Oh jeez did this thread go off the rails and skid into a field of nothingness.
Toughness
- Thread starter RU72
- Start date
Maybe with the back end of our regular season schedule he’lll be able to lighten the load on said starters… if Minny is that bad….
Winning the B1G title and not making the sweet 16 would be kind of embarrassing. So Id also take sweet 16.
Toughness is a great intangible. So is experience. This club has both.
I agree totally with the fatigue issue.
The average person has no idea how demanding high level athletics can be .
These kids have to be at their best every day
I played 3 high school sports but never at a level close to this and I got tired at times
My son started 4 years in midfield for Rutgers Soccer
Believe me, dead legs can creep up on any athlete
Once you get them, all you can do is rest
The key is to get the proper rest throughout the season
Rest in between games can more then make up for the extra 5 minutes each game
The staff has to be aware of this with the way we play
Pike is a smart man , I'm sure he is on top of this
The average person has no idea how demanding high level athletics can be .
These kids have to be at their best every day
I played 3 high school sports but never at a level close to this and I got tired at times
My son started 4 years in midfield for Rutgers Soccer
Believe me, dead legs can creep up on any athlete
Once you get them, all you can do is rest
The key is to get the proper rest throughout the season
Rest in between games can more then make up for the extra 5 minutes each game
The staff has to be aware of this with the way we play
Pike is a smart man , I'm sure he is on top of this
Rutgers doesn’t have the depth?? We have one of the deepest benches in the Big Ten what are you talking about .. 8 guys play regular minutes and could start and then Reiber is the 9th guy plays like the 7th guy on a lot of teams
I would have agreed before the season started but Reiber has been a let down so far. Maybe it's because he's not getting his playing time this year but I was really hoping Reiber would contribute big this year. Wolfman coming along really nice probably is bigger reason why he is not getting his minutes but in any case, when Reiber got his minutes, he hasnt shown anything.
Miller was coming along nicely until everyone got healthy again.
At least Miller is really good on defense.
I think if we get into any kind of foul trouble or people getting tired, Reiber and Miller is still good enough to go from 4mins a game to 10mins a game.
Not sure if its an agenda but you seem to have continual hedging tactics in attempts to bring expectations back to the middle.
Now that the "who will take the last shot?" theme has cooled for the moment, next up is minutes distribution using last year with 40% different major contributors as a barometer.
The team plays approximately 2 games a week and there are 7 major contributors this season compared to 5 last season. Since the roster appears to be deeper this year - and your comment that we are only a bubble team at this point - what you really appear to be saying that you don't think this team is good enough to make a sustained impact in the BIG or tourney. I'm not sure how your suggestion for expanding the significant minutes rotation to 8 or 9 by awarding extra minutes to 2 lesser performs will make the team better in the short or long term. It would be more likely for Pike to manage potential fatigue through practice (i.e. infrequent days off or film room).
While the nature of sports sometimes means things can change on a dime.....my own feeling is that right now this team has the ability to beat any team in college basketball. While that will likely not happen, I have not had this type of feeling for any other RU Basketball squad in my time as a fan.
Last year was different. The bench was thin because it was a huge drop off in every facet when a starter went to the bench. There’s only one reason remaining this season that at times forces Pike to play Paul and Caleb big minutes - that’s to navigate on ball perimeter pressure. Remember - both of them missed a lot of early season games so to this point, he’s probably wanted to get them as many reps as possible playing together before BIG play kicked into gear.
Turnovers are the biggest things holding us back - particularly the type that lead to run outs the other way. We prevented these Monday and that’s a big reason we won. No turnovers at all from Paul. Caleb had 3 but one was on the last inbounds play and another was an offensive foul (a side out). Those guys did a really good job of protecting the ball.
That’s because every team has elite scorers who hit buckets at a high percentage even when the opponent plays perfect defense. Defense is insanely tough in the NBA, but when players have range out to 30 feet or can dribble through several players to get to the rim, you have a lot more scoring.
Looking at box scores - outside of the blowouts and games when Paul and Caleb were out we have 8 guys who consistently see time and 4 of them are guards. When we go Cam, Caleb, and Paul to start the only other person playing (except for maybe 2-mins per game for Miller) is Simpson. Those are long shifts to have 2 of the 3 always on the court. Need Miller to develop to allow 2 of the starters to break when needed.
