Thoughts...on mandated 4-weeks vacation?

[chrsmneric]

big red22...totally agree with you but "When people have to work to earn something, they progress and so does our country"...I go to work everyday to feed/cloth/shelter myself...isn't that earning something? To me VACATION = FREEDOM...to justify that you have to earn your freedom is terrible.
Work to Live not Live to Work

 

[jeans15]

This is a free country. Too many mandates are bad.

2 weeks unpaid is too much.

Just honor the federal holidays and provide floaters.

This assumption that everybody wants to work or work hard needs to stop.

 

[GretnaShawn]

big red22...totally agree with you but "When people have to work to earn something, they progress and so does our country"...I go to work everyday to feed/cloth/shelter myself...isn't that earning something? To me VACATION = FREEDOM...to justify that you have to earn your freedom is terrible.
Work to Live not Live to Work

But having the government force businesses to give PTO infringes on the business owners freedom, right? Why is your idea of freedom more important than another’s freedom?

When you get a job you voluntarily give up some freedoms and you’re trading your time/skill for money. Nobody is forcing you to work for a business that doesn’t offer the vacation you desire.

 

[bmb81664]

I think it is fine to offer up to two weeks of unpaid leave if the employee wants to take it. I would love some unpaid leave. Recently my company started offering paid maternity leave. So if you have a kid they will pay you for time off. However, if I ask for some unpaid leave after working here for 23 years I can't have that.

 

[chrsmneric]

But having the government force businesses to give PTO infringes on the business owners freedom, right? Why is your idea of freedom more important than another’s freedom?
When you get a job you voluntarily give up some freedoms and you’re trading your time/skill for money. Nobody is forcing you to work for a business that doesn’t offer the vacation you desire.

Some "freedom" must be infringed or businesses would be working us 80hours a week at $1.25 an hour...

I am totally blown by the fact that anyone argues "FOR WORK"...we live in one of the, if not the most advanced country in the world and we simply cannot justify giving people more freedom in life because...oh my god the country will go broke, we cannot have that, that just sounds horrible. It's usually the baby boomers that have already been screwed for 35 years that can't possibly see their children or grandchildren live an easier, more fulfilling life.

 

[dinglefritz]

What the hell is a vacation? Some of us own the business so we never take a vacation.

 

[spinner4_rivals42045]

"When people have to work to earn something, they progress and so does our country.

When people are automatically given things, then stagnation occurs."

If I have worked hard to get where I was at, at a previous company (Use UP for an example here)... Let's say I worked there for 15 years and I got laid off. I am a very good employee, but did not fit their business needs. The only way your company is going to get me is if they match a lot of the benefits I was getting at UP.

You don't give me 4 weeks to start, you aren't getting me simple as that!

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear. Past experience at other companies should come into play. If you've worked hard at company A and then move on to company B, then yes you probably shouldn't have to start "over" again with benefits. So If Company B (in my example) can not match your needs, then great, move on to another company that will. That's what freedom is all about.

However, more likely, you lose your job with company A, company B won't match your benefits from your prior company.and no other companies will match your old salary and benefits. In this situation, that's unfortunate but you will have to take a decrease in that situation to survive.

 

[GretnaShawn]

Some "freedom" must be infringed or businesses would be working us 80hours a week at $1.25 an hour...

I am totally blown by the fact that anyone argues "FOR WORK"...we live in one of the, if not the most advanced country in the world and we simply cannot justify giving people more freedom in life because...oh my god the country will go broke, we cannot have that, that just sounds horrible. It's usually the baby boomers that have already been screwed for 35 years that can't possibly see their children or grandchildren live an easier, more fulfilling life.

You think I am advocating, 'nobody should get PTO or vacation!.' When I am actually just advocating for government not to force employers to mandate PTO. There is a huge difference. I would love more PTO, but that is between my and my employer. Not me, my employer and the government.

Think about all of the businesses that cannot afford to pay PTO or have benefit packages that compensate better in one area, like pay and don't compensate as well in others, like PTO. Or seasonal professions, do they get government mandated PTO?

Some overarching legislation about vacation times would have repercussions in tons of industries and would hurt the small businesses disproportionately. And all this because you cannot negotiate a better compensation package?

