference as to what college football was like in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. There were no huge conference TV deals. The financial inequities we see today between the P5s and G5’s didn’t exist. Hell...in 1991 we hosted OSU, A&M, Miami and Louisville. We won’t see home games like that in the next 15 years combined.

The P5s own the networks. They own the NCAA. They own the message. They own the revenue sources. It’s unfair. The good news is that the G5 is winning more games against the P5 the last two years. The bad news is that the P5 control the sports media and those facts get buried. In the big picture the P5s continue to get stronger, richer, more powerful and will simply acquire any G5 programs they feel threatened by.

 

[TU4ever2]

The problem is outside a few G5 schools no one cares about the head to head records. ESPN certainly doesn’t cover it nor do the other networks. I assume you’re young and have no point of reference as to what college football was like in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. There were no huge conference TV deals. The financial inequities we see today between the P5s and G5’s didn’t exist. Hell...in 1991 we hosted OSU, A&M, Miami and Louisville. We won’t see home games like that in the next 15 years combined.

The P5s own the networks. They own the NCAA. They own the message. They own the revenue sources. It’s unfair. The good news is that the G5 is winning more games against the P5 the last two years. The bad news is that the P5 control the sports media and those facts get buried. In the big picture the P5s continue to get stronger, richer, more powerful and will simply acquire any G5 programs they feel threatened by.

Just keep moving that goal post.

The AAC has beat the big xii in head to head ratings slots. Has like 8 million plus viewer games this year. ESPN puts the AAC in as many windows of national broadcasts as it does the big xii or the PAC. Army/Notre Dame pulls huge ratings, USF/UCF does too. The championship does incredibly good. We more than double the number of games Disney is required to show in ABC the last two years and have had more than the requirement every year.

Writers are all over the committee about how it treats UCF. NBC, Fox, CBS, and ESPN are in a massive competition they will promote who ever they can.

NBC is likely watching the AAC as we speak and smiling. ESPN snatched us on a match clause from them in 2013. The new contract does not have the match clause. NBC has the money and windows to push the AAC and cut into Disney and Fox's dominance. CBS likes us for basketball and will be bidding for AAC games.

Welcome to the new world, the A5 is not as safe in there high castle of money as they try and make it seem. The AAC's ridiculous contract is nearly up and the competition window is closed between the A5 and everybody else.

 

[lawpoke87]

You’re delusional but I do like the effort. I’m currently watching the SEC, Big12, Pac12, Big10 and ACC in prime time on the five largest sports channels currently broadcasting. Thanks for playing though. Again...money, attendance, TV exposure, NCAA is all controlled by the P5s. I’m talking football only btw. NBC isn’t going to offer the AAC anything comparable to what the other networks have with the P5s btw. Hope they do though. Just don’t see it right now for a conference whose average football attendance is 28k.

We should know which one of us is right in six or so months.

 

[TU4ever2]

You’re delusional but I do like the effort. I’m currently watching the SEC, Big12, Pac12, Big10 and ACC in prime time on the five largest sports channels currently broadcasting. Thanks for playing though. Again...money, attendance, TV exposure, NCAA is all controlled by the P5s. I’m talking football only btw. NBC isn’t going to offer the AAC anything comparable to what the other networks have with the P5s btw. Hope they do though. Just don’t see it right now for a conference whose average football attendance is 28k.

We should know which one of us is right in six or so months.

You really are stuck on money.

Last week you could have watch USF vs Houston on ABC and then Notre Dame vs Navy on CBS.

Tech vs Houston was on Fox.

Temple UCF was on ESPN.

Looks like USF vs Cincy is ESPN with USF's loss but it could be ABC still next week.

But hey thanks for playing. Our ratings rate says it'll be somewhere between 10-12 million a team just so you know, of course ESPN has us in something like 35 windows a year and are losing another 20 games to the ACC network and have maxed the sec, big xii, and PAC versions of their deals. Probably not going to want NBC walk off with that inventory and CBS already buys our inventory at a mark up. They also snatched up the only inventory we didn't have locked in to the ESPN deal with their Navy games. Interestingly they guaranteed the games would be in a particular time slot because they want the inventory so bad.

