Upper Tier Quad 1 True Road Games

[UK67KU59]

The only team in the top 25 of the NET rankings to have more upper tier Q1 true road games than Kentucky is Villanova, which has 6 currently. Along with Kentucky, there are a handful (TTU, Texas, Tennessee) that have 5.

At the end of the regular season Gonzaga will have played 6 true road games. Kentucky will have played 6 true road games in the upper tier of Q1 - and 9 in Q1 as a whole. Assuming everyone's NET ranking remains unchanged. Their best Q1 road game will have been against NET 21 St. Mary's College.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2022/net-teamsheets-plus

 

[akaukswoosh]

Villanova was highly thought of at the beginning of the season. Got beat up pretty bad with that tough road schedule, slipped in the polls, but I think they will be a tough out in March.

 

[bbnkat02]

Just shows why the Zags usually don’t win it all. They don’t play anybody. They have to rely on superior talent to beat you. And I don’t think they have that this year.

 

[chroix]

The only team in the top 25 of the NET rankings to have more upper tier Q1 true road games than Kentucky is Villanova, which has 6 currently. Along with Kentucky, there are a handful (TTU, Texas, Tennessee) that have 5.

At the end of the regular season Gonzaga will have played 6 true road games. Kentucky will have played 6 true road games in the upper tier of Q1 - and 9 in Q1 as a whole. Assuming everyone's NET ranking remains unchanged. Their best Q1 road game will have been against NET 21 St. Mary's College.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2022/net-teamsheets-plus

Nice break down OP.

 

[Atrain7732]

Unrelated, but I was wondering if the SEC reg season title is only 1 team or do they have co-champions if there is a tie?

I think in years past they have done co-champions, but seem to remember that it may have switched to only one team with the tie-breaker head to head record. Not that its some huge achievement UK has like 100 SEC titles was just curious.

 

[Rush2112 UK]

Just shows why the Zags usually don’t win it all. They don’t play anybody. They have to rely on superior talent to beat you. And I don’t think they have that this year.

"Usually?"

 

[fatguy87]

Except for seeding considerations, quality of road games has little bearing on actual tournament performance.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

The only team in the top 25 of the NET rankings to have more upper tier Q1 true road games than Kentucky is Villanova, which has 6 currently. Along with Kentucky, there are a handful (TTU, Texas, Tennessee) that have 5.

At the end of the regular season Gonzaga will have played 6 true road games. Kentucky will have played 6 true road games in the upper tier of Q1 - and 9 in Q1 as a whole. Assuming everyone's NET ranking remains unchanged. Their best Q1 road game will have been against NET 21 St. Mary's College.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2022/net-teamsheets-plus

I know Gonzaga's conference is a joke, but how do they only play 6 road games in conference?

 

[permdaddy_rivals45705]

Unrelated, but I was wondering if the SEC reg season title is only 1 team or do they have co-champions if there is a tie?

I think in years past they have done co-champions, but seem to remember that it may have switched to only one team with the tie-breaker head to head record. Not that its some huge achievement UK has like 100 SEC titles was just curious.

Regular Season Champion The team with the highest percentage of wins during regular-season Conference competition will be declared the Conference champion. In order to be awarded the regular season championship, a team should complete at least two-thirds (or 66 percent) of scheduled conference contests. For the 2021 Conference season, men’s basketball teams must complete at least 12 games and women’s basketball teams must complete at least 11 games.

SEC champion and seeding

 

[Atrain7732]

Regular Season Champion The team with the highest percentage of wins during regular-season Conference competition will be declared the Conference champion. In order to be awarded the regular season championship, a team should complete at least two-thirds (or 66 percent) of scheduled conference contests. For the 2021 Conference season, men’s basketball teams must complete at least 12 games and women’s basketball teams must complete at least 11 games.

SEC champion and seeding

Thanks

 

[Lempface]

Except for seeding considerations, quality of road games has little bearing on actual tournament performance.