 

[big red23]

Some "freedom" must be infringed or businesses would be working us 80hours a week at $1.25 an hour...

I am totally blown by the fact that anyone argues "FOR WORK"...we live in one of the, if not the most advanced country in the world and we simply cannot justify giving people more freedom in life because...oh my god the country will go broke, we cannot have that, that just sounds horrible. It's usually the baby boomers that have already been screwed for 35 years that can't possibly see their children or grandchildren live an easier, more fulfilling life.

Those that argue for work are the Small Business owners, that can't give what bigger companies can. They run manual labor jobs that if someone doesn't show up means more work for them. They don't want to be doing the labor part, they are working too hard getting the customers at the bars and golf courses. Remember they worked hard to start that business, their workers that work hard for them can be replaced with anyone else that needs cash.

 

[cubsker_rivals142943]

Some "freedom" must be infringed or businesses would be working us 80hours a week at $1.25 an hour...

.

again, not even close to being true.

 

[saluno22]

Many people don't even use the little vacation time they get, because they're afraid of losing their jobs.

There are some places of employment who have a "take leave as you need it" approach. From the business side, this limits their liabilities in the event they were purchased or if they terminate an employee. From the employee side, this can be a psychological mess where they don't ever take leave for fear of looking bad compared to their coworkers.

 

[chrsmneric]

Sorry, Shawn I took you wrong. You've swayed me to rethink infringement and really without a minimum wage the market would control itself, so in the same sense mandated vacation really isn't the fix...but the market isn't working in our favor right now... So I think I succeeded in bringing attention to this topic with strong opinions from very different view points and basically that's all I was shooting for...not an argument but a reach for a solution. As a team can we figure out what would help us "free up" our lives so to speak? Sorry to turn this into an argument...I'm in bad headspace today...would you guess it's due to the job?

I don't doubt that each and every one of us needs/wants more time away from work...how do we get there?

 

[big red23]

chrsmneric (or anyone that hasn't listened to it), do yourself a favor and listen to this podcast

Episode 647: Hard Work Is Irrelevant : Planet Money

It goes behind the scenes of Netflix, and how they don't reward anyone for coming in early or staying late ect... it is mind blowing to say the least, but it is relevant and is exactly what businesses are going to turn into.

 

[GretnaShawn]

Sorry, Shawn I took you wrong. You've swayed me to rethink infringement and really without a minimum wage the market would control itself, so in the same sense mandated vacation really isn't the fix...but the market isn't working in our favor right now... So I think I succeeded in bringing attention to this topic with strong opinions from very different view points and basically that's all I was shooting for...not an argument but a reach for a solution. As a team can we figure out what would help us "free up" our lives so to speak? Sorry to turn this into an argument...I'm in bad headspace today...would you guess it's due to the job?

I don't doubt that each and every one of us needs/wants more time away from work...how do we get there?

If you're having a hard time with work/life balance then I would look at your priorities and at your current job. If you want more time off, then find a career that fulfills that. That may come with a trade off of income/lifestyle. But that is where reevaluating your priorities comes in.

I don't know what you do or what your skills are but there is a lot of job opportunities out there right now. Unemployment is low and the economy is in pretty decent shape.

 

[saluno22]

Some overarching legislation about vacation times would have repercussions in tons of industries and would hurt the small businesses disproportionately. And all this because you cannot negotiate a better compensation package?

I don't disagree with this sentiment, but I think one thing that is overlooked making this kind of statement is the shift in the union/collective bargaining environment.

I realize I am opening a tangential can of worms (and potentially spawning a new point of contention in this thread). There are positives and negatives to collective bargaining, and the landscape has changed dramatically the last few decades.

 

[chrsmneric]

If you're having a hard time with work/life balance then I would look at your priorities and at your current job. If you want more time off, then find a career that fulfills that. That may come with a trade off of income/lifestyle. But that is where reevaluating your priorities comes in.

I don't know what you do or what your skills are but there is a lot of job opportunities out there right now. Unemployment is low and the economy is in pretty decent shape.

Honestly, my only complaint with the job market is vacation... unfortunately I've had to jump ship on the last several jobs that did offer amazing vacation packages because the work atmosphere was extremely hazardous...criminal really for anyone to work in. So I've pursued the big benefits and vacation packages with bitter success... But here's to keeping on!

