UNC files it's response

[Blueaz]

I guess I will be the one dissenting opinion here. First off, the NCAA has no business regulating the classes on campus. It is the institutions role to assure qualified courses are being taught. If a college fails to educate because of a bogus class, the students should demand action.
Second, if you have ever been on a college campus, you know there are certain classes that are "athlete" friendly. They may not provide answers, but the classes are simply easier. I do not want the NCAA coming on campus and telling me what I should/should not teach.
Thirdly, At the same time an English class at UK will be different than an English class EKU. Different instructions, requirements, books, expectations. By the way some of you are talking, you believe all classes should be the same.
If you think the NCAA has a position to monitor classes, the next step is monitoring assignments, standardize testing, etc.
As for any benefits, yes the NCAA should come down hard on UNC.

Two words. Dean's list

 

[gossie21_rivals69805]

So, comparing decades of academic fraud to... What, a high school kid getting a couple of bucks unrelated to college, and a borderline pro maybe getting a loan for gaudy jewelry which was again not connected to college.

As I said, you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop downplaying what happened at UNC due to your bias and lack of understanding.

It may not be comparable to UNCs institution-backed academic fraud. But it has no meaningful distinction between the violations which erased Calipari's first two final fours. Magette is no different than Rose and Lance Thomas is no different than Camby.

Duke is just as much a favored institution as UNC.

 

[serdi]

Nothing Duke has ever done is even close to this. Nothing ANY NCAA school including UK has done that they have been hammered on, is anything close to what Dean Smith started before 1993, but that is how far they went back, to present.

North Carolina is the most blatant cheater in the history of the NCAA.

UK should stop playing them in all sports. NC State fans are already calling for a ban and all schools in the ACC and the entire NCAA should do the same.

Stop playing them Mitch!

 

[Guess Who]

Nothing self-imposed. Real shocker there.

Because they feel their probation tenure by SACSCOC was their penalty as well as clearing up of the matter. Parties over in their blind eyes.

Plus they feel statute of limitations has bearing on their reply. Page 19 iirc

 

[DelkBowl]

So, comparing decades of academic fraud to... What, a high school kid getting a couple of bucks unrelated to college, and a borderline pro maybe getting a loan for gaudy jewelry which was again not connected to college.

As I said, you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop downplaying what happened at UNC due to your bias and lack of understanding.

I'm not sure if you are defending Duke by laying out two major violations. Neither of those have to be related to the college to be violations. And no I'm not addressing a comparison. Just the Duke thing.

 

[UK’98UK’00]

So, comparing decades of academic fraud to... What, a high school kid getting a couple of bucks unrelated to college, and a borderline pro maybe getting a loan for gaudy jewelry which was again not connected to college.

As I said, you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop downplaying what happened at UNC due to your bias and lack of understanding.

So when Duke got off for the Cory Magette case and Marcus Camby with UMass didn't, you felt that was OK? Also, again with Duke and the kid that got the jewelry "loan", where they weren't penalized, yet other schools have for similar infractions, you're OK with that?
How about when Memphis was stripped of its final four/finals appearance with no proof? I guess you're OK with that as well?
Go to the f****n duke board.

 

[gracetoyou]

What a load of crap. So, basically, UNC says that academic fraud is beyond the authority of the NCAA, as given to them by the member schools. They also contend that since some non-athlete students took the class, that there was no extra benefits, or preferential treatment for student athletes. Of course they fail to mention the tremendously lopsided percentage of athletes taking the courses, as opposed to non-athletes. This is 70 plus pages of deny, deny, deny, and I'm sure the NCAA will realize the error of charging UNC in the first place. There is probably, a formal letter of apology coming from the NCAA, as we speak.

Well...I'm sure Coach O is glad UNC notified the NCAA about that.

 

[jameslee32]

Because they feel their probation tenure by SACSCOC was their penalty as well as clearing up of the matter. Parties over in their blind eyes.

Plus they feel statute of limitations has bearing on their reply. Page 19 iirc

What other program, other than Dook, gets away with this charade? They have fought the NCAA kicking and screaming for years on end and actually got allegations dropped along the way. Maybe if they would have come clean right away, there'd be no statute argument to be made. Of course the UNC lawyers know this but the NCAA buying every delay, every excuse and lie is totally mind-boggling on the same day Mizzou gets another year of probation added to its penalty.

 

[OldRed]

Nothing self-imposed. Real shocker there.

