UK Cheerleading Cleaning House
- Thread starter WGtripod69
- Start date
Maybe I should have elaborated a little more. By judging, I mean a group of people who decide the winner of a competition. Referees do judge whether or not a play was legal or not, and their rulings can influence the outcome of a game, however, they do not decide which team, or individual, was the best and wins the competition.
That would eliminate boxing and MMA, and I don't know how you can't consider those sports.
You, sir, are a joke. I've read a number of your obvious baiting posts in this thread and they are way off base and very degrading. Not sure of your purpose in insulting the cheerleading squad as well as a remark comparing them to Mexican roofers (not sure where you thought you were going with that remark) but these cheerleaders are extremely athletic and most are outstanding in the area of gymnastics and were former champions in that sport before coming to UK. You obviously have something against cheerleaders and/or know nothing about the sport and the terrific level of competition they go through to become multi national champions. They most definitely are athletes competing in a tough competitive sport.
I'm not familiar with how bull riding is scored. If it is definitive, such as who stays on the bull the longest, then it would be a sport in my mind. However, if a group of judges watch and judge based on subjective criteria, then I wouldn't categorize it as a sport. But I don't know enough about it to answer your question.
Webster defines sport as a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other.
You must stay on the bull for 8 seconds and if you do you receive a score based on your performance as well as the performance of the bull. For anyone who doesn't think sitting on a 2,000 lb bull who is trying to buck you off and then kill you when he does I would suggest watching or better yet try riding a mechanical bull at a local bar and see how much athleticism, strength and hand eye coordination is required.
I don't watch MMA, so I can't really answer your question. I used to watch boxing, but haven't in years. When I watched boxing, it was my understanding that the ring side judges count punches thrown and punches landed by each boxer and they use those statistics determine the winner of each round. Those should be pretty definitive, if that is indeed how they do it. Of course a knockout is definitive. I've always thought of boxing as a sport for those reasons. In other words, the judges are not looking at form to determine which boxer is more textbook in order to pick a winner. They are tracking who is throwing and landing the most punches, which is the point of boxing. If the form of how the boxer threw punches or defended came into play, then I would say it's not a sport.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but why does something requiring athleticism, strength, and coordination automatically qualify it as a sport?
Why does not being judged qualify it as a sport? I mean you are saying that having the very attributes that you need to be an athlete doesn't qualify something as a sport but not being judged does.
If you are offended because I state the FACT that cheer is a supporting activity and NOT a sport...then that is on you. Swimming....sport. Gymnastics....Sport. Volleyball...sport. Softball...sport. womens Hoops....sport. It is insulting and degrading to ACTUAL female athletes to lump in miniature females who get tossed in the air and stacked like legos...with real female athletes who compete in sport. The pep band does the same thing as the miniature females by entertaining the crowd. That is their purpose. They are not competing. Leave there and try out for the UK Gymnastics team if they want to compete in a sport. Flashing their jazz hands and yelling BLUUUUUUUE.....WHIIIIIIITE does not make them a participant in sport.
I addressed my thoughts on MMA and boxing above. I don't watch MMA, so I can't really comment on that.
As far as skating and snowboarding go, it depends. Speed skating, for example, is a sport. Figure skating, in my mind is not.
I'm not sure how different snowboarding competitions are determined, so it's hard for me to comment. If some have definitive winners, in other words, who completes the course the fastest, etc., those would be sports in my mind. The ones who are judged based the subjective view of the people watching are not sports in my opinion. I'm not saying they aren't athletic and fun to watch. I just don't think if the winner is picked based on subjective criteria, that it is really a sport.
Those are some of the metrics; as are knockdowns, damage unflicted, strike significance and so on. It can be subjective. MMA they can't take into acount takedowns both attempts and successful, submission attempts, ground control time, strikes from kicks, punches, elbows, knees and so on. It's very subjective. You basically want finishes to ensure the judges can't screw it up.
I don't equate being athletic as meaning what you are doing is a sport. I have already explained my thinking. If the winner of a competition can be definitively determined, then it is a sport in my mind. If a group of people have to pick a winner based on subjective criteria, then it is not a sport in my opinion. What makes something qualify as a sport in your mind?
There is a great deal of truth in what you said although there are sports that do require a judge because you are not competing against a clock or another athlete. Diving would be a good example. I think gymnastics in general is a sport that universally requires judging. Curling....not a sport. LOL
Did you read the whole report, the behavior was witnessed by the staff and ignored on multiple occasions. If this was just a bunch of dumb college kids getting together on their own fine, but some of this was school sponsored and the staff knew what was going on. White wash it all you want.
I think it requires some sort of athletic ability to be considered a sport. Otherwise, based on your criteria, bass fishing is a sport since they go by weight of fish caught and there are no judges.
It's crazy that several former squad members are saying on Twitter that these things didn't happen like they what is being said. Is it just alumni trying to cover for the coaches and team or what. It seems there are conflicting stories based on the report and what current and former team members are putting out there.
According to the athletes, in many cases the coaches did not know anything. Hence why they were sneaking it in. When they did know, in mosy instances they informed the students not to participate according the interviewed athletes own admission. What else can they really do, these are grown adults they are supervising?
If these were minors or high school kids, or if the coaches were providing alcohol to underage students, I could get it. However, the report pretty clearly outlines the athletes and alumni were providing it. Sounds like any frat or sorority on campus.
You are competing against other fishermen. There is sponsor money. You are racing to beat others to your honey hole with a big *** motor. Requires skill. There is prize money (PRO). So yes, it is a sport by several metrics.
Yes, bass fishing would be a sport.
