UNC gets a PASS on the Academic Issues

[Willow Grove Dawg]

Official NCAA Statements

UNC - please accept our most sincere apology for investigating these alleged issues.

Ole Miss - you guys better buy a lot of KY

 

[MSUDawgFan86]

The NCAA is 17ing worthless. It’s an incredible joke what occurred this morning.

 

[drt7891]

UNC I guess successfully argued their point that the fraud wasn't "athlete-only" even though athletes benefitted. If that's the case, that's an academic/institutional problem.

However, the NCAA should have thrown their opinion in the mix on academic fraud. That's what is so unsettling.

 

[Xenomorph]

That's the way I read it too... UNC says Yes, it was a ******** curriculum but it was a ******** curriculum open to everybody.

 

[thatsbaseball]

That will fit nicely in the file with "well Cam didn't know his dad was auctioning him to the highest bidder". I'm afraid college athletic$ has acknowledged what many have said for years...they ain't about to kill the goose that laid the golden egg, they'll just turn a blind eye and let the good time$ roll baby.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

That's the way I read it too... UNC says Yes, it was a ******** curriculum but it was a ******** curriculum open to everybody.

I'll yield to the legal experts but it seems that UNC's lawyers successfully argued that this was a jurisdictional issue. Even if the NCAA had handed down sanctions, I think they were in for a lengthy court battle.

I think the bigger issue for the University is how SACS views this issue.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I would think this would affect their SACS accreditation

 

[ezsoil]

That's the way I read it too... UNC says Yes, it was a ******** curriculum but it was a ******** curriculum open to everybody.

i can't say anything as when I was at MSU ...almost every fraternity, sorority and the athletes had a "test file" as well as the courses through the extension department. I believe "vector diseases" was a course you could fill out in 30 minutes to get a three 3 hour class... you just had to pass the final with 70%.

 

[thekimmer]

That would be 'vector borne disease control'

i can't say anything as when I was at MSU ...almost every fraternity, sorority and the athletes had a "test file" as well as the courses through the extension department. I believe "vector diseases" was a course you could fill out in 30 minutes to get a three 3 hour class... you just had to pass the final with 70%.

Took a little longer than 30 minutes. Could do it easily in a few days though.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

I graduated in 1988 & still feel it necessary to take the Sgt Schultz defense to this subject. "I KNOW NOTHING!"

 

[thekimmer]

i can't say anything as when I was at MSU ...almost every fraternity, sorority and the athletes had a "test file" as well as the courses through the extension department. I believe "vector diseases" was a course you could fill out in 30 minutes to get a three 3 hour class... you just had to pass the final with 70%.

I was a GDI in school so I never used a test file but that doesn't strike me as cheating unless the tests were stolen. One could argue that this is good preparation for life in the real world as information organization and management and knowing how to access it is a very important skill as is learning how to find out and present information the way your superiors or customers want it. In my line of work I keep lots of information in files that I have to be able to find easily and quickly. I rarely have to take a test to show how much I know.

The only way a test file can really help you short circuit the system is if an instructor never varies the questions on their tests and if they don't then they are lazy and not doing their jobs. Just look at almost every certification exam. Most organizations publish practice tests.

 

[FQDawg]

I think this is proof that the idea that "the NCAA wants make a statement" or "the NCAA is going to hammer [school X]" is wrong. I think that after Penn State, the NCAA is very leery about "making statements."

The people making these decisions are at other schools themselves and they understand that any hammer they drop on any school could just as easily be dropped on them at some other time in the future. There is also a (fairly legitimate) concern that they don't want to punish current student-athletes for the mistakes of previous administrators.

I know the cases here are completely different, but this in no way makes me believe that Ole Miss "better buy a lot of KY." If anything, this makes me think that OM will skate as well. They may not get off scott free like North Carolina just did, but the idea that they are going to receive some punishment that's essentially worse than the death penalty is wrong, in my opinion.

That said, let me add my usual caveat of "I hope I'm wrong" and that OM ends up burned to the ground.

 

[DudyDog]

I think this is proof that the idea that "the NCAA wants make a statement" or "the NCAA is going to hammer [school X]" is wrong. I think that after Penn State, the NCAA is very leery about "making statements."

The people making these decisions are at other schools themselves and they understand that any hammer they drop on any school could just as easily be dropped on them at some other time in the future. There is also a (fairly legitimate) concern that they don't want to punish current student-athletes for the mistakes of previous administrators.

I know the cases here are completely different, but this in no way makes me believe that Ole Miss "better buy a lot of KY." If anything, this makes me think that OM will skate as well. They may not get off scott free like North Carolina just did, but the idea that they are going to receive some punishment that's essentially worse than the death penalty is wrong, in my opinion.

