Turk's Game Analysis and Player Grades

[Mr Wickerpark]

Hunter's a legit 5 star QB recruit with 2.5 years of training under his belt when the 2019 season starts (he enrolled in Clemson in Feb 2017). That's 3 full offseasons of training: 2 in our system.

It's reasonable to expect a high quality of production from him; perhaps more consistent excellence than we've seen from CT this year.

Seriously he should be nowhere near a freshman in quality.

I agree. Honestly, other than a 2 minute offense against Nebraska, Clayton hasnt done squat and has been playing double bogey football.

Im looking forward to moving forward with Hunter. We are in danger of having a losing record this year as we cant take illinois for granted.

 

[mikewebb68]

I agree. Honestly, other than a 2 minute offense against Nebraska, Clayton hasnt done squat and has been playing double bogey football.

Im looking forward to moving forward with Hunter. We are in danger of having a losing record this year as we cant take illinois for granted.

Nice CT bashing, only one of the winningest QBs in program history, who worked like mad to get himself back from an ACL injury. We don't win any games without him this year. None, zip.

And I will screename wager you we don't finish with a winning record. You on?

How did that easy money bet on the ND game go, btw?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Nice CT bashing, only one of the winningest QBs in program history, who worked like mad to get himself back from an ACL injury. We don't win any games without him this year. None, zip.

And I will screename wager you we don't finish with a winning record. You on?

How did that easy money bet on the ND game go, btw?

Correction, he is the winningest QB in program history not ONE of the winningest.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Correction, he is the winningest QB in program history not ONE of the winningest.

Yes he has won, but he benefitted from strong Hankwitz led defences (especially his freshman year where he was very mediocre at best) and JJTBC. Alabama has been winning for years, but their winning doesn't mean their QBs have been world beaters until Tua. Clayton is who he is. A very solid and sometimes brilliant QB with perhaps the best physical gifts of any we've had. But, let's not pretend that he is the best QB we have ever had. I think he's far from it. Just way too consistent and too many bad decisions.

Based on the reports from Clemson as well as his limited time on the field there, I don't think it's a reach at all to presume we are likely to upgrade at the position next year. Having Kirtz and Hooper (and Skorownek and Cameron Green) to throw to will help as well.

 

[CSCatFan1]

This guy came close to dominating. Pretty much plugged up everything. Isn't his recent plat sorta 'out of the blue?" Guy pretty much picked up where Lancaster left off. Very interesting play.

Some guys take a while to develop. Wyatt has always been technically sound; his father is a former DL coach at NU.

 

[mikewebb68]

Someone will need to help me on this one because I was at the game and didn’t see the replay. If I recall, both Pace and Whillock we’re back there with Whillock late on the help. That was unusual in that their were no CB’s back there, but ND was sending a lot of players out on routes because they didn’t need to keep them in to block our DL. Probably more on Pace than Whillock. I actually like both of them, but they are still young.

Per Chappy, it was on Pace.

 

[zeek55]

I agree. Honestly, other than a 2 minute offense against Nebraska, Clayton hasnt done squat and has been playing double bogey football.

Im looking forward to moving forward with Hunter. We are in danger of having a losing record this year as we cant take illinois for granted.

CT is a winner. He's had several great games this year and a few not so great moments. He's also been dealing with ACL recovery and that limited him for most of the early part of this season.


Regardless, the CT era here has been special. We all hope that Hunter will take the program to greater heights than it's ever reached, but CT and JJ and all the players who came before laid the foundation for future success.

I think going out with a division title and possibly more would cement CT's status here regardless of what comes next.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Yes he has won, but he benefitted from strong Hankwitz led defences (especially his freshman year where he was very mediocre at best) and JJTBC. Alabama has been winning for years, but their winning doesn't mean their QBs have been world beaters until Tua. Clayton is who he is. A very solid and sometimes brilliant QB with perhaps the best physical gifts of any we've had. But, let's not pretend that he is the best QB we have ever had. I think he's far from it. Just way too consistent and too many bad decisions.

