Vertical Paasing game in JoMo's offense

[bruiser.sixpack]

I have seen a big of discussion about using the vertical passing game to open up the run game more in JoMo's offense by keeping opponents from loading the box. But I thought that was what the spread was designed to do.

You have a QB/RB in back field and 4 WR's occupying their defenders out wide. That gives the defense 7 players to defend runs near the LOS. With a drop back passer that is historically 7 defenders in the box against 5 OL blocking so they out number you by two, who are free to make a tackle. If you have a QB with a RPO, then that evens it up inside because the RB becomes a blocker and the QB either has to make the remaining Guy Miss and if the run isn't there throw to a WR. Maybe I am missing the design of the RPO in the spread offense.*

 

[KeyserSoze1999]

You're right. The formations / wideouts do occupy the defenders, however this past season once Donald Grey was injured the deep threat feature of our Offense was lost. That fact plus Fitzgerald's running ability caused opposing Defenses to just stack the box against us...they were not afraid of getting beat deep by small Slot WRs and our 280 lbs TE.

So we didn't really have the available personnel to threaten the Defense. I am hoping that next year our Spread scheme combined with a couple of rangy deep threat WRs will open up our Offense even more for Fitz and A-Train to run.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

You have a QB/RB in back field and 4 WR's occupying their defenders out wide. That gives the defense 7 players to defend runs near the LOS. With a drop back passer that is historically 7 defenders in the box against 5 OL blocking so they out number you by two, who are free to make a tackle.

A couple of things. In this situation, you are almost always going to have a safety 10-15 yards deep, so he is not really in the box. It's more of a 6 on 6. The problem is what Keyser says, there's so little deep threat everyone from the safety to the slot rolls up. Part of it is personnel, but it's also route concepts.

Much like the Dallas Cowboys, the routes tend to be staggered in depth, but nearly entirely flat or coming back to the ball in the Muffin offense. I mean I would guess it has been a 10-1 ratio of in routes vs posts over the last 9 years. I think that is a big reason we have had so few big passing plays, receivers never have momentum heading toward the end zone when they catch the ball unless it's a go route, which is much harder to complete with the lack of speed possessed by our receivers. Think Jerry Rice, not the fastest guy, but he could take a slant or post to the house every week. (Just an example, I know talent wise it's a silly comparison.)

In Moorhead's offense, he runs almost exclusively 11 personnel, which is 3wr, 1te, and 1 rb. It's goal is almost the exact opposite goal of Muddin's offense. For the last 9 years, the goal has been to spread the defense out in order to create an advantage in the running game. It uses the threat of the pass to set up the run. Moorhead sets up the passing game with the run. The QB reads the safety in the RPO, with a goal of catching him rolling up to burn him deep. He will get the safety cheating with underneath routes to the tight end too.

End result, I think we end with more 40+ yard passing plays next season than we have had in the last 3 years combined. Add in some legit playmaking receiver depth and it could be fun. I think Fitz will have a lot more success on the deep ball too. The vertical route down the sideline has a small bucket to be dropped in because the depth of throw has to be perfect. The posts and corners have a lot of field to work with so you can throw it to the open portion of the field and let receivers change the angle to give a much bigger room for error on the depth of the pass.

 

[LilSebastian]

I have seen a big of discussion about using the vertical passing game to open up the run game more in JoMo's offense by keeping opponents from loading the box. But I thought that was what the spread was designed to do.

You have a QB/RB in back field and 4 WR's occupying their defenders out wide. That gives the defense 7 players to defend runs near the LOS. With a drop back passer that is historically 7 defenders in the box against 5 OL blocking so they out number you by two, who are free to make a tackle. If you have a QB with a RPO, then that evens it up inside because the RB becomes a blocker and the QB either has to make the remaining Guy Miss and if the run isn't there throw to a WR. Maybe I am missing the design of the RPO in the spread offense.*

You’re not wrong, you just have it backwards. The option doesn’t use offensive personnel to create numbers, it forces decisions of defenders and seeks to make them wrong. You can’t go out there with 12 guys, so you the defense have one less by attempting to make him wrong no matter what he does.

The Read Optiom gives you a numbers advantage by your OL blocking to one side of the field (play side), picking one D-lineman to leave unblocked. If the d-lineman goes to the play side, the QB runs the ball to the back side of the line. If the d-lineman hesitates or goes for the QB, the QB hands off to the RB who now has an extra blocker and has already beaten one lineman. In this case, you aren’t creating a numbers problem at the snap; you’re picking a defender and taking him out of the play.

The RPO works the same way, typically reading a safety or OLB. If the safety plays toward the LOS (cover 1), that gives you single coverage on the outside, where the WR has the advantage. If the safety plays back (cover 2), you’ll often see a quick slant to the WR, simply because there’s a vacuum in the middle of the field. Similar to the zone read, we aren’t trotting out there with an extra guy, we’re taking out their guy.

The spread bolsters the option by giving the QB more room to make decisions. If there are 20 players all in a 10 x 10 box, the QB has less margin for error — who cares if the safety is out of place if the OLB is right there. Further, the spread stresses defenders by giving them more ground to cover. You’re starting to see safeties cover over the top of the two DBs. If he’s out wide, he’s a non factor against the run OR against a shallow crossing route because he simply can’t get there in time.

 

[mount lefroy]

You’re not wrong, you just have it backwards. The option doesn’t use offensive personnel to create numbers, it forces decisions of defenders and seeks to make them wrong. You can’t go out there with 12 guys, so you the defense have one less by attempting to make him wrong no matter what he does.

The Read Optiom gives you a numbers advantage by your OL blocking to one side of the field (play side), picking one D-lineman to leave unblocked. If the d-lineman goes to the play side, the QB runs the ball to the back side of the line. If the d-lineman hesitates or goes for the QB, the QB hands off to the RB who now has an extra blocker and has already beaten one lineman. In this case, you aren’t creating a numbers problem at the snap; you’re picking a defender and taking him out of the play.

The RPO works the same way, typically reading a safety or OLB. If the safety plays toward the LOS (cover 1), that gives you single coverage on the outside, where the WR has the advantage. If the safety plays back (cover 2), you’ll often see a quick slant to the WR, simply because there’s a vacuum in the middle of the field. Similar to the zone read, we aren’t trotting out there with an extra guy, we’re taking out their guy.

The spread bolsters the option by giving the QB more room to make decisions. If there are 20 players all in a 10 x 10 box, the QB has less margin for error — who cares if the safety is out of place if the OLB is right there. Further, the spread stresses defenders by giving them more ground to cover. You’re starting to see safeties cover over the top of the two DBs. If he’s out wide, he’s a non factor against the run OR against a shallow crossing route because he simply can’t get there in time.

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