Remember, the hashtags are #UNCCHEATS and #NCAAisCORRUPT. Pretty much sums up the situation.

 

[JC CATS]

Summary: The fake classes aren't ncaa violations because it's not the ncaa's job to regulate academics and the classes were open to all students, the violations that did occur (like impermissible help to students on assignments) are level 2 or 3, and these minor violations don't add up to lack of institutional control.

But yet if a kid cheats while he is high school it is a viloation, Eric Bledsoe in HS class, Rose on SAT's. Come on, what did the college institution have to do with eithr of those situations

 

[JC CATS]

Precedent is a *****.

So their argument, if accepted, means that:
- Schools can pay their athlete's if they also pay a few other "regular" students.
- Schools can give athlete's passing grades not earned if they do that to a few other "regular students".
- Athlete's at schools can start selling their image (autographs, ect...), if "regular" students are allowed to do that also.
- Schools can play kids who cheated on their SAT, if they also accept some "regular" students who cheated on their SAT.

How about Hookers? Can athletes get hookers if they provide them for regular students?

 

[Barry MuCockinher]

Ok say they do determine that it wasn't a major violation because it was a class open to other non athlete students........the athletes STILL took fake classes and received fake grades which make them ineligible players!!!!! UNC played ineligible players which is a ncaa violation (see Memphis).How is it any different from Memphis playing ONE ineligible player& Losing their wins and going on probation?
WTF am I missing here? At the end of the day they played ineligible players for years at the very least they should have to vacate all wins involving those players. It's an apples to apples comparison. SIA if it's been explained I'm not on here every day so I may have missed it.

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

But it's not the NCAA's business...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...ying-ncaa-not-jurisdiction-notice-allegations

 

[Ben101er]

So, comparing decades of academic fraud to... What, a high school kid getting a couple of bucks unrelated to college, and a borderline pro maybe getting a loan for gaudy jewelry which was again not connected to college.

As I said, you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop downplaying what happened at UNC due to your bias and lack of understanding.

I don't think the crimes compare, but the lack of action by the NCAA toward either school does. In either case that the op mentioned, Duke won games with players that should have been ineligible. Other schools have had wins vacated when doing the same thing. Not Duke. So, yes, UNC is dirty as heck, but don't get holier than thou as a Duke fan.
Just because you have not been charged, doesn't mean that your program has been clean. It just means that the NCAA has turned it's head, and it proves the point that the OP made.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

News and Observer article. http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article93255562.html

The whole matter is disgusting.

 

[Xception]

The people at UNC have no shame , i don't know how a parent would send their kid to a school run by ethically bankrupt thieves . In any event I'm super glad this all happened , now everybody knows how corrupt UNC along with the NCAA are and that can't be questioned anymore . No more lies about how UNC is anything other than a dirty school , program and state . No more bs arguments that the NCAA isn't corrupt and it's just paranoia , they corrupt end of discussion .

 

[UKvisitor_rivals101449]

This was probably spoon fed to UNC by the NCAA.

"Hey, we have to take action, but when we do just say this. We will roll over."

I think the opposite: This was spoon fed to the NCAA by UNC, dadgum it.

 

[Guess Who]

So what's the time span for NCAA to respond to the response?

 

[UKvisitor_rivals101449]

Upcoming Emmert press conference on the details:

 

[Guess Who]

So what happens now?

1. The NCAA has 60 days to respond to the response, at which time it will set a date for UNC's Committee on Infractions hearing.

2. School officials and relevant coaches will appear before the NCAA's Committee on Infractions. There is no official timetable on when the hearing will take place.

3. The NCAA announces the results of the hearing, which include any sanctions for the school or athletic department. These sanctions can then be appealed or accepted by the school.

The final step could come months after the hearing, so it's a good bet that this story will continue to drag on through the college football season and at least into the start of the 2016-17 men's basketball and women's basketball season.

This could go on till the cows come home.

 

[UKvisitor_rivals101449]

UNC and UL seem to be in a competition to be the the new "King of Corrupt" of CBB now that Syracuse title fades. ACC!

 

[UK Cats1]

I put a lot of thought into this before posting.

F&*K UNC

 

[UKvisitor_rivals101449]

I put a lot of thought into this before posting.

F&*K UNC

Hey, the line starts back there.

 

[Clive Gollings]

News and Observer article. http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article93255562.html

The whole matter is disgusting.

I couldn't have said it better. That video is telling. The NCAA is a joke.