Based on the reports from Clemson as well as his limited time on the field there, I don't think it's a reach at all to presume we are likely to upgrade at the position next year. Having Kirtz and Hooper (and Skorownek and Cameron Green) to throw to will help as well.

I don’t care so much how but how many.

 

[ricko6543211]

Nice CT bashing, only one of the winningest QBs in program history, who worked like mad to get himself back from an ACL injury. We don't win any games without him this year. None, zip.

And I will screename wager you we don't finish with a winning record. You on?

How did that easy money bet on the ND game go, btw?

I mean... I agree he is over the top CT bashing here (not that is a surprise), but you are also over the top CT homering here. There's definitely a drop off after him. But that doesn't mean he's played great. He's had plenty of good stretches and plenty of bad stretches. To say we wouldn't have won a game without him is also disingenuous. I thought he made plenty of good plays against Akron, but he also directly gave the opponent 21 points... there's a good chance if you take that away TJ could have gotten a win. I also think TJ could have led us to >15 points of offense against Rutgers, that was CT's worst game to date. Hard to say about Wisconsin, CT didn't have a good game there either and Wiscy only scored 17 with 7 of those aided by a CT pick, but the game flow might have played out quite differently without him in there.

And just because he is "winningest" doesn't mean he's been great. Look at his stats throughout his time here. Career is at 6.3 ypa, with 58 TDs and 40 Ints in 48 games. Obviously he's been hindered by limited playmakers and poor OL play at times, but that's not all of it. Without a strong defense and an excellent RB for most of the time in JJ, he doesn't get all those wins. I like Clayton a lot and he's been very valuable to us, let's just try to be balanced here...

 

[Pukecat]

Nice CT bashing, only one of the winningest QBs in program history, who worked like mad to get himself back from an ACL injury. We don't win any games without him this year. None, zip.

And I will screename wager you we don't finish with a winning record. You on?

How did that easy money bet on the ND game go, btw?

He’s crazy for suggesting a losing record. How likely are we to drop 2 of the next 3? I feel like the worst we could do is 7-7.

 

[Pukecat]

I mean... I agree he is over the top CT bashing here (not that is a surprise), but you are also over the top CT homering here. There's definitely a drop off after him. But that doesn't mean he's played great. He's had plenty of good stretches and plenty of bad stretches. To say we wouldn't have won a game without him is also disingenuous. I thought he made plenty of good plays against Akron, but he also directly gave the opponent 21 points... there's a good chance if you take that away TJ could have gotten a win. I also think TJ could have led us to >15 points of offense against Rutgers, that was CT's worst game to date. Hard to say about Wisconsin, CT didn't have a good game there either and Wiscy only scored 17 with 7 of those aided by a CT pick, but the game flow might have played out quite differently without him in there.

And just because he is "winningest" doesn't mean he's been great. Look at his stats throughout his time here. Career is at 6.3 ypa, with 58 TDs and 40 Ints in 48 games. Obviously he's been hindered by limited playmakers and poor OL play at times, but that's not all of it. Without a strong defense and an excellent RB for most of the time in JJ, he doesn't get all those wins. I like Clayton a lot and he's been very valuable to us, let's just try to be balanced here...

Well you said it all when you admitted his OL and WR have been poor. Aren’t those two of the most important factors to QB play? If you don’t have protection and guys can’t get open, how are you going to complete passes?

 

[Turk_rivals223269]

Nice CT bashing, only one of the winningest QBs in program history, who worked like mad to get himself back from an ACL injury. We don't win any games without him this year. None, zip.

And I will screename wager you we don't finish with a winning record. You on?

How did that easy money bet on the ND game go, btw?