Do you know what happens when major media companies start fighting over something? Please see the Disney(ABC & ESPN)/Fox/Comcast(NBC)/Sky sales and the huge price mark up that resulted.

By the way the MW is the only other division 1 product available till 2024 and they have made it clear they will look into streaming or require tv partners to ease the late night game times which are killing ticket revenue on cold October and November nights in the mountains in sparsley populated areas where people travel long distances for games.

Their ratings are a third of ours as well with little to no competition while we pull in multi million games vs the A5

 

[lawpoke87]

Texas - OSU was the ABC prime time game last Saturday. WTH are you talking about ? The Houston game was shown at 3:30 on ABC but to only half of the country as it was a regional broadcast.

Has there been an AAC conference game on ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC on Saturday prime time this year ?

We will know in a few months. I’ll stick with my prediction that the AAC’s payout won’t be near that of any P5 conference per team. $10-12M per team is roughly 25% of what the P5s are getting on average btw. Like I said...not close. Personally I hope the AAC gets close to what the P5s are making because it obviously helps TU

 

[Gmoney4WW]

And Pittsburgh knocks off a ranked UVA team. Notre Dame and UCF get a little bump with that.

A&M, Ole Miss, LSU > Pitt & Temple, still.

But yeah, with Florida & Kentucky losing, Pitt beating UVA, and UCF beating Temple, it will be a travesty if they don't make the top ten this week.

 

[TU4ever2]

A&M, Ole Miss, LSU > Pitt & Temple, still.

But yeah, with Florida & Kentucky losing, Pitt beating UVA, and UCF beating Temple, it will be a travesty if they don't make the top ten this week.

Bwahaha one of those is leading their division and one isn't, I'll let you figure out which.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

You’re delusional ....

Nailed it. Weakest division in the ACC < Any division in the SEC.

 

[TU4ever2]

Texas - OSU was the ABC prime time game last Saturday. WTH are you talking about ? The Houston game was shown at 3:30 on ABC but to only half of the country as it was a regional broadcast.

Has there been an AAC conference game on ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC on Saturday prime time this year ?

We will know in a few months. I’ll stick with my prediction that the AAC’s payout won’t be near that of any P5 conference per team. $10-12M per team is roughly 25% of what the P5s are getting on average btw. Like I said...not close. Personally I hope the AAC gets close to what the P5s are making because it obviously helps TU

You get awful specific for what qualifies now, wonder why that is?

Do they have an "oh the places a goal post will go" book?

You're also bad at math or don't know what you are talking about.

Max media deals including everything run 20-25 million for the Big Xii and the ACC right now. 30 million for the SEC and big 10. Their total conference payouts and media money get to about 50ish. That other 20-25 million is them splitting the invitational money.

 

[TU4ever2]

Nailed it. Weakest division in the ACC < Any division in the SEC.

Name brand bias is strong with this one

 

[Gmoney4WW]

If it were the strongest division in the ACC. then u might have an argument.

 

[lawpoke87]

I love Evers enthusiasm. He just needs to be a bit more realistic. See his prediction for the USF - Cincy game being in prime time in ANC or ESPN. It’s on ESPNU during the day btw. I’m afraid he’s going to in for disappointment when our new TV contract is signed and it’s not close to those of the P5s. Sadly...it is what it is currently. Need to get the networks and system out of the pockets of the P5 boys before any significant changes can occur

 

[TU4ever2]

I love Evers enthusiasm. He just needs to be a bit more realistic. See his prediction for the USF - Cincy game being in prime time in ANC or ESPN. It’s on ESPNU during the day btw. I’m afraid he’s going to in for disappointment when our new TV contract is signed and it’s not close to those of the P5s. Sadly...it is what it is currently. Need to get the networks and system out of the pockets of the P5 boys before any significant changes can occur

Sadly Lawpoke will continue to insist on oddly specific items to try and prove his point and protect that poke ego. But I will prove him wrong one more time just for fun.