 

[GretnaShawn]

I don't disagree with this sentiment, but I think one thing that is overlooked making this kind of statement is the shift in the union/collective bargaining environment.

I realize I am opening a tangential can of worms (and potentially spawning a new point of contention in this thread). There are positives and negatives to collective bargaining, and the landscape has changed dramatically the last few decades.

Collectively bargaining is one thing. But when you get hired, an annual review, etc, you have a chance to negotiate or renegotiate your compensation package (this is a broad brush statement, it obviously doesn't apply to every scenario). If you've been successful and an asset to the company you should be able to negotiate a raise or more time off or a more flexible work schedule (again, this won't work for certain career paths, usually ones where a union is involved or you work for the government).

 

[big red23]

Honestly, my only complaint with the job market is vacation... unfortunately I've had to jump ship on the last several jobs that did offer amazing vacation packages because the work atmosphere was extremely hazardous...criminal really for anyone to work in. So I've pursued the big benefits and vacation packages with bitter success... But here's to keeping on!

Look into teaching :Cool:

 

[big red23]

big red22...totally agree with you but "When people have to work to earn something, they progress and so does our country"...I go to work everyday to feed/cloth/shelter myself...isn't that earning something? To me VACATION = FREEDOM...to justify that you have to earn your freedom is terrible.
Work to Live not Live to Work

chrsmneric... you do realize the part you disagreed with was the part that was me quoting the post I was responding to right?

 

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

I heard that Japan is giving non smokers an extra 6 days of vacation a year.

Seems they did a study that smokers use 15 min daily on their smoke breaks. Heck, I've seen people waste a lot more than that in a day.

 

[chrsmneric]

chrsmneric... you do realize the part you disagreed with was the part that was me quoting the post I was responding to right?

Ahhh! I follow now

 

[GretnaShawn]

I heard that Japan is giving non smokers an extra 6 days of vacation a year.

Seems they did a study that smokers use 15 min daily on their smoke breaks. Heck, I've seen people waste a lot more than that in a day.

A Japanese company did decide to do that. Which is great. But it wasn't mandated by the government. (I only say the government thing due to the original topic, not due to an implication)

 

[SoDakHawk]

Some "freedom" must be infringed or businesses would be working us 80hours a week at $1.25 an hour...

I am totally blown by the fact that anyone argues "FOR WORK"...we live in one of the, if not the most advanced country in the world and we simply cannot justify giving people more freedom in life because...oh my god the country will go broke, we cannot have that, that just sounds horrible. It's usually the baby boomers that have already been screwed for 35 years that can't possibly see their children or grandchildren live an easier, more fulfilling life.

What? The Boomers have been screwed? How do you figure that? The Boomers have been the beneficiaries of an awful lot. It is the generation that controls the majority of wealth in this country.

The generations that are going to get screwed are the Gen Xers and the Millenials. Massive debt, stagnant wages, social security system headed for collapse, health care system that is unaffordable, unfunded pension systems poised to collapse. They are even talking about nerfing our 401ks and taxing the crap out of them. If you are under 45 in this country you are completely F'd. The only way we are going to be able to bail ourselves out of this financial mess the Boomer politicians have gotten us in are massive cuts to entitlement spending and massive cuts to defense spending and a contraction of our military. We simply can't afford what we spend anymore.

 

[TwinsRRUs_rivals79748]

I always look at it this way....If I'm working lots of hours (over 50-60) and have little PTO that is fine....but I better be making nice money (six figures).

I left a retail management job after 10 years where I worked 50-60 hours a week with 4 weeks PTO and made $55k a year.

Now I farm and work 60-110 hours a week making $13 an hour (all hours, no OT) with no PTO and make <$45k (from wages only)

6 figures would be nice...

So would even one or two weeks of PTO

 

[chrsmneric]

What? The Boomers have been screwed? How do you figure that? The Boomers have been the beneficiaries of an awful lot. It is the generation that controls the majority of wealth in this country.