Ya know, I just don't know dog. I think those who think that CT is a goodie but nothing wow have very valid points and I don't think they are bashing him. He has worked hisself into a pretty good QB and if he finishes the season well he may get a Big10 honorable mention. That's not bashing. He just isn't a difference maker against stiff competition and is actually pretty neutralized. Just not impromptu or original to make anything happen if it isn't there. Good QB and we are lucky to have him, but don't make him into Dan Marino. And don't degrade the possibilities of Hunter Johnson. If you don't think Johnson can pick up where CT left off at then shame on you. IMO, the bar is actually set pretty low for Hunter to exceed this year's production at the QB position. In fact, I'd say he has better than equal chances to exceed the productivity we got this year out of QB because we haven't gotten squat out of QB this year.
Only 60% completion. 10 INT's 11 TD's. And you say that Hunter can't top this? Really?

Sorry but those who say that CT is a good QB but nothing wow aren't the bad guys here. I'm actually looking forward to Hunter. And I hope we have a winning record this year.

 

[Turk_rivals223269]

Well you said it all when you admitted his OL and WR have been poor. Aren’t those two of the most important factors to QB play? If you don’t have protection and guys can’t get open, how are you going to complete passes?

STOP IT! Sorry, but when has NU had any notable OL's like forever? Go back and watch tapes of all of the hits that Persa, CJ, Baz got for staying in the pocket and not having happy feet bailing out. Go back and watch how they improvised as well and made plays happen when they weren't there instead of running out of bounce or tossing the ball out of bounce to be safe. Go back and watch all of them run for the sticks and get that extra yard and taking that hit without going out of bounds.
We aren't getting much production out of our QB play. That's a fact. Like it or not. Sorry but 10 INT's with only 11 TD's isn't good enough with a 60% completion. I even suspect that Fitz is developing more confidence in Bowser and that's why we are running the ball more. Our OL has given CT adequate pocket protection if he only stepped up in it. Why can't you guys admit that CT isn't a great QB? And those of us who say that CT is a good QB but nothing wow aren't the bad guy here. As a 5th year senior he is a solid game manager.

 

[ricko6543211]

Well you said it all when you admitted his OL and WR have been poor. Aren’t those two of the most important factors to QB play? If you don’t have protection and guys can’t get open, how are you going to complete passes?

I mean, different level and different competition, but check out Aaron Rodgers. He's had a hodge podge of WRs with lots of injuries and outright bad OLs with no running game, he's done okay. Obviously we aren't expecting CT to be Rodgers. But if he were an elite college QB he still would have been able to produce better than 58% completion %, 6.3 ypa, 55/40 TD/Int ratio. And while the pass catchers generally have been weaker, he did have AC80 one year, and Flynn this year, and he's had some pretty solid TE/SB players. Not completely bereft.

I'm not saying he's been bad, that's not true at all. He also plays a lot of pretty good defenses in tough weather conditions in this conference. He's been an above average B1G QB and I'm very happy that we have him. But he has not been a top-end one.

 

[cat inkansas]

I mean... I agree he is over the top CT bashing here (not that is a surprise), but you are also over the top CT homering here. There's definitely a drop off after him. But that doesn't mean he's played great. He's had plenty of good stretches and plenty of bad stretches. To say we wouldn't have won a game without him is also disingenuous. I thought he made plenty of good plays against Akron, but he also directly gave the opponent 21 points... there's a good chance if you take that away TJ could have gotten a win. I also think TJ could have led us to >15 points of offense against Rutgers, that was CT's worst game to date. Hard to say about Wisconsin, CT didn't have a good game there either and Wiscy only scored 17 with 7 of those aided by a CT pick, but the game flow might have played out quite differently without him in there.

And just because he is "winningest" doesn't mean he's been great. Look at his stats throughout his time here. Career is at 6.3 ypa, with 58 TDs and 40 Ints in 48 games. Obviously he's been hindered by limited playmakers and poor OL play at times, but that's not all of it. Without a strong defense and an excellent RB for most of the time in JJ, he doesn't get all those wins. I like Clayton a lot and he's been very valuable to us, let's just try to be balanced here...