 

[Clive Gollings]

So, comparing decades of academic fraud to... What, a high school kid getting a couple of bucks unrelated to college, and a borderline pro maybe getting a loan for gaudy jewelry which was again not connected to college.

As I said, you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop downplaying what happened at UNC due to your bias and lack of understanding.

You're awful. Duke has received a free pass where others were punished for the same or lesser violations. But whatever, I know this is falling on biased deaf ears. Just don't seek a pity party here.

 

[MWes11]

It's pretty much UNC giving a big F*ck You to the NCAA. And the NCAA will do nothing about it.

 

[Blueaz]

Ok say they do determine that it wasn't a major violation because it was a class open to other non athlete students........the athletes STILL took fake classes and received fake grades which make them ineligible players!!!!! UNC played ineligible players which is a ncaa violation (see Memphis).How is it any different from Memphis playing ONE ineligible player& Losing their wins and going on probation?
WTF am I missing here? At the end of the day they played ineligible players for years at the very least they should have to vacate all wins involving those players. It's an apples to apples comparison. SIA if it's been explained I'm not on here every day so I may have missed it.

UNC would have to declare fake classes. And then UNC would have to call them non students. OBTW I haven't seen any pigs flying by window.



And to the poster saying all colleges have easy classes. WTF does that have to do with anything. I took the notoriously easy classes my freshman and sophomore years, and yes there were athletes in those classes. There were at least 2 if not 3.
I don't think ROTC military science courses were setup to keep Davender eligible.
UNC basically had a ******* curriculum to receive a degree; and easy classes made easy enough to no show and never do a damn thing; AND make the deans list.

And to everyone saying it devalues a UNC degree; partially wrong. By nothing happening from UNC, NCAA, ACC, or by SACS (nothing really); this non action devalues degrees from most other institutions.
The perception can be... that if UNC (a well thought of school) does this...ALL schools must be giving out free, easy degrees.

 

[mhroe1984]

Oh well, at least there's this...

 

[Federal Cat]

NCAA sucks, bunch of morons incapable of doing their job properly, done with it, on to this season, Go Gig Blue

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I guess I will be the one dissenting opinion here. First off, the NCAA has no business regulating the classes on campus. It is the institutions role to assure qualified courses are being taught. If a college fails to educate because of a bogus class, the students should demand action.
Second, if you have ever been on a college campus, you know there are certain classes that are "athlete" friendly. They may not provide answers, but the classes are simply easier. I do not want the NCAA coming on campus and telling me what I should/should not teach.
Thirdly, At the same time an English class at UK will be different than an English class EKU. Different instructions, requirements, books, expectations. By the way some of you are talking, you believe all classes should be the same.
If you think the NCAA has a position to monitor classes, the next step is monitoring assignments, standardize testing, etc.
As for any benefits, yes the NCAA should come down hard on UNC.

Different assignment standards among various institutions is not the same premise as a completely fictitious class structure that was created with the intent of keeping athletes eligible.

Are you intentionally trying to be appear coy, or are you just unaware of what is actually being discussed? In either case, your post is terribly deficient of the actual facts.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Oh well, at least there's this...

Best title-game finish ever. Especially given what was at stake for the soul of college basketball.

I hope UNC fans never get over that shot. I hope that upon their death experiences, they see the beautiful light and walk toward it through the tunnel, only to find that Kris Jenkins is waiting there with a sly smile smeared across his face, spinning a basketball on his pointer finger and asking, "Welcome to Heaven. Wanna watch some highlights?"

 

[Clive Gollings]

UNC is tarnished. That's the best fans of the sport can hope for. The days of the arrogant holier than thou ******* browsing these boards are over.

 

[ganner918_rivals60369]

Oh well, at least there's this...

Love seeing Kenny Smith slowly walk to the desk and sit down while Barkley jumps around celebrating.

 

[mhroe1984]

Best title-game finish ever. Especially given what was at stake for the soul of college basketball.

I hope UNC fans never get over that shot. I hope that upon their death experiences, they see the beautiful light and walk toward it through the tunnel, only to find that Kris Jenkins is waiting there with a sly smile smeared across his face, spinning a basketball on his pointer finger and asking, "Welcome to Heaven. Wanna watch some highlights?"

The silence from Chapel Hill, NC that night was deafening!

 

[LeonThe Camel]

Different assignment standards among various institutions is not the same premise as a completely fictitious class structure that was created with the intent of keeping athletes eligible.