The generations that are going to get screwed are the Gen Xers and the Millenials. Massive debt, stagnant wages, social security system headed for collapse, health care system that is unaffordable, unfunded pension systems poised to collapse. They are even talking about nerfing our 401ks and taxing the crap out of them. If you are under 45 in this country you are completely F'd. The only way we are going to be able to bail ourselves out of this financial mess the Boomer politicians have gotten us in are massive cuts to entitlement spending and massive cuts to defense spending and a contraction of our military. We simply can't afford what we spend anymore.

Well put, I meant they "thought" they'd been screwed

 

[bmb81664]

What? The Boomers have been screwed? How do you figure that? The Boomers have been the beneficiaries of an awful lot. It is the generation that controls the majority of wealth in this country.

The generations that are going to get screwed are the Gen Xers and the Millenials. Massive debt, stagnant wages, social security system headed for collapse, health care system that is unaffordable, unfunded pension systems poised to collapse. They are even talking about nerfing our 401ks and taxing the crap out of them. If you are under 45 in this country you are completely F'd. The only way we are going to be able to bail ourselves out of this financial mess the Boomer politicians have gotten us in are massive cuts to entitlement spending and massive cuts to defense spending and a contraction of our military. We simply can't afford what we spend anymore.

I am a 53 year old and back in my 20's I thought the generations before me really screwed us as well. Now I realize how much easier my life was compared to my parents and grandparents. You may feel the same way someday.

 

[DudznSudz]

It isn’t the governments role to force businesses to give PTO or paid maternity or paternity leave.

Yeah, it is, actually.

 

[coach00036]

Look into teaching :Cool:

He said he wanted to get out of an extremely hazardous work atmosphere, not into one. Laughing

 

[Huskercigar]

Many people don't even use the little vacation time they get, because they're afraid of losing their jobs.

This is not true. There is no use it or lose it with vacation. If it goes unused they have to pay you. Most companies no longer allow carry over and if they do its a minimum.

 

[Huskercigar]

Yeah, it is, actually.

Not to private business. Unless you want a socialist environment. Now they can mandate giving family time off without being discriminated about but they shouldn't force any business to pay an employee that doesn't work.

 

[GeorgeFlippin]

These ladies like to vacation:

 

[GretnaShawn]

Yeah, it is, actually.

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Huskercigar]

Here is the deal........many, many business's especially small business are labor intensive. To make the money you have to have employee's. If they mandated 4 weeks of vacation/PTO that means you need to hire someone to fill that 4 weeks. That is an 7% labor cost to his business and for those companies who are labor heavy in costs how do you come up with an additional 5%? Charge more for your product? Yea right. It sounds good if you get the 4 weeks and don't really see the cost.

Maybe go this route. Go ahead and mandate it and add a 4% national sales tax to everything and reimburse that back to the business's. You think people want to pay a 11-13% sales tax on everything. There would be a revolt.....but at least everyone would see the result of their mandates on business's.

 

[HuskerO58]

No business owner is going to do it "just because" that's the point

Yes they do. I got it with the company I worked for.

I have 3 employees and I offer no benefits package in terms of paid leave whether it be sick, vacation or paternity for my those employees, but I give paid leave for my good employees "just because" if they need it.

 

[dand84]

What a horrible idea. Why would I want less vacation than I already have and some of it unpaid? Profoundly stupid. If you work some sh— job, might I kindly suggest you reach around and firmly grab 2 handfuls of a— cheek, pull yourself up and get a job you like and that pays well and gives you benefits you like?

 

[HuskerO58]

Thanks for the good laugh!!! #brainwashed

Which part did he have wrong?

 

[GretnaShawn]

Which part did he have wrong?

I asked the same thing....

 

[HuskerO58]

or businesses would be working us 80hours a week at $1.25 an hour...

If this were true then why isn't everyone making minimum wage only ($9 per hour) in Nebraska?

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

I think the key here is mandating that it must be used. My company could offer me 2000 hours a year of PTO and it wouldn't matter because taki g more than a day off here and there means I fall so far behind it isn't worth it

 

[Harry Caray]

This is not true. There is no use it or lose it with vacation. If it goes unused they have to pay you. Most companies no longer allow carry over and if they do its a minimum.

I know that. But most American workers still don't use their vacation time, out of fear of job security or falling behind:

The sad reason half of Americans don’t take all their paid vacation