That said, let me add my usual caveat of "I hope I'm wrong" and that OM ends up burned to the ground.

OM has already agreed that 14-15 violations have occurred. Many of the most severe kind. UNC agreed to nothing, fought it tooth and nail the whole way.

 

[FQDawg]

I understand that OM has admitted many of the violations took place but I also wouldn't put it past them to have said "yes, we admit these things happened but we promise never to do it again [wink, wink]" and the NCAA saying something along the lines of "well, ok, if you promise..." and letting them off easy.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

And SACS already looked at it and judged them.

UNC were put on probation a little over two years ago: Link.

A year later, they were fully accredited again: Link.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I would think this would affect their SACS accreditation

It did - for a year. See my above comment to olblue.

 

[Dawgzilla]

This reminds me of an old Tank McNamara comic strip. I was trying to find it, but after about 15 seconds of looking I gave up. Enormous State University (ESU) was in trouble because some of their football players were driving new BMWs. So they decided to hit their alums up for new BMWs for every student, to show that it wasn't a special benefit for athletes.

 

[Go Budaw]

I think this is proof that the idea that "the NCAA wants make a statement" or "the NCAA is going to hammer [school X]" is wrong. I think that after Penn State, the NCAA is very leery about "making statements."

The people making these decisions are at other schools themselves and they understand that any hammer they drop on any school could just as easily be dropped on them at some other time in the future. There is also a (fairly legitimate) concern that they don't want to punish current student-athletes for the mistakes of previous administrators.

I know the cases here are completely different, but this in no way makes me believe that Ole Miss "better buy a lot of KY." If anything, this makes me think that OM will skate as well. They may not get off scott free like North Carolina just did, but the idea that they are going to receive some punishment that's essentially worse than the death penalty is wrong, in my opinion.

That said, let me add my usual caveat of "I hope I'm wrong" and that OM ends up burned to the ground.

The only conclusion that could be favorable for OM from today’s ruling is the NCAA going light on them for the Saunders / Vaughn academic stuff (which they mostly admitted to, so even that is unlikely). That stuff is the least of their worries at this point. At the end of the day you really can’t compare the two cases. OM has a double digit number of Level I violations stemming from pay for play and similar improper benefits that have nothing to do with academics. UNC’s case was 100% about academics.

 

[Croom's knee socks]

I think falsifying ACT scores is more egregious than a sop course. That's just me though.

 

[HotMop]

I read this as "Ole Miss gets a pass".

 

[Croom's knee socks]

This UNC stuff is old stuff that has already been dealt with by their accreditation board. This was not in the NCAAs jurisdiction. The ole miss ACT stuff is clearly in the NCAAs jurisdiction since they were falsifying tests specifically for athletes.
The NCAA just wasted everybody's time by getting involved in the UNC fake class

 

[blacklistedbully]

The falsifying if ACT scores at UNM is also very diff from the UNC case. The biggest reason UNC got away with it is they continued to claim to the NCAA that those bogus courses where, in fact, legitimate classes, and that they were also available to non-athletes.

The NCAA bylaws do not allow for the NCAA to question any university's claims that a curriculum is valid if it is offered to all students. ACT fraud is not a "curriculum" question...it is a question of whether or not a student-athlete was qualified to participate in NCAA sports based on out-and-out falsification of an ACT test.

 

[DerHntr]

I'm glad Penn State got hit by NCAA because what happened was terrible and JoePa needed to be knocked down a peg. Although, it is interesting the NCAA thought that horrifically criminal activity by a staffer was in their jurisdiction, yet academic fraud clearly overused by the athletic department was not. It shouldn't matter that the fake classes were not proven to be made originally for athletes. The fact that AD staffers purposefully put hundreds of athletes in them should be enough. In PSU's case, I still can't figure out what NCAA rule they broke. It didn't help recruiting. Didn't include players. There was nothing academic. There was no money involved.

At least this sets up to be a problem for OM because they have not argued at all that the NCAA is out of their lane. They just said "Whoops. We made mistakes. Didn't know we couldn't do that and they should be level 2 instead of level 1 because we have reasons."

If the OM case was like PSU, the infractions would include Freeze illegally hiring hookers for himself while staffers knew about it. If the hookers were underage, it would be even closer to PSU.

 

[Shmuley]

UNC did not buy football recruits away from Bama and UGA. There's your difference.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

It was an entire degree program not just an "underwater basket weaving"

 

[BulldogBlitz]

UNC did not buy football recruits away from Bama and UGA. There's your difference.

^^^^^this all day.