This is not true. Playing tough road games prepares a team for the tournament. It's why we see the Zag's not able to close the deal, they play no one home or away.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Just shows why the Zags usually don’t win it all. They don’t play anybody. They have to rely on superior talent to beat you. And I don’t think they have that this year.

No one wins it all on a consistent basis.

 

[GoZags_rivals83639]

I know Gonzaga's conference is a joke, but how do they only play 6 road games in conference?

COVID 19 cancellations took out 2 road WCC games. Their high profile, on campus home and home (Texas) started at GU and this year's Arizona road game was mutually scratched after Tommy Lloyd took the Arizona job.

So Gonzaga's schtick is to play a handful of upper tier "neutral site" games in NBA/NHL arenas and a couple of upper tier "home and homes".

The Zags ended up 3-1 vs the Committees Top 16. Double digit wins over Texas Tech (at the Suns' arena), Double digit wins against UCLA and Texas ... and a 3 point loss to Duke.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

No one wins it all on a consistent basis.

The Zags have never won it. Big difference.

 

[kyjeff1]

Except for seeding considerations, quality of road games has little bearing on actual tournament performance.

Yup, a home win against Saint Marys college is exactly the same as an 18 point road win at Kansas. That is soooo awesome.

 

[kyjeff1]

The Zags ended up 3-1 vs the Committees Top 16. Double digit wins over Texas Tech (at the Suns' arena), Double digit wins against UCLA and Texas ... and a 3 point loss to Duke.

I love how you left it at the top 16.. That way, you don't have to bring up that Alabama loss. Cute.

Gonzaga is 3-2 against legit competition.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

I love how you left it at the top 16.. That way, you don't have to bring up that Alabama loss. Cute.

Gonzaga is 3-2 against legit competition.

I agree, that was funny. Yes, they are 3-2 and are a very good team but they are not some juggernaut.

 

[fatguy87]

This is not true. Playing tough road games prepares a team for the tournament. It's why we see the Zag's not able to close the deal, they play no one home or away.

You have any objective evidence or just feel good stories about toughness?

The "No tough road games" or "weak conference doesn't prepare team for the tournament" were the same exact criticisms levied at UK by rival fans for the first few years of the Calipari era.

 

[Lempface]

You have any objective evidence or just feel good stories about toughness?

Gonzaga has not played a tough schedule after Nov in many years. They also have not beaten a top 4 seed.

 

[fatguy87]

If mid major conferences tend to underperform relative to their apparent strength, there's a lot of money to be made in vegas lol

 

[fatguy87]

Gonzaga has not played a tough schedule after Nov in many years. They also have not beaten a top 4 seed.

You have yet to establish that schedule even matters to tournament performance.

Of course, it's convenient to ignore how all those tough road games helped major conference teams that lost against mid majors in the early rounds of the tournament.

 

[kyjeff1]

You have any objective evidence or just feel good stories about toughness?

The "No tough road games" or "weak conference doesn't prepare team for the tournament" were the same exact criticisms levied at UK by rival fans for the first few years of the Calipari era.

To be fair, while we had a lot of high seeds and supreme talent, we got upset more times than not and we only have 1 title to show for all the talent that was on those teams.

That kinda puts a bit of weight on the SOS argument.

2010 couldn't shoot, the SEC didn’t expose that.
2011 and 2014 couldn't stop good guards, the SEC didn’t expose that.
2018… ugh
2016, never ran into a good team with a legit big, that bit us against IU.

The SEC was very weak back then and they did little to prepare UK for the tournament.

But then again, the BIG10 and BIG12 are always thought to be extremely strong, but the fold like a cheap lawn chair in the tournament every year.

 

[kyjeff1]

You have yet to establish that schedule even matters to tournament performance.

Of course, it's convenient to ignore how all those tough road games helped major conference teams that lost against mid majors in the early rounds of the tournament.

It's certainly helping Gonzaga get 1 seeds. They get an easier path because of it.

If they played in any power 5 conference, not named the ACC, they would have a lot more losses and probably wouldn't be in line for a 1 seed.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

It's certainly helping Gonzaga get 1 seeds. They get an easier path because of it.

