Ukraine War

Jfcarter3

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libs won't be happy till American boots on the ground.


What we SHOULD do is sanction Russia as much as possible, and nothing else. Let Europe handle a European problem.
Not 100% sure if you are insinuating that I am a "lib", because if so, then you are incorrect. I just don't take TACO's word as Gospel.

We should sanction. And we should provide support as much as possible without putting boots on the ground.

As an aside, ironic that the Republican party, generically, used to be the party of a strong military guided by a profound belief in fighting aggressors and supporting allies. Now "libs won't be happy till American boots on the ground". Strange the way the world works.
 
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Not 100% sure if you are insinuating that I am a "lib", because if so, then you are incorrect. I just don't take TACO's word as Gospel.
I voted for Trump twice. Wrote in Cruz in 2016. I am here because the political boards I frequented were either shut down or pay walled with the moves to on3.
We should sanction. And we should provide support as much as possible without putting boots on the ground.
Not a General, but I cant help but think A10s and/or Apaches would be a game changer. It would allow them to clear out the entrenched troops and take back the land IMO. BRRRRR BRRRRR bye bye Vlad.
As an aside, ironic that the Republican party, generically, used to be the party of a strong military guided by a profound belief in fighting aggressors and supporting allies.
This is me.
Now "libs won't be happy till American boots on the ground". Strange the way the world works.
Pubs have gone from neo-con nation builders (W) to Buchananites with isolationism and some, like Pat, have anti-Semitic tendencies.

This Reaganite, thinks Trump will come around and increase the quality and quantity of weapons given. I think its just a matter of time before Trump gets tired of Putin's games and gives Z the weapons and approval of use needed to turn the tide.

"Libs" tack opposite of the right, especially Trump.
 

baltimorened

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Gawd, take off the deeply orange hued glasses for just a moment now and then. Cheeto Hitler wants to genuflect to his Russian patron, but just because your Orange Demigod wants to do so, that doesn't mean you have to agree with him.

"Their manpower is draining" applies to both Ukraine and Russia. You realize, I hope, that Russia has been using North Korean soldiers in Ukraine for quite some time. That comes well over a year after Russia started conscripting retirement age men for their foolhardy war effort in Ukraine. Moreover, Russia has been trading crude oil to China and North Korea for munitions, and purchasing drones from Iran. They have depleted a whole lot of their military, both personnel and weaponry.

Ukraine is in a similarly feeble position, but one critical difference is that the Ukrainians are defending their own homeland. Russia brought the war to Ukraine, so where are the Ukrainians gonna go? By contrast, a whole lot of Russians would prefer to stay home, and not to be conscripted to travel to Ukraine and risk getting killed. And for what? A Black Sea port? A few thousand square miles of arable land? Russia already occupies by far the largest geographical area of any country in the world. Ukraine simply needs help from the U.S. and/or Western Europe. If that help continues, Russia cannot win. Period.
well, we're providing weapons as are the Europeans. so we'll see
 

baltimorened

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Not 100% sure if you are insinuating that I am a "lib", because if so, then you are incorrect. I just don't take TACO's word as Gospel.

We should sanction. And we should provide support as much as possible without putting boots on the ground.

As an aside, ironic that the Republican party, generically, used to be the party of a strong military guided by a profound belief in fighting aggressors and supporting allies. Now "libs won't be happy till American boots on the ground". Strange the way the world works.
let me help...right now Russia has taken part of the Ukraine. Why do I know that? Because they have troops occupying the physical space under their feet.

Now how does Ukraine get their land back? Well, in order to re occupy that space, they will have boots on the ground in that space.

It is generally believed that the Ukranians do not have sufficient troops in order to do that. So that creates a dilemma.