I mean... I agree he is over the top CT bashing here (not that is a surprise), but you are also over the top CT homering here. There's definitely a drop off after him. But that doesn't mean he's played great. He's had plenty of good stretches and plenty of bad stretches. To say we wouldn't have won a game without him is also disingenuous. I thought he made plenty of good plays against Akron, but he also directly gave the opponent 21 points... there's a good chance if you take that away TJ could have gotten a win. I also think TJ could have led us to >15 points of offense against Rutgers, that was CT's worst game to date. Hard to say about Wisconsin, CT didn't have a good game there either and Wiscy only scored 17 with 7 of those aided by a CT pick, but the game flow might have played out quite differently without him in there.

And just because he is "winningest" doesn't mean he's been great. Look at his stats throughout his time here. Career is at 6.3 ypa, with 58 TDs and 40 Ints in 48 games. Obviously he's been hindered by limited playmakers and poor OL play at times, but that's not all of it. Without a strong defense and an excellent RB for most of the time in JJ, he doesn't get all those wins. I like Clayton a lot and he's been very valuable to us, let's just try to be balanced here...

I

I mean... I agree he is over the top CT bashing here (not that is a surprise), but you are also over the top CT homering here. There's definitely a drop off after him. But that doesn't mean he's played great. He's had plenty of good stretches and plenty of bad stretches. To say we wouldn't have won a game without him is also disingenuous. I thought he made plenty of good plays against Akron, but he also directly gave the opponent 21 points... there's a good chance if you take that away TJ could have gotten a win. I also think TJ could have led us to >15 points of offense against Rutgers, that was CT's worst game to date. Hard to say about Wisconsin, CT didn't have a good game there either and Wiscy only scored 17 with 7 of those aided by a CT pick, but the game flow might have played out quite differently without him in there.

And just because he is "winningest" doesn't mean he's been great. Look at his stats throughout his time here. Career is at 6.3 ypa, with 58 TDs and 40 Ints in 48 games. Obviously he's been hindered by limited playmakers and poor OL play at times, but that's not all of it. Without a strong defense and an excellent RB for most of the time in JJ, he doesn't get all those wins. I like Clayton a lot and he's been very valuable to us, let's just try to be balanced here...

I think this is a pretty balanced analysis. Counting on "reversion to the mean" to give us some nice performances in the coming weeks.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Ya know, I just don't know dog. I think those who think that CT is a goodie but nothing wow have very valid points and I don't think they are bashing him. He has worked hisself into a pretty good QB and if he finishes the season well he may get a Big10 honorable mention. That's not bashing. He just isn't a difference maker against stiff competition and is actually pretty neutralized. Just not impromptu or original to make anything happen if it isn't there. Good QB and we are lucky to have him, but don't make him into Dan Marino. And don't degrade the possibilities of Hunter Johnson. If you don't think Johnson can pick up where CT left off at then shame on you. IMO, the bar is actually set pretty low for Hunter to exceed this year's production at the QB position. In fact, I'd say he has better than equal chances to exceed the productivity we got this year out of QB because we haven't gotten squat out of QB this year.
Only 60% completion. 10 INT's 11 TD's. And you say that Hunter can't top this? Really?

Sorry but those who say that CT is a good QB but nothing wow aren't the bad guys here. I'm actually looking forward to Hunter. And I hope we have a winning record this year.

Not sure I have seen Hunter being degraded by anyone. Hunter is a 5 star talent according to the services. I think most think he will thrive immediately. I know I do. My take, is the QB almost always gets too much blame for a loss and too much credit for a win. People are quick to look at numbers both ways. The CT supporters point to the win column. The detractors point to interceptions. IMO, we would have won plenty of games the last 4 years with Alviti or even TJ at the helm. Just not as many. Interceptions can also be misleading. How many are deflections off our own WR’s, how many are arm punts? I have my doubts CT will be a NFL player, but no way I would have predicted Trevor to even make a practice squad. Bottom line to me is I personally have been grateful he selected NU in 2014. Wins are what matter and he has done that better than anyone before him.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

Ya know, I just don't know dog. I think those who think that CT is a goodie but nothing wow have very valid points and I don't think they are bashing him. He has worked hisself into a pretty good QB and if he finishes the season well he may get a Big10 honorable mention. That's not bashing. He just isn't a difference maker against stiff competition and is actually pretty neutralized. Just not impromptu or original to make anything happen if it isn't there. Good QB and we are lucky to have him, but don't make him into Dan Marino. And don't degrade the possibilities of Hunter Johnson. If you don't think Johnson can pick up where CT left off at then shame on you. IMO, the bar is actually set pretty low for Hunter to exceed this year's production at the QB position. In fact, I'd say he has better than equal chances to exceed the productivity we got this year out of QB because we haven't gotten squat out of QB this year.
Only 60% completion. 10 INT's 11 TD's. And you say that Hunter can't top this? Really?