If they played in any power 5 conference, not named the ACC, they would have a lot more losses and probably wouldn't be in line for a 1 seed.

I would like to see them in the Pac 12. That would help Gonzaga out, but when Arizona and Gonzaga and UCLA all have to play each other 2 times (most years), then someone has to lose. It would eliminate either Arizona or Gonzaga as a 1...freeing up another team to get that 1.

 

[GoZags_rivals83639]

I love how you left it at the top 16.. That way, you don't have to bring up that Alabama loss. Cute.

Gonzaga is 3-2 against legit competition.

"Gonzaga is 3-2 against legit competition."
--------
Okay .. the Zags are 5-2 vs current KenPom Top 25. 5 double digit wins and 2 single digit losses. UK is 3-4 vs current KenPom Top 25. Congrats on that one (1) double digit win ... and too bad about that double digit loss.

Zags are 4-2 vs current AP Top 25. 4 double digit wins and 2 single digit losses. UK is 4-4 vs current AP Top 25.

Other than that, good point.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

"Gonzaga is 3-2 against legit competition."
--------
Okay .. the Zags are 5-2 vs current KenPom Top 25. 5 double digit wins and 2 single digit losses. UK is 3-4 vs current KenPom Top 25. Congrats on that one (1) double digit win ... and too bad about that double digit loss.

Zags are 4-2 vs current AP Top 25. 4 double digit wins and 2 single digit losses. UK is 4-4 vs current AP Top 25.

Other than that, good point.

Injuries have a ton to do with UK's record. You wouldn't know anything about that despite lurching on a UK basketball message board I am sure.

And AP top 25 is a joke. Bama was 26th when UK won there on the road by double digits the first game and there is no way there are 25 teams better than Bama as committee almost had them in top 16. You remember Alabama right?

 

[GoZags_rivals83639]

Injuries have a ton to do with UK's record. You wouldn't know anything about that despite lurching on a UK basketball message board I am sure.

On the contrary, what your guys did last weekend with their starting backcourt out was amazing and deserving of a "Tip o' the Cap".

I'm guessing few of the UK faithful are aware that Gonzaga (despite playing in the WCC) has the highest winning percentage among all of college basketball in wins over the Top 6 conferences (P5 plus B East). Zags are 0.780 (39-11) since the '16/'17 season. 6 of those games were at "home" ... 44 away or neutral and none (other than Washington) were against the bottom half of any Top 6 conference.

 

[YouKay]

Villanova was highly thought of at the beginning of the season. Got beat up pretty bad with that tough road schedule, slipped in the polls, but I think they will be a tough out in March.

They had a couple of guys taking time to return from injuries. They’re pretty healthy now and a damn good team. I sure would not want UK to face them in a S16 game in Philly.

 

[GoZags_rivals83639]

Injuries have a ton to do with UK's record. You wouldn't know anything about that despite lurching on a UK basketball message board I am sure.

And AP top 25 is a joke. Bama was 26th when UK won there on the road by double digits the first game and there is no way there are 25 teams better than Bama as committee almost had them in top 16. You remember Alabama right?

Yes ... I remember Alabama and counted them for UK (as they account for 1/2 your wins over the current AP ... and KenPom Top 25). Edited to say I think you guys had Fraud-burn until TyTy went down.

Zags had a tough time overcoming Bama's free throw shooting defense. Mixed into the 13-25 was their 0-6 on the front end of 1 and 1's. Losses happen ... and GU owns that loss.

 

[Lempface]

"Gonzaga is 3-2 against legit competition."
--------
Okay .. the Zags are 5-2 vs current KenPom Top 25. 5 double digit wins and 2 single digit losses. UK is 3-4 vs current KenPom Top 25. Congrats on that one (1) double digit win ... and too bad about that double digit loss.

Zags are 4-2 vs current AP Top 25. 4 double digit wins and 2 single digit losses. UK is 4-4 vs current AP Top 25.

