UK Cheerleading Cleaning House

[KYWildCatsFan]

Maybe I should have elaborated a little more. By judging, I mean a group of people who decide the winner of a competition. Referees do judge whether or not a play was legal or not, and their rulings can influence the outcome of a game, however, they do not decide which team, or individual, was the best and wins the competition.

I remember a game in 2017-2018 UK played against a team that never attended class that the referees sure did judge and decide the winner of the competition.

 

[Kampus Korner_rivals164031]

You do realize that these coaches and cheerleaders represent the university and are not like regular students

No really? Thanks for enlightening me. My objection is to the firing of the coaches and in the process tainting the entire team. Based on the facts highlighted in the report, the same corrective action could have been initiated less drastically.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

If it doesn't have to be judged and the fan only needs to understand the definite winner to be a sport then a spelling bee is a sport....and to quote Boogie this ain't no spelling bee.

I never said not being judged and a definite winner are the only criteria. Since we were talking about competitions that are currently called sports, I didn't think I needed to explain further. I was explaining why I think some competitions that people call sports aren't sports in my opinion. A spelling bee is not an athletic competition of any sort, judged, or not judged.

Edit: In other words, all sports are athletic competitions, but not all athletic competitions are sports.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

I never said not being judged and a definite winner are the only criteria. Since we were talking about competitions that are currently called sports, I didn't think I needed to explain further. I was explaining why I think some competitions that people call sports aren't sports in my opinion. A spelling bee is not an athletic competition of any sort, judged, or not judged.

But you kind of did since you said "things" and have already established that you think athletic ability has nothing to do with what is deemed a sport.

This will probably be heavily criticized, but in my humble opinion, anything that is judged isn't really a sport. Things that can be definitively determined, such as who crosses the finish line first, who jumps the highest, who jumps the furthest, who scores the most points, etc., are sports. If you have to have a panel judging a competition, then it is not sport. Judging is subjective, even with specific guidelines for judges to score competitions. I've never thought that anything that requires judging should be called sport. That's not to say that the people who participate in those competitions aren't extremely athletic. But being athletic does not equate to being a sport in my opinion.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

Is this supposed to be news? Anyone that knew any cheerleaders knows the co-ed squads all just bang out. The cheerleaders were doing this when I was there back in 2006. And from I understand this is the regular culture within cheerleading everywhere.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

JFC this sounds like a massive overreaction.

Agree. The only part even raised an eyebrow was that coaches knew and saw what was going on and didn't confiscate the alcohol.

Didn't read the actual report but don't see any mention of underage drinking. So seems like it was all legally consumed.

Some poor decisions. But not sure about this level of reaction. They literally gutted the most successful program in university history

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

......I know that this is not part of this topic....but for those who are wondering....Soccer is not a real sport either. Though for women I would accept it as a sport.

Then your definition of sport is vastly different than the majority of the world lol.

Soccer is the most popular SPORT in pretty much everywhere except here lol.

 

[HalHR2500]

Mitch gonna Mitch

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

But you kind of did since you said "things" and have already established that you think athletic ability has nothing to do with what is deemed a sport.

Context is your friend. I was talking about how to distinguish between things we currently call sports that are not, and things that are sports. You will have to show me where I said athletic ability has nothing to do with what is deemed a sport. I said just because something requires athletic ability doesn't automatically make it a sport. That is two completely different things. As I said in my edit above, which I don't know if you saw, All sports are athletic competitions, but not all athletic competitions are sports, in my opinion.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

Context is your friend. I was talking about how to distinguish between things we currently call sports that are not, and things that are sports. You will have to show me where I said athletic ability has nothing to do with what is deemed a sport. I said just because something requires athletic ability doesn't automatically make it a sport. That is two completely different things. As I said in my edit above, which I don't know if you saw, All sports are athletic competitions, but not all athletic competitions are sports, in my opinion.

Have you ever considered politics?

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Have you ever considered politics?

I'm not sure what your point is? I'm stating factual things that I have said. What do you disagree with in that post?

 

[Trinity45]

According to the athletes, in many cases the coaches did not know anything. Hence why they were sneaking it in. When they did know, in mosy instances they informed the students not to participate according the interviewed athletes own admission. What else can they really do, these are grown adults they are supervising?