So is ball room dancing, or any dance competition, a sport? It requires athleticism and coordination. But the winner is picked based on someone's opinion of who executed the moves the best. In my opinion, that is not a sport. If I have to judge how textbook your movements are compared to other competitors to determine a winner, it's not a sport. The winner of sporting event should be evident to anyone watching it. It should not require experts to explain to the viewing audience why the judges thought one performance was better than another one. That is just not sports to me.
So you are admitting cheer-leading is a sport since they compete against other squads, there is a trophy and a champion is crowned, they have a fine honey hole and it requires skill.
While I agree in spirit I can’t condone This. The school had specific rules against hazing. Yes I was in college and did far worse but wasn’t school sponsored. Coaches knew and didn’t put an end to it. UK has standards and they cleaned house to end it. Whether uk didn’t or did act I could care less but... at least shows we don’t tolerate this unlike other schools and for that I’m proud to be bbn
You are entitled to your opinion but I will follow along the lines of Webster's definition of sport in forming my opinion of what is sport and what isn't.
You never know in these situations. People are generally very loyal to their coaches, so it could be they are just taking up for them. Or it could also be that the report is not accurate. If it is the latter, you would think they could discuss this with whoever was responsible for the report and the firing of the coaches and get it straightened out.
College life is the best of times. Wish I could reup.
I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just saying how I think of sport.
With Webster's broad definition, we could come up with an infinite list of competitions that are based on subjective things that would all qualify as sport.
Your words not mine. It is not a universal, competing does not mean sport. "Competing" against the other team's rah rahs does not happen on game day at Rupp. To the degree there is cheerleading "competition" against other teams----elsewhere...you could make an argument that their competitions are a sporting event. I disagree but you at least are making a fair point. But competing is NOT their primary function. Their prime function is game day support of the Basketball team. Just like the primary job of a bakery chef is to bake a fantastic cake for sale to the public. From that, there became cake competitions at the fair etc....where they judge best cake for those who compete. That does not make a chef an athlete. His primary function is to bake a cake for sale...not to compete.
If it doesn't have to be judged and the fan only needs to understand the definite winner to be a sport then a spelling bee is a sport....and to quote Boogie this ain't no spelling bee.
I don't know how anyone could watch just one of their rountines and NOT conclude that it's a sport.
......I know that this is not part of this topic....but for those who are wondering....Soccer is not a real sport either. Though for women I would accept it as a sport.
Seriously, college students, drinking, going half naked, chanting lewd phrases during off campus activities and Mitch opts to take the harshest form of discipline possible against the coaches? The 3 month “investigative report” says there were no acts of sexual assaults or sexual misconduct. Moreover, UK cheerleaders and their coaches, past and present, have a demonstrated record of exemplary performance, accomplishments and conduct dating back to the 1970’s. Mitch taints all of this with a knee jerk overreaction which is disproportionate to the alleged transgressions.
The report is released to the public which results in public humiliation for these coaches and the forced resignation of T. Lynn Williams who led UK cheerleading to national prominence. These coaches are now forced to wear a “Scarlett Letter” because of Mitch Barnhart’s outrageous over reprimand.
There were certainly other less drastic disciplinary options to be employed besides firing these coaches which Mitch knew would be made public along with the “investigative report.”. A written reprimand or suspension would have sent the same message to the coaches and accomplished the same result.
When I read the headline to this story, I thought there must be some serious wrongdoing involved but after reading the report, I concluded as“Clara” did in the old Wendy’s TV commercial, “Where’s the beef?” I see nothing more than college kids being college kids. Granted, if this behavior took place at an official UK related activity in the presence of UK coaches over which they had supervisory control, they should have stopped it. But, should the coaches have been fired, considering this has been going on for years? No. The thing is, had these cheerleaders engaged in the very same behavior that got their coaches fired, but done so on their own and not at an official UK related event, there would be no basis for any disciplinary action.
What about the cheerleaders? Were they kicked off the team or disciplined for behaving like many other college kids? The report says some cheerleaders got paid for doing work on a coach’s home. The kids wanted to make some money and the coach extended the opportunity and paid them. This is not a regulated NCAA sport. No NCAA rules were broken.
Despite the fact that UK cheerleaders have been behaving just like other UK students have for decades, Mitch chooses to publicly shame the team and the coaches with this outrageous over discipline. Shame on Mitch for his gross abuse of discretion and his holier than thou, intolerant attitude about college life.
The report is released to the public which results in public humiliation for these coaches and the forced resignation of T. Lynn Williams who led UK cheerleading to national prominence. These coaches are now forced to wear a “Scarlett Letter” because of Mitch Barnhart’s outrageous over reprimand.
There were certainly other less drastic disciplinary options to be employed besides firing these coaches which Mitch knew would be made public along with the “investigative report.”. A written reprimand or suspension would have sent the same message to the coaches and accomplished the same result.
When I read the headline to this story, I thought there must be some serious wrongdoing involved but after reading the report, I concluded as“Clara” did in the old Wendy’s TV commercial, “Where’s the beef?” I see nothing more than college kids being college kids. Granted, if this behavior took place at an official UK related activity in the presence of UK coaches over which they had supervisory control, they should have stopped it. But, should the coaches have been fired, considering this has been going on for years? No. The thing is, had these cheerleaders engaged in the very same behavior that got their coaches fired, but done so on their own and not at an official UK related event, there would be no basis for any disciplinary action.
What about the cheerleaders? Were they kicked off the team or disciplined for behaving like many other college kids? The report says some cheerleaders got paid for doing work on a coach’s home. The kids wanted to make some money and the coach extended the opportunity and paid them. This is not a regulated NCAA sport. No NCAA rules were broken.
Despite the fact that UK cheerleaders have been behaving just like other UK students have for decades, Mitch chooses to publicly shame the team and the coaches with this outrageous over discipline. Shame on Mitch for his gross abuse of discretion and his holier than thou, intolerant attitude about college life.
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