Notre Dame vs Navy CBS primetime 2.5 million viewers.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

I don't want to take the time to educate you on the media deals and slots because your bias is obvious and blatant. The AAC gets roughly the same number of major time slots on ABC/ESPN as the PAC and Big Xii does.

Does it seem odd to you an organization not wanting to pay retail value is showing a top 25 match up on the U? Particularly after the ratings UCF Temple pulled in?

 

[lawpoke87]

You’re giving a 2-7 Navy team credit for ND’s rating on NBC? A rating ND pulls against any opponent. You’re either a troll or a complete moron.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

You’re giving a 2-7 Navy team credit for ND’s rating on NBC? A rating ND pulls against any opponent. You’re either a troll or a complete moron.

Besides Navy's pull due to being a service academy, totally separate from it's draw as a member of the AAC.

 

[TU4ever2]

You’re giving a 2-7 Navy team credit for ND’s rating on NBC? A rating ND pulls against any opponent. You’re either a troll or a complete moron.

Well first it's Navy's home game, so yes our conference gets credit. Second it's on CBS not NBC and is about what AAC conference games get regularly on OTA broadcasts.

Lastly I found your Cincy vs UCF claim suspicious, especially given that 2-7 Navy vs UCF is on ESPN 2. Turns out you have no idea what you are talking about, surprise surprise.

The Cincy UCF game continues to be open for game time and network per ABC/ESPN's normal procedure for games considered for the prime cfb slots on ESPN and ABC.

If you were an OU fan you would be more familiar with it. As a poke you've probably heard them complain about not finding out start times till days ahead of the game. Also about noon national TV casts.

 

[lawpoke87]

Besides Navy's pull due to being a service academy, totally separate from it's draw as a member of the AAC.

I’m rather uncomfortable with this whole conversation because I feel like I’m borderline dissing the AAC in debating this guy. For the record the AAC is without doubt the 6th best conference in the land and might give the PAC12 a run for its money in the future (I believe the PAC12 is in some trouble). However, the difference in money, attendance, coverage, etc...between the AAC and the P5s remains very large. Again...it is what it is.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Sounds golden to me

 

[lawpoke87]

Well first it's Navy's home game, so yes our conference gets credit. Second it's on CBS not NBC and is about what AAC conference games get regularly on OTA broadcasts.

Lastly I found your Cincy vs UCF claim suspicious, especially given that 2-7 Navy vs UCF is on ESPN 2. Turns out you have no idea what you are talking about, surprise surprise.

The Cincy UCF game continues to be open for game time and network per ABC/ESPN's normal procedure for games considered for the prime cfb slots on ESPN and ABC.

If you were an OU fan you would be more familiar with it. As a poke you've probably heard them complain about not finding out start times till days ahead of the game. Also about noon national TV casts.

Guess you answered my question .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...p-m-on-espnu-south-florida-bulls-american-aac

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I’m rather uncomfortable with this whole conversation because I feel like I’m borderline dissing the AAC in debating this guy.

Sucked us into his vortex, yes troll tu4ever has.

 

[TU4ever2]

I’m rather uncomfortable with this whole conversation because I feel like I’m borderline dissing the AAC in debating this guy. For the record the AAC is without doubt the 6th best conference in the land and might give the PAC12 a run for its money in the future (I believe the PAC12 is in some trouble). However, the difference in money, attendance, coverage, etc...between the AAC and the P5s remains very large. Again...it is what it is.

No moving goal post this time?

Guess that prime time game shut that down.

What you are expressing is p5 bias, lots of p5 fans suffer from it but facts don't support it.

I apologize, I am doing other things and misread the Cincy vs USF as UCF. The window for those thoss to be selected just ended meaning I was correct that it could be selected. USF's loss probably killed it though. So one point for you.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Ha. ha, can't find something to loosey loosely fit into his 'moving goalpost' diatribe so he admits fault.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Guess you answered my question .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...p-m-on-espnu-south-florida-bulls-american-aac

Heaven forbid... the ninth circle of hell, he has me defending Alabama.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Heaven forbid... the ninth circle of hell, he has me defending Alabama.