Sorry but those who say that CT is a good QB but nothing wow aren't the bad guys here. I'm actually looking forward to Hunter. And I hope we have a winning record this year.

It should be noted that I dont believe any other NU QB has had the luxury to pass to a WR and TE who are on active rosters of the NFL, as Thorson has over his career. Its not like he hasnt had talent around him.

 

[Pukecat]

STOP IT! Sorry, but when has NU had any notable OL's like forever? Go back and watch tapes of all of the hits that Persa, CJ, Baz got for staying in the pocket and not having happy feet bailing out. Go back and watch how they improvised as well and made plays happen when they weren't there instead of running out of bounce or tossing the ball out of bounce to be safe. Go back and watch all of them run for the sticks and get that extra yard and taking that hit without going out of bounds.
We aren't getting much production out of our QB play. That's a fact. Like it or not. Sorry but 10 INT's with only 11 TD's isn't good enough with a 60% completion. I even suspect that Fitz is developing more confidence in Bowser and that's why we are running the ball more. Our OL has given CT adequate pocket protection if he only stepped up in it. Why can't you guys admit that CT isn't a great QB? And those of us who say that CT is a good QB but nothing wow aren't the bad guy here. As a 5th year senior he is a solid game manager.

I think Persa was better because he was more accurate and could run but no offense to CJ or Baz but Clayton is better than they were.

 

[Pukecat]

It should be noted that I dont believe any other NU QB has had the luxury to pass to a WR and TE who are on active rosters of the NFL, as Thorson has over his career. Its not like he hasnt had talent around him.

Haha it would be quite a feat for Bacher’s receivers to still be in the NFL at this point. Even Kafka’s guys. Hell, Persa’s guys. Don’t you know the average NFL player’s career duration?

 

[docrugby1]

I wonder if it's a gentleman's agreement with Big10 coaches or do other Big10 teams actually try to do returns? IMO, the Notre Dame kickng was it's weakest part of the game. We had some really good opportunities last night but doing a fair catch at the 15 yard line was odd. Well, anyways, that's not why we lost but we aren't good enough to just leave plays on the field if we want to beat our first top 5 team since 1959.

I believe we beat preseason #1 Miami with Ted Hendricks in the late 60's

 

[zeek55]

Everybody should know that Hunter Johnson's ceiling or potential is literally #1 overall NFL draft pick. His ceiling is as high as any QB we've ever had.


He's also getting a pair of superb weapons in the 2019 class.


But we can worry about all of that next year. We're 5-1 and we need CT to finish the season strong.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

It should be noted that I dont believe any other NU QB has had the luxury to pass to a WR and TE who are on active rosters of the NFL, as Thorson has over his career. Its not like he hasnt had talent around him.

Rashad Lawrence hung around the NFL from 2014-2017 and was on the Jaguars' active roster for part of the 2015. He's currently playing in Canada.

Jeremy Ebert was drafted in the 7th round and hung around the NFL from 2012-2014, including time on the Jaguars' active roster in 2013.

Drake Dunsmore was drafted in the seventh round and stuck around the Bucs' practice roster in 2012 but retired due to injury.

Zeke Markshausen hung around the NFL from 2010-2012, though no time on the active roster as far as I know/can tell.

Eric Peterman was on the Bears' practice squad for 2009.

Kyle Prater stuck around the NFL from 2015-2016, though no time on the active roster.

Try again. We've had some marginal "next level" talent amongst our pass catchers, just not nearly enough.