Other than that, good point.

LOL, thanks for showing up to defend your team. Nice 3-2 record btw, something to be proud of. Glad you need us to respect your team to feel relevant.

 

[kyjeff1]

"Gonzaga is 3-2 against legit competition."
--------
Okay .. the Zags are 5-2 vs current KenPom Top 25. 5 double digit wins and 2 single digit losses. UK is 3-4 vs current KenPom Top 25. Congrats on that one (1) double digit win ... and too bad about that double digit loss.

Zags are 4-2 vs current AP Top 25. 4 double digit wins and 2 single digit losses. UK is 4-4 vs current AP Top 25.

Other than that, good point.

Yeah, saint Mary's college counts as a top 25 win. Give me a break.

3 of UK wins and losses, are true road games at LSU, at Auburn and at Tennessee. Got one loss to duke in the first game of the season and a true road loss at Notre dame.

UK also blew the doors off KU in Lawrence, KS, does Gonzaga have anything close to that? No, they don't.

You have no idea what teams lije UK deal withwhen going on the road, heck, Gonzaga has played a total of 6 road games all season and all of those games were against mid-major competition. What a joke.

Nice try though, you actually tried to compare Gonzaga's neutral court victories to UK's games that were played in opponents arenas. Typical **** take by a typical Gonzaga fan. That’s right, hide the facts.

Oh hey, let me know if you want to compare common foes. Our conversation about Alabama, should be fun for you.

 

[GoZags_rivals83639]

LOL, thanks for showing up to defend your team. Nice 3-2 record btw, something to be proud of. Glad you need us to respect your team to feel relevant.

Glad you guys feel the need to start dozens of threads a week (like this one) about lowly Gonzaga and their schedule.
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Some cherry picked stats

Most NCAA TOURNAMENT wins since 2015
Gonzaga 20, Nova 17, UNC 16, Duke 15, Kentucky 13, Michigan 13, Virginia 11, Baylor 9
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Most FINAL FOUR wins since 2017
UNC 2, Nova 2, Virginia 2, Baylor 2, Gonzaga 2, Michigan 1, TexasTech 1, Kentucky 0, Duke 0, Kansas 0

 

[kyjeff1]

On the contrary, what your guys did last weekend with their starting backcourt out was amazing and deserving of a "Tip o' the Cap".

I'm guessing few of the UK faithful are aware that Gonzaga (despite playing in the WCC) has the highest winning percentage among all of college basketball in wins over the Top 6 conferences (P5 plus B East). Zags are 0.780 (39-11) since the '16/'17 season. 6 of those games were at "home" ... 44 away or neutral and none (other than Washington) were against the bottom half of any Top 6 conference.

How many of those power 5 wins took place in true road environments? I'll wait.

I ask, because at least half of UK's power 5 games, are played in true road environments where the opposing fans are jacked up. Do you realize how hard it is to win games in that kind of setting?

Then turn around and have to do it again 4 nights later?

 

[GoZags_rivals83639]

Yeah, saint Mary's college counts as a top 25 win. Give me a break.

3 of UK wins and losses, are true road games at LSU, at Auburn and at Tennessee. Got one loss to duke in the first game of the season and a true road loss at Notre dame.

UK also blew the doors off KU in Lawrence, KS, does Gonzaga have anything close to that? No, they don't.

You have no idea what teams lije UK deal withwhen going on the road, heck, Gonzaga has played a total of 6 road games all season and all of those games were against mid-major competition. What a joke.

Nice try though, you actually tried to compare Gonzaga's neutral court victories to UK's games that were played in opponents arenas. Typical **** take by a typical Gonzaga fan. That’s right, hide the facts.

Oh hey, let me know if you want to compare common foes. Our conversation about Alabama, should be fun for you.

Since you've brought up St. Mary's ... how'd you guys do against Notre Dame? Oh ... let me guess. You had injuries ... or mean refs ... or both.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Yeah I'm sorry but I can't buy the fact that a weak conference schedule hurts a team like Gonzaga when they have been to not one but two title games in recent years.