Are you intentionally trying to be appear coy, or are you just unaware of what is actually being discussed? In either case, your post is terribly deficient of the actual facts.

You are missing the deeper picture. Does UNC say the class is bogus? If so, then there is a problem. But what is taught, how it is taught, and to what level is the responsibility of the school not the NCAA.
Is the class shady? Quite possibly, very likely. But do you really want the NCAA to go to each campus and review every single class an athlete is in to validate the legitimacy of the class? The cost and time would be tremendous.
As for the class being fictitious, how confident are you with that assessment? And what do you base you decision on?

 

[LeonThe Camel]

Dude, WOW, you really missed the point. Do,you think these athletes just magically knew that the AFAM classes were basically no show classes with easy grades or do you believe someone steered them to it. If it's the former, I'm not sure what to say, but if it's the later, which would be indicated by lopsided attendance, then someone was ensuring these athletes stayed eligible to compete in sports which the NCAA damn well should care about.

I can only say it like this: When I was in college, there were certain professors/classes that EVERYONE knew were "gimme" classes. There was always a large number of football/basketball players in particular classes. As part of the general student body, we also knew what those classes were.
Athletes talk to each other.
My only take is the NCAA should NOT be the deciding factor in what constitutes a class counting toward academic credit. The institutions have accrediting boards for that specific purpose. If an institution fails to abide by the board, they should held accountable. The CHEA and DOEd should have a larger say in this.
Where I went, we were ABET accredited.
I took a few classes where I did not do any work whatsoever. I was simply there to help the professor teach some of classes if she was unavailable. They were called independent study. The "real" independent study was to perform literary reviews. Perhaps I got short changed.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

This is not about the NCAA overseeing academics on campus. This is about 18 years of academic fraud. Not about easy classes, but about classes that did not exist. Last summer UNC was put on probation by the Southern Association of Colleges, their accreditation agency, over this scandal. The NCAA could and should use that fact in their ruling and drop the hammer on UNCheat.

If the NCAA rules that they have no right to take action then it is "Game On!" for all members to do whatever they want to make sure the student athletes remain eligible. UK should just go ahead and award all student athletes straight As right now. Why bother having an athlete attend class at all if no one can do anything about it if you don't?

I agree with what you are saying, if the classes did not exist. Once the university/college has said a class exists, it is up to the accrediting body to validate. If cheating then occurs for s group of students while in the class, then the NCAA should hammer them.
I just do not feel it is the NCAA's responsibility to determine if a class is a class.

Take a look at some of these "classes" that actually exist. See the names of ther schools. Some are top notch universities. My daughter is at a a top 10 university currently and last year she took a class on Harry Potter (not the one below).

“United Kingdom: To Hogwarts, Harry: An Intensive Study of Harry Potter Through the British Isles”
Central Michigan University

“Wasting Time on the Internet”
The University of Pennsylvania

“Learning from YouTube”
Pitzer College

“Politicizing Beyoncé”
Rutgers,

“’California Here We Come’ The O.C. & Self-Aware Culture of 21st Century America”
Duke University

“The Art of Walking”
Centre College

“Jay Z and Kanye West”
University of Missouri

“Wordplay: A Wry Plod from Babel to Scrabble”
Princeton University

And just for giggles, type in "easiest classes at University of Kentucky".

 

[LeonThe Camel]

did the ncaa have the right to get into a criminal case like psu? cough cough hundreds of millions stolen.

My opinion,no athletic advantage was obtained, so No. But it is a fine line being walked.
It was the athletic department that violated the laws of state/country. The persons involved should have all been staked to the ground and covered in honey. Let the little critters of the world do with them as they want (red ants, bees, spiders, etc.)

 

[Blueaz]

1.Does UNC say the class is bogus?
2.As for the class being fictitious, how confident are you with that assessment? 3.And what do you base you decision on?[/QUOTE]



1. sure, UNC is stepping up and going saying that ...WTF
2. Ask McCants
3. see #2, see the emails and memos...the research was done and shown.
Now go troll another thread[/QUOTE]

 

[larry the cable guy]

So let me get this straight. A kid can get a fake grade or score in high school and a college program , player, coach can all receive punishment or be deemed ineligible by NCAA

But you can go to UNC, take a fake class in COLLEGE, get Fake grades and Not even show up to a college course and its out of NCAA jurisdiction

Makes sense.

There I fixed it for you.