What I am afraid of. Thiero's intensity, toughness, strength and playing within himself, there is not another guy on the team like that. Going to the bench would not be right and to me would make Cal an even more lousy human being the way he treats some players.
Wagner can’t shoot!
- Thread starter Gus Polinski
- Start date
I don't think it's about "I want to get this guy to the NBA and I don't care about getting the others to the NBA." It's about letting your best players find their way so that we can reach our highest ceiling.
1. Wagner wasn't awful in the other 2 games. He shot 42%. He had 7 assists over those 2 games. And sure, this is the first good opponent. But it's not like he's been terrible all season.
2. Wagner was viewed as the higher rated college/NBA prospect after 4 years of evaluation. By people that are paid to evaluate this. I don't know that 3 games into a season, we can correctly decided that they were wrong on Wagner.
3. I think in order for us to reach our highest ceiling, we need our most talented players to be our best players. And I think Cal thinks that. I believe that's why he affords them more leash early on. And, again, Wagner wasn't bad in the 1st 2 games.
4. Dillingham is being used just fine to showcase him for the NBA. Dude is averaging 16 points a game and lighting it up from 3.
I don't think Reed Sheperd is a build around player.
He's very talented and a good piece. But he's not the best player on a national championship team. He's talented enough to have the best game from time to time.
That's a fine argument.
But you don't keep the spare on your car and "build around it." You want to have the higher rated tire for the long haul because that's going to get you the farthest.
Sheppard evaluates the floor better than anyone else on the team not named Tre Mitchell. He knows where the easy play is, isn't a stat hound, and he has enough skill to both facilitate and score. To me, he sounds exactly like the kind of player you build a team around. He reminds me of the two guards that Calipari had at UMass when we played them back in 96.
Experts are already shifting gears on Wagner. Experts are already saying Dilly may be the best prospect on the team.
You use the spare until the tire is fixed. Let Reed play DJ watch and work it out in practice
You understand that those two teams we played to begin the season are potentially two of the worst teams in D1 basketball, right? Same goes for the next team we play. These teams aren’t just bad - they’re utterly terrible.
His dad was the MOP of the FF. Shep has that potential, even if he plays more like his mom. He's a floor general, like Travis Ford or Anthony Epps.
Point #1 is irrelevant. We played NOBODY. And for the next three games his stats won't mean anything either.
Ok, well conceding that the 1st 2 games mean nothing because we played nobody
We have ONE game off which to evaluate DJ. Can we really decide anything about him? I don't think so.
I could see him doing that on a team full of very talented players. I think he's good enough to be the guy that produces really well on a team where the defense can't treat him as the primary focus.
I just don't think you have him as your best player and build everything around him.
Sure.
So by that, we only have ONE game from which we can even evaluate DJ. And you're deciding he's awful after 1 game. Seems like the wrong way to do it.
If we're still talking tires, you don't ride the spare long ever. It's not meant for that. You don't drive from Kentucky to Glendale on a spare tire.
It’s nice to live in an age where we can actually break down the data, and give honest assessments about what guys are capable of against real competition.
I’ve gotten tired of people on this board over the years pointing to this player or that player’s averages without considering what their numbers against real competition look like.
I am confident that when we play Miami, UNC, Gonzaga, etc. there’s certain dudes on this team that will again struggle. I don’t want that to happen, but I’m confident that it will.
He may be. I don't think Cal is failing to let him show his talent to the NBA. The dude is getting minutess and playing well.
I'll agree he needs more minutes. But I still think DJ is a top 10 pick, and is going to figure it out real soon.
And if that happens, then I'll change my tune on DJ.
But if we're saying the 1st 2 games don't count--he's had 1 game in which we can even evaluate him.
You've already decided he's going to be bad vs every other good team we play. There's just not enough tape at this point to make that call.
I don’t think he’s going to play poorly against every single good team we play. But I do think that he and Edwards and Reeves are not finished being exposed.
And the really bad news for Wagner is that everyone is going to sag off of him from here on out. If getting to the rack is his specialty it’s going to be much more difficult to do that when no one respects his jumper.
Maybe.
At this point, we've got one game worth of data. We can both project, but there's really no way to know anything.
We've got 4 years of high school data suggesting he's going to be a very good basketball player vs 1 college game suggesting he's not. I'm not changing my mind on anyone over 1 game.
I understand.
This is what Sports Illustrated has to say:
“Going 1-of-12 in any game is abysmal. Doing it in a big time game is worse.
Wagner has yet to find his shot three games into the season, and if it continues, there may be a need to have a conversation about Kentucky's guard rotation before SEC play.”
Sure.
If it continues.
I think we have to see more than 1 game against a "real opponent" before saying anything is definitive.
If he comes out and plays like crap against UNC and Miami, I'll concede he was overrated and needs less minutes. I tend to think he's going to find his way.
I don't follow bb as closely as most of you do but doesn't Cal usually play the highly ranked frosh until the Xmas break? Seems like that's when he make a lineup adjustment.
I dont have a problem with the shooting, every player has an off night.