The tenth circle of hell would be defending Houston and/or SMU.

 

[TU4ever2]

Ha. ha, can't find something to loosey loosely fit into his 'moving goalpost' diatribe so he admits fault.

You're very bad at this aren't you?

He listed one thing after another and finished from we get no exposure to not in prime time.

All of which were proven to be wrong.

I mistake UCF for USF and admit to it and that disproves all my facts? Ok lol.

Trolling for the record is when someone baits you, misleads you, and is just trying to get a response.

Winning a debate is when you support your arguments with facts.

Here is an example from earlier:
An ACC division leading 5-4 team is better than a 5-4 sec team with no shot at it's championship game.

In case you're confused that isn't trolling, thats winning a debate.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

U tell yourself whatever you need to...

 

[Gmoney4WW]

It hasn't happened yet, but here's something to actually ***** and moan about...

If West Virginia who was supposed to be the 13th ranked team in the nation beats Texas, the supposed #17 team in the nation on the road by 1 pt, and then they leapfrog UCF to #10.

They're supposedly ranked four spots better than them, and it should be a pick em type scenario, and they win by one.

If that's enough to leapfrog UCF, then the poll voters for the college football playoff poll should be taken out back and shot.

 

[lawpoke87]

I’ve said all along that one of the reasons the BCS “committee” was formed was to ensure an all P5 final four. Keeping the selections in the hands of the computers or even the AP voters was simply too unpredictable for the powers that be.

Evers I never once said the G5’s get no coverage. What is said was their head to head records against the P5s aren’t covered by ESPN. Please don’t mistate my posts. Anyone who tries to give the AAC TV ratings credit for an NBC ND - Navy game is not only delusional and but very poor at trying to defend a position. ND pulls that prime time number regardless of opponent and Navy pulls it based solely on service members.

As far as TV coverage the biggest college show going is game day. I would venture their coverage is 20-1 in favor of the P5 games when talking about matchups. Tell you what....the ratings for this past weeks games come out tomorrow. I’ll add up total viewers for the P5 games as well as the G5 games and we can see exactly how much coverage and exposure of actual games both are currently receiving. I’ll post those results when their released.

 

[cmullinsTU]

What you are expressing is p5 bias, lots of p5 fans suffer from it but facts don't support it.

You do realize that lawpoke is a massive TU fan and an alumni of both OSU and TU right?

I only ask because you keep alluding to his education, which makes me think you’ve assumed a lot about him based on his screen name without being aware of the facts.

 

[lawpoke87]

You do realize that lawpoke is a massive TU fan and an alumni of both OSU and TU right?

I only ask because you keep alluding to his education, which makes me think you’ve assumed a lot about him based on his screen name without being aware of the facts.

It’s fine. I actually wasn’t a TU fan until law school. Grew up in Sapulpa and my dad was an OU T shirt fan so I in turn I grew up an OU fan. TU had very little presence in Sapulpa during the 70s and early 80s and as such I had zero exposure to the school. Went to my first TU game in 1990 and have made several football and a lot of basketball games every year for the last 28 years. We’re going to be damn good in basketball this year btw.

I am very proud to say not only do I have a TU degree but my wife does as well. I would never have met her if it wasn’t for TU. We’re about as TU as you get.

 

[TU4ever2]

You do realize that lawpoke is a massive TU fan and an alumni of both OSU and TU right?

I only ask because you keep alluding to his education, which makes me think you’ve assumed a lot about him based on his screen name without being aware of the facts.

Yes I do know that, I am also aware that he has a blind spot when it comes to his OSU fandom which is also pretty well known on the board. His attitude is not uncommon or even out of line for a A5 fan in general or an Oklahoma St fan specifically when it comes to the media deals value and exposure.