Now recognising you have a problem is normally the first step in determining what you need to do to solve it. So if we need troops to recapture the land Russia is holding, where do those troops come from? In other words, we want to support Ukraine. We can provide surface to air missiles, airplanes, ammunition, small arms etc,. That will enable Ukraine to keep the war going but absent troops they have a very specific problem. That's where the dichotomy enters. Everybody wants to support Ukraine, but in order to "win", assuming that means kicking the russians out, you need troops. That's where the question/statement about sending US boots on the ground
 
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let me help...right now Russia has taken part of the Ukraine. Why do I know that? Because they have troops occupying the physical space under their feet.
ok
Now how does Ukraine get their land back? Well, in order to re occupy that space, they will have boots on the ground in that space.
correct
It is generally believed that the Ukranians do not have sufficient troops in order to do that. So that creates a dilemma.
probably correct given current situation.
Now recognising you have a problem is normally the first step in determining what you need to do to solve it. So if we need troops to recapture the land Russia is holding, where do those troops come from?
Ukraine
In other words, we want to support Ukraine. We can provide surface to air missiles, airplanes, ammunition, small arms etc,. That will enable Ukraine to keep the war going but absent troops they have a very specific problem. That's where the dichotomy enters. Everybody wants to support Ukraine, but in order to "win", assuming that means kicking the russians out, you need troops.
Not necessarily. Russia is having trouble advancing so if Ukraine can take back land it can hold it with what they have. I believe with proper weaponry the Russians can be removed without using troops. Then move them in to hold the position. Russians would not last under a Gulf War 1 type assault by the Ukrainians with the proper weapons. I am thinking Apaches, A10s, cluster munitions, FAEs and modern artillery.
That's where the question/statement about sending US boots on the ground
No need for USoA but EU needs troops in country after Russia is evicted.
 
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TigerGrowls

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Dec 21, 2001
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ok

correct

probably correct given current situation.

Ukraine

Not necessarily. Russia is having trouble advancing so if Ukraine can take back land it can hold it with what they have. I believe with proper weaponry the Russians can be removed without using troops. Then move them in to hold the position. Russians would not last under a Gulf War 1 type assault by the Ukrainians with the proper weapons. I am thinking Apaches, A10s, cluster munitions, FAEs and modern artillery.

No need for USoA but EU needs troops in country after Russia is evicted.
You guys are delusional. Russia will not lose any of the land it took unless it agrees to give some up. Ukraine is not the 51st state guys. We are 37T in debt. I am on-board with us selling the Europeans weapons who can then give them to Ukraine.
 
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So your plan is to fully decimate the Russian military without US direct involvement? How long will this take to accomplish?
People seem to be thinking USSR and WW2 when trying to figure out Russia's stamina for this war. I however was curious about the Russia-Afghan war.

The had 26K killed over 10 years before being run out.
We had 2K killed over 20 years before getting tired and leaving.

So they had 10x the dead in half of the time. But they gave up.

Ukraine war confirmed Russian dead (by name) 130K upper estimate via the UK 250K in 3 years.
So nearly 6x-10x more dead than the Afghan war in 1/3 the time.

We are sending 155 mm standard shelled for howitzers. I am not sure how many 155 mm cluster munitions are being produced but I figure the bulk are standard shells. They have no A10 or Apache equivalent to deliver cluster bombs or ground support.

Air support and cluster munitions may be the key to clearing the area for Ukraine to move in and hold.

Meanwhile the campaign to cut off the oil is ramping up with Trump pressuring allies to cut off the spigot, tariffs on China and Ukraine bombing facilities with drones and supposedly some new missile called the flamingo.

As for a timeline? Well it would depend on what is sent, how much and if its better than what we have given so far. If the new flamigo is as good as advertised maybe they just need help in building new factories and getting raw materials to mass produce their indigenous long range missile.
 
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The 28 pt plan already asks too much of Ukraine and Putin said he sees it as a starting point.

EU not happy again.

Another zig zag by Trump?

Trump trying to get even more support out of Europe?

I hope so. EU needs to go on war footing and flood Ukraine with weapons.