However, the effort\body language was inexcuasable. On at least two occassions he missed a shot, jogged back and allowed Kansas either a 3 pointer or three point play.
He is in an unenviable position. Sheppard is going to be the the golden child of this team, perhaps righfully so. Wagner is going to have to work doubly hard to keep Sheppard in his rear view mirror, and even that may not be enough
Jaking it on defense is not going to get it done.
It's going to be interesting to see how Cal handles it. Recent history portends that this could get real messy.
It's already starting.
However, the effort\body language was inexcuasable. On at least two occassions he missed a shot, jogged back and allowed Kansas either a 3 pointer or three point play.
He is in an unenviable position. Sheppard is going to be the the golden child of this team, perhaps righfully so. Wagner is going to have to work doubly hard to keep Sheppard in his rear view mirror, and even that may not be enough
Jaking it on defense is not going to get it done.
It's going to be interesting to see how Cal handles it. Recent history portends that this could get real messy.
It's already starting.
If DJ was nervous, his ability to handle the ball would be affected, but it isn't. He just can't shoot.
We’ll see. I’m not a hater fan like many on here. I like to be positive. He just doesn’t look that good. He isn’t an explosive athlete. I’m not sure what he does that well.
Maybe he’ll change. Maybe it’s a comfort thing or whatever.
Cal said he has to learn who needs to be in late in the games. I would say when you are maintaining a lead with the five out there leave them alone! Probably cost us the game with his stupid substitution. Don't mess up what is working the last seven minutes!
I too am not a hater who remains overly optimistic porbably too often; he isnt as advertised for sure; but i also wouldnt call him non-explosive. He can get to the rim well, and ive seen him finish and the floater he has is top notch... he just didnt even try much vs KU
This is from NBAdraft.net where Wagner is listed as the potential 30th pick. And it's very recent, but doesn't factor in his 3/8 FG, 1/4 3FG outing. It is very fitting given OP's thread title as DJ is literally shooting his way out of the first round.
30. Boston DJ Wagner 6-3 185 SG Kentucky Fr.
Wagner came in as one of the top recruits in the country and while he’s been solid, he’s slid some as a draft prospect due to lack of efficiency, in particular shooting. He’s shooting just 31%, 15-48 from distance through 14 games. his game is predicated on being a scorer, which means being able to shoot is imperative for his game. While the team has been experimenting with putting him more on the ball as a point in order to get him involved more in playmaking, he remains just average in isolation due to a lack of length and speed off the dribble. He still has a chance to improve his stock and cement a spot in the first round, but he’ll need to keep scoring at a consistent clip and continue to raise his efficiency numbers. At 6-3 and without a big wingspan, a team drafting Wagner will be banking on his shot improving.
30. Boston DJ Wagner 6-3 185 SG Kentucky Fr.
Wagner came in as one of the top recruits in the country and while he’s been solid, he’s slid some as a draft prospect due to lack of efficiency, in particular shooting. He’s shooting just 31%, 15-48 from distance through 14 games. his game is predicated on being a scorer, which means being able to shoot is imperative for his game. While the team has been experimenting with putting him more on the ball as a point in order to get him involved more in playmaking, he remains just average in isolation due to a lack of length and speed off the dribble. He still has a chance to improve his stock and cement a spot in the first round, but he’ll need to keep scoring at a consistent clip and continue to raise his efficiency numbers. At 6-3 and without a big wingspan, a team drafting Wagner will be banking on his shot improving.
I noticed today that the offense just STOPPED when DJ had the ball. What he wants to do is put his head down and drive, and the rest of the guys just stop and watch. How often does he call plays? Why do the other guys not just move irrespective to what he's doing, and get open should he decide to kick it out? I don't feel like this is a problem when Dilly is running things, or when Reed has the ball.
I think he does that ISO stuff because it's the only thing he's somewhat good at. And I say "somewhat" because he still misses a lot of those shots near the basket and gets the ball stripped often (two times tonight).
On top of that, he doesn't draw fouls enough on the drives either. With his lack of quickness, he must be strong at the basket. But he doesn't like contact, so it makes it even worse.
Someone in another thread said that he is the ranked last on the team in Offensive efficiency. That means with all of the scoring options on this team, he needs to shoot WAY less than he has so far this season.
He's also ranked 4th on the team in assists. MITCHELL is third.
Wagner needs work. He has potential, but he's very raw in every part of the game.
I don't think we can win #9 without DJW and a improved defense. All three of our guards bring a little something different to the table which is a good thing. He is good on defense, excellent driving the ball and improving on his outside shot, good on passing, plays hard all the time. The ball sticks in his hand a little.
Latest
-
01
KSR Football
How Kentucky has performed as power conference home favorite
-
02
KSR Football
Listen to KSR's Pregame Show before Kentucky hosts Florida under the lights
-
03
KSR Football
College Football's Top Receiver is a Kentucky Native
-
04
KSR Football
College GameDay is Picking Kentucky to Beat Florida (and I don't like it)
-
05
KSR Football
Brad White's Florida Defense has Similar Issues to Late Kentucky Struggles