Only reason why Pike is playing starters 30+ mins is because of these stupid rankings based on point differential.
These dumb rankings based on point differential will make us being ranked #7-#10 in the bracket or being a bubble team with the same record.
These dumb rankings based on point differential will make us being ranked #7-#10 in the bracket or being a bubble team with the same record.
eh....
in my teens and my 20s.
i also played high school sports and college FB.
after games, on saturdays, i would be outside shooting hoops all day, running full court.
it was non stop playing ball basketball, tennis, football, baseball. But I never thought Im so tired because I played game few days ago...... I still went out at night to bars/nightclubs and dance till the morning and be fine next day...
Stamina & Energy at that early age is crazy...
I haven’t looked at how many minutes they’re typically playing in the second half, but I think a big part of the reason for the extended minutes in this game was because of the foul trouble.
Mag and Spencer both picked up their 3rd just over 3 minutes into the second half. Hyatt also picked up his 3rd about 7 minutes into the second half.
Totally agree, keeping team chemistry and everyone mentally on board and engaged is more challenging than the physical fatigue part.
I just compared last year's Rutgers starting five minutes per game in conference play to UNC's. There's almost no difference. UNC's starters averaged 30-34 minutes, ours were 29+ to 34.9 minutes. They had three bench guys average 10-12 minutes, we had four in the 7.7 - 12+ range. That does not include Jones, who averaged 7.7 but clearly fell out of the rotation. Somehow that did not stop UNC from having enough left in the tank to reach the finals.
I think we'll be okay.
I think we'll be okay.
I'll agree with sentence 1.
Sentence 2 is still an issue in my mind, but I am very happy with what I saw with both Paul AND Cam.
Sentence 3. As of RIGHT NOW we are a bubble team. Now it is silly to do analysis on Jan 4, but our current resume (not our future resume) has a win vs WF, Indiana and Purdue but loses to SH, Temple, OSU and Miami. We are 3-4 vs. teams with a pulse.
Sentence 3. I said right now we are a bubble team based on current results. My confidence is growing that we will get the wins necessary to get comfortable in to the tournament
Sentence 3. Adding minutes to Simpson can come directly from Paul and Caleb. Now saying that I am also have been the most critical of Simpson compared to most posters. He has potential, but he is making way too many mistakes. I am sure If i were in pike's shoes I'd probably give Simpson less minutes then he is getting. Very easy to say what Pike should do from the comfort of my house or seat at the RAC.
Sentence 4. I think i share your feeling. Our defense has been off the charts, super elite. Quite frankly I didn't see that coming. I knew we would be good defensively, but not this!
The comparison of benches between '22 and '23 is very fluid. Mag was on the bench last year and had a tough time playing.
I am furious at myself for even bringing up the NBA. I will not respond to this. I'd be happy to talk about the Devils power play or how good Connor McDavid is.
So........
1. Do you disagree with my assessment that we had nothing in the tank at the end of last year
2. If you are a Rangers fan did they not beat Tampa Bay and get to the Stanly Cup because they had nothing left in the tank?
3. Was Paul not a different person after his crazy 4 1/2 game stratech where he put the team on his back? The constant complaining to the refs and actually twice tripping to trip opponents had nothing to do with physical and mental fatigue?
You can NOT compare what a UNC player is required to do in his 34 minutes to what a Rutgers player is required to do in his 34 minutes.
I say this all the time......go watch a clip of Oregon last year on defense and watch Jacob Young. At Rutgers you do not go under screens. If you do you will be on the bench. At Oregon you just need to score. You do not need to fight through screens on the high side.
i tend to agree...at the end of the season we were no match at Purdue and we were atrocious on defense vs Iowa and our D was pretty bad vs Notre Dame including when it counted
the way RU wins isnt the way most teams win, they do it with offensive prowess. RU's way involves a lot of discipline both mental and physical. We will have games where we do not produce on one or both ends. RU is stiill threading the needle with its win, Margin of error is still small in close games
Normally I am furious when we play without effort on D. After watching that game i wasnt angry or mad at all. It just seemed to me it was obvious they were on empty. A 1/2 step slow.