It's just not accurate. So in this case his OSU supporter colored glasses shade his view on the situation.

The AAC traded money for exposure in this current media deal and has actually been given even more exposure because of their performance by ESPN. The contract forces some sale of inventory to meet linear television appearences required by the contract. This has helped to make the conference more desirable as a media value. CBS buys the games at a mark up and ESPN pockets the money, which is a win win win for all three parties involved.

The reason the contract requires so much exposure is it was initially an offer by NBC who planned to use the best of the AAC games to pair with Notre Dame games and the rest as the center piece of their college coverage for NBC Sports. This means the AAC has roughly the same exposure as the PAC or Big Xii with the extra slots ESPN/ABC have cashed in on and the extra Navy inventory that has been sold.

 

[lawpoke87]

Same exposure as the Big12? Surely you don’t believe that garbage. Let’s look at this upcoming weekend.

AAC games:

Navy - UCF 12:00 ESPN 2
TU - Memphis 12:00 ESPNU
ECU - Tulane 4:00 ESPNN
Cincy - USF 7:00 ESPNU
Temple - Houston 7:00 CBSS

Big12

TCU - WVa 12:00 FS1
Baylor - ISU 3:30 FS1
OSU - OU 3:30 ABC
Texas - Texas Tech 7:30 Fox

Do I need to post how many households each of those carriers reach? Shall I post how many people watch those games combined

OSU - OU or Texas - Tech each will have double the viewers all the AAC games will combined.

Surely you’re trolling with this same exposure....right ? Our current TV exposure leaves much to be desired thanks to our current TV contract. Look at this upcoming week. One game on a semi-major carrier and that’s an 11am central start. I’ll post the viewership numbers next week and compare them to the Big12 but they will be a fraction of their number.

 

[TU4ever2]

Here is the entire year of 2018

2018

AAC-
6 ABC games (1 more is possible),
7 ESPN games
13 to 14 total
**CCG is one of the AAC ABC games

Big12--
ABC-6
ESPN-7
13 total
**CCG is one of the BigXii ABC games


Pac-12--
ABC-3
ESPN-12
15 total

Remember only 3 games are required to be ABC for the AAC contract.

When the deal was signed it gave us almost the same level of exposure as the Big XII and roughly equievelent to the PAC.

Now there are some twists here.

1st Fox signed the PAC and Big Xii to deals that improve their appearences by putting them on Fox this occurred just as Aresco and NBC finished negotiations. The PAC and Big Xii also get stuck on FS1 which brings in way lower ratings than ESPN and ESPN2 generally and even lower than ESPN U. They get in the 300-600k usually, UConn UCF on ESPN U was 450kish.

This did not include Navy inventory which adds 1-2 national broadcasts, mostly on CBS for the history of the current deal. It also doesn't include the CBS sports package because of various carrier deals and ESPN selling off AAC inventory to meet available market and linear television requirements stipulated in the NBC contract they matched.

In head to head time slots in the same network locations Mike Aresco has stated the AAC has beat the Big Xii and the PAC in ratings, although not regularly or by extensive margins. This along with our great national ota numbers in general and the list of roughly 100, million plus viewer games, are his biggest negotiating points.

 

[TU1NNJ]

Let me add my 2 cents to this TV ratings argument:

Approximately 57 years ago I was on the Big Bill and Umagog TV show on channel 2 - KVOO (NBC) at the time. The ratings must have sucked because Big Bill was cancelled and some guy named Mr. Zing went on a multi-year run at channel 8 (ABC) and I was never on that show. TU1NNJ was TU1NOK at the time and had 1 appearance on local NBC and 0 on local ABC. Also my older brother was on channel 6 (CBS) with Lee and King Lionel. It got cancelled too. There was only 3 choices of channels to watch TV in those days so we had no options for Fox, ESPN, etc....

My point - I have none, I just want to keep this thread going and I am really concerned it might die without new content.

Carry on. :smiley:

 

[maverickfp]

I've forgotten the entire purpose of this post.