If these were minors or high school kids, or if the coaches were providing alcohol to underage students, I could get it. However, the report pretty clearly outlines the athletes and alumni were providing it. Sounds like any frat or sorority on campus.

Just whitewash all you want.

 

[Dr. H Lecter]

Then your definition of sport is vastly different than the majority of the world lol.

Soccer is the most popular SPORT in pretty much everywhere except here lol.

For women it is an acceptable sport. I said that already. In the US it is just a fallback activity when you get cut from your HS basketball, baseball or football teams. IMO if mommy does not let you play football then at least have the cajones to play lacrosse.

 

[calismyhero]

Self portrait

yours would be a full blown douchebag TeoI is it?

 

[USMC Cat_rivals309254]

Did you read the whole report, the behavior was witnessed by the staff and ignored on multiple occasions. If this was just a bunch of dumb college kids getting together on their own fine, but some of this was school sponsored and the staff knew what was going on. White wash it all you want.

So it was typical college stuff, just the staff didn't turn their heads to look the other way?

 

[Cal-4-Three]

Think this is maybe a harsher punishment than normal based upon the whole Michigan St thing with the gymnasts? Idk, just the first thing that came to mind.

 

[Lead Belly]

This thread is an exposé in who had fun in college/early adult years vs those who didn't.

 

[stereonut]

I side with Mitch and his decision in this situation.
Can’t have the adults be involved with these actions with the kids.
Just my very humble opinion.

(And I had TONS of fun in college. Too much, really.)

 

[UK90]

You never know in these situations. People are generally very loyal to their coaches, so it could be they are just taking up for them. Or it could also be that the report is not accurate. If it is the latter, you would think they could discuss this with whoever was responsible for the report and the firing of the coaches and get it straightened out.

Do you think UK did this without doing its due diligence first?

UK conducted a three month investigation, so I think the window for an "oops, maybe we were mistaken" retraction has passed.

 

[UK90]

This thread is an exposé in who had fun in college/early adult years vs those who didn't.

No, it's not. I had an insane amount of decadent fun during my college years ..but I still understand why UK made this decision.

The issue is not what the kids were doing as much as the coaches. Which is something you don't seem to get.

 

[Saguaro Cat]

So it was typical college stuff, just the staff didn't turn their heads to look the other way?

Preventing "typical college stuff" is part of the staff's job. UK athletics had an event where a 4 year old child was hit by a car because of this exact "typical college stuff"

 

[sambowieshin_rivals]

Yea, it sounds like college kids being college kids. The part about the staff paying athletes to help coach kids and do some other work seemed normal as well. If you're paying them to do legal work, what is the issue? Sounds like UK may have just been digging for excuses to fire them.

I think where they crossed the line is that the alcohol, nudity, alcohol poisoning and mild hazing was taking place at an official UK sponsored cheer camp under the supervision of the coaches. If the cheer team had done this on their own, it could have been handled internally. It's all stuff we did in college but the sponsoring adults should have known better and used piss poor judgement. They deserved to be fired.

 

[ok-cats-computer]

After reading UK's press release, it isn't clear that the coaches had actual knowledge about the partying. The press release says "Coaches knew or reasonably should have known of inappropriate conduct by cheerleaders and failed to take sufficient steps to address the conduct". That to me reads like it wasn't proven that the coaches witnessed the party. More like the coaches stayed in their hotel rooms when they could have been out supervising the cheerleaders. However, you can always look back with 20/20 hindsight and criticize someone. The cheerleaders are adults, and unless the coaches were watching them 24/7, people in college want to party.

Also, UK's press release says "Coaches allowed cheerleading alumni to bring boats and alcohol to the retreat". Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I don't know that the coaches would have authority to go on an alumni's boat at Lake Cumberland and confiscate drinks or dump a cooler of beers in the trash. I haven't read the whole report, but just reading the press release makes me think the coaches may have been treated a little harshly.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Do you think UK did this without doing its due diligence first?

UK conducted a three month investigation, so I think the window for an "oops, maybe we were mistaken" retraction has passed.

Did I say UK didn't do it's due diligence? Please show me where I said that.