We expended so much physical and mental energy to go from dead to in the tournament.
I think too many fans don't really appreciate how hard we play and the fact that there are only a handful of teams in college basketball that play as hard as we do.
1. I dont agree. I dont think we lost at the end (notre dame)because we had nothing in the tank. I think we lost that game because we are still new to this level of playing. (Chicago Bulls could not beat Detroit pistons, not because they had nothing in the tank but because it was new to them. They needed to experience and learn from it before making that next step towards being a champion)
I do believe this is the reason why we lose bunch of games at the end because we are still not accustomed to being a consistent winning team. Even as fan, at end of the games, we are thinking, "oh ****, how are we going to lose this game? this time..."
2. Sorry but NCAA and Pro Sports is different. They play different amount of games. Guys are alot older. Stamina 100% comes into a play more than NCAA
3. Paul was amazing on those games but when stretch of he could do nothing wrong came to end, he tried to just force everything instead of letting the game come to him. It was because he was tired... This was new found moment, where he got to taste his true ability of being able to really take over.
- I truly feel this time after Purdue game, we are going to see that Paul again going forward. but this time, he is more mature and will be able to let the game come to him instead of forcing even when things dont go his way.
That 5th game after the streak was at Purdue. Paul had 15 points despite Purdue deciding to put Jayden Ivey on him if I recall. I’m sure Paul’s frustration (if we want to call it that) was more about all of a sudden becoming the focus of the other team’s defense than any fatigue. It’s like expecting a No 3 receiver to not have a drop in production if he all of a sudden is matched up against the opponents best DB.
I really don't know what to think. We are so atypical where we win because of defense. We are a bad offensive team and quite frankly our ceiling isn't very high, in my opinion.
Right now We have demonstrated on the court and on paper we can beat any team on any court. I hope this can continue through March
Yes we do, but we don't have specially designed insides of the planes as the NBA teams do.
Best of Luck,
Groz
Good point. Minutes are not the same for teams that play maximum pressure D.
The biggest cause for exhaustion at the end of the season is conference tournaments, where you could conceivably play games for as many as 4 straight days, which I have honestly always thought was a weird thing to do before the NCAA Tourament, bacause it is easy to see how a team can come out of that exhausted when they aren’t trained to play like that. However we only played one game in the conference tournament and had 5 days off before that loss and 5 days before the game with ND. We were not tired, we were outcoached. ND had us chasing the ball along the perimeter which opened up lanes to cut to the basket and scored layup after layup. We never adjusted our defense to what they were doing, that is why we lost.
Well reasoned.
The only thing I can really disagree on is that we are a bubble team (right now based on current / not future resume). As flawed as the current rankings might be on Jan 4, if the season had to end today Rutgers would be safely in the Tourney. Miami and OSU have more than a pulse - they are Q1 games on the road. OSU also might even have considerations of circumstance especially with the admission of officiating mistake by the BIG. SHU was a bad loss - but a rivalry game. Temple was a bad loss - had injuries of circumstance. Even without any extenuating circumstance, RU's NET and other rankings are pretty high. RU would factor somewhere between a 7-10 seed IMO, which is not on the bubble.
No - it’s really not. What your saying doesn’t make sense. Mag and Hyatt didn’t play much last year because they were both liabilities subbing in at every position other than the 4 (Mag a liability on offense / Hyatt on defense) and the 4 position was taken by a guy who made an NBA roster. I love Ron but I do believe we’re a better defensive team without him this season. Hyatt and Mag have complemented each other quite well thus far at the 4 and neither are playing burn out minutes.
We’re in better shape at the 5 too as we still have Dean and Wolf is way better than Agee was.
Finally, at guard - 2 guys averaging 20+ minutes (Cam and Simpson) replaced one guy (Geo) in addition to us having the first guard reserve off the bench from last year back (Miller).
How is that not more depth?
Put another way Green - Hyatt and Mag don’t play together all that often now that Caleb and Paul are back. To this point though, we have been successful in collectively replacing Ron’s production via the use of 2 guys instead of one. This year we have 4 guards averaging 7.5+ ppg in 21+ minute. Last year- the 4th guard in our rotation didn’t score and only averaged 7.7 mpg (I’m not counting Jaden as he was DNP the last 10 or so games of the season).