Conversely, I've watched the Big 10 last year get a ton of teams in and the claim was oh best conference they are battled test and well they did nothing. Or the fact that the Big 12 has been ranked the best conference in America for god knows how many years. How have they done in the tournament?

UK played in a weak SEC conference so many years under Cal. That didn't seem to hurt our tournament progress.

This is something about people just say and I'm sure even believe. But there's no truth to it. There's no evidence whatsoever.

 

[kyjeff1]

Since you've brought up St. Mary's ... how'd you guys do against Notre Dame? Oh ... let me guess. You had injuries ... or mean refs ... or both.

I can guarantee you this, that arena wasn't anywhere near as jacked up for SMC as they were for UK. They even retired Laphanso Ellis' jersey that night, it was a huge production that SMC didn’t have to deal with. But hey, way to hide behind SMC's accomplishment. What a joke.

Since the ND loss, UK has beaten, WKU, uNC and Tennessee by 30 points each and they had KU down by 24, in Lawrence, before letting off the gas.

Let me know when you can dig up any wins as impressive as those (you can't, sadly, Portland state school of the def, dumb and blind, isn’t really that good of a win).

All I see is a loss in your own backyard to a middle of the road SEC team and some okay neutral court wins. Congrats.

 

[Montana81]

They had a couple of guys taking time to return from injuries. They’re pretty healthy now and a damn good team. I sure would not want UK to face them in a S16 game in Philly.

that’s one scenario that is starting to take shape that i’m afraid of. i’ve seen a lot of projections that have us and them as the 2 and 3 in philly. that would be ******** but at the same time it’s hard for the committee to avoid those kind of things all together. personally if nova is not a 1 seed they shouldn’t be in philly. at that point you’re punishing the 1 and 2 seed in that region by setting up a potential road game against a lower seed.

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah I'm sorry but I can't buy the fact that a weak conference schedule hurts a team like Gonzaga when they have been to not one but two title games in recent years.

Conversely, I've watched the Big 10 last year get a ton of teams in and the claim was oh best conference they are battled test and well they did nothing. Or the fact that the Big 12 has been ranked the best conference in America for god knows how many years. How have they done in the tournament?

UK played in a weak SEC conference so many years under Cal. That didn't seem to hurt our tournament progress.

This is something about people just say and I'm sure even believe. But there's no truth to it. There's no evidence whatsoever.

To me, it's not so much about preperation, it's about awarding a team, like Gonzaga, with a 1 seed when their best competition in 3 months was St Mary's and everyone thinking that's equal to what the competitors from the power 5 conferences deal with.

Gonzaga is very good, but if they were in a power 5 conference, they woukd have more than 2 losses.

 

[Montana81]

Yeah I'm sorry but I can't buy the fact that a weak conference schedule hurts a team like Gonzaga when they have been to not one but two title games in recent years.

Conversely, I've watched the Big 10 last year get a ton of teams in and the claim was oh best conference they are battled test and well they did nothing. Or the fact that the Big 12 has been ranked the best conference in America for god knows how many years. How have they done in the tournament?

UK played in a weak SEC conference so many years under Cal. That didn't seem to hurt our tournament progress.

This is something about people just say and I'm sure even believe. But there's no truth to it. There's no evidence whatsoever.

it doesn’t hurt them. It helps them because they have an easy road to a 1 seed every year. It’s ******** but it is what it is.

They’ll eventually win one if they keep getting a 1 seed. I remember thinking the same thing about memphis when Cal was there. I thought “they won’t be prepared, they’ll never get past the E8”. Then they were a single made free throw away from winning the whole thing. Completely changed my perception.

 

[GoZags_rivals83639]

T

Gonzaga is very good, but if they were in a power 5 conference, they woukd have more than 2 losses.

Of course they'd likely have more than 2 losses. And instead of being #1 on KenPom by 5 full points, they'd probably be somewhere 1-5 or 6 ... still in the running for a 1 or 2 seed.