Is Venezuela in the cards? IMHO drugs are the pretext. Maduro threatened Pax Americana in our own backyard. His sin? Threatening Guyana and plotting to steal its resources. So we are hitting him in the pocketbook.

We might just need our stuff for ourselves.

So Putin and Ukraine must make a deal by Thanksgiving?

EU has the manufacturing base to easily outpace Russia.
 

dpic73

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Please read. The United States has betrayed Ukraine to benefit the US and Russia. This is NOT “The Art of the Deal” and is horrible. Americans MUST protest against this treatment!

Quoted with citations from HRC 11/22/25.

“Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky addressed the Ukrainian people today. The current moment, he said, is “one of the most difficult” for the country. “Ukraine may soon face an extremely difficult choice. Either the loss of dignity or the risk of losing a key partner. Either 28 complicated points or the hardest winter yet—and the risks that follow,” Zelensky said.

Zelensky’s use of the word “dignity” recalled Ukraine’s 2014 “Revolution of Dignity” that ousted Russian-aligned president Viktor Yanukovych and turned the country toward Europe.

Zelensky was responding to a 28-point “peace” plan President Donald J. Trump is pressuring him to sign before Thanksgiving, November 27. The plan appears to have been leaked to Barak Ravid of Axios by Kirill Dmitriev, a top ally of Russia’s president Vladimir Putin, and reports say it was worked out by Dmitriev and Trump’s envoy Steve Witkoff. Ukrainian representatives and representatives from Europe were not included. Laura Kelly of The Hill reported on Wednesday that Congress was blindsided by the proposal, which Mark Toth and Jonathan Sweet of The Hill suggest Russia may be pushing now to take advantage of a corruption scandal roiling Ukraine’s government.

Luke Harding of The Guardian noted that the plan appears to have been translated from Russian, as many of the phrases in the text read naturally in that language but are awkward and clunky in English.

The plan is a Russian wish list. It begins by confirming Ukraine’s sovereignty, a promise Russia gave Ukraine in 1994 in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons but then broke when it invaded Ukraine in 2014.

The plan gives Crimea and most of the territory in Ukraine’s four eastern oblasts of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk to Russia, and it limits the size of the Ukrainian military.

It erases any and all accountability for the Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilians, including well-documented rape, torture, and murder. It says: “All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.”

It calls for $100 billion in frozen Russian assets to be invested in rebuilding and developing Ukraine. Since the regions that need reconstruction are the ones Russia would be taking, this means that Russian assets would go back to Russia. The deal says that Europe, which was not consulted, will unfreeze Russian assets and itself add another $100 billion to the reconstruction fund. The plan says the U.S. “will receive 50 percent of the profits from this venture,” which appears to mean that Europe will foot the bill for the reconstruction of Ukraine—Russia, if the plan goes through—and the U.S. and Russia will split the proceeds.

The plan asserts that “Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy,” with sanctions lifted and an invitation to rejoin the Group of Seven (G7), an informal group of countries with advanced economies—Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States, along with the European Union—that meets every year to discuss global issues. Russia was excluded from the group after it invaded Ukraine in 2014, and Putin has wanted back in.

According to the plan, Russia and “[t]he US will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.”

The plan requires Ukraine to amend its constitution to reject membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). It says “[a] dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the US, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.”

Not only does this agreement sell out Ukraine and Europe for the benefit of Russia—which attacked Ukraine—it explicitly separates the U.S. from NATO, a long-time goal of Russia’s president Vladimir Putin.

NATO grew out of the 1941 Atlantic Charter. Months before the U.S. entered World War II, U.S. president Franklin Delano Roosevelt and British prime minister Winston Churchill and their advisors laid out principles for an international system that could prevent future world wars. They agreed that countries should not invade each other and therefore the world should work toward disarmament, and that international cooperation and trade thanks to freedom of the seas would help to knit the world together with rising prosperity and human rights.

The war killed about 36.5 million Europeans, 19 million of them civilians, and left many of those who had survived homeless or living in refugee camps. In its wake, communism backed by the Soviet Union began to push east into Europe. In 1949, France, the U.K., Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg formed a military and economic alliance, the Western Union, to work together, but nations understood that resisting Soviet aggression, preventing the revival of European militarism, and guaranteeing international cooperation would require a transatlantic security agreement.

In 1949 the countries of the Western Union joined with the U.S., Canada, Portugal, Italy, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland to make up the twelve original signatories to the North Atlantic Treaty. In it, the countries reaffirmed “their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments” and their determination “to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law.”

They vowed that any attack on one of the signatories would be considered an attack on all, thus deterring war by promising strong retaliation. This system of collective defense has stabilized the world for 75 years. Thirty-two countries are now members, sharing intelligence, training, tactics, equipment, and agreements for use of airspace and bases. In 2024, NATO countries reaffirmed their commitment and said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine had “gravely undermined global security.”

They did so in the face of Russian aggression.

Putin invaded Crimea in 2014 after Ukrainians ousted Yanukovych, earning economic sanctions and expulsion from what was then the G8. But Crimea wasn’t enough: he wanted Ukraine’s eastern oblasts, the country’s industrial heartland. Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, who was running for the U.S. presidency against Donald Trump in 2016, would never stand for that land grab. But Trump was a different story.

According to Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s 2019 report on Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, in summer 2016, Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort discussed with his business partner, Russian operative Konstantin Kilimnik, “a ‘backdoor’ means for Russia to control eastern Ukraine.” According to the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee, the plan was for Trump to say he wanted peace in Ukraine and for him to appoint Manafort to be a “special representative” to manage the process. With the cooperation of Russian and Russian-backed Ukrainian officials, Manafort would help create

“an autonomous republic” in Ukraine’s industrialized eastern region and would work to have Russian-backed Yanukovych, for whom Manafort had worked previously, “elected to head that republic.”

According to the Senate Intelligence Committee, the men continued to work on what they called the “Mariupol Plan” at least until 2018. Putin has been determined to control that land ever since. And now it appears Russia is pushing Trump to deliver it.

This plan, complete with its suggestion that the U.S. is no longer truly a part of NATO but can broker between NATO and Russia, would replace the post–World War II rules-based international order with a new version of an older order. In the world before NATO and the other international institutions that were created after World War II, powerful countries dominated smaller countries, which had to do as their powerful neighbors demanded in order to survive.”
 
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Will this time be known as the era of the Trump Dialectic Doctrine?

Europe, half the pubs and even people like Nigel Farage are pushing back on this.

We have a carrier in the Caribbean, are flying RC 135s and interdicting Russian tankers that headed to Venezuela. This is killing a gnat (drug war) with a sledgehammer.

Why the sudden rush to put out a 28 pt plan that Putin was not expecting himself with such a short time to consider?

Coincidence is a rare occurrence. In most cases I do not believe in coincidence.

Catalysts Guyana not drugs, Iran, Russia, China the Ukraine invasion.

Possible Results: Maduro in a Dacha in Moscow, Europe stepping up even more for their and Ukraines defense.
 

ClemsonCO14

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Dec 11, 2016
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Please read. The United States has betrayed Ukraine to benefit the US and Russia. This is NOT “The Art of the Deal” and is horrible. Americans MUST protest against this treatment!

Quoted with citations from HRC 11/22/25.

“Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky addressed the Ukrainian people today. The current moment, he said, is “one of the most difficult” for the country. “Ukraine may soon face an extremely difficult choice. Either the loss of dignity or the risk of losing a key partner. Either 28 complicated points or the hardest winter yet—and the risks that follow,” Zelensky said.

Zelensky’s use of the word “dignity” recalled Ukraine’s 2014 “Revolution of Dignity” that ousted Russian-aligned president Viktor Yanukovych and turned the country toward Europe.

Zelensky was responding to a 28-point “peace” plan President Donald J. Trump is pressuring him to sign before Thanksgiving, November 27. The plan appears to have been leaked to Barak Ravid of Axios by Kirill Dmitriev, a top ally of Russia’s president Vladimir Putin, and reports say it was worked out by Dmitriev and Trump’s envoy Steve Witkoff. Ukrainian representatives and representatives from Europe were not included. Laura Kelly of The Hill reported on Wednesday that Congress was blindsided by the proposal, which Mark Toth and Jonathan Sweet of The Hill suggest Russia may be pushing now to take advantage of a corruption scandal roiling Ukraine’s government.

Luke Harding of The Guardian noted that the plan appears to have been translated from Russian, as many of the phrases in the text read naturally in that language but are awkward and clunky in English.

The plan is a Russian wish list. It begins by confirming Ukraine’s sovereignty, a promise Russia gave Ukraine in 1994 in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons but then broke when it invaded Ukraine in 2014.

The plan gives Crimea and most of the territory in Ukraine’s four eastern oblasts of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk to Russia, and it limits the size of the Ukrainian military.

It erases any and all accountability for the Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilians, including well-documented rape, torture, and murder. It says: “All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.”

It calls for $100 billion in frozen Russian assets to be invested in rebuilding and developing Ukraine. Since the regions that need reconstruction are the ones Russia would be taking, this means that Russian assets would go back to Russia. The deal says that Europe, which was not consulted, will unfreeze Russian assets and itself add another $100 billion to the reconstruction fund. The plan says the U.S. “will receive 50 percent of the profits from this venture,” which appears to mean that Europe will foot the bill for the reconstruction of Ukraine—Russia, if the plan goes through—and the U.S. and Russia will split the proceeds.

The plan asserts that “Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy,” with sanctions lifted and an invitation to rejoin the Group of Seven (G7), an informal group of countries with advanced economies—Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States, along with the European Union—that meets every year to discuss global issues. Russia was excluded from the group after it invaded Ukraine in 2014, and Putin has wanted back in.

According to the plan, Russia and “[t]he US will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.”

The plan requires Ukraine to amend its constitution to reject membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). It says “[a] dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the US, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.”

Not only does this agreement sell out Ukraine and Europe for the benefit of Russia—which attacked Ukraine—it explicitly separates the U.S. from NATO, a long-time goal of Russia’s president Vladimir Putin.

NATO grew out of the 1941 Atlantic Charter. Months before the U.S. entered World War II, U.S. president Franklin Delano Roosevelt and British prime minister Winston Churchill and their advisors laid out principles for an international system that could prevent future world wars. They agreed that countries should not invade each other and therefore the world should work toward disarmament, and that international cooperation and trade thanks to freedom of the seas would help to knit the world together with rising prosperity and human rights.

The war killed about 36.5 million Europeans, 19 million of them civilians, and left many of those who had survived homeless or living in refugee camps. In its wake, communism backed by the Soviet Union began to push east into Europe. In 1949, France, the U.K., Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg formed a military and economic alliance, the Western Union, to work together, but nations understood that resisting Soviet aggression, preventing the revival of European militarism, and guaranteeing international cooperation would require a transatlantic security agreement.

In 1949 the countries of the Western Union joined with the U.S., Canada, Portugal, Italy, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland to make up the twelve original signatories to the North Atlantic Treaty. In it, the countries reaffirmed “their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments” and their determination “to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law.”

They vowed that any attack on one of the signatories would be considered an attack on all, thus deterring war by promising strong retaliation. This system of collective defense has stabilized the world for 75 years. Thirty-two countries are now members, sharing intelligence, training, tactics, equipment, and agreements for use of airspace and bases. In 2024, NATO countries reaffirmed their commitment and said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine had “gravely undermined global security.”

They did so in the face of Russian aggression.

Putin invaded Crimea in 2014 after Ukrainians ousted Yanukovych, earning economic sanctions and expulsion from what was then the G8. But Crimea wasn’t enough: he wanted Ukraine’s eastern oblasts, the country’s industrial heartland. Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, who was running for the U.S. presidency against Donald Trump in 2016, would never stand for that land grab. But Trump was a different story.

According to Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s 2019 report on Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, in summer 2016, Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort discussed with his business partner, Russian operative Konstantin Kilimnik, “a ‘backdoor’ means for Russia to control eastern Ukraine.” According to the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee, the plan was for Trump to say he wanted peace in Ukraine and for him to appoint Manafort to be a “special representative” to manage the process. With the cooperation of Russian and Russian-backed Ukrainian officials, Manafort would help create

“an autonomous republic” in Ukraine’s industrialized eastern region and would work to have Russian-backed Yanukovych, for whom Manafort had worked previously, “elected to head that republic.”

According to the Senate Intelligence Committee, the men continued to work on what they called the “Mariupol Plan” at least until 2018. Putin has been determined to control that land ever since. And now it appears Russia is pushing Trump to deliver it.

This plan, complete with its suggestion that the U.S. is no longer truly a part of NATO but can broker between NATO and Russia, would replace the post–World War II rules-based international order with a new version of an older order. In the world before NATO and the other international institutions that were created after World War II, powerful countries dominated smaller countries, which had to do as their powerful neighbors demanded in order to survive.”
Absolutely disgusting and disrespectful proposal from a proven draft dodger. For us to profit off the war shocks the conscience - Trump has no soul.
 
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TigerGrowls

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The 28 pt plan already asks too much of Ukraine and Putin said he sees it as a starting point.

EU not happy again.

Another zig zag by Trump?

Trump trying to get even more support out of Europe?

I hope so. EU needs to go on war footing and flood Ukraine with weapons.

Is Venezuela in the cards? IMHO drugs are the pretext. Maduro threatened Pax Americana in our own backyard. His sin? Threatening Guyana and plotting to steal its resources. So we are hitting him in the pocketbook.

We might just need our stuff for ourselves.

So Putin and Ukraine must make a deal by Thanksgiving?

EU has the manufacturing base to easily outpace Russia.
So the EU will actively join the war? That's NATO and the US will not do that with Trump running the show. I do agree that the US may be using its weapons down in Venezuela.
 
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So the EU will actively join the war? That's NATO and the US will not do that with Trump running the show. I do agree that the US may be using its weapons down in Venezuela.
Not what I am saying. More like they need to start providing things like the Taurus, etc. Start manufacturing at a fast pace,
 
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TigerGrowls

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JUST IN: President Trump's team is considering bringing ZELENSKY to the U.S. this week in a bid to get a Russia-Ukraine peace deal by Thanksgiving - CBS

Marco Rubio has been pushing HARD overseas today for peace.

This would be MASSIVE if a peace deal or framework is agreed to by Thursday.

KEEP PUSHING! Blessed are the peacemakers! 🇺🇸
 

baltimorened

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ok

correct

probably correct given current situation.

Ukraine

Not necessarily. Russia is having trouble advancing so if Ukraine can take back land it can hold it with what they have. I believe with proper weaponry the Russians can be removed without using troops. Then move them in to hold the position. Russians would not last under a Gulf War 1 type assault by the Ukrainians with the proper weapons. I am thinking Apaches, A10s, cluster munitions, FAEs and modern artillery.

No need for USoA but EU needs troops in country after Russia is evicted.
you might be 100% right, but I can't recall one armed conflict where air attacks, artillery, or cluster munitions have caused an army to retreat.
 

baltimorened

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JUST IN: President Trump's team is considering bringing ZELENSKY to the U.S. this week in a bid to get a Russia-Ukraine peace deal by Thanksgiving - CBS

Marco Rubio has been pushing HARD overseas today for peace.

This would be MASSIVE if a peace deal or framework is agreed to by Thursday.

KEEP PUSHING! Blessed are the peacemakers! 🇺🇸

I don't know how you get to a peace treaty between the Ukraine and Russia by conducting peace negotiations between the US and Ukraine. Don't we sort of need Russia to agree?
 

TigerGrowls

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I don't know how you get to a peace treaty between the Ukraine and Russia by conducting peace negotiations between the US and Ukraine. Don't we sort of need Russia to agree?
This was in relation to that 28 point plan that Russia probably wrote and thus agreed to. Not even sure if that plan is still in play currently.
 

baltimorened

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This was in relation to that 28 point plan that Russia probably wrote and thus agreed to. Not even sure if that plan is still in play currently.
according to news reports that went out the window last week. It's now down to somewhere around 19 points and we don't have any idea how putin will react to the changes
 
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TigerGrowls

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ZELENSKY JUST BLEW UP THE PEACE EFFORT — AND NOW EUROPE OWNS THE WAR

Ben Harnwell has said the quiet truth out loud:

Zelensky didn’t merely decline Trump’s peace framework —
he staged a political insult tour, torching the deal in London and Washington within 24 hours.

Months of quiet diplomacy…
A 28-point roadmap…
Trump’s direct engagement with both sides…

All burned so Zelensky could drag America back into a war he cannot win without U.S. lives and U.S. money.

And Europe applauds — because Europe pays nothing.

As Harnwell put it, they swagger like gangsters because:

NATO shields them.
America bankrolls them.
U.S. power underwrites every risk they take.

Here is the moment everything changes:

“If Europe wants this fight — Europe can fight it. America is out.”

Trump spent nearly a year trying to stop an unwinnable war.

Zelensky spat on the offer — twice.

So the equation is now brutally simple:

If Europe wants escalation — Europe can fund it.
If Europe wants a long war — Europe can shoulder it.
If Europe thinks there’s victory ahead — Europe can walk into the fire alone.

America offered peace.

Zelensky chose the battlefield.

Europe just inherited the bill.
 

TigerGrowls

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Very interesting.



HUGE DEVELOPMENT: The United States has notified the European Union that it wants frozen Russian sovereign assets incorporated into a negotiated settlement of the Ukraine war. 🤣


That position immediately exposes a major problem for Brussels.


Europe has already functionally collateralized Russian central bank assets — not through formal seizure, but by pledging windfall profits and future proceeds from those assets to support long-term financing and loan structures for Ukraine.


This has been publicly acknowledged in EU and G7 policy frameworks over the past year.


That financing model was built on a core assumption:


Either the war would continue indefinitely, or Russia would be decisively defeated.


A negotiated peace breaks that assumption.


Once the United States asserts that frozen Russian assets must be treated as part of a settlement framework, rather than permanent war financing, several consequences follow. The EU’s legal justification weakens, the collateral underpinning those loans becomes unstable, and the long-standing claim that the asset freeze is “temporary” becomes difficult to sustain.


This is not merely a diplomatic disagreement. It is a forced accounting event — one with potential implications for Euroclear, EU financial institutions, and member-state balance sheets.


This context helps explain recent developments in Brussels. Over the past days and weeks, EU leadership has moved rapidly to bypass vetoes, expand emergency authorities, and escalate rhetoric — including renewed NATO statements about preparing for wider conflict.


The underlying strategy appears straightforward:


Treat frozen Russian assets as a de facto war chest.


In practice, that step had already been taken through collateralization, even if formal seizure was avoided.


President Trump is now explicitly challenging that structure.


By calling this out, he undermines the financial logic that sustained the war:


Asset freezes repurposed as leverage, sanctions transformed into financing tools, permanent emergency governance, and debt-backed escalation. Without those mechanisms, the EU’s war-financing model becomes difficult to maintain.


This also explains the visible urgency in European responses.


If a settlement occurs, the assets must be unwound, the loans lose their effective backing, legal exposure surfaces, and the financial burden remains in Europe — not in Russia, and not in the United States.


That is not primarily a geopolitical issue.


It is a financial stability issue.


Ukraine was never only a battlefield. It functioned as a pressure point within a broader post-1971 Atlantic financial system that relies on sanctions, asset control, and emergency authorities to remain coherent.


By forcing the asset question into the open, Trump has touched that pressure point — and the system is beginning to strain.


Ending the war does more than stop the fighting.


It forces Europe to confront how frozen sovereign assets were already used, and what happens when a war-based financing model is interrupted by peace.


That is why peace has become more destabilizing to the EU than full scale war.


🧨in short — Loan structures backed by frozen assets may have to be unwound, legal exposure clarified, and financial responsibility absorbed internally rather than deferred through emergency measures.


What was framed as temporary leverage during wartime becomes a permanent liability in peacetime.


The risk for the EU is not diplomatic embarrassment, but potential financial and institutional collapse


This is an analysis I wrote yesterday on the implications of the frozen Russian Assets —Substack:
redpillproject.substack.com/p/the-collapse…


If you are not following @PrometheanActn you probably should be. They are the OGs and have been hitting the nail on the head.
 

TigerGrowls

Heisman
Dec 21, 2001
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Europe spent the Russian assets they froze apparently and do not want a peace deal as Russia wants the money back.



"EUROPEAN BANKERS WANT WAR — TO RECOVER LOSSES AFTER FAILING TO DEFEAT RUSSIA.”


Budapest - Hungary has issued one of the most explosive accusations yet against the leadership of the European Union, directly challenging the war narrative promoted by Ursula von der Leyen and the Brussels establishment.


According to senior Hungarian officials, the real engine behind Europe’s push toward escalation is not security, not democracy, and not Ukraine — but finance.


The allegation is blunt: European banking and financial interests are pressuring for war because the strategy to economically defeat Russia failed, and the losses are massive. War, they argue, is now being treated as a mechanism to recover sunk costs, restructure debt, and justify further financial transfers under the banner of “security.”


From Budapest’s perspective, this explains why Brussels increasingly speaks the language of inevitability — more weapons, more money, more confrontation — while dismissing calls for negotiations as “dangerous” or “pro-Russian.”


“This is no longer about defending Europe,” Hungarian voices argue.
“It is about defending balance sheets.”


Hungary points to a widening gap between who pays and who decides. European societies face inflation, energy shocks, de-industrialisation, and budget strain. Meanwhile, financial institutions and debt holders tied to war financing demand continuity — because peace would force losses to be acknowledged.


In this reading, war becomes a financial instrument: a way to roll over debt, extend emergency mechanisms, and keep extraordinary spending politically acceptable.


Budapest’s warning is stark. When financial interests begin to dictate geopolitical outcomes, democracy becomes secondary, and diplomacy becomes an obstacle. Peace is no longer the goal — liquidity is.


Hungary’s position places it on a collision course with Brussels. While the Commission frames escalation as moral duty, Budapest frames it as systemic irresponsibility that risks dragging Europe into a conflict its citizens neither voted for nor can afford.


Whether one agrees with Hungary or not, the accusation cuts to the heart of the European project: Who is the EU really serving — its people, or its creditors?
Open sources
 

TigerGrowls

Heisman
Dec 21, 2001
44,180
33,207
113


This is why Zelenskyy is openly threatening Viktor Orbán’s life.

Hungary just intercepted Ukrainian armored vehicles transporting $40 million USD, €35 million, and 9 kg of gold seized on suspicion of money laundering. Seven Ukrainians detained, including a former intelligence officer.

Kyiv claims it’s legitimate, declared funds from Raiffeisen Bank Austria under a standard agreement and calls the action “hostage-taking” and theft.

But with Orbán blocking massive EU aid/loans to Ukraine and tensions over Russian oil transit exploding, this “coincidence” exposes the real stakes. Zelenskyy’s regime is furious because the grift is getting exposed.

No more blank checks.

Hungary is the only one standing up.