 

[Blueaz]

After reading UK's press release, it isn't clear that the coaches had actual knowledge about the partying. The press release says "Coaches knew or reasonably should have known of inappropriate conduct by cheerleaders and failed to take sufficient steps to address the conduct". That to me reads like it wasn't proven that the coaches witnessed the party. More like the coaches stayed in their hotel rooms when they could have been out supervising the cheerleaders. However, you can always look back with 20/20 hindsight and criticize someone. The cheerleaders are adults, and unless the coaches were watching them 24/7, people in college want to party.

Also, UK's press release says "Coaches allowed cheerleading alumni to bring boats and alcohol to the retreat". Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I don't know that the coaches would have authority to go on an alumni's boat at Lake Cumberland and confiscate drinks or dump a cooler of beers in the trash. I haven't read the whole report, but just reading the press release makes me think the coaches may have been treated a little harshly.

the other report I read...said coaches did know...I guess it's all in the report or reporter.

 

[Lead Belly]

I think where they crossed the line is that the alcohol, nudity, alcohol poisoning and mild hazing was taking place at an official UK sponsored cheer camp under the supervision of the coaches. If the cheer team had done this on their own, it could have been handled internally. It's all stuff we did in college but the sponsoring adults should have known better and used piss poor judgement. They deserved to be fired.

The cheer camp wasn't a school sponsored event, the boating trip to the Cumberlands was. The cheer camp was hosted by a cheerleader organization.

They told the students they couldn't have alcohol. These are grown *** adults who make their own choices. The student athletes should be held responsible for their actions if the coaches are being punished for it.

The mild hazing amounted to learning a lewd cheer from the 70's and performing it individually. Ohh, the humantiy of it all!!!!

 

[Lead Belly]

No, it's not. I had an insane amount of decadent fun during my college years ..but I still understand why UK made this decision.

The issue is not what the kids were doing as much as the coaches. Which is something you don't seem to get.

Lol, sure bud. If you say so. [laughing]

 

[vhcat70]

This will probably be heavily criticized, but in my humble opinion, anything that is judged isn't really a sport. Things that can be definitively determined, such as who crosses the finish line first, who jumps the highest, who jumps the furthest, who scores the most points, etc., are sports. If you have to have a panel judging a competition, then it is not sport. Judging is subjective, even with specific guidelines for judges to score competitions. I've never thought that anything that requires judging should be called sport. That's not to say that the people who participate in those competitions aren't extremely athletic. But being athletic does not equate to being a sport in my opinion.

I'm there too with this exception: If the contests are on the playing surface together in opposition to each other, judging is OK as a sport. I specifically think of boxing when I say that.

 

[bbnkat02]

The coaches knew. That’s the problem. You can’t know about that kinda stuff and not do anything about it. That’s where the hitch is.

You can’t supervise young adults 24/7. They have to make good choices on their own. But when you know they aren’t and they’re under your responsibility? That’s when you have to take action.

As far as the cheerleading alumni bringing the boats and alcohol, no the coaches couldn’t legally confiscate that, but they could ask them to leave. And that would piss off the alumni I know. Which I’m sure Mitch’s phone has been ringing all day with pissed off cheerleading boosters and alumni.

What did these coaches in was the conflict of interest. That will get you canned almost anywhere and almost immediately.

If it weren’t for that COI portion Id say their firing was too harsh. Suspension without pay would have been plenty of punishment. If it weren’t for that tacked on.

 

[L]

Why now? Did these alleged acts just start happening? I believe there is more to this story.

 

[Lead Belly]

Why now? Did these alleged acts just start happening? I believe there is more to this story.

Lol, no, according to the article some of it has been going on since the 70's. Some of the incidents they were fired for occured back in 2017 and 2018. Outrage culture at its finest on display.

 

[Blueaz]

It is so telling when a poster has an agenda...this thread is so proving it. One report gets read and that is now the gospel and absolutes are thrown out there like this is a court of law...

 

[Lead Belly]

The coaches knew. That’s the problem. You can’t know about that kinda stuff and not do anything about it. That’s where the hitch is.

You can’t supervise young adults 24/7. They have to make good choices on their own. But when you know they aren’t and they’re under your responsibility? That’s when you have to take action.

As far as the cheerleading alumni bringing the boats and alcohol, no the coaches couldn’t legally confiscate that, but they could ask them to leave. And that would piss off the alumni I know. Which I’m sure Mitch’s phone has been ringing all day with pissed off cheerleading boosters and alumni.

What did these coaches in was the conflict of interest. That will get you canned almost anywhere and almost immediately.

If it weren’t for that COI portion Id say their firing was too harsh. Suspension without pay would have been plenty of punishment. If it weren’t for that tacked on.

What was the conflict of interest though? They hired D1 cheerleaders from their team to help coach cheer and gymnastics in their gyms. Why would you not hire them when they are among the most qualified and able?

Who gives a **** who you hire to mow your yard and paint. As long as they were being given the option and compensated fairly, I fail to see the conflict of interest issue.

 

[Kybluedude]

Maybe the A Dept wanted to disable the cheerleading team. Bring it down. Jealous of the success? Money. Power play.
Odd that former members are calling BS on all of it. Not seeing anyone corroborate any of the allegations.

I remember UK falling on the sword and firing coaches back on the undocumented Emery package when there was absolutely no proof, pictures or money. Taped it up and sent it on? No shipping compnsy has that protocol.
This seems overkill and reactionary.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone_rivals]

So pretty much, they acted like state school college kids. When I was in college, they sent a group of us in athletics on a trip to represent our university and do a service project. We stayed in a casino and our sponsor just said, “You go to jail, you’re on your own.”

 

[ok-cats-computer]

the other report I read...said coaches did know...I guess it's all in the report or reporter.

I'll have to look for a copy of the full report. I'm basing my info on a summary of the report that I saw in a press release, which may have mislead me. You are absolutely correct that the way a reporter presents a story like this can twist the narrative. Of course, the media will focus on the naked cheerleaders, because that seems to be the most scandalous part of the story.

 

[loublue22_rivals308424]

Chess club is next

 

[Lead Belly]

So pretty much, they acted like state school college kids. When I was in college, they sent a group of us in athletics on a trip to represent our university and do a service project. We stayed in a casino and our sponsor just said, “You go to jail, you’re on your own.”

As they should. These aren't minors we are talking about when dealing with college kids. And if they are in college, there definitely exist a mental capacity to know right from wrong. At a certain point, they have to be held responsible for their own actions. Just because 1 adult is older than the others doesn't mean they have to be the babysitter.

 

[Blueaz]

I'll have to look for a copy of the full report. I'm basing my info on a summary of the report that I saw in a press release, which may have mislead me. You are absolutely correct that the way a reporter presents a story like this can twist the narrative. Of course, the media will focus on the naked cheerleaders, because that seems to be the most scandalous part of the story.

as well they should be...in fact they should be trying to find video evidence.

seriously, and not you...
but man...some posters love to run with one point of view, because they read an article. and they will die on that hill defending their pov.

 

[ok-cats-computer]

As far as the cheerleading alumni bringing the boats and alcohol, no the coaches couldn’t legally confiscate that, but they could ask them to leave. And that would piss off the alumni I know. Which I’m sure Mitch’s phone has been ringing all day with pissed off cheerleading boosters and alumni.

What did these coaches in was the conflict of interest. That will get you canned almost anywhere and almost immediately.

If it weren’t for that COI portion Id say their firing was too harsh. Suspension without pay would have been plenty of punishment. If it weren’t for that tacked on.

You make a persuasive argument. However, I don't think it is realistic to expect coaches to tell alumni that they can't drink on a private boat at the lake. I wouldn't expect Coach Stoops to patrol the parking lot at Commonwealth Stadium and confront any tailgaters that he saw drinking a beer on game day. Arguably, it's a bigger problem that we all know some alumni are drinking in the parking lot of Commonwealth Stadium on game day, because that happens on school property as opposed to a privately owned boat at the lake.

I'm also not sure that it is an impermissible conflict of interest for the cheerleading coaches to pay students to work with kids at a cheerleading business. Seems similar to Coach Cal hiring basketball players to work at the Father/Son Camps every summer. I think UK gets a cut of the money generated by Coach Cal's Father/Son Camps. I wonder if the biggest "sin" committed by the cheerleading coaches was not giving a portion of the money from the cheerleading business to